During this past Fourth of July, we had a family reunion here in Tucson. My mom came and was expecting to stay with me. The problem was that she was bringing her boyfriend, and expecting to share a room with him. That wasn't kosher with me, so I told her they would have to have seperate rooms, or stay somewhere else. My mom just muttered something about staying in a hotel and the topic was changed. (I gotta tell ya, I was kind of hurt. It was only going to be three days. But whatever.)
Later Mom mentioned again that she would be staying with us, and acted as if we had never had the previous conversation. She talked like they would be sharing a room. I corrected her and once again she mentioned a hotel.
The third time this happened I finally told her to just forget staying with us, and I took back the invitation. It was very hard for me to say this but I felt like it was my home and she was trying to take advantage of me. They ended up in a hotel much to the joy of my hubby, who doesn't like my mom anyway.
Anyway, tonight we are having one of our semi-annual scary video game parties. Everytime we do this, my husband invites his guy friends over and we stay up all night playing Silent Hill or something similar. Truthfully, I only get invited because it's my house. This time, tho, I wanted to have a girl over to diluted the flow of testosterone so I invited a pal of mine. The problem is, later I realized that the girl I invited is the girlfriend of one of the guys that's coming over. They are still living with parents and were probably dying for a chance like this. I tried to make sure they knew that no hanky-panky was allowed, but I can't watch them all the time and I'm worried that I'm being a hypocrite by letting them "spend the night together" in my house. Does this sound totally dumb? Should I even be worried about this? I don't want to commit hypocrisy.
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
If you make them agree to sleep in seperate rooms, I don't think it's a problem. If they refuse to and you let them stay anyway, then I think you owe your mother an apology. Just my $.02.
[ August 09, 2003, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: T. Analog Kid ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I would argue that it's not equivalent hypocrisy if you don't give them a bedroom. When my wife and I were dating, her parents were so paranoid that I actually couldn't accompany her into her bedroom alone for any reason, even if we were just picking something up or she were showing me a collection of books; the door had to stay open at all times.
I found this absolutely baffling, especially because we found plenty of other, more convenient opportunities to do things they would have disapproved of. Usually it took longer than we would have planned to stay in her bedroom -- so unless they disapproved of a few stolen kisses, the whole "no guys in your bedroom" restriction was essentially pointless.
There's a distinction between that and actually being permitted to stay the night in her room, of course. I had no illusions on that score, either.
[ August 09, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by TwosonPaula (Member # 5511) on :
No bedroom, but what if they sneak off somewhere? GAAAH it stinks always feeling like I'm responsible for everyone else!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You're not responsible for anyone else. They will screw like bunnies with or without your approval.
If you want to come off like a completely repressed and suspiciously uptight person, however, you can lecture them about your feelings on the matter and beg them not to partake of such forbidden fruit on your property; if they respect you, they'll respect your wishes on that score.
Posted by TwosonPaula (Member # 5511) on :
I AM completely repressed and suspiciously uptight. Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
How about you tell your friends that you feel the need to dictate their morality to them since they're clearly not intelligent enough to do so themselves, and maybe then they won't feel the need to come over to your house in the first place?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hey, now, that's a bit harsh. I wouldn't want people smoking pot in my house, for example; I'm not going to pass judgment on someone's right to set rules of behavior on their own property.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I think you can relax. If all they’re after is a way to have sex without their parents finding out they’ll tell the parents they’re at your party and go somewhere else so they can be alone. If they show up at the party, it probably means they want to play scary video games and hang out with friends.
[ August 09, 2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
What Tom said. Twoson, your mom and your husband's friends probably have plenty of opportunity to do whatever. Even if they stayed in seperate rooms while staying at your place, I can tell you that that's sure as hell not going to stop them from getting up at 3 am while the rest of the house is asleep for a quicky. So, they don't need your help in the matter to live moral lives and you can't prevent them from engaging in 'immoral' behavior while in your house. Thus, what you're doing is really achieving nothing but creating bad blood between you and your mom and you and your husband's friends.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't have scruples. I'm not saying you should bow to every demand of guests in your house. I guess what I'm saying is that there are some moral battles that need to be fought and some that don't. I don't see that you need to draw a line in the sand in the two instances that you describe because doing so serves no good purpose other than to create discord and bad feelings.
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
Tom: There's a difference between "not in my house" and "it's my responsibility to prevent them from sinning".
I mean, it's one thing to say, "I don't condone premarital sex, so my conscience wouldn't allow me to provide other people with a place to engage in it." It's quite another to feel responsible for preventing your friends--and your mother!--from engaging in it. I'm fine with the former, but the latter just drips with self-righteousness. I quote,
quote:GAAAH it stinks always feeling like I'm responsible for everyone else!
