It seems like the thing that's most desperately needed in Iraq right now is for their infrastructure to be rebuilt.
I'm an engineer and I'm thinking of getting a job doing that. I have experience in construction and I've worked with European style drawing conventions before. I'm willing to learn Arabic (have already started studying) and am fascinated by foreign cultures and people. I'm a xenophile, and would enjoy very much getting to know the middle east a bit better. I feel like I could probably contribute over there in a way that perhaps few engineers could. As an American, I'd like to do what I can to follow through with what we've done over there so far. We've made a good start by getting rid of that awful regime, but the long slow arduous part, the rebuilding, has just begun. I'd like to help see that through.
It will be great experience for me. I see this sort of thing as my job. I'm not afraid of being shot at or blown up, though of course I'll try to avoid those things will all due alacrity. I'm somewhat concerned over whether I'm healthy enough for the physically arduous parts, but then again it's government contract work. How hard can it be?
I'm taking time to think it through very carefully before I make a final decision, so I want to give everyone a chance to talk me out of it. What do you guys think?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Well if you can land a job in this I think it'd be great! Have you checked out what corporations are being hired to do the rebuilding? That's probably be the best place to start.
I'm not sure I'd enjoy working in a country as alien to me as Iraq, but building up, basically from nothing, has got to be a thrilling (and fulfilling) experience!
Hobbes Posted by filetted (Member # 5048) on :
AK,
I think an injection of pragmatic idealism into the root-basis of historically-burdened arm-chair cynicism is admirable.
mike
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
(worries)
It sounds like a great experience, and you should do it... But still...
(worries)
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Might want to let things quieten down a bit more first.
Right now, as they try to repair some infrastructure, they're running into regular sabotage attempts. They bring a power plant back online and someone blows up a transformer. A water treatment plant cranks up production and someone drops a bomb in a sewer line somewhere else.
Kinda rough, but it looks like there's never a day with nothing to do. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yeah, so far I've heard about Halliburton, and their subsidiary Brown & Root. I plan to contact B&R but actually all the major U.S. engineering firms are likely to have some bids out, given the amount there is to be done.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Wow, ak, how cool would that be? Absolutely, do it!
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Also, if that doesn't work out there's always Engineers Without Borders. Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
ak, from what I hear, based on deadlines, other companies besides Halliburton are dropping out left and right and of the billion or so up for grabs in contracts, less than 200 million is actually feasible for other companies to do. (From what I understand, bid winners won't be announced till mid October and much of the work needs to be done by December 31. The work that can be delayed till March 31 is what is up for grabs.
Of course, I don't think much infrastructure is involved in this, unless there is nothing to the infrastructure but oil. I don't understand what's what, but here is a yahoo news story about it.
Good luck, however it turns out!
[ August 11, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Kayla ]
Posted by Ryan Hart (Member # 5513) on :
Rebuilding Iraq is a noble cause. I commend you for wanting to get involved. I always say that getting beat by america is good for the economy. Just look at Germany, or Japan. Maybe Iraq will become a moderate muslim nation with a good economy. We can always hope!
Posted by Lerris (Member # 3530) on :
My little sisters boyfriend works for ATT. Apparently they are looking for people and they are offering $1500 a day and free room and board for an eight month contract.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
They're offering three hundred sixty five thousand dollars plus room and board? I'm just a little...skeptical of that. Why would they need to offer *that* much money?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Are you sure it's $1500/day? Not, say, $150/day?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
There is no shortage of Iraqi engineers. Pure blood money. The blood of American soldiers currently being spilled solely to so that the Administration can enlarge Haliburton/etc contracts.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Assuming it is $36,000 for 8 months that is still reasonably decent money... What do they want you to do? Maybe this would be the answer for some of our unemployed jatraqueros...
AJ
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Even the least skilled worker got paid more than $150 per day to build the Alaskan Pipeline. And that was 20years of inflation ago, and under less hostile conditions.
Besides, the federal contracts are something similar to "cost plus 10%". Now if you are an ATT executive, would you prefer to profit $15 per day for providing a worker or $150 per day.
[ August 11, 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yes, I'm assuming they will hire local engineers to do as much of the work as possible. But they will certainly need people to coordinate the work of the local engineers, as well as project management and so on. I feel sure there will be positions for Americans as well as Iraqis.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
And you strike me as someone who would be ideal in a role like that ak. I really hope that you do this. How likely would you say that it is that you'll do it?
By the way, did you get my email last week?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Even the least skilled worker got paid more than $150 per day to build the Alaskan Pipeline."
But $1500 a day? I don't think you realize how much money that is.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Exactly--multiply that by even a modest number of workers and even a huge company with lucrative contracts would run into financial trouble paying them.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
$1,500 per day. What do you get for that money?
8 Month Contract is = $366,000
What is an engineers yearly pay? Don't forget, we are not talking simple engineer, but specialists. Simple grunt work or draftsmen are plentiful in Iraq. We are talking major technicians.
Take their yearly fee and double it for the danger involved.
Add another 25% for the discomfort of working overseas, in a region where drinking, fraternizing, and dancing are possibly forbidden.
