Tom and I have been talking about this for a couple of years now, and although we'd been planning to get him back to school first, my maternal clock is really starting to tick. Especially with all the new blessings here on Hatrack!
Sadly, as I was telling Slash, I don't think that anyone is ever "ready" to have children. Every time I've even chanced to think about the prospect and how much I'd like children, that practical side of my brain comes up with all these worries about future plans.
However, most of the questions I'd like YOU to answer (especially those new moms) is what you decided to do for the first year after your child's birth. I.E. Did the mom quit her job, work part time, just take the 6 weeks off? Did dad take some time off? How soon before/if baby went into daycare? What would you do differently?
I ask these questions because I was reading the Federal Leave Act which allows either parent to take time off after the birth of a child which must be initiated so many weeks (perhaps six?) after the birth. I thought it might be wonderful for Tom to be able to take some time off and for the two of us to work part time for as long as we could use our vacation/sick/non-paid allowed time and ideally I'd like to take the first year home.
More later...work calls...imagine that? *grin*
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Christy, I agree with you. I don't think anyone is ever "ready" to have children. If you want to do it, you just take the plunge and do it. It's hard at times, but also very rewarding. Sometimes you wonder what you are doing wrong to have gotten such monsters for kids. Then they grow up, and, in my case, anyway, you figure you must have been doing something right to have them grow up so intelligent, independent, thoughtful, and articulate (not to brag or anything ).
In my case, I quit my job when I had kids. My husband and I felt that infants and young children need a fulltime parent. My husband would have stayed home with the kids in a heartbeat, but he had the higher salary, and could support me staying home with the kids, if we made some sacrifices and budget cuts in our lifestyle.
When each child was born, my husband took a week off from work to be with me and the new baby. That bonding time and togetherness really made a difference for us. (Family leave was unheard of in those days.)
Even after he went back to work, he had his special time with the kids each evening, giving them their baths, reading to them, and getting them ready for bed.
I really didn't even consider going back to work until I felt the kids were ready for preschool, and then it was only parttime, so I could be home for the kids when preschool was over.
Basically, parents do have to evaluate their lifestyles and expectations, and decide what will work best for them and their family.
I wish you and Tom the best of luck, whatever you decide.
**Ela**
[ August 08, 2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
If you don't already have one, get a dog first. If you can't handle a dog, you can't handle a kid.
Other than that, pray, and although I know Tom is an athiest/agnostic he will agree with me on this, that the kid takes after you in the looks department.
msquared
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I call First Aunt slot. (Yeah, sure, I know you have a sister, Christy, but I will make an awesome aunt.)
He or she may call me Aunt T'Pau, and our first mission will be the establishment of a sheet tent fort. (Well, after we find our toes, but I have a feeling we will be advanced for our age. )
Next stop: kitchen science and the art of magic. Vinegar and baking soda bombs await.
Aunt T'Pau, the coolest member of the family
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
I wish CT were my aunt. Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
The worries always seem to find a way to work out in the end, I've noticed. I took about 2 weeks off when Thomas was born, to help out Jen (recovering from her c-section) and to spend time with my new little buddy. She has been off work for about 10 weeks, and is going back next week. She only works about 4 or 5 hours a day though. She really wants to stay home, but I don't make enough to support us yet. She's going to take classes at night to finish her teaching degree, so she can teach when Thomas goes to school. Does that help? Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
A bunch of my friends are having kids now, I know it is the age. I don't have any maternal tickings in my own breast. I have one friend that knows all she wants to do is stay at home with her children and is totally thrilled with the prospect, though she could be making a considerable amount of money. Both of them are engineers so either one could support a family on their income alone.
But, another very good friend of mine quickly realized that even though she loves her baby very much, she is NOT cut out to be a stay at home mom. She needs the knowledge that she is doing something productive outside the home. In the interm she has become an obsessive compulsive cleaning and gardening nazi. She has been working part time, about 20 hours a week as a pharmacy tech, and sometimes lives for the break from the house she gets when at work.
They are talking about having another child before she goes to pharmacy school, and I wonder if having a second child would give her more chaos and challenge than having only one has. But, she has so much internal drive, that she really needs validation outside of the home for herself. The thing is, she didn't know this about herself before she actually had the baby and started staying home with him!
AJ
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
You two are going to be great parents!
I don't know firsthand about parenting; but I really wish my mother had gone back to work when I was 7 or 8. She's just now going back to work (I'm 18) nd it's a lot harder for the whole family to adjust than it would have been if it had happened when we were much younger. I think that once kids start school they don't really need a full time parent, and it does a lot to strain relations between them if the parent does stay home. This is just my personal expieerience though, and my family spends most of its time hovering on the line between functional and dysfunctional.
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
*Even reading this thread makes my stomach hurt*
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My mom stayed home with us until I was 16, which is when my dad changed careers and she HAD to go back to work. I must say, it was GREAT when I was in elementary school. I loved that.
If you've ever read Lost Boys,though, the next statement will make a bunch of sense. She had her external validation and sense of accomplishment - even while staying home - through church. She was always president of something or other, and she was very good at it. She also loved staying home with us. It really worked for her.
