Forget Murder, Greed, Corporate Invasion, Political Corruption, Religious Capitalism, Cancerous Spreading Ignorance and Hate, Government Terrorism, Poverty or Foreign Terrorism, the biggest, and most dangerous issue facing Americans today is the threat of gay marriage, and homosexuals converting people to put thier peni into the pooh hole of other men.
It is obvious that the Holy Bible finds homosexuality the WORST of all sins, and places it on a much higher pedestal than all other sins, so we as God Loving Americans must exterminate homosexuals and homosexuality NOW!
This is above and beyond the greatest threat to our nation and to The All Mighty God. If we do not act now, all is lost forever and ever.
So let us speak of nothing else but the eradication of homosexuals, and their ways, until the problem is solved, then we can get back to solving the second worst problem plagueing America, abortion.
As we ALL know, once we get rid of homosexuality and abortion, our nation will pretty much be a perfect utopia, safe and kind for all to live in, if only we could get rid of homosexuality and abortion, the two things that lead to 98% of all American problems.
<<<T>>>
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Well, Thor, thank you for restating opinions in a clear and succinct manner. That is exactly what people are trying to express.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What really angers me is when people speak out more against homosexuality than child molestation. So it seems like that to me... It drives me beyond insane. Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Synth, if I recall some of his other commentaries, Thor actually agrees with you on that point.
AJ
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Of course, everyone already agrees that child molestation is a horrible thing. The subject doesn't come up as often as homosexuality, I think, but when it does, people are unanimous in speaking out against it. So it's not really valid to complain that no one is speaking out against child molestation.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:What really angers me is when people speak out more against homosexuality than child molestation.
Syn, I understand your frustration...
But both with you and Thor, isn't that just another way getting someone to keep quiet? "You're talking about the wrong thing. No no, don't talk about that, talk about this."
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: isn't that just another way getting someone to keep quiet?
Yes. And Synth and I's plan has worked perfectly, we've gotten Hatrack to forget about homoesexuality all together.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
So suppression of speech is only wrong if it works?
BTW, why aren't you in Dallas. Slash was asking about you.
[ August 05, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Der Grammatikfuehrer (Member # 5015) on :
quote:. . . Synth and I's . . . [emphasis added]
Heaven have mercy.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
quote: What really angers me is when people speak out more against homosexuality than child molestation.
That happens because everyone knows that molestation is wrong. If there was a group that advocated making molestation legal and making it a norm, then there would be an outcry.
The reason people are speaking out against homosexuality is because other people are saying it is OK. Not so with molestation.
Posted by qsysue (Member # 5229) on :
I must've missed something. Cuz I don't get it.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: BTW, why aren't you in Dallas. Slash was asking about you.
Uhhh...Kat...when you made a weird ass reference that I might be some creepy stalker that made you feel unsafe, that pretty much solidified my un-appearence in Dallas.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote:The reason people are speaking out against homosexuality is because other people are saying it is OK.
Why don't we destroy the people who say that gays are OK? And destroy the gays?
Then GOD would be happy and our society would be perfect.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
My big problem is the way no one can really explain to me why homosexuality is considered wrong without quoating scripture every five seconds. That's what I can't understand. The way it seems like a lot of people view gayness as being worse than, say, rape. It doesn't make any sense to me. Couldn't it be like this: A form of flexibility in which something is viewed as wrong because it's truly harmful and not because a specific religious doctrine says so. Why is it that people can't question and reevaluate (Sp) doctrine instead of saying it is right no matter what and hurting a lot of people in the process?
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
What a great idea! I mean I'm so mad I didn't even MENTION that in my post. Crap. I was SO close to becoming the UBER-HOMOPHOBE and then you came in a nd beat me.
Silver whatever,
That is the biggest load of crap I've seen in a while. I tried to explain why people were protesting homosexuality over molestation, and you attacked me. Boy, please.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Well, that comment did creep me out, but that was before the Dallas discussion.
Why didn't you ask? We all thought you'd be there.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
You can't build a church with anal sex, but you can build a church with money. That is why it is OK to pick and choose sins. That is why almost all american christian churches agree that homosexuality is the WORST SIN and that greed is good. Greed builds churchs and spreads religion, where anal sex doesn't make money. BUT if you make people feel extra damned for the anal sex, then they will give money to the church to be forgiven.
This is why, the church has embraced greed as a virtue, and damned homosexuality as an unforgiveable sin.
Anal sex never built a church.
Not directly, anyways.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
Great generalization Sun, perfect for making your point...too bad it isn't really ture.
I will repeat what I said earlier, homosexuality is a big deal because people are saying it isn't a sin. If people tried to say greed is OK, then the church should and would take a different stance and attack that.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: If people tried to say greed is OK, then the church should and would take a different stance and attack that.
