Was actually a strategy used by the Koreans (in my case, us) to beat the oppressive Chinese. The Battle of Salsu (Salsu meaning literally, "Killing water") is ranked second highest in Casualties resulting from War in Wikipedia. Korean cavalry fake a retreat into Korean territory where the Korean general dams the river and outmaneouvers the enemy into an overwhelmingly superior battleground utilizing the forces of nature. Considering I'm born from an "edge" nation that has always been fiercely devoted to independence (perhaps more so than Ireland) this just bothered me a lot that the "Center nation" got all the credit without so much as a mention.
Posted by kassyopeia (Member # 12110) on :
quote:[It] bothered me a lot that the "Center nation" got all the credit
Interesting that that's your reaction. I'd place the credit with the individual or the organization that trained him. His nation didn't contribute much - rather, it was lucky to have him.
Posted by Snake (Member # 12134) on :
Of course, Han Tzu had the best training available, and etc. But it irked me nonetheless that a Chinese General (albeit fictional) was using a tactic that had been used by Koreans to defeat an oppressor (China). The reason for this is China has historically been the oppressor, invading Korea and subjucating Korea countless times (not to mention funding North Korea's invasion a little more than a half century ago) Virlomi's tactics were compared to the Spartan defence at Thermopylae, her defeat to Varus at the Teutoburger Vald. Bean is given no precedent, but he's Bean, the smartest being ever. It surprises no one that he thinks up strategies that are wholly original in any given situation (even against the buggers, albeit unconsciously) Han Tzu's strategy was written like it was original. Perhaps the author was unaware, or he didn't have a lot of interest in Korea at the time or to date. Perhaps thats why no Koreans are mentioned as Battle Schoolers.
Posted by kassyopeia (Member # 12110) on :
quote:But it irked me nonetheless that a Chinese General (albeit fictional) was using a tactic that had been used by Koreans to defeat an oppressor (China).
That's why I said "interesting". You could have chosen (for lack of a better word) to feel smug about it. About Korea having taught China such a powerful lesson that their most brilliant general chooses to emulate it, or about knowing which battles Hot Soup studied at Battle School, when most readers and maybe even the author don't.
This isn't intended as a criticism of your point of view, merely as a comment on it.
quote:Perhaps thats why no Koreans are mentioned as Battle Schoolers.
Welllll, there are, what, maybe twenty-five nationalities mentioned? Which means ten times that many are not.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
It's possible that, in the Enderverse, China has already absorbed both Koreas.
Posted by kassyopeia (Member # 12110) on :
Good point. Though it should have been mentioned here, if that were the case, no?
quote:So when the Caliph drew the new map, the province of Inner Mongolia was given to the nation of Mongolia, and Manchuria and Taiwan were given their independence.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Unless he decided to keep Korea just to tick off the Koreans. You never know. Posted by Snake (Member # 12134) on :
Oh, we already feel smug about us having beat the gigantic nation of China. We were the Spartans that won. I just feel cheated from acknowledgement Just like how deep inside I know there are a whole slew of nations that have reared a very sharp generation in present day, but have no mention at all in the book, both cases are equally impossible, and both have never felt a wound. There is but one mention of Korea, and it's that Ender "even knows how to speak Korean." Either that implies that Korean is such a wierd and otherworldly language spoken by so few, (like some long lost ancestral form of Quecha) or that Korean is just really hard to learn. Hopefully it was written with connotations in the latter.
As to TomDavidson's comment, I believe that the author has a lot of interest in "edge nations" or nations that are in proximity to a huge "center nation" that in order to contrast, they develop an entirely new culture. Like Japan. And although we share a lot with China (unlike Japan) I doubt that Ender would take the time to learn Korean if by the time he's started planet hopping to Speak, Korea has been assimilated, thereby eliminating the possibility of a fully Korean, or at least somewhat Korean, colony. But alas, more impossible hopes. Infinite mayhap.
Posted by Duke Leto (Member # 12116) on :
You know, I assumed it was based on Chiang Kai-shek blowing up the dams on the Yellow River to slow down the advancing Japanese. In which case it'd be a 2nd hand rip off.
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
What is this Korea of which you speak? Just kidding Snake.
Thanks for sharing this, I'm going to have go read about the battle of Salsu now.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
tbf historical maps of China holding korea is just them holding a small bit of land south of the Yalu.
Also it was the Russians who funded the North korean invasion of south Korea, all those T-34's, Yak aircraft, and other russian arms did not come from China as China could neither produce those at the time and the Russians themselves gave China pitifully little aid during the War of Liberation.
The Chinese only intervened when the Korean's asked them too and only when the Russians agreed to give additional supplies to the Chines and provide air support as pitifully little as it was.
Posted by Snake (Member # 12134) on :
Historically the Chinese actually invaded and took a large part of the territory north of Korea (North of North Korea(...)) However, maps will differ from which source you're using, as well as which history you read. (Japanese history books will deny having mistreated Korea at all) The Chinese also gave the go-ahead for the Korean war, and also supplied personnel for the conflict, and have always been more involved with North Korea despite the fact that both Russia and China aided and abetted N. Korea. It was China that N. Korea turned to for "permission" to start the war and China that granted it. Even recently, China is the most recent of N.Korea's "ambiguous supporters" until they went and did those tests, which brought about China's rapid turnaround in position (coincidentally in time with their growing relations with the U.S.)
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