[ August 08, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Yes, it worked for me, too, Kate. I would be a stay-at-home mom even now if we didn't need the income and insurance benefits.
**Ela**
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
Christy,
You are right, no one is ever "ready" to have kids. No matter what you expect parenthood to be like you will always be surprised.
I stayed home for 11 weeks after Mooselet was born. After all of his problems my boss offered to let me stay home longer, but it wasn't really feasable financially. Papa Moose stayed home the first week. He missed more work when Mooselet got sick.
I handled leaving Mooselet with someone else better than I expected. I think it helped to know she understood his foot problems (her daughter was born with foot deformities as well). When I got the new job closer to home the person who watched him was a close friend from college. You definitely have to be comfortable with the person you leave your child with. That will make all the difference for your peace of mind.
As Papa Moose has said in other threads, I would love to be a stay-at-home mom. Right now it is more feasable for him to be a stay-at-home dad. If you can afford to stay at home for a year I would say go for it!
-Mama
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Christy, if you ever need to get over this urge to have a baby, find some friends with an obnoxious teenager and spend lots of time with them. A good place to do that would be on a forced, boring vacation that involved the teenager in the back of the car with at least one much younger sibling annoying the daylights out of him/her. After a week or two of that, you'll realize that, while cute as babies, those things tend to grow up into monsters!
Good luck either way, though. Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Kristine is going to be staying home with Ryan when he finally gets here. Right now, that is what she wants to do, but after being hoome for a while with him, we'll see.
We have some friends who are both engineers. They could have either one stay home and live on the others salary, but she has decided to go back to work part-time. She told me it wasn't about the money, but about keeping up with her career, being productive, etc. She could also do her work from home, but she chooses to come in. Something about less distractions.
When do you other parents think would be the best time for me to stay home when Ryan comes? Both Kristine's mom and my mom will be able to come up right after he is born. It will certainly be easier with my job to plan an extended leave with some advance notice. Would it make sense for me to work part-time while the moms are around and then stay home when they leave or is it important to be there that first week or so?
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Zan, that's actually what I was going to do with Thomas - my parents were going to be here for a week, and then Jen's parents were going to help out. With the c-section, I just decided to take it right away. She felt more comfortable with me there to help her with the lifting and the bending stuff.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I'm not the world's greatest example of a stay at home mom. I'm still struggling to find that external validation.
However, I can tell that even as a not-so-great SAHM, my kids are still far better off than when I worked full time and they were in daycare.
With my two oldest, I took off only the six weeks. It was awful. I was so upset about leaving them and going back to work.
Of course, when the twins were born I became a full time Mom. It's definitely the way to go if you can at all afford it.
Best of luck!
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Money will most likely be a factor in us deciding how long we can support a family on one income. Neither of us are making millions, let me tell you. On the other hand, I do have fears about my career. Hence comes the second scary part of the equation.
I am a research scientist without a masters degree. This basically means that my positions so far have been limited to grant money based 2 year guaranteed positions and after that it is up to review depending on funding/project plans. This has made it hard to think about pregnancy because I was losing my job the last time we seriously discussed this and I'm not sure how long my current position will last, but it comes up for review next July, I'm pretty sure, because of the weird July-June 30 fiscal year. I don't have a really good feel whether or not my boss would keep me on part time if that is what I decided to do.
I'm pretty sure that I would go nuts being a stay at home mom unless I could find a good social outlet, but I would like to try at least for 5-6 months, which is a bit beyond the family leave allowance.
My mom and dad worked varying schedules, he being a baker and therefore 2am-11am and she in the evenings 3pm-11pm, which I think worked out really great. However, I don't hope to copy that. I did love having my mom home as a child, though, something I think my sister really missed out on.
How does one really balance family and career?! Guess you just sort of have to find your own way to make it work.
(edit for paragraph clarity)
[ August 08, 2003, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Christy ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*echoes Ophelia about CT being an aunt*
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Any advice from people on how to deal with excessive fluids would be appreciated, too. I'm thinking some kind of double-hose pump thingy might work.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
o_O
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Tell her to cross her legs before sneezing. That usually works for me. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*snort*
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: If you don't already have one, get a dog first. If you can't handle a dog, you can't handle a kid.
If this wasn't a joke, I disagree. Children grow up. Dogs (and cats) are always dogs (and cats). Babies learn how to smile and make little noises and wave their arms around and learn how to crawl and talk and walk. Dogs always remain at a certain level of intelligence.
If it was a joke (because I wouldn't recognise a joke if it was a wet cod and hit me in the face) then I apologise. But I still make my point. Don't get a dog. Get a baby.
(Of course, what do I know? I'm only seventeen, so take me with a pinch of salt.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Not the wife, sillies! Her fluids are perfectly manageable, even after too much tequila. I'm more worried about babies in that regard; in my admittedly limited experience, they spend a great deal of time extruding things.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Oh sure, you say that now. Wait till after she's pushed a baby out of there and then sneezes. You'll know what I'm talking about then.
The best way to deal with a child's excess fluid is to not have a boy. Girls are much easier to deal with. Boys, on the other hand, the second you take the diaper off, will pee in your face.
