My India Oddessey thread seemed to be appreciated by a lot of folks. Now that I am finished with it I was wondering what to do next.
Cindy and I are working on adopting. Would anyone find an ongoing thread of how we bring a new Hatracker or two into the fold interesting?
(Have to run. Wife needs a ride home from work. I'll leave it up to you whether I do this with or without an audience.)
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Well...I like the idea of hearing your ongoing adventures in adoption more than hearing your adventures in trying to conceive. I'm sure the latter is more fun but...
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I'd like to read it.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Count me in!
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Your adventures would be of interest, especially since my 9 year old thinks I need to adopt him (or foster, or beg, borrow, steal) a sibling for him.
Write away -
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
You can have my little sister. I've been trying to sell her for a penny since she was born.
(I'll read it too)
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Geez!
A promo for a future thread!
*double take*
Geez!
I'm an adoptive parent if you ever want to compare notes or anything.
<--- still stunned by the audacity of the teaser thread . . .
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
(somewhat sad that it's a teaser as well)
I'd love to hear about it personally. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Gee, I thought this was going to be a thread about adopting...instead it's a proposal for a thread about adopting.
I'll be looking for the real thing, so post away.
**Ela**
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I had a terrible realization about this thread two nights ago, and have been afraid to write it ever since.
This is worse than a teaser thread, for it will soon be filled with the ongoing adoption story.
Its worse because its.... gasp....
Reality Hatrack!!!!
What have I started?
I am busy finishing up some writing at the office, so the start of this thread has been delayed for a day or two. Sorry.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Reality Threads!
Where??! Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I could use a home. And some money. Got room for one more? Granted, I'm a few years past a minor, but you'll come to love me.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Will the garage do ya? Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
Will it ever!
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
This would be the first time I've ever declined the opportunity to bring a Book into my house.
Book--no.
Posted by Vána (Member # 3262) on :
Oh, this will be lots of fun! What a great idea, Dan.
edit to ask: Where are you looking to adopt from? The US or abroad? If abroad, where?
[ August 15, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Vána ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
There are actually three options (at least). Most people automatically think of private domestic adoptions and overseas adoptions. It is also possible to adopt children who are in state custody here in the states. That is what I did, so if you need info on that, I'm your man.
EDIT: Well, the supervisor of DCF "oversees" adoptions . . . but not "overseas" adoptions . . .
[ August 20, 2003, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
My hubby and I have always wanted to adopt. We've actually had two kids the biological way, but my "original plans" included no horrendous childbirth, but a child of my own anyway. I hope things work out for you and I can't wait to hear about it. (I'm still hoping to adopt one day.)
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Some Background
Enough of a tease. Time to begin.
Some background. Cindy and I are a happily married couple who have been married for 14 years now. We have one friendly dog and no children.
Why? Medical reasons to complicated to get into now.
Cindy is the oldest in her family, and took on a lot of the responsibility of helping her mother raise the other three kids when her parents got divorced. She always wanted children.
I am the middle child. My family was close to perfect, no abuse, no divorce, no major problems. I enjoy the company of children. I perform as a clown, Santa and Easter Bunny, delighting children when ever I can. It is fun, and I love the fact that when a child gives you attention, they give you their full attention. It is an intense focus of responsibility and respect.
Last Christmas I got my wife a few of the usual presents. The greatest one was a selection of books and advice on adoption, all picked up from advice given to me from Hatrack.
It was my way of saying, "Love, lets get off our butts and get ourselves a kid."
The truth is that, while I want a child, Cindy is more enthusiastic about adopting, and she was afraid that she was pushing me into doing something majorlly life altering.
It was my way of letting her know that sometimes her lazy husband needs a push.
Since Christmas we have been going back and forth on the adoption. There were other, small things that got in our way--a trip to India to arrange, major cutbacks at my job, family emergencies, the usual small stuff.
We did fight our way through the big five questions.
1) Adopt or risk having children naturally or having no child at all. We both agreed to adopt. 2) Domestic or International. There are two types of children to adopt domesticly. One is quick, involving children in Foster Care. The other is longer, involving children through adoption agencies. Both of these are worth while options. However, we both have a love for world cultures. We decided to go International.
3) What do we want to adopt. We haven't gotten down to who yet, nor am I suggesting we treated adoption like a purchase out of a catalog. However, one of the big questions is, "Boy, Girl" and "What special needs that a child may have do you believe you can handle"
Girls are put up for adoption in many countries far more often than boys. You don't pay a dowry to marry off your son. You get one when he gets married. Girls hardly ever earn income, so they are expensive to keep. Better to give them away.
Special Needs can be anything from a large birthmark to Down Syndrome or Heart Valve Malfunction.
It also includes Sibblings. Most agencies try to place sibblings together. The family has broken up, to break it up further would be wrong.
Cindy and I think that getting sibblings would be a great idea. It is less expensive to get two children at one time. More importantly, the two sibblings can help each other adapt to their new surroundings. Most importantly, we want more than one child. Bringing in one child, and getting them adjusted to the new life, then leaving them to pick a second child seems cruel to us.
There is also the question of age. Most families are looking to get children as young as possible. Since we want sibblings, we will settle for older, up to 6 or 7 for the oldest. Besides, diaper duty is neither of our favorite ways to spend an evening.
