This is topic Young Ladies and Grown Men. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
 
If a woman/girl is 18 years old, men of all ages are then legal to date her.

I'm 31 and I find myself extremely attracted to girls 18-26, some people may say this is wrong, or immoral, or what not and ever, but I see it as perfectly normal for a red blooded American male.

:)Don't you?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
That information does not surprise me at all.
 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
Considering my father is 13 years older than my mother, I really don't think I can say anything against you.

Nothing like nubile girls, eh Thor?
 

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Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
 
I've always been naturally attracted to women of the same age. But I'm only 20, so in ten years I may still be attracted to 20 year old women. I wouldn't be surprised.
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 794) on :
 
I fail to see what point you're making. Other than you like girls younger than yourself. A thirteen year age gap wooohh!!! Maybe its the life i lead and the people i know but i don't find this wrong, immoral or surprising.
 

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Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
 
I was 31 when my wife was 26...
 

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Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
 
Oddly, though, I tend to prefer older women, in terms of looks...
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Man, where's Irami when you need him? *looks around*
 

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Posted by Head Ditch Digger (Member # 5085) on :
 
What does age matter? older men younger women or vice-versa, it doesn't matter as long as they are consenting adults. I know many a successful relationship where there is an age difference. My wife grew up with a couple where the wife was 10 years older than the husband.

So, to Thor I say, if they will have anything to do with you, have fun.
 

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Posted by Taygeta (Member # 5337) on :
 
Last summer I met a couple where the wife was 35 and the husband was 82. Nothing *wrong* with it, exactly, but it's just weird.
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
It may be out of line, but I would guess that part of Thor's attraction to the younger set is their lower expectations from a dating partner.

I mean, a nice looking single woman in her late 20's early 30's is probably looking for a guy with, oh, I don't know... A JOB!



Still luv ya buddy, but you do crack me up.
 

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Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
 
My grandfather turned 80 this year. My step-grandmother just turned 48.
 

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Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
Slash, you are talking about Thor, right? *whimper*
 

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Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
 

quote:

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Nothing like nubile girls, eh Thor?

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Well, I've put a little too much thought into this subject and it is a major plot line of the current screenplay I'm writing.

My Younger Women Theories

#1 - The Flower in Full Bloom - It could be argued that a girl/woman is at here peak attractiveness around 18-26. This doesn't hurt.

#2 - The Innocence Factor - I'm attracted to a girl/woman who hasn't had her asskicked by the cold cruel world and has a diamond hard sheen of Jaded. Her more innocent and child like dreams are more likely to still be alive.

#3 - The Ex-Boyfriend Factor - It is my theory that a lot of girls who are 27+ have probably had at least one too many bad boyfriends and will see future relationships through a rose tinted history lense.

#4- The Jedi Master/Apprentice Factor - I don't know, the idea of training and protecting a lover is pretty sexy to me.

So there are 4 great reasons why I find my self all dreamy for younger women, though it should be noted that the youngest I've ever dated under my age is 3 year.

To paraphrase, that's what I love about these college girls, I get older and they stay the same age.
 

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Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
Nothing wrong there Thor. Get 'em while their young! Ya-Hoo!
 

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Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
You dated a 3-year-old? Ewww....
 

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Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
 

quote:

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It may be out of line, but I would guess that part of Thor's attraction to the younger set is their lower expectations from a dating partner.

I mean, a nice looking single woman in her late 20's early 30's is probably looking for a guy with, oh, I don't know... A JOB!

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Oh, slashy pooh, you crack up me, and jab me at the same time. I wouldn't say that women in late 20's to early 30's are looking for a guy with a Job, they are looking for a guy with a GOOD job.

Right now, being the King of America is worse than being a septic tank cleaner, and it doesn't even pay shit, but I have faith.

You really think I'm going to let all of this talent go to waste???

Your point brings me back to another reason I'm interested in younger women.

#5 - The Marriage Fantasy - I believed in it for 31 years. Kiss that goodbye. It's probably not in the cards for me.

<T>

..and slashy pooh, I have no expectations of even dating anyone for the next two years. Sure. I'll kiss a few girls, but a brother without a job ain't gonna date no one.

[ July 29, 2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: The Silverblue Sun ]
 

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Posted by Maethoriell (Member # 3805) on :
 
You guys make me seem like I'm a baby...
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I just wrote a ripping post, then I remembered that Peter Pan is a tragedy.