Oh, and whatever you do, do not, under any circumstances, ever lie down on the bed and do "baby airplane." As soon as you do, they will puke in your mouth.
[ August 08, 2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Kayla ]
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Kayla, sweetie, I don't think you're helping! *laugh*
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Oh, sorry. I didn't know we were supposed to be talking him into it. Just have him go hang around a baby. Who could resist that yummy baby smell?
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
*raises hand*
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
1) Our first child was completely unexpected, and it was wonderful. We passed on finding out the sex and were both pleasently surprised when it was a boy. My wife (also a pharmacist) took off the 6 weeks with pay and took her 3 weeks of vacation on top of that. Because of the year wrapping during her maternity leave, she was also able to use her 3 weeks vacation from the "new" year as well. So, she ended up with 12 weeks of paid leave.
2) By law you can take up to 3 months leave for a healh reason (maternity in this case) without fear of losing your job. Your employer will expect you to come back full time though.
3) Some employers also have "manternity" in which the daddy gets a week off when the baby is born. I did not and had to use vacation time, which was well worth it!
4) The second child was different. My wife only took off 6 weeks plus 2 weeks vacation (we had both changed employers due to a move and had 2 weeks vacation each). My parents watch our children when we are both working. My mom is a retired teacher and we are blessed to have her watch them. If she didn't, our lives would be drastically different. Most likely my wife (who worked part time in my son's first 3 years) would either work part-time or not at all.
5) After having 2 children, I find quite honestly that my dog and cat are much harder to care for than my children. With pets, some things seem like work, but with children, it is a bit different. It feels more like an investment. Feel free to filet that comment.
6) My wife was 32 when our daughter was born, and it took us 4 years of trying. If you are not 30 yet, your odds of conceiving are very good, but after 30, the odds of conception start to decline more dramatically. We thought we would wait 1&1/2 or 2 years in between children and well, you can see what happened. My children are actually 7 years apart!
7) How does one balance family and career? It is the hardest and most rewarding balancing act you will ever do. I personally bury little mementos at work, like fridge drawings, arts and crafts, and little pics here and there. Our family time is very valuable, and we guard it fiercely.
Hope this helps.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Peeing is the least of your baby worries. Trust me.
::goes off to wash the sheets::
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Thanks for sharing, Alucard!
We do have a cat, btw, although I don't find him anything like a child except for when I try to cuddle him and he wriggles away from over-love.
I fear my mother-in-law will come to live with us when we have children, which may be a blessing for us, or not, I'm not so sure -- she's a bit strong-willed. My parents and Tom's dad are 2-3 hours away and will not be available for daycare possibilities. I might perhaps hope that Sara will have an accomodating schedule and we could drop the wee-one off there -- which I'd love to do, but that is a bit too much to ask and hope for, methinks. *smile*
Yes, you all have helped, thank you. It's nice to hear what has worked for others and I always love to hear about your beautiful children anyways!
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
*laugh* Tick, shhhh!
Perhaps we could send Tom over to you for training? I don't think he's even ever changed a diaper.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
There are some people who might regard having never changed a diaper as some kind of lack. For my part, I consider having nearly made it to thirty years of age without being required to service another human's waste a major personal victory.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Ok, now I have to be non-discouraging.
My own personal psychosis aside, I think Tom and Christy are as close to what would-be parents should be as anyone I know. So, in all probability, having kids will turn out to be a wonderful thing for them and for their children.
Tom, I have you beat. I am 34, and have never in my life changed a diaper. Unlike you, my amazing streak will go with me to my grave unbroken. Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Don't be so sure about that Slash, we do make house visits! Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
quote:We do have a cat
So, wanna hear about how my cat peed on my feet every night for the last three months of my pregnancy?
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
*is just happy in general for Tom and Christy*
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Christy & Tom- I'm so excited for you! This is a big step that shows how content and you are with your life and each other. I'm very happy for you!
I have a tremendous amount of my self-worth invested in the feedback I get from my work. And I work with wonderful people. Yet, when it came to leaving John, the very thought scared me. For me, the decision was made when I found a wonderful daycare situation.
The transition back into work was gradual. After 2 weeks I would go in for 2 hours a day. I was feeding him breast-milk only, so the gradual lengthening of my time away coincided somewhat with my ability to pump enough milk for the time I was away. This process also allowed my separation anxiety to abate gradually. By the time John was 12 weeks old, I was back to 40 hrs a week.
But I missed my time with him. So I started cheating. I would wake him up as soon as I got home and play with him. We'd spend 4-6 hours every night just being together. By the time he was 3 monthes old, he'd take a 4 hour nap with the babysitter and would spend all his cute, happy baby time awake with my husband and me.
To this day, both my kids are night-owls. I still work and I still spend 4-6 hours a night with them. It works for me. Makes me feel like I have the best of both worlds.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I have Slash and Tom both beat. I am currently 36 and have never changed a diaper. Of course, this will change in about a month, so you both will have a chance to pass me.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Not the wife, sillies! Her fluids are perfectly manageable, even after too much tequila.
