what a waste of time. It just annoys me when people trash it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Well, it's their opinion. My opinion over the series has changed.
Posted by badman (Member # 11886) on :
Sometimes there are hard facts to deal with. like what is a plot hole and what isn't. I felt I had to defend the book I love because the criticism was unjust. in retrospect, you can never change anyone's mind on such matters so why bother.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Here's what you do to make yourself feel better. Head over to amazon.com and look up EG. It has over 2600 reader reviews, over 2100 of which are 5-stars, and another 300 are 4-stars. It has more 5-star reviews than "Dune", "1984", "The Lord of the Rings", or any of Asimov's "Foundation" novels. Also, if you look up the bestsellers in sci-fi at any given time EG is usually in the top 30. That's out of every science fiction book that amazon carries updated hourly.
So don't let a few haters get you down.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Yeah... Plus you could always just read the book instead of arguing about it. i think that reading Ender in Exile just totally changed my opinion of Ender's Game including rereading the series some time ago and having certain things jump out at me and annoy me so MUCH.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Here's what you do to make yourself feel better. Head over to amazon.com and look up EG. It has over 2600 reader reviews, over 2100 of which are 5-stars, and another 300 are 4-stars. It has more 5-star reviews than "Dune", "1984", "The Lord of the Rings", or any of Asimov's "Foundation" novels. Also, if you look up the bestsellers in sci-fi at any given time EG is usually in the top 30. That's out of every science fiction book that amazon carries updated hourly.
So don't let a few haters get you down.
Well said. On Goodreads it has 72,465 ratings and 6,108 reviews. 80% are 4 or 5 stars.
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
What forums, out of curiosity? I'd be interested to know if dislike of the book actually stems from the book or from something like dislike of OSC political opinions.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Amazon reviews are actually a pretty good way to judge a book which has an at-all-followed writer. Just check what the customers say after a good chunk of months after the book release.
Mostly four and five stars? It's a good book. Mostly one star despite being a big-name author? It's a bad book.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Mostly four and five stars? It's a good book.
Or the author is very good at heckling readers who try to give lower ratings. Amazon is well-known for this sort of behavior among authors, and for doing nothing to stop it (and in fact, several things which encourage it).
Posted by badman (Member # 11886) on :
it was the gamefaqs books and literature board, I post under the name Bongorider there. I think the topic has about 100 posts now, I gave up eventually as one guy just continuosly didn't get my points, he was either stupid, trolling, or just unwilling to change his mind.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
...Or he had a valid opinion, though different from yours.
Why can't it just be your favorite book and not a religion?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Mostly four and five stars? It's a good book.
Or the author is very good at heckling readers who try to give lower ratings. Amazon is well-known for this sort of behavior among authors, and for doing nothing to stop it (and in fact, several things which encourage it).
it doesn't seem to be the case here, especially considering Empire got thrashed.
Posted by badman (Member # 11886) on :
"..Or he had a valid opinion, though different from yours.
Why can't it just be your favorite book and not a religion?"
not every argument is a difference of opinion. If someone says "I didn't like this part of the book because ABC", then ok. But if they say "This part of the book made no sense because of ABC", that's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
That's true. I get annoyed when people point out "plot holes" in a book, tv show, or movie which are actually just their own poor understanding of the story.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Mostly four and five stars? It's a good book.
Or the author is very good at heckling readers who try to give lower ratings. Amazon is well-known for this sort of behavior among authors, and for doing nothing to stop it (and in fact, several things which encourage it).
it doesn't seem to be the case here, especially considering Empire got thrashed.
I was not commenting on this specific case, but on the general statement. Hey, I gave Ender's Game 4.5 stars on Goodreads (and the friend who gifted me with the book 20 years ago likes to heckle me for not having given it 5)!
But in general, I don't trust Amazon ratings, especially in certain genres and on small-press books.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: ...in general, I don't trust Amazon ratings, especially in certain genres and on small-press books.
I have to agree, on both. There are some books with nothing but 5 star ratings that are laughably bad, and those 2 categories seem to include a large number of them.
Posted by Clumpy (Member # 8122) on :
I think Ender's Game gets trashed for two main reasons: OSC's statements on homosexuality and the straightforward nature of the book.
I'm less inclined to dislike OSC for his statements on homosexuality than his apparent disbelief in civil liberties and support for Bush's inhuman actions under the guise of the "war on terror," but whatever. I wouldn't trash his book because of it. Ender's Game is highly readable and has more subtlety than your average flavor of the summer thriller. There may be some legitimate claims against the series but I still really enjoy it. And that's pretty unique - I can count on one hand the things I enjoyed in middle school that I still like today (and no, that's not some veiled visual pun).
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I... am a bit frustrated by Ender's Game as OSC has LUCASED his own books. I read that series several times and as I said up there there were some things that jumped out at me and annoyed and frustrated me, but not as much as in the Shadow Series, which was mostly too much lecturing and babies. Ender's Game is quite classic, but, It kind of disturbs me on several levels after reading it several times.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
"(and no, that's not some veiled visual pun)."
Well, it is now.