Add another 25% for the discomfort of the climate. Usual overseas work
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I considered working in the Middle East for a few years after I graduated. The big reason was that they were paying a substantial amount more than what I started with here. The $366,000 seems high to me, but its seems more reasonable than $36,600. Electrical engineers make more than that here fresh out of college.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
The $36,000 (with free room and board) appeared to be in reference to someone working at AT&T. I don't believe it was specified that he was an engineer. IF this was someone semi-skilled at doing phone lines or something but without a college degree it would be pretty good money. For a PE out of the US in a potentially dangerous country I could easily see the salary being over 100K.
AJ
[ August 11, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Noemon, I did NOT get an email from you last week? My new email address is annekateard@bham.rr.com Did you know about that change? I was thinking you did but can't remember for sure. Please do resend.
Anyway, I'm thinking I'm about 80% sure that I'll pursue it and see if they want me, if we can work something out. I'm taking time to think it through, first, as I said. I want to be very sure it's what I want to do before I start talking to the different companies.
Yeah, I would think the pay would need to be over $100k a year at least to get people to risk their lives. $250k doesn't sound at all unreasonable. $360k sounds a little higher than I was thinking but I wouldn't object to that at all.
I would plan to keep my house here and have someone come in and look after the cats every day. I've got one cat that's diabetic and rather seriously ill so I don't feel right about leaving him. I think my mom would be fine with the just my other sibs to look after her for a year or two. They at least check on her once a week or so, and I can still call her from there, of course. I expect I would have internet access so I would not be out of touch with hatrack or my hatrack family either.
I'm feeling like it's what I'm supposed to do, despite some misgivings. I've already started studying Arabic, and I'm going to move my daily run to the hottest part of the day to help me acclimate.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
If the pay really is very good, I could pay off my house and put a nice chunk away for retirement with just a couple of years work. That would be great!
It's also excellent experience for what I see as my long term path which involves developmental work and educating women worldwide through the Relief Society.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I thought that your long term work was to prevent asteroids from slamming into Earth! Who'll step up and do that if you don't?
I thought that either my message hadn't gone through at all, or that you'd received 10 or 20 copies of it. Yahoo was acting very strangely that day.
I'll send it to you again when I have more time.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
The asteroid thing comes into it too! It's all part of the many-faceted plan for keeping the human species from going extinct in the next few decades to centuries. I'm entirely serious about a planetary asteroid defense, despite how I've posted rather lightheartedly about it. It's crucial to keeping the planet liveable, and of course we have to colonize space, too. That's not optional either, though it may take a bit longer.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: I'm entirely serious about a planetary asteroid defense, despite how I've posted rather lightheartedly about it. It's crucial to keeping the planet liveable, and of course we have to colonize space, too.
Whenever I mention the possibility of the destruction of much of the human race, even in a hypothetical sense, I get shot down and accused of being 'overly-dramatic'. I'm glad that it turns out there are other people who can envision this as a possibilty.
I'm not sure I'd jump at a chance at taking a job in Iraq (if I had any qualifications, which I don't) but I'd certainly consider it. It would definately be a challenge.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I made my comment lightly up there, but I also see both of those things (the astroid defense and the colonization scheme) as absolutely vital. As far as I know, the British are the only ones taking the asteroid thing at all seriously--don't they have something at least on the drawing board for mapping potential threats in a systematic way?
As for colonization, that's completely stalled right now, but private industry is exploring commercial launches, so that's a step in the right direction at least.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Actually, spreading out is humanities only real hope. One planetary disater and it is toast. We need to be like cockroaches and spread throughout the galaxy. That way, if one planet gets wiped out, it will be very sad, but humanity will go on.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Exactly, Kayla. Plus we can make DNA libraries in each place, so that if the worst happens and earth is rendered uninhabitable, we at least have some hope of reseeding in the future.
I'd like to see the earth itself become essentially a garden. Let all the heavy industry and densest populations live offworld in other spots around the solar system. That way we could preserve the habitats of other creatures and build huge cities and such for ourselves as well.
Posted by Lerris (Member # 3530) on :
Wow, that is an interesting bit of debate. It is $1500 a day. The fellow in question is an EE and he works planning, designing, and maintaining cell phone networks in the Chicago area. We had originally thought that this was for Afghanistan but found out that this is for Iraq.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Lerris, thanks for that information. I am an EE and would be delighted to work on telephone systems, though my experience is not in that field. I will definitely contact AT&T and see what they say, if they could use me.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I can't imagine a task that is more suited to your strengths. This is it, Anne Kate, do it. Get over there and start building and teaching other people how to do the same.
[ August 12, 2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Ah, your faith in me is inspiring, Irami. I am working out now how I can accomplish this. Thanks for your vote of confidence.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Noemon's blister thread made me realize I need answers to a couple of things.
What should I take with me, in my first aid kit, or just in general? I will definitely take a fair supply of bandaids, Neosporin, and over the counter medicines.
How do I get a year's supply or more of my prescription medicines to take with me? Insurance won't pay but for 30 days in advance. CT, do you know the answer to this?