Tom, I'm so sorry. (*wince) Poor Christy.
quote:I might perhaps hope that Sara will have an accomodating schedule and we could drop the wee-one off there -- which I'd love to do, but that is a bit too much to ask and hope for, methinks. *smile*
No, not at all! If things work out well, next year should be the most flexible yet, and my little minio-- ooh, er, new friend would be most welcome for indoctri-- er, playtime.
(You couldn't hide him/her forever, you know. I know where you live. )
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Tom, Christy- from my virtual observances of your attitudes, I think you'll be great parents.
Tom-- babies don't start to poop and pee really smelly stuff until the fourth or fifth month. Longer if they are nursed rather than bottle fed. It's still gross-- but it isn't smelly until AFTER you've developed a strong emotional bond. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Just for the record, I had both my kids after age 30, and I never had any trouble getting pregnant.
**Ela**
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Oh, this has GOT to be the coolest thread *EVER*. I'm so thrilled that you and Tom are thinking it may be time!
For your questions...no, I don't think you ever feel 100% like you're ready, not even with subsequent children.
For time off work, there was never any question that I would go back to work almost immediately after having my first child. So I went back when my son was 6 weeks old, which, because there was never any question, I think made it easier. The first few days were particularly hard, but after that, I got used to it. I didn't know anything about babies, and knew a lot about my job, so there was a lot of comfort in working during the day, and being mentored by the 'sitter when I went to go pick him up. I learned a LOT from her.
Nine years later, welcoming my daughter Rayne, I took as much time as possible off, the maximum allowable by the Family Leave Act to keep my benefits paid by the company, which was 12 weeks. When I went back, I only worked 32 hours per week, which is the minimum I could work and keep my benefits. I still only work those hours, which allows me to be taxi-mom in the morning. I work from home, so I kept my daughter "at work" with me until she was a little over a year old. When she started walking, it became impossible to continue having her at work with me all day -- I wasn't getting any work done -- so now she goes to daycare in the morning, and stays home with me in the afternoon. I *really* didn't want to put her in daycare, but it has ended up working out very well.
When I first started working from home, I discovered some things. First, I like being at home all day. It took getting used to, but I *really* like it. I could be very happy *not* having a job, and being at home. Second, I learned that my son, in first grade at the time, needed me more than I thought he did. I thought, being school age, that he really didn't need me as much as when he'd been a toddler. Wrong. That's still true. And I'm coming to the idea that it's possible he will need me even more, just to be around and available, when he hits his teens. These discoveries have led me to believe that maybe working at a job isn't so necessary for me anymore. So if and when my company finally folds and I'm out of a job, I probably won't try to find work.
I think it's really an individual choice...you figure out what works for your family, largely by experimentation.
I'm thrilled for you, and can't wait to hear that you're pregnant! Having a 15-month-old makes me very tenderhearted for new babies, especially if they belong to people I just know are going to be fantastic parents. Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
A coworker of mine recommended that I look into daycare as soon as possible since there can often be waiting lists. Several of you have mentioned sitters and/or leaving your child with individuals. How did you find them? Although, CT, if it would work out, I can't think of anyone I'd rather leave my little minion to be indoctrinated by.
I would love for one of us to be able to work from home, but I know that would never be me. Can't really set up a chemistry lab in your kitchen. I think the gradual going back to work would really be nice, and/or perhaps a not quite full time schedule.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Best of luck, Christy and Tom! And, no, you'll never feel quite ready to have kids. (Actually, I have 3, the oldest of whom is 9, and I sometimes wonder if I am really ready to be a mommy. )
I had kid #1 while I was in college. I took off the quarter the baby was due, and took 2 classes (instead of my usual 4) the quarter after. Three days a week instead of 5. With baby in tow. It actually worked out pretty well -- when the quarter started, she was 5 weeks old, and she was about 3 months when it was over. So nursing her right before class and tucking her into a Snugli for an hour worked fairly well -- and I sat near a door, just in case.
She stayed with a babysitter when I had a midterm.
She was going to be too old to take to school the next quarter -- 6 months. So I took the fall quarter off (and took no summer classes), to try the SAHM thing, and decide what to do.
I have a great deal of admiration for SAHMs. But I discovered that my tendency was to stay at home -- I couldn't seem to manage to consistently make it to the park, etc. So I slowly lost my mind . . . I felt bad for my friends -- calling me guaranteed at least an hour on the phone, because I was absolutely starved for adult conversation.
So, I found a great day-care provider. Someone who I knew personally for years, who watched kids in her home, with a couple of assistants. All three of my kids went to her when they were little, and I have recommended her to many friends.
IMO, that is the best way to find a daycare provider -- whether you are looking for in-your-home care or not -- ask for friends' references. And definitely check them out beforehand, in person. Even though I knew the woman I sent my kids to quite well, I sat in a couple times before I left my little one with her, and it really helped that first week, really knowing that my kid was in a good place.
quote: Can't really set up a chemistry lab in your kitchen.
Well, I like to think that all good kitchens are chemistry labs, but hopefully not the kind that OSHA has to approve. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Can't really set up a chemistry lab in your kitchen.