A real man considers the woman first, and would never do anything to hurt her. Just keep that in mind.
 

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Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
 

quote:

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just wrote a ripping post, then I remembered that Peter Pan is a tragedy.

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quote:

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O-o-ohh.... so Cinderella is a tragedy for you, because of the high expectations it creates in the minds of women. It's good for Cinderella, though.

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quote:

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For whatever reason, it came from us and resonates within us.

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I'm sure if someone wrote a modern tale about the geeky, dorky kid who is held down by bullies and the trappings of society, only break out and be rewarded for being a good guy with inherit a kingdom and a harem of beautiful women, it would resonate amongst men.

I realize the story of Cinderella isn't a tragedy, but I think it's effects on girls can be tragic.
 

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Posted by strawberrygirl (Member # 5030) on :
 
Cinderella will become a tragedy once she realizes that her husband (Prince Charming) is married to two other women and murders him in his sleep.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
No, that's justice.
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I don't think women hit their stride until 25 and don't peak until forty. Before then, they don't even look fully grown. An 18 year-old girl of sensible habits is going to make an even more attractive 33 year old woman. All of those sins that prematurely age women: booze, cigarettes, and cheese cake, if abstained from or moderated to an acceptable proportion, can yield glowing 35 year old women with healthy skin and robust sexual appetites, while still decently sized in the beam. When you combine those lower virtues with true Virtue of the light of knowledge that comes along with fifteen more years of good books and travel, the product is divine.

There is a saying, "I like a man with a future and a woman with a past." While I think that a woman should have both a past and a future, I appreciate in the author's sentiment.

[ July 30, 2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
I totally agree, Irami.

There is no beauty like beauty in a mature woman. Her looks will be softened and added to by comfort with herself and knowledge of the world.

Some 18 year olds are attractive, but generally they are lacking the experience to be truly beautiful.

Men who never outgrow loving girls of this age are men who never grew up, and never want to. Hence, the tragedy of Peter Pan.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
"Men who never outgrow loving girls of this age are men who never grew up, and never want to. Hence, the tragedy of Peter Pan."

True, because eventually, their age will be too great to hold any attraction at all for young women. They will die sad and lonely. Yuck.

I'm glad my husband still loves my fat, almost forty body with the sagging boobs and aches in both knees and feet. It's because he loves ME, no matter what age I am.

Liz
 

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Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
 
I'm mostly with Irami and Slash, but I have been lucky to find some more mature younger women. I've been told I'm 25 going on 40, and the wide-eyed and innocent just don't do it for me anymore.

Kinda like cotton candy... really sweet, but really nothing to it.

I used to go with the "half your age plus 7, rounded up" rule... which would put me at 20 for my lower limit. Sounds almost right, but at this point, 22 is looking like the lower bound. I haven't seemed to find an upper bound as yet, but I'd probably estimate between 30-35.

All I have to say, Thor, is please don't ever take a job in a high school. The 14 year olds look 18, and the 18 year olds look 24. It's gotten to the point that I'm tempted to card every girl I meet... or at least make sure they can talk convincingly about cartoon shows of the early 80’s.
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
I'm pretty much completely indifferent to age altogether. The qualities that I find attractive in a person are not those that seem to change much over the years. I don't know what to call it except maybe an inner light. The light of the person, of who they are. I can see it shining through at any age and someone with a clear true light is attractive to me.... either as a friend, or if a single guy, as a guy. (Well, non-single guys can also be attractive to me as guys, but only in a hands off way like in an art museum. ) I realize, though, that most of the world does not share my age indifference.

I have close friends of all ages, from babies/toddlers (though they keep growing up so fast) to elderly. I don't see them as being different sorts of people by ages. They're all people. I don't see that their feelings or responses are much different from each other based on age. It's more based on who they are. And people I've known from early childhood through maturity are each the same person now that they were then. Who they were didn't really change at all, just their level of sophistication. It's the same light inside. The same person.

I've seen marriages work between people with vastly different ages. I would not mind marrying someone of a vastly different age from me, provided he was the right person.

I feel a vague objection to Thor's statement based on what seems like a lack of seriousness, perhaps. I think if what he means is he wants to date a different young woman every few years, turning the old one in for a new model, for the rest of his life, then I think that's a shame. I think he's going to miss the most important and coolest most fun stuff that way.