Posted by sinflower (Member # 12228) on :
Synesthesia, why exactly does Ender's Game disturb you? Could you provide some examples of things that you've noticed after rereading that particularly bother you? I'm quite curious now.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I... am a bit frustrated by...
Considering how many of your posts start with this, Syn, you must be the most frustrated person on the planet. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by sinflower: Synesthesia, why exactly does Ender's Game disturb you? Could you provide some examples of things that you've noticed after rereading that particularly bother you? I'm quite curious now.
Several things, but it's been over a year since I've reread it. Basically those folks torment and fail to protect children in order to destroy an enemy that wasn't actually a threat. but they are still considered the good guys despite all of that. There's several other things that annoy me, such as in the last book in the Ender series Valentine said something to Novinha that I never noticed in the several times I read that book. It was messed up. A woman gets abused by that man, traumatizes the kids who are all messed up in their own way and Valentine said it was GOOD that she had that man? Good for the kids to see their mother being abused? URG! I can't stand that.
I need to be distracted often with music. Don't even get me started on the Bean series.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
My mental image of you, Syn, is of a person who always has her headphones on, and, at home, keeps glancing to her bookshelf, lined with Card novels, grimacing with stomach pain, and having to force herself to look away at her pupae.
I'm pretty sure I'm getting a skewed view.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:OSC has LUCASED his own books
I've had this very thought on the tip of my tongue since I read the first half of Shadow of the Hegemon, but I couldn't put it into words. Thanks for doing that.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: My mental image of you, Syn, is of a person who always has her headphones on, and, at home, keeps glancing to her bookshelf, lined with Card novels, grimacing with stomach pain, and having to force herself to look away at her pupae.
I'm pretty sure I'm getting a skewed view.
Well, not exactly since my shelf is over there and I really should have more books on it instead of in weird places, but I do have a giant silk moth pupae over here that is nice to hold because it flutters in there. I hope I didn't smash the cecropia one in the fridge! I've been wanting one for so long and then I went and put chicken breasts on top of the poor thing! AUGH! Plus it's probably too cold to move around to let me know if it's alive. Then there's the pre-pupating caterpillars in my room that I put in dirt. One of them got out of the cup I had it in and ended up in a drawer then I had to put it in dirt with the other one. I really want a bunch of pupa this year. I do tend to have my earcanal things on outside on the train, but not when I'm walking, but I got to block out all of those irritating noises ><. At least my stomach has been hurting less, so that is nice.
Thanks Destineer.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Destineer:
quote:OSC has LUCASED his own books
I've had this very thought on the tip of my tongue since I read the first half of Shadow of the Hegemon, but I couldn't put it into words. Thanks for doing that.
You know, when I heard that OSC was writing Ender's Shadow, I just assumed that's what was happening, and didn't read it for a long time.
When I finally did, though, I really enjoyed it (along with the rest of the Shadow books).
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I quite enjoyed Ender's Shadow. I've always been a sucker for different points of view books, going back to The True Story of the 3 Little Pigs.
I even enjoyed Shadow of the Hedgemon. It really didn't feel like a Lucas prequel to me.
Shadow Puppets started losing me though, and Shawdow of the Giant just felt rushed in my mind. I never felt that the whole saga could be told in just one book, but I wonder if it would have turned out better had there been more time between books.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Syn, you know they weren't a threat, but they don't. Or didn't.
It doesn't matter WHY the Queen thought killing human "drones" was ok, as humans we saw human life ending, for no reason, so we defended ourselves.
I think the book is suppose to make you uncomfortable because of the treatment of those kids, so in that way it is does a good job. Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I agree with Kwea... I thought rather a main point of Ender's Game was to emphasize the price of war and be disturbing by applying it to kids.
I just re-read Ender's Shadow(literally finished about 30 seconds before typing this) and I find it a terrific book. The moments when
(spoilers) . . . . Bean whispers David's Lament to the men he is sending to their deaths and then the masterful payoff when Julian Delphinki I delivers the flip side scripture quote and recites the Return of the Prodigal over Bean . . . (/spoilers)
were very powerful bits.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Loved Ender's Shadow Liked Hegemon Eh @ Shadow Puppets, mostly because of Petra,
Also, is (SPOILERS)
--------------------------
Hot soup really dead?
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
umber, did you read Giant?
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
No.
Posted by themooncalf (Member # 12277) on :
quote: Basically those folks torment and fail to protect children in order to destroy an enemy that wasn't actually a threat. but they are still considered the good guys despite all of that.
Er, no... The entire rest of the series proves that it was a horrible mistake. That is why Ender became the Speaker for the Dead, so that humans would never do such a thing again. That aside, the Buggers did invade first. They had no way of communicating with the humans, so they couldn't tell them they had made a mistake and would leave them alone. The humans figured that it was only a matter of time before they would be attacked again and destroyed. When your entire species is faced with imminent extinction, the alternative of sending children off to war doesn't seem like a high price to pay.
Then the rest of the series is spent lambasting the people who made the decision to do that. So I would not agree with your assessment that they're considered the "good guys". Even Ender becomes a hated figure on Earth.
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