Shame on you, Christy-- haven't you ever read the Wrinkle in Time series? The mom in those books had exactly that-- a working lab set up in the kitchen.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Of course, her husband also managed to get himself captured by an evil brain, her daughter wound up spawing children who got inevitably featured in terrible romantic novels, her twin boys kept reliving stories from the Bible, and her youngest son talked to microscopic unicorns. So maybe it's all for the best. Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
*snort*
I know you two will be fantastic parents
My hat is off to you!
i don't actually wear a hat. but that's really the only phrase that graemlins works with. except perhaps, "Excuse me, madam, would you like to waltz with me on the veranda?" Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
quote:Of course, her husband also managed to get himself captured by an evil brain, her daughter wound up spawing children who got inevitably featured in terrible romantic novels, her twin boys kept reliving stories from the Bible, and her youngest son talked to microscopic unicorns. So maybe it's all for the best.
[nitpick]The unicorns weren't microscopic. The microscopic things and the unicorn were from two separate books. [/nitpick]
~Jane~
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I see no problem with any of that, except for the grandaughter's terrible romantic novels. . .
"House Like a Lotus" really WAS terrible fiction, wasn't it. . .
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Hmmm, that was one we missed... Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
First, Mrs. Murry’s lab was not in the kitchen, it was adjacent to the kitchen with a door between them. The twins didn’t like it when she cooked in the lab.
Second, I liked A House Like a Lotus. An Acceptable Time, on the other hand . . .
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
*is getting impatient
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
(*thinks Tom is a real slacker)
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
What you expect a pregnancy announcement that quick?!
I could make all kinds of crude Tom and Christy jokes here...
AJ
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Ahem.
I have priorities.
I have certain needs.
One of them is to cuddle Christy's baby right now. Logic does not play into this.
You see, Christy and Tom are going to be the best parents ever, and I am going to be the best Aunt. Who could wait for that?
[Ah, well, actually I do know why I'm getting impatient -- we had a little 2-yr old who went to have a brain tumor resected, and he's not going to survive, and we're just hoping he'll wake up enough to get off the ventilator and spend some more time with his parents. It's a down, down day, and I need to be around happy bouncing babies.
You see, if the stars align right, I just may have me very own littlun (technically not mine, but who cares about technicalities anyway) to play with most any night.
*foot tapping impatiently ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
" Can't really set up a chemistry lab in your kitchen. "
This has already been covered... but... cooking IS chemistry... and thermodynamics
And CT, don't set this thread up for ridiculous innuendo, please? Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Sorry but I don't buy the "cooking is chemistry argument." Steve tries it on me all the time, but then when I start to cook something he has to come in and "tweak" it to make it palatable for his own consumption. The artistic component in cooking is much higher than the scientific. I, as a chemical engineer, am absolutely lousy at cooking though I can run chemistry experiments just fine.
AJ
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Yeah, its art too...
Ok, ok, BAKING is chemistry.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Paul: *innocent look
See here, I have no idea what you are talking about.
No, really, I just want a baby! I really, really want a baby. I think my ovaries are finally kicking in with a vengence, and the whole CT-let thing just isn't going to happen, so I've pinned my longings on my Hatrack family to provide.
Heyyyy ... hmmm ... so, Paul, are you dating anyone? You know, there are a lot of benefits to having children exactly at your age, whatever it is.
*temples fingers expectantly
Yes, yes ...
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
That is it! That is why I can make carrot cake and cookies but suck at everything else but macNcheese!
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
We have a 13 month old that is as cute as pie visiting us if you would like to make a run down to Rolling Meadows, IL. I think mom and dad are taking him to the zoo today.
AJ
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Interesting proposal, CT...
I think I'm ready to try making babies... but the raising them, I might need a couple years before I'm ready Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Be careful what you offer, AJ. I'm not too far away from Illinois.
(*logs onto MapQuest with a special gleam in her eye)
[ August 14, 2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
(Didn't see this thread until now...)
STOP YOU FOOLS!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO! GO BACK, GO BACK, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. TOO LATE....
Eh, um, what I mean is, what a wonderful idea.
Seriously, having a kid is harder than anything you've ever done before. Anything.
So line up all the help you can get right now. Auntie CT? You are one of the sweetest, most wonderful people on Hatrack. Christy, Tom, get a contract from her, in writing, that she'll come over at least once a week for the first six months after Junior is born.
Any relatives in the area? Line them up now. Move in a few if possible.
Children are absolutely overwhelming, which means you are right, Christy: there is never a good time to have them. So once your life is somewhat stable, you might as well suck it up and go for it. It will never get better enough to justify it later.
But be aware that it will completely change your life. Everything becomes that much harder. Even just going to the movies for an evening becomes a major planning event. (Do you have a babysitter? How about a back-up? Is there enough supplies in the house? Phone numbers to contact you. Emergency numbers in case the sitter can't contact you. Etc.) Multiply that for things like work, vacations, etc. You have to fight for everything that you do.
Will you be happier with children? Hard to say. Debbie and I often think that we'd be happier without Joshua.
There's just one problem. We wouldn't give him up for the world. And if we hadn't had him, he never would have been.
So good luck, guys. You're in for a hellava ride.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
CT you are welcome any time. The baby will only be here through Monday though!