I do want to say that a girl who has sense is going to have her own perfectly wonderful job, and not look at guys as economic units but as people. It's been my experience that scads of beautiful, well educated, intelligent, interesting professional women are interested in dating guys based on their hearts and spirits, and are not looking for economic generators. I think to look at a guy based on his money or potential for making money is totally yucky. What are you going to do if he loses it? Becomes disabled and can't work? Are you going to quit loving him then?

It's funny, Thor, but I had a weird dream once that you would be the type to love a series of young girls and discard them one by one. My first hatrack dream. <laughs> Write me if you're interested in hearing my dream.

[ July 30, 2003, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
 

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Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
 
The Cinderella story and its like are a major cause of dissillusionment, I think. I went to school with a LOT of girls whose goal was to meet a perfect guy and get married.

But then What? I mean it. If that's the POINT then you should just be shot and stuffed on your wedding day.

Ron, my beloved, recently told me I look different than when I was younger. Now, I used to be really thin and all that, so I almost immediately thought about aging. But he said I looked more exotic and confident. The exotic comes from the semi-epicanthic folds I have becoming more obvious as my eyelids loosen with age. I look more Asian now than I ever did, and people often mistake me for a lightish-skinned Middle Eastern woman. * shrug*

But the confidence tghing is true. Only recently have I learned to not be timid about things. I'm also finding that I am quite good at not wasting my time or emotional energy on idiots, worrying what people I don't like think about me. LOL

My mom was always gorgeous, but hers grew with age as well. I remember thinking at my wedding reception that she was the most beautiful person in the room, and the life of the party.

But now I've learned how to cut loose and have fun on my own
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I'm sending Homeland Security after you, Olivia. We know who are you now.

*eyes narrow*
 

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Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
 
Now I'm wondering if that has anything to do with that guy in Florida telling me, "Don't get caught."

I will go to my grave thinking "wha?" whenever I remember that.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Remember when that old dude accosted me at the rest area last year? o_O
 

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Posted by filetted (Member # 5048) on :
 
A chinese friend once told me there was an age-based equation for picking the optimal ages for two people in a successful couple. I don't remember exactly what it was.
 

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Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
My wife is making me post her theory that an older man mearly looks for a younger mate due to instinct, she being more able to reproduce at a younger age.

I myself appreciate a nice fine--OOOWWW!!!
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
*pat pat*
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
I've been attracted to a few considerably older men in my time, but interestingly, it was because they treated me like a mature adult that I found them so interesting.

I don't think it's so much a matter of age, but of maturity. I don't seem to fare well with immature males because I can't stand being around them for more than a few days - the novelty wears off.

Ah, but when you meet that man who is interested not so much in you in a pair of Calvin Kleins as you in a philosophical debate, that's the really attractive part.

Sigh. Maybe I'm just living in my own fantasy world.
 

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Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
 
Annie,

I'm much more interested in a girl in a philosophical debate than a girl in the latest fashion craze. However, I haven't met any girls who are any good in a philosophical debate...

::ducks and covers::
 

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Posted by filetted (Member # 5048) on :
 
maturity? please define.



Having run the gamut of age relations, I think it's not so much a matter of maturity (read: civility and staidness) as being on enough common lambdas to stick a relationship. The wider the age gap, the fewer the lambdas.

flish
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
Lambdas? Was that a math allusion? I'm one of those dim liberal-arts types.
 

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Posted by filetted (Member # 5048) on :
 
DIM
 

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Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
 
i agree that actual chronological age doesn't matter *too* much, but i also think if you are in two different stages of life that it may be peachy in the beginning but be prepared for serious struggles in the not so distant future.

i agree a lot with what slash and irami said, but i also find great beauty in the enthusiasm and freshness of young women.
but that doesn't mean i think older men should be chasing after them. after all, the relationship usually ends not long after the prey is caught.
bleah. it just feels all too much like a rabbit hunt to me.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"Ah, but when you meet that man who is interested not so much in you in a pair of Calvin Kleins as you in a philosophical debate, that's the really attractive part."

You know, I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea: if the guy isn't interested in your figure in a pair of Calvin Kleins (or other tight-fitting clothing), you're going to have a bad relationship even if he finds you intellectually stimulating.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
*snort*
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*beams at Irami and Slash*
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
No snorting necessary. If a romantic relationship is built on purely intellectual pursuits, it will fail.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Tom, I was laughing because what you said is completely obvious but no one had said it before you.