Maybe my comment was harsh (from the persepctive of the observer who shares my morals) or rude (from the perspective of the observer who doesn't), but I stand by it—maybe Paula's friends don't have any sense of self-respect, but I know I wouldn't willingly inflict msyelf on the hospitality of someone who felt it was his or her god-given duty to protect me from myself.
[ August 09, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: ae ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Miss Manners has what I think is the ideal solution for this problem. Put them in separate rooms and ignore any nocternal traffic. You are not called upon to prevent others from exercising their moral agency. You are only called upon not to encourage them to choose wrongly. No armed guards are needed, nor constant vigilance. Your expectation is expressed by your room assignments. If they choose not to follow your expectations, you should not try to stop them. They are free moral agents, and the sin of imposing your will upon them by force is greater than any sin they might commit.
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
ak:
quote:They are free moral agents, and the sin of imposing your will upon them by force is greater than any sin they might commit.
Or, no more than equal to it. Posted by TwosonPaula (Member # 5511) on :
Yeah, we decided she'll sleep in my room with me, and the guys will crash out in the living room. You guys are right, I am being neurotic. It's not that I'm so concerned that they'll screw up, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't commiting an injustice to my mom.
Posted by TwosonPaula (Member # 5511) on :
By the way, ak, there's no way I could force my will upon them, since if they don't like how I feel they can go elsewhere. I just give them the choice, my way or the highway.
[ August 09, 2003, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: TwosonPaula ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yeah, Godric, that's what I meant.
Paula, I would not even go so far as to explicitly state my expectations, I guess, unless these people were my very very close friends. But yes, I agree with your conclusion. You can't stop them but you don't have to encourage them.
I don't actually feel like you have to treat your mother the same as your friends to be fair to her, either. Just as your relationship to her is very different, so can your treatment of her be. For me this would probably mean I accepted her as she was, including accepting her choices, even if I would not do the same for casual friends.
I had a cohabitating couple living in my house for a while and it really did bother me. I hated the thought that I was making it easier for them to harm themselves. My expectation at the start was that they would get married right away, immediately after they moved in. When they didn't, I considered demanding that they marry, but decided my stewardship didn't extend that far. I finally decided they were married in spirit and by common law, since they'd been together for six years, and so I quit worrying about it.
I'm rather heterodox, though. I know I'm unusual in that.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Oh, man. Your post was funny, ak. Praise Bob I am so amoral.
"Mr. Saxon, can we shoot up in your bathroom while summoning Nartholep back into this plane in order to destroy the world?"
"Ha, ha. Of course not, Timmy. Use the living room and don't make a mess."
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Wow, Stormy, and I thought I was too lax about stuff! You make me feel better.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
How are you going to keep Natrholep from messing up the rest of the house.....???
That's what I'd like to see, you scolding a demon because he is dripping ichor on your new, teflon-coated carpet....lol!
Kwea
[ August 10, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
It's "Nyarlathotep".
Posted by TwosonPaula (Member # 5511) on :
Actually they are very close friends...my husband's best friend, not to mention, his cousin.
Things worked out fine.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
ae, please tell me you had to look that up. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I certainly HOPE no one needs to look up Nyarlathotep, any more than it's necessary to check spellings on Cthulhu, Shub-Niggurath, Hastur, and the Yuggoth. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
...and TomDavidson.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Some of us haven't memorized the Necronomicon yet, Mr. smartie Tom Davidson. :/
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Stop! Beware, for invoking T*mD*v*ds*n without the proper safeguards is to invite the daemon himself into your forum! Soon you will be bombarded with pithy posts full of sarcasm, cynicism, and little smilie faces of doom! Before you can draw a breath he will have filled every thread with witty and concise posts before you can finish typing your own rambling response which struggles to say in 200 words what he already said in twenty.
Beware! I only pray I'm not too late...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, I can't help wondering what Lovecraft would have thought of the Internet.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
This time, tho, I wanted to have a girl over to diluted the flow of testosterone so I invited a pal of mine. The problem is, later I realized that the girl I invited is the girlfriend of one of the guys that's coming over. They are still living with parents and were probably dying for a chance like this. I tried to make sure they knew that no hanky-panky was allowed, but I can't watch them all the time and I'm worried that I'm being a hypocrite by letting them "spend the night together" in my house. Does this sound totally dumb? Should I even be worried about this? I don't want to commit hypocrisy.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
You make me feel better.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)