BULLSHIT.
You lost all credibility now.
Thinking the Church would attack greed?
HHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
How in hell do you think the Catholic Church collected Billions in Land and Money? How in hell do you think the Baptist Church collected Billions in Land and Money? How in hell do you think the Lutheran Church collected Billions in Land and Money? How in the hell do you think that the LDS Church collected Billions in Land and money?
The church attack greed?
HAHAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAH
The church is the one of the great helpers who turned greed into a virtue.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
My God...my position has been ruined by GENERALIZED STATEMENTS WHICH MEAN NOTHING!!
Your way of arguing is simple and crude. Take the worst that an organization has done and ignore the rest. Have you forgotten more than 50% of all homeless shelters and soup kitchens? Have you forgotten the Jesuits, the abolitionists?
Oh wait. They don't mean anything because all that matters is what a few corrupt church officials did in 14th century Spain.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
Oh yeah. Please explain what you meant by
"The church is the one of the great helpers who turned greed into a virtue."
I truly have no idea what you mean.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: Have you forgotten more than 50% of all homeless shelters and soup kitchens?
No. Have you forgotten scripture? The rich and the religious need the poor. They are the ones who would lose out by solving poverty, so they do not teach men to fish, they teach men how to accept charity. They do not provide men honest jobs with honest wages with housing kept under honest pricing controls, they provide soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
The religious society does not seek to end poverty, only to milk it.
<T>
And P....don't forget. Religion killed Jesus.
Posted by the_dead: (Member # 3962) on :
Isn't there a difference between Homosexuality and Sodomy ?
Posted by the_dead: (Member # 3962) on :
I think you have a pretty solid 'Capitalist' version of religion going here - that is, there is nothing WRONG with poverty - your frenzy to solve it is more a displaced form of capitalist ethic - the very one you accuse the so called 'churchs' of complying with. Shantih. Shantih.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: Oh yeah. Please explain what you meant by
"The church is the one of the great helpers who turned greed into a virtue."
I truly have no idea what you mean.
I'll give you the nut shell.
Take sweet william. He's going on and on and on about how Homosexuality is wrong, and he mentions on the side about how George W. Bushes tax cuts are good.
What the F?
America now homes over 300 BILLIONARES. 300 BILLIONARES. George W. is GIVING these people back MONEY. WHY? So the will give him money, a bit of quid pro quo. Do we forget that the minimum wage was supposed to be connected to housing? Yes. Do we forget that the minimum wage hasn't been touched since 1995? Yes. Does the church receive a direct pay off from governement and business? Yes.
The church will not bite the hand that feeds it. That is why the church will attack homosexuality and send it's most powerful armies against the puffs, but it will stay silent against the rise of materialism and rampant corruption in government and business.
<T>
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
Yeah! Karl Marx!! Yippee!
So how do the religious benefit from keeping the poor poor? Oh that's right, they're just a division of Microsoft, right?
That's crap and you know it. The reason that such a situation occurs is that there is stagnation and corruption, and since the church is human it fails to be perfect.
To single out religion (in particular Christianity) as you do is folly.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
There are 2 billion people on Earth living on less than $2.00 a day.
...but what GOD really wants us to focus on is the less than 20 million gay citizens of America.
<T>
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
You're wrong about the church. But if it will not fight corruption and greed now, I will take the helm and make it fight those vices.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
Boy, please!
Come off your high horse and think!
Do you think the church is a one track organization?
Is it not leading the fight to get rid of AIDS in Africa?
Those missions it has trying to help out the poor don't count do they? Because they are "tools of the rich white man," right?
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: To single out religion (in particular Christianity) as you do is folly.
Why?
I single out Christianity, for two reasons.
#1 - I am a Son of Christ. I speak to my people about the ills that plague them.
#2 - If a capitalist athiest says he doesn't believe in God and loves to make money, and then goes out and acts like he doesn't believe in God and he loves money. He is honest. If a Christian man comes out and says he doesn't love money and he loves God, but acts as if he doesn't love God and he loves money. That is great sin against his fellow man.
And -P-
What darkness religion do you belong to that teaches you to call people who are AGAINST deficit building tax cuts for Billionares "Karl Marx" fans?
Does your wacko religion teach you Jesus was a Darwin Capitalist?
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
My Marx comment was directed towards this:
quote: No. Have you forgotten scripture? The rich and the religious need the poor. They are the ones who would lose out by solving poverty, so they do not teach men to fish, they teach men how to accept charity. They do not provide men honest jobs with honest wages with housing kept under honest pricing controls, they provide soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
The religious society does not seek to end poverty, only to milk it.
Which put me in mind to think Marx.
I personally think the tax cut is a crappy idea all around [edited in: because it is an attempt at trickle down economics, not because it gives money back to the public], but I still think that homosexuality is a problem.
quote: #1 - I am a Son of Christ. I speak to my people about the ills that plague them.