Physical attraction IS necessary.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
>> Ah, but when you meet that man who is interested not so much in you in a pair of Calvin Kleins as you in a philosophical debate, that's the really attractive part. <<

As Tom said, it's best to be interested in both.

But so far, interestingly, the only time I've come upon both of those things at once is my brief interlude with Train Cutie #1 from one of my old threads, and she was nine years my senior.
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
My younger brother's wife is 10 years older than he, and they are perfect for each other.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
My dad has sixteen years on my mum (1926 and 1942).
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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Ah, but when you meet that man who is interested not so much in you in a pair of Calvin Kleins as you in a philosophical debate, that's the really attractive part.

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I've met exactly four like this. I miss them. *wistful*
 

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Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
 
As if you didn't know, Twinky, Kat would fit the bill for you nicely there... I can't speak for the reverse though...

I would like to go on record as supporting Slash and Irami in the "women generally look best later on" movement. I think women look their best in their early 40's, for the most part.
 

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Posted by Fishtail (Member # 3900) on :
 
I'm dating a guy 8 years older than I am. We have common levels of education, physical fitness, literacy and silliness. I honestly wouldn't notice the age difference if it didn't sometimes come up in conversation about things we remember...his "'way back when" is slightly further back than mine, and that's about it.
 

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Posted by Head Ditch Digger (Member # 5085) on :
 
I personally find women that are 31, extremly attractive, especially ones from virginia that now live in Arizona and is married to me.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
>> As if you didn't know, Twinky, Kat would fit the bill for you nicely there... (TAK)

*nods* I've noticed, although before the dream proposal it seems to have been unconscious.

>> I can't speak for the reverse though... <<

Nor can I, but she doesn't run away when I post
 

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Posted by Fishtail (Member # 3900) on :
 
I also think that the older both parties get, the less age matters...a 10-year difference in your 20s/30s is less so in your 60s/70s and beyond...
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Yes, because it's the ratios that are important
 

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Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
 

quote:

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Legality aside Thor if you were married you would feel sick to your stomach talking about waiting till a young women turned the right legal age.

Besides what happens to you guys when the women who is 18 turns 30???? Do you drop her for another young one???? Seems a little shallow even for Thor.

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quote:

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It's funny, Thor, but I had a weird dream once that you would be the type to love a series of young girls and discard them one by one. My first hatrack dream. <laughs> Write me if you're interested in hearing my dream.

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I'm not a love and leave 'em type guy, and I've never thought of myself as a player. I'm ALWAYS looking for love. That's what I want, Love and a Deep, Deep very honest and loyal friendship.

Ak - I'll write you soon, I'd love to hear more details of your dream.

I'm not shallow. If anything, I consider myself deeply wounded, possibly beyond repair.

I'm stuck between my parents tragic divorce and the relationships that have died in my life. I do believe I've had about 10 girls swear they loved me and would stay with me forever.

<T>
 

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Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
 
...oh and...

I don't understand the people who don't believe that physical attraction is a part of the Love. I do wish that all people could find and love someone Honest, Cool, Smart, Wise, and Honorable AND ATTRACTIVE to fall in love with...

If you are going to spend your life with someone, I think it's only right to love someone who you are spiritually, mentally and PHYSICALLY attracted to...

Yes, I know that after my 50's the physical part will go away, but what about the next 20 years of my life when my Hormonal Nuclear Engines are revving at full speeeddddddd?

????
 

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Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
 
Hehe... Thor's HNEs are raging!
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Don't get me wrong. I just happen to like the way smart fit 35 year olds look in a pair of jeans. If every woman were Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham, life would be a dream.

[ July 30, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Thor, experience tells me that being 50 has nothing to do with diminished capacity. Look forward to decades of happy escapades, my friend.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"If every woman were Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham, life would be a dream."

I suspect that Irami is speaking literally, having had this dream before.
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 


Daidle deedle daidle
Daidle daidle deedle daidle dum
All day long I'd biddy-biddy-bum...

[ July 30, 2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
*joins katharina in beamage*


 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
(Tom, you've been dreaming about Irami?)


 

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Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
Thor:

quote:

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I don't understand the people who don't believe that physical attraction is a part of the Love. I do wish that all people could find and love someone Honest, Cool, Smart, Wise, and Honorable AND ATTRACTIVE to fall in love with...