AJ
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
quote:STOP YOU FOOLS!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO! GO BACK, GO BACK, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. TOO LATE....
I respect Andrew and will listen to his authoritative warnings.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Wow, my thread exploded! I had given it up for lost.
I have already reminded CT about the technicalities of baby making. Sheesh, she's the doctor and all!
Andrew, everything in my logical mind tells me that I really don't want to have children. That I enjoy my peaceful home and lots of sleep. I know you can never go back. But every time I see a little bundle of joy pass, something in me nags that reluctant part that it is all worth it. *grin*
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
Yeah, in the end, it is probably worth it. There is nothing like the welling of love you feel when you look at that little child you helped to create.
It's just that kids are so very demanding, it's hard to remember sometimes along the way.
(And don't forget the stress that comes along with it. If there are any little issues you and Tom have still to iron out, take care of them now. They're liable to become big issues after the baby comes!
(Oh, yes, and take that trip to Hawaii NOW! You'll never have it this easy again.)
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
did anyone else but me find it ironic that this thread was sitting on "69" as a post count for so long?
AJ bad AJ, BAAAD AJ (pennance for this post)
[ August 14, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
quote:Andrew, everything in my logical mind tells me that I really don't want to have children. That I enjoy my peaceful home and lots of sleep. I know you can never go back. But every time I see a little bundle of joy pass, something in me nags that reluctant part that it is all worth it. *grin*
Am I the only one who finds such a thought terrifying? That hormones can exert such control over us that we ignore all rationality and logic? That at the bottom line, we are nothing but preprogammed machines of self replication?
Is that really all there is? How bleak.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Well, obviously not. I mean if we were, the thought of 69 wouldn't have intrigued AJ so much.
(Joins AJ in the pennance box.)
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Oh sheesh, Slash.
For people who want/don't want children that's not "all they are." It just happens to be PART of what they are. And that hormonal desire is most assuredly coupled with positive experiences with children so that this desire is nurtured instead of killed. Unlike your experiences, which were apparently all bad due to your younger siblings and your father's metamorphosis in reaction to having them.
Sometimes you're so black and white.
[ August 14, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
If you aren't thinking of 69 when you see it, I'd say something is more wrong then if you DO...
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
And sometimes, Ralphie, your popularity whoring blinds you to subtle points.
My post as written, is pointing out that Christy is saying, "Using logic, I see no reason to have a kid now, but my hormones are trumping that."
That is what I find scary. Hormone trumping logic. In the case of baby making for a nice couple, maybe it turns out to be a good thing. But hormone trumping is also what leads to 40 year old men going on an infidelity spree to prove their manhood.
Hormones over logic scares me, good or bad outcome.
So stop trying to be everybodies best bud, and ease off, chica.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Slash, have you considered that hormones are not all that is at issue here? As far as I can tell, Christy may assume it's hormones, and you almost certainly have, but it wasn't actually stated, and it isn't necessarily true. Perhaps it's subconscious logic. She sees others who are happy. Her collection of societal memes have told her that personal freedoms are (or should be) more important than having a child, but there's no clear cut all-inclusive logic that would dictate that, without some unstated/arguable assumptions, is there?
Logic has its limitations, as do hormones. Anyone who relies on only one of them (or even believes that he does) may not have as complete an understanding of reality as he thinks.
--Pop
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
I was making a general point, using Christy's sentence, not judging Christy's personal motivations.
I should know better than to make a general observation in a thread that is so deeply personal. My bad.
*Kicks self out of thread*
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I understand, Slash, and I was making a general counterpoint, using your comment on Christy's sentence.
I don't even disagree that it's scary to think of hormones trumping logic. But I also think it's scary to think that logic trumps all, because (a) logic doesn't apply in all situations, and (b) it frequently, if not always, "assumes facts not in evidence."
I'm willing to either drop this or move it elsewhere, but I didn't think it had crossed lines yet.
--Pop
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
quote:And sometimes, Ralphie, your popularity whoring blinds you to subtle points.
Sometimes you are very black and white. I don't think this is a slam, though sometimes I believe it clouds your thinking. Calling me a popularity whore can be nothing but a slam, whether or not you believe it's clouding my thinking. I don't really think I deserved that.
quote:My post as written, is pointing out that Christy is saying, "Using logic, I see no reason to have a kid now, but my hormones are trumping that."
That is what I find scary. Hormone trumping logic. In the case of baby making for a nice couple, maybe it turns out to be a good thing. But hormone trumping is also what leads to 40 year old men going on an infidelity spree to prove their manhood.
Hormones over logic scares me, good or bad outcome.
So stop trying to be everybodies best bud, and ease off, chica.
I can't argue that hormones trump logic, because I know they do for me all the time. But we've had the conversation where we came to the conclusion that the thing that makes us human is the ability to desire something that is inappropriate and then CHOOSE not to fulfill the desire, instead of simply going with instinct.
Because I've had this conversation with you, your sentence: "Is that really all there is? How bleak," seemed to me to be a statement that I suspect you don't really believe, but used as bait and a deliberately black-and-white bait, at that.