Thirdly, my diet now is based on drinking 4 High Protein Ensures a day, plus supplements. I also add occasional meals of meat and non-starchy vegetables as required to keep from losing too much weight. I can easily find something to eat in the way of meat and NSVs, I'm sure, no matter what the circumstances, and if I can't it's no big deal to go a couple of weeks without it. But the Ensure I absolutely need. A year's supply would be about a truckload, I guess. 4*365 = 1460 cans or 243 sixpacks. That's about a pallet load, I guess. How on earth do I get that to Iraq? UPS is definitely not running, and I don't know how well the Baghdad WalMart has been able to keep their stocks up.
<rant#52> By the way, I just want to rant here about people who are opposed to McWorld. They should try living in one of those places without a WalMart! They never seem to want their OWN WalMarts to go away, either. Only someone else's! </rant#52> Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
ak, isn't there a powdered equivalent to the Ensures?
Hmm, they say only in vanilla, and it doesn't seem to be high protein. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It's so hard to say, ak (what you should pack). When we went to Thailand years ago, we couldn't have packed much worse if we'd just closed my eyes and thrown random things in the general direction of our suitcase, taking whatever happened to land inside. For example, we brought a year's supply of replacement cartridges for my razor, but found that they were commonly available in drugstores for the same price. C only packed what tampons she happened to have on hand, assuming that she'd be able to get new tampons of some sort once we got there. Turns out that Thai women, unlike C, apparently prefer pads. We looked all over and eventually found tampons, but they were very expensive once we finally found them. Excedrin was another thing that wasn't available there. You can buy any perscription drug over the counter, but for some reason it's illegal in Thailand to sell a mixture of caffeine and asprin. If Lonely Planet has an Iraq guidebook, it might contain recommendations about what kinds of things are hard to buy there; all the same, I found that the Thai guidebooks were often unreliable (Lonely Planet was the best of them though). Anybody with more travel experience have any better advice?
About the Ensure drinks; I can't think of a practical way of getting a year's supply of them over there. Is there some alternative? Maybe you could sit down with your doctor and come up with a replacement that you could either make yourself, either taking the dry materials with you or ideally being able to get them there. I suppose that with all of the extra money you'll be making you might be able to hire a cargo company to fly a pallet of the stuff to Iraq, but I don't quite know where I'd begin looking for somebody to do that.
Is Ensure something that might be available at an American military base's BX? It's possible that you could make arrangements to buy it from a base in Saudi Arabia or Quatar or something, and have it shipped from there.
Just brainstorming here.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Can civilians buy stuff at the Army stores? I didn't think they could.
Guess what? There's an Abbot Labs International number in Baghdad, for Iraq. I have no idea if they'd still be in business now after the war and all. It's midnight there now but I think later on when it's daytime for them I'll try giving them a call.
Yay for McWorld! <laughs>
[ August 15, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Well, officially no, but I'll bet that you could find a way around it.
I take it that that Abbot Labs would be a source for Ensure? Very cool! I hope they're still open! If they aren't, you might look into branches in surrounding countries; shipping from those would probably be cheaper than shipping from the States.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I would imagine that the company that would hire you would be paying to move you to Iraq. While I agree that trying to take a year's supply of Ensure might not be your best option, I would imagine the expense of it wouldn't come into play (at least not on your end). Meaning, all of the belongings you take with you will probably be packed up into some sort of container, so why not include a pallet or two of Ensure.
Edit to say that I think it is wonderful that you are talented enough and ambitious enough to seek out work where your talents can be of great use.
[ August 15, 2003, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
An idea... Ensure might be avaliable in Kuwait. There are a lot of americans already there and in Qatar with the oil business, and most american things are available there. Maybe hospitals there would be able to order it, if it isn't for general retail. Once you get it to Kuwait, it is probably easier to get it to Iraq rather than going direct to Iraq. I also think that any company that employs you will already have some sort of mail/cargo supply line available for its employees.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Is Pixie going to get jealous if you end up seeing Black Fox before she does?
AJ
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yes, it looks like one way or another this could be worked out.
Does anyone have any ideas about the prescription drugs? I am taking four now, regularly, and wonder how I can get a year's supply to take with me. I can't really risk running out of any of them, but two are quite expensive and insurance pays for most of the cost. Do I get a doctor to write me a prescription for a year's supply? And will insurance cover it?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Try giving your insurance company a call and see what can be worked out. That would be where I would start with that one. I'd also look in some of the better guide books to find out what the situation is with perscription drugs. You may be able to just buy them over the counter, although I doubt that insurance would pick up the tab in that case. The company you're going to be working for would also probably be a good point of contact for information about this sort of thing, although I'd leave questions like this for after you've been given the job.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Wouldn't your insurance change if you change jobs? I would think your new employer would be able to answer all these questions.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm somewhat concerned over whether I'm healthy enough for the physically arduous parts, but then again it's government contract work. How hard can it be? ![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
Have you checked out what corporations are being hired to do the rebuilding? That's probably be the best place to start.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
My new email address is annekateard@bham.rr.com Did you know about that change? I was thinking you did but can't remember for sure. Please do resend.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)