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Joseph Campbell stated that, for the Troubadors, Love and the act of making love were inseparable. Witness: Tristan and Isolde .

Just here to throw gas on the fire....
 

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Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
 
Speaking of older men and younger women, Woody Allen's new film.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
Heh...he can make that film from personal experience, I think.
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
Tolstoy was mid forties when he married for the first time, and his wife was a teenager. Of course you can't say things exactly worked out so great for them. Still "Family Happiness" is one of my favorite stories of all time. It was when I first learned that there are men who can fall in love as I do. His description of it was too accurate for me to doubt that he too had experienced it.

Then Dostoyevsky captured it again in "The Little Hero". This time with a young man and an older woman. That's probably my favorite ever Dostoyevsky story and it's out of print! I haven't been able to find it anywhere.

I know people think my age-indifference is weird but trying to understand other people's age-prejudice, I really get baffled. It's just not something I can feel, no matter how I try. For me it's all about the person, who they are.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
How about "Harold and Maude," one of my favorite all time movies? Now, that was an age difference.
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
Psychiatrist: How many of these suicides have you staged now?

Harold: <i forget how many he said>

Psychiatrist: And all of them have been for your mother's benefit?

Harold: No, I would not say "benefit".

ROFL!
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Ha!
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
lambda = wavelength I used to use the expression too but then I realized that no one but science-physics geeks could understand me, not entirely bad, but when you already have older guys intimidated because you clobber them at calculus somtimes being less of a geek doesn't hurt.

AJ
 

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Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
This is what comes of sandstone hearts.

I traded mine in for one of obsidian.
 

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Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
 
Sounds like you got four years with the gal, Thor. Maybe 3.5 years of total bliss. That's passed, time to get on with it. Sounds like you're only hurting yourself.

Try taking yourself a little less seriously. You wear your broken heart on your sleeve, pal. Fix it up, put it back where it belongs and move FORWARD.

Calling oneself a romantic and then wallowing in self pity (maybe i'll never find love, maybe i'll never be married) is a lot like claiming to be the best script writer in the world without having your scripts out there in the hands of real producers.

Earth to Planet Silverblue... reality check. Make things real by your own positive actions, not by stewing in your own negatives thoughts.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
And let us not forget the homage paid to katharina, who is young and beautiful ... but under no circumstances twit-headed, shallow, or even remotely less than a force to be reckoned with.

Yeah, I got hope for you, Thor. *poke, poke

You got some good taste.
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
Well, I know people will tell you to move on, that there will be others for you, and to get over it, and stuff like that, but I really think they just don't know what it's like to be you. Listen to your own heart. If it tells you it's still shattered, that it is not over it yet, then let it have what time it needs to mend. Not everyone is the same. Not all hearts are the same.

My heart is very steady and serious and sad and slow to change. That makes it very slow to mend, as well. It can take four years or more to get over being broken. Depending on the circumstances. Or it can take forever. One never knows.
 

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Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
 
I went four years once with a broken heart. I was tragic, I was romantic, I swore I'd never love again. When your fiance` up and takes off with your roommate, it's pretty easy to shatter.

But something struck me one day... while I was moping and living in the ongoing agony, the rest of the world was moving on, going on its way. There's really no telling what I missed during my prolonged misery.

I do know, however, that keeping one's self broken hearted, not releasing the past to the times already passed and only loving and feeling from a safe distance does neither you or anyone else any good. It's also downright selfish. Only your own misery matters, only what used to be and what could have been take precedence in your mind. It's a very, very unhealthy place to be.

Catch, release, reflect, return to the land of the living. It's your life, and your only guaranteed trip through on this spinning globe, so if you want to avoid enjoying it and contributing, who am I to say?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Sopwith, you said that beautifully.

The languishing pose of "I'm Misunderstood and Destined for a Different Fate" is ultimately very self-centered.
 

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Posted by Rohan (Member # 5141) on :
 
Thor, 1,006 big, fat AMEN!!!!!s to Natalie Portman. The one famous person I would not be able to talk to if I met her. I would just become a babbling idiot, but, dammit, I'd be happy!
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
Well the same is true for any grief, yet grieving is something people do. It's something hearts do. Do you go to funerals and tell the people to snap out of it, that life goes on? I know that nobody does that.