I can disagree with you without you slamming me. It doesn't mean that I all of a sudden don't love you or look up to you or that I'm trying to kick down the Kahuna in an effort to take his place. It just means I don't agree with you.
Okay?
[ August 14, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I love siblings fighting.
Makes me really glad I only had one kid. Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Uh oh...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
This is nothing. My older brother and I have pulled knives on each other.
Added: Did that squick people out? We were nine and ten and cleaning the kitchen, if that helps.
[ August 14, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
Having children is never a logical choice! I mean really, you take all the freedom's you enjoy before kids, the money you have pre-kids and it doesn't make any logical sense to add a tornado to the orderly life you've led! I think the hormonal response is programmed into us so we keep our species going
Have children when you are young. The older you get the harder it gets to keep up with them Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
I just keep telling myself that I'm just following a family tradition.
After all, my parents had children. And so did their parent, and their parents, and their parents...
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
AndrewR:
Slash: Note that I retain my logic in the midst of emotion. Yes, I want a baby, and I want a baby badly, and I want a baby now ... but I want Christy's baby.
Ah, the lifelong pleasures of a training in philosophy ...
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
*laugh* There's logic if I ever saw any, CT.
I've been trying to think of a good response to Slash, and I wanted to say that I don't think he is out of place, or feel that he was criticizing my personal logic for wanting children. Yet, still I'd like to explain.
I think there's some logic to it, albeit some of it may be hormonal, but there is a definite logical desire on my part to bring a child into the world that will hopefully combine the best aspects of Tom and myself and continue on to see what the future brings when we are no longer able. In some ways, too, it is a desire to see the world the way a child does again, to live childhood through their eyes. In some ways it is a desire to be needed in a new way now that I am comfortable in the support and love of my husband. How does one compare these desires to financial stability, time for self, and the strong bond that I have already made with Tom that will undergo a change? I'm not sure, but I'd like to find out.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
[Brainy Smurf voice]
I was right! I was riiight!
[/Brainy Smurf voice]
I love you, Slash. You know that. And you can hit me if it'll make you feel better, ok?
--Pop
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Every single one of us is the result of an unbroken line of fertility, stretching back to the dawn of life. That is kind of a powerful thing.
Even as a child, I was always good with the younger ones. I worked in my church nursery. I always ended up playing 'mom' to the younger kids on the playground. I was the most popular baby sitter in my church.
I never thought I wouldn't have kids, even if I didn't marry, I was going to work in an orphanage in Brazil. One way or another, kids were in the cards for me.
I took all the leave I could after my first one was born. There was less of it than I had hoped because I was put on bed rest at 30 weeks. After my paid leave was gone, I took the full 12 weeks unpaid leave. Then, I went back to work and petitioned for part time while my mother looked after him. Part time turned out to be 32 hours a week instead of 40. Not a big change.
My mom's health went south and I had to put him in a daycare/preschool. I was lucky, there. He had great caregivers who really loved him (and even came to see us when he wasn't going there anymore) and I really believed in the place. It was still hard. Ron was travelling (gone for 3 to 5 days and nights each week) and we both missed him.
I had no freedom at all. My whole life was work. During the day, mind-numbing, soul-stealing bureaucrasy, at nightcooking, feeding and bathing the baby, coaxing him to sleep so I could clean up. Sometimes he'd wake up before I even got to bed myself. I would sometimes take him to the daycare for an hour or two on my day off, so I could do the shopping without having to stop to change a diaper or clean up spit-up, etc. Once, I took him to day care for an hour so I could have lunch with my mother without worrying about him crying the whole time, wanting to be held so that we had to take turns eating, or again with the spit-up.
He grew older and it got easier in some ways and harder in others. Then we moved so Ron could have a job that lety him be home everynight, and I chose not to transfer my job. He would be making more money, and we'd be close to HIS family, so I thought I might have a little help. Then we started trying for number two.
So I was 7 months pregnant when we moved. Healthy pregnancy, healthy baby, healthy toddler. Life was full, and I was okay. When Liam was about a year old, I weaned him. That, for some reason, was when the depression hit. It was awful. It was HELL. Liam and Robert were both so active that taking them anywhere by myself was worse than a forced march. And I didn't have anyone to turn to, really. Ron sometimes took extra time off work.
I finally talked to my doctor, and we saw a pattern. I was really skinny and hyperactive before Robert. After I weaned Robert, I had a brief bout of depression that passed after a week or two. But then I was a LOT more relaxed, a lot less hyper, than I had EVER been. The first baby reset my 'normal' operating style.
The second baby did, too, but instead of just being calmer, I was depressed. So depressed that I felt the boys would be better off in daycare, or maby better off without me. I tried to think of ways to kill myself that would be least traumatic for those I loved (and not make too big a mess for anyone to clean up). I couldn't stand to look at myself.
I took the kids to the playground, and forced myself to play with them. We did some learning games and flashcards, we did workbooks together. But my heart wasn't in it. I knew I was supposed to feel something, I just didn't. I would cry after fun outings because I just didn't enjoy them and I didn't know why. I was afraid the boys would think I was mad at them. I wasn't.