Please tell me that I misunderstood your comment. Are you saying that you are a Christian or Christ?
[ August 05, 2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Potemkyn ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Pot, you see, he's the Messiah. It doesn't pay much, but the business cards look great.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
quote: #2 - If a capitalist athiest says he doesn't believe in God and loves to make money, and then goes out and acts like he doesn't believe in God and he loves money. He is honest. If a Christian man comes out and says he doesn't love money and he loves God, but acts as if he doesn't love God and he loves money. That is great sin against his fellow man.
This is a problem. Hypocrisy is an incredibly annoying sin, but that still doesn't change the church's stance on homosexuality and it shouldn't change it either.
Posted by qsysue (Member # 5229) on :
Keep up those generalizations. They'll serve you well.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
quote: Are you saying that you are a Christian or Christ?
I am a son of Christ. I am a Child of God. (We Are All the Children of God)
To me the modern definition of a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord an Savior...but that's as far as they go.
To accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and to WORK to be Like Christ, to walk the God road, are two seperate things.
quote: Pot, you see, he's the Messiah. It doesn't pay much, but the business cards look great.
Kat, doesn't your belief have a living prophet who talks directly to God, and 12 apostles who council on stuff? And didn't your #1 prophet turn wine to water?
Oh, how I must sound a bit crazy.
- POT -
I am not argueing that homosexuality is a virtue, I am agreeing that it is in all regards a sin, but why does the CHURCH pick on homosexuality so much? Why does it give so much weight to homosexuality over the 100's of sins plaguing our nation and this world today?
Why?
Because the church is WEAK and Homosexuality is WEAK, so Homosexuality is about the only fight the church can afford to fight.
That's what I believe.
You may be one of the people who doesn't judge a church by it's actions, but I do. Our society is going to shit, and for all of the church's money, power and influence, it is toothless.
<T>
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
Another difference, a modern Christian is TOLD by a Church how to live, think, believe, a son of God should seek out God for himself, and find out 1st hand what it is God wills.
<T>
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
And then, of course, there are those churches that tell people to seek out God and find out first-hand what it is God wills. You know, like the LDS Church.
Posted by qsysue (Member # 5229) on :
Can we at least determine which church you're talking about, Sun? Cuz you've totally lost me with your lumping-them-all-together.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
So you are an imitator of Christ?
Then perhaps we have some common ground from which we can work something out.
Do you think that man has been contacted by God?
If so, how and by what means?
If not, how do we communicate with God and does it matter because it only applies to us?
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
Real quick, though, you reject my thoughts on why homosexuals are such a big deal to the church?
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
quote: And then, of course, there are those churches that tell people to seek out God and find out first-hand what it is God wills. You know, like the LDS Church.
Yes. And there are also churches like the Roman Catholic Church where being homosexual is not a sin in and of itself . That's one of the biggest Catholic myths I've ever heard. You might want to stop generalizing and start singling out some specific churches.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Huh? I really have no idea what you're talking about, Cavalier.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
He does make some interesting points though. It really, really doesn't make any sense to me at all... Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
quote: Another difference, a modern Christian is TOLD by a Church how to live, think, believe, a son of God should seek out God for himself, and find out 1st hand what it is God wills.
At what point does this start and end? Since the church (Presbyterian, at least) says that the Bible is the final authority on all religious matters. Now I agree that you can't let a particular religious leader force feed you something, but do believe that there is a limit?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pot, you see, he's the Messiah. It doesn't pay much, but the business cards look great. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kat, doesn't your belief have a living prophet who talks directly to God, and 12 apostles who council on stuff? And didn't your #1 prophet turn wine to water?
Oh, how I must sound a bit crazy.
Exactly.
Thor needs to know the religion of whomever he is talking to, so when questioned or pressed, he can attack. He can pull out his Standard Book of Insults and try to silence them.
Just remember that - you're talking to someone who is convinced he's a god. It explains a lot.
Posted by m. bowles (Member # 3743) on :
What darkness religion do you belong to that teaches you to call people who are AGAINST deficit building tax cuts for Billionares "Karl Marx" fans?
I am not a billionare. I like the tax rebates or whatever you call them.
Posted by m. bowles (Member # 3743) on :
And as for the whole gay thing, I have friends who are gay and my only gripe is the whole resistance is futile thing. You will be assimilated....
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Potemkyn, qsysue, I know y'all are new around here, so here's a word of advice: Thor just gets like this sometimes and feels like he needs to rant and make sweeping statements that will most likely offend someone. Arguing with him and telling him not to do that really won't get you anywhere. All you'll get is more of the same. So the best thing to do is just wait around until he's calmed down and starts posting really funny stuff again.