Grief takes as long as it takes. At some point your heart will get over it, but trying to force it to doesn't work for some people. Odd how people don't see that. Different people are different. I promise I won't be shocked if you wear a red dress and take a date to your husband's funeral if you won't tell me to snap out of it and be all smart and selfless like you in dealing with grief. Deal?
 

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Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
 
AK, I think we're speaking on two different levels of magnitude here. It is okay to have a broken heart, or to take time to grieve. But there does come a time, eventually, when one does need to "snap out of it."

I can't tell a person when they should, but I do believe that if it has gone for more than a year, it has gone too long. And we're not talking about feeling a little wystful or melancholy here, we're talking about those who willingly remove themselves from love and life for an excessive amount of time. That does become a form of neurosis and self abuse.
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
Yes, I think levels of magnitude is exactly what we're talking about. Different people have differences that are levels of magnitude apart.
 

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Posted by Jeffrey Getzin (Member # 1972) on :
 

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Hamlet is not a tragedy because it makes life harder for men who marry their dead brother's wife. It's a tragedy because everyone in the play dies.

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Strictly speaking, that's not quite true. A number of characters survive, including Fortinbras and Horatio.

Jeff
 

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Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
 
*tackles Jeff*

Missed you, buddy. Bonduca, too.

Hamlet is a tragedy because of the lost potential of youth, caught up in revenge and so much the individuals had so little to do with. Or something.
 

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Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
 
I'm a "broken-heart-on-the-sleeve romantic", too. Whee!

In all seriousness, I just have to say that what ak said is really very wise and I totally agree.

You did make some VERY good points, though, Sopwith.
 

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Posted by Jeffrey Getzin (Member # 1972) on :
 
Hi, Olivet.

Jeff
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 

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What did I get as a reward?

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Well-- what kind of reward do you think being faithful merits?

And about pseudo-christians-- I'm watching some Christian programming at work right now. One of those paid programming jobbers, trying to sell a video called 'Escape From Hell,' 'Time Changers,' and a variety of other Christian media. The sound is turned off, and let me tell you, it is FREAKY. Not just funny, or a little odd, but FREAKY. Especially when they show groups of young people at a Christian rock concert. . . very, very kool-aid-and-cyanide imagery.

Wow. 'Time Changers' has Paul Rodriguez in it.
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 

 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Losing Jeff and bonduca was a tragedy. We can only hope we are in the midst of a conversion into a redemption.
 

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Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
 

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if the guy isn't interested in your figure in a pair of Calvin Kleins (or other tight-fitting clothing), you're going to have a bad relationship even if he finds you intellectually stimulating

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I don't think women hit their stride until 25 and don't peak until forty. Before then, they don't even look fully grown. An 18 year-old girl of sensible habits is going to make an even more attractive 33 year old woman. All of those sins that prematurely age women: booze, cigarettes, and cheese cake, if abstained from or moderated to an acceptable proportion, can yield glowing 35 year old women with healthy skin and robust sexual appetites, while still decently sized in the beam. When you combine those lower virtues with true Virtue of the light of knowledge that comes along with fifteen more years of good books and travel, the product is divine.

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I absolutely agree that experience can be beautiful, but a couple points.

First, I think, in general, people that get experience, who adventure and meet new minds and grow, do so from a fairly young age. The kid that plops her ass in front of the television and never wants to engage herself proactively is someone that's going to be doing the same damn thing in ten, twenty, thirty years. So, age doesn't mean that someone achieves character.

Second, I think that experience is a double-edged sword. People learn the wrong things, sometimes, from their experiences. For instances, the adventuresome girl who strays and is hurt may learn that it's wrong to adventure and become afraid of life.

We see this on this forum. So often people come on this forum, engage in threads, make threads for a while, and then fade away because they get hurt. They retreat, or get frustrated and retreat. Either way, they quit engaging or barely engage through one sentence quips and sniping.

The tragedy of Peter Pan isn't that he stayed a child so much as that he didn't learn to combine the child with the adult. So many adults are Peter Pans in this sense or, as bad, become Captain Hooks, hating wimsy, play, and fun because these things are against Order and Neatness and aren't Productive.

Is that metaphor strained enough yet?

I get the attraction of young women in that there is so much optimism and energy to them, but if this energy and optimism is combined with experience, an eye for wimsy, and a playful spirit in a mature woman, then hands down, a mature woman is much more attractive to me.
 

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Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
My mother always said that men don't have any sense before 25.

-pH
 

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Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
sweet. I have sense now. Who knew?
 

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