I worked really hard at keeping their lives happy. Ron enrolled me in some art classes, then Tai Chi. It was fun, but sometimes I'd skip off and go to a movie by myself. Sometimes it was okay, and I'd tell myself it wasn't real, that I was being silly. And sometimes I felt very, very trapped.
I'm on medication now. Zoloft, a pretty low dose. I have lots to do. I have friends in the community. I work out, etc. I have myself back again, thanks to a combination of chemicals I may need for the rest of my life. I'm happy, the boys are happy.
I enjoy my family. Everything the boys do seems magical. Not a day goes by that they don't make me laugh until I nearly pop. Life is soo good.
But a couple of months ago, we had a pregnancy scare, and we were both terrified. What if the new baby reset my speed even lower? We were not sure we could face that. Turns out we didn't have to.
The thing is, pregnancy changes you. It changes your life, your responsibilities, even your body. But it can also change you in ways you don't expect. I'm not as psycho as some of the stories you hear, but I've been through a LOT in getting to the place where I'm happy with who I am.
If I had it to do over again, I would. I can't imagine a world without Robert and Liam. They are so bright and special to me.
I am, however, permanently different than I was (not so bad, as I was kind of hyper, impulsive and wee bit hard to control before having kids). Everything was pretty good after the first one. I was so much calmer, more stable and relaxed. I was sure I wanted a house full of 'em. I sort of still do, but it might not be as easy as changing my dose or something, if I have another. I value what I have to much to risk it, I think.
I know you and Tom will be wonderful parents, and I honestly don't mean to rain on your parade. I love my kids. My life is great! I have a wonderful guy who stood by me when times were bad. Two happy, smart, picturesque boys .
But when you have yours, pay close attention to your mood. Don't shrug it off, or tell yourself it's nothing if your hormones start to drag you down. I thought I could fight it by being 'rational' by getting exercise, by making myself do things that I should have liked doing. Even charity work and community involvement. I just ended up getting so run down that I caught viral meningitis. The only thing that gave me back my life was a little blue pill.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
:: bump ::
I was just looking at some of the earliest threads that hadn't been purged, came across this, and thought that it was an artifact that some of the old timers (Tom and Christy not least among them) might find interesting to read.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: AndrewR:
Slash: Note that I retain my logic in the midst of emotion. Yes, I want a baby, and I want a baby badly, and I want a baby now ... but I want Christy's baby.
Ah, the lifelong pleasures of a training in philosophy ...
This is especially funny to read when recalling the fact that CT wandered off with both Christy's and my children at the farmer's market during CarrieCon a couple years back. Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener:
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: AndrewR:
Slash: Note that I retain my logic in the midst of emotion. Yes, I want a baby, and I want a baby badly, and I want a baby now ... but I want Christy's baby.
Ah, the lifelong pleasures of a training in philosophy ...
This is especially funny to read when recalling the fact that CT wandered off with both Christy's and my children at the farmer's market during CarrieCon a couple years back.
Oh, goodness, I remember that! Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
The result of this thread just signed up for Kindergarten!
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I knew no good could come of talking about stuff on the internet!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I was just looking at some of the earliest threads that hadn't been purged, came across this, and thought that it was an artifact that some of the old timers (Tom and Christy not least among them) might find interesting to read.
Thanks, Noem. That was fun.
Too bad Tom can't make that particular brag any longer. Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
As a young man in his twenties, kids seem to be like dogs who slowly learn to talk.... if your laughing you think thats a joke, if your afraid then you are also in your early twenties and consider contraceptives as Gods material will on the subject.
My cousin has the only two kids in the family this generation, and they rock. Shes a stay at home mom who babysits any kids who dont teach her own bad habits. Her husband will do just about any job as many hours as you'll give him, working class sucks with two little kids at home, but he can always bring home free chicken from KFC! I'll admit a bit of jealousy, that it must be nice to have that bond with a happy healthy child (especially when I fear that mine would attack me while I slept) and the rewards of being a stay at home mom seem to be more than enough for my cousin. Atleast until theyre both in school, I think what Ela did was very sensitive and considerate in the long run even if they had to do without somethings.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
*laugh* You honor me. Thanks for resurrecting this, Noemon! It seems so long and yet not so very long ago.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
By the way, Christy, when I was at Worldcon last week I kept seeing this woman who looked startlingly like you would if you had grey hair. It was kind of disconcerting, actually.
I asked her if she was related to you, but she didn't recognize the name.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You probably needed her maiden name. Christy has geeky dopplegangers all over Canada.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
As an update: Sophie is now in seventh grade, and she's the oldest of three.
I have become alarmingly blase about fluids.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Lol.
Agreed on the fluids thing. Meh.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
And may I say what wonderful parents so many Hatrackers have become since this thread was started. I've met a bunch of kids of a particular vintage related to the Hatrack timeline, and they are awesome people.
It's also pretty cool to see how great the older kids of Hatrackers have turned out. We've got marriages among the former teen kids, college students from among the former preteens and even some of the former toddlers.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
).![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(Yeah, sure, I know you have a sister, Christy, but I will make an awesome aunt.)![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
It's a down, down day, and I need to be around happy bouncing babies. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
bad AJ, BAAAD AJ (pennance for this post)![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)