Posted by Potemkyn (Member # 5465) on :
Thanks for the advice. It was enjoyable, though.
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
- Katharina -
????????????what is your deal??????????????
?Why must thou attack me?
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
I was agreeing with you Jon Boy. I'm assuming you're saying the LDS church is mischracterized as being blatantly anit-homosexual. As is the Catholic Church. It's just another example of the same thing, not a criticism.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Ah, okay. I thought you were telling me to stop generalizing, which didn't make any sense. And really, all I was saying is that it isn't just a choice between following a religion or trying to find God by yourself. There's a great deal of overlap where religions encourage people to find God. I was just pointing out Thor's false dichotomy and poor generalizations.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
I don't like where this thread is going. I think we should all just quit posting here and let it die a natural death.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Why would you bump this?
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Silverblue Sun:
quote: Have you forgotten more than 50% of all homeless shelters and soup kitchens?
No. Have you forgotten scripture? The rich and the religious need the poor. They are the ones who would lose out by solving poverty, so they do not teach men to fish, they teach men how to accept charity. They do not provide men honest jobs with honest wages with housing kept under honest pricing controls, they provide soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
The religious society does not seek to end poverty, only to milk it.
<T>
And P....don't forget. Religion killed Jesus.
You must have no familiarity with an LDS employment center, or how the entire welfare system of the LDS church works. The entire premise is that if you are going to give someone charity, you must be teaching them how to become self-reliant. I needed help once from the church financially, and I am currently seeking a new job through their employment center. In both instances, I have been taught the sacred nature of the charity funds and given tremendous help in becoming self-sufficient. They want you to get on your own two feet as soon as possible, and I know this from firsthand experience.
I can't speak for other churches, since I am LDS, but you did include LDS above as one of the greed-promoting churches. I suppose any church that receives money from its members must be greedy, no matter how much good they do with that money.
And yes, I will continue to give tithing and donations to my church, because I have never seen an organization that was more efficient with donated funds and runs on a largely volunteer basis (including the prophet of the church).
And if you think, as some believe, that the top leaders of the LDS church are making personal profit from their positions, check with the auditing company that audits the LDS church every year.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You do realize you are arguing about a 3-year-old post written by someone who almost never posts on Hatrack these days?
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
And wasn't particularly taken seriously when he did?
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
My bad. That's what I get for posting when I'm exhausted and should be in bed.
And that's why I was thinking in the back of my head, "Man, it's been a while since I've seen him post." Guess I should look at the date next time.
I think I'll go to bed now... Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
Has anyone seen this?
Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
I haven't been to the movie, nor will I purchase it. The idea that Jesus did not exist as a historical figure (whether or not you believe in Him as a religious figure) is so much in the minority in the historical and religious scholarship communities today, that the statement is largely considered to be ingorance by the scholastic community. There is currently more evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical person than there is that Julius Ceaser did.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
You know, Andi, that's not true. I mean, you can contend that he existed, and you can even claim that his existence is currently the consensus view. But the idea that he's better attested historically than Julius Caesar is just hyperbole.
For the record, the reason I don't think he existed isn't just the lack of historical documentation. It's the presence of historical references to people such as Yeshua the Notzri, who lived a couple of centuries BCE, and who pretty clearly served as at least one of the models for the character of JC.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by starLisa: You know, Andi, that's not true. I mean, you can contend that he existed, and you can even claim that his existence is currently the consensus view. But the idea that he's better attested historically than Julius Caesar is just hyperbole.
It's not just not true, it's laughable. His existence is certainly the consensus view, but there are mountains more historical evidence for Caesar than for Christ.
Not to mention that for centuries it was a death sentence to deny His existence, which clouds the issue.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
I cant believe I just spent the last twenty minutes reading this thread only to find out it its three frakkin years old....
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
quote:Originally posted by Damien.m: I cant believe I just spent the last twenty minutes reading this thread only to find out it its three frakkin years old....
Yes, but it's good to know your history, for he who knows not his history is bound to repeat it. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I knew something was oddly familiar about this.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Homosexual behavior is certainly no worse than many other behaviors identified by the Bible as sin; indeed, adultery and abuse and child molestation cause clear harm throughout society. The difference is there are no political lobbies and action committees campaigning to push their demands that everyone regardless of their religious beliefs must accept adultery, abuse, child molestation, etc., as acceptable lifestyle alternatives, on pain of legal prosecution.
What is the reason for the Biblical condemnation of homosexual behavior? I think it is because the Bible says God created man in His own image, and when Satan can induce humans to debase themselves by indulging in homosexual behavior, he exults that he has gotten humans to mock and dishonor God.
Furthermore, Genesis says that after God created man and other creatures "male and female" He called it good. A perversion of this arrangement is contrary to God's creation, and is not what He called good.
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