4) Where do we want to adopt from. This was the subject of another thread I put on here 3 months ago. Cindy loves India. My family came from the Ukraine, Russian, Polish are of Europe. While adopting from Ukraine or Russia is $10,000 more than from India, I felt a tug in that direction.
The Sibbling idea clenched that for us, and did so only last weekend. There are sibblings waiting for adoption in Russia. There are none that we know if in India.
5) Who do we go with to help us adopt. International Adoption is not something a person can do by themselves. There are various laws that must be met in your state, the US and the country one is adopting from, if not the territory/state within that country. There are immigration and translation details that must be ironed out.
That is not to say there are not people doing this by themselves. It is cheaper, but also runs the risk of being far more costly, for you run the risk of having to trust people with your money whom you will never see again.
We decided to go with a well established agent instead.
Dillon International was our first choice. We went to one of their meetings several months ago.
The work with Holt International, which was another we were considering.
Neither are able to work with us for sibblings at the moment.
Instead, Sunday we are going to a meeting with Hope Childrens Home. They also have a very good reputation, and a waiting list for Russian sibblings.
The big question is, how long will this all take? It can take a year or more. If any international or Russian crisis pops up, like Sars in China, it can be delayed. However, one lady e-mailed Cindy that she went from first form to bringing home a child in four months.
I could be a father by Christmas.
That's doubtful.
Its also very scarey.
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
Awesome. Good for you. If you didn't find fatherhood scary, then something would be wrong with you.
Might I also add that I am useful around the house in the areas of A: getting things off shelves and B: burning money?
[ August 15, 2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Book ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Burning money.
Some adoptive parents get stressed out by the thoughts that they would be turned down for the chance to adopt. They fear their perfectly normal background, health, and home will not meet the assumed perfect requirements any parent should have.
I know better than that.
My worry is money. I guess that's why I'm going to be the daddy.
We are looking at getting sibblings from Russia. Every group we went to was kind enough to detail the possible costs. While sibblings are more expensive than getting one child, they are much less expensive than getting two children at different times. While Russia has a quick turn around in adoption (how quick, we will see), they are on the expensive side.
How Expensive?
Well, roughly, all the expenses for adopting, including travel to Russia, twice, which they insist upon, will be between $30,000 and $35,000.
It could be less. These are estimated costs, and the organization, Children's Hope International, would rather we planned for more costs than were actually needed. Still, $30,000 to $35,000 is the cost of one expensive luxury car.
Or two new standard cars.
Then we add the cost of furniture, food, medicine, dentists, and all the other things two new mouths will need in our house.
It is worrisome.
We have a good $20,000 in various bank accounts we can get too quickly, and a good $50,000 in equity in our home. We have friends and relatives who will donate if we ask. (Heck, I could beg nicely on Hatrack and pull in an additional $1.87). So there is no major concern.
Still, $30,000...........
Sunday we went to the CHI (Children's Hope International) headquarters here in St. Louis. They started just helping children in China find a good home. They are also known as China's Children.
They have since branched out to many countries.
Sunday was an informative gathering for would be adopties. Actually we are beyond that point, but we went anyway.
The Head of CHI was there to talk to us. As an Adoption arranger he is good. As a speaker, not so good. You could tell, though, that he has a passion for his work.
There were several couples and families there with us in this meeting. Of the dozen families, only us and two others were childless. The others had children, but could have no more. They wanted boys for thier all girl family, or a sister for thier little boy.
One family lost their ten year old son two years before. This was their way of starting over.
We went around the room introducing ourselves. I, the witty outspoke talker, tripped over my own tongue and sounded stupid.
Then some parents came in bringing their newly adopted children. There were two cute little babes from China, and cute boy from Russia.
They were cute!!!
When we were done we talked to the Russian expert. Cindy had dropped by previously, and had asked all the questions needed.
We turned in our first application. We gave them $100 to start the process. We were on our way.
The couple with the child from Russia pointed out that it had only taken 7 months from the time they turned in their second application--the dreaded "Dossier" until they were back home with a baby.
Sibblings, being a "Special Need" can go faster.
We are off to the races my friends.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
<Praying for Dan & Cindy and for smooth sailing through the process.>
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Dan - this is fabulously exciting! My prayers are with you and Cindy as you walk through this process - and I really do appreciate the step-by-step accounting.
By the way, I am good for .73 of the aforementioned Hatrack collection hat - would you like that cash, check or charge! Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I love these Dan. Keep them coming. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Dan and Cindy, how wonderful.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Thanks everyone.
Kayla, I saw that within five minutes of posting the last time. I don't know if it made me want to laugh more, or cry. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Good luck, and this made me very, very happy.
Posted by cats_meow66 (Member # 5504) on :
Thanks all for your support and interest in this. Book--if the offer is still good, I would love some help cleaning the house and getting it "child proof". Are you wanting an allowance? Hope you don't mind a room filled with Winnie the Pooh items. As for the .83 cents--how about keeping that and just sending me a bunch of grocery coupons instead. Like Dan, I took have been thinking about the money needed for this little venture. I have a different view of it though. This view is strenghtened all the more because Dan tells me not to do it. I've talked to some people who did fundraising to help with adoption costs. My friend in India is willing to go shopping and send me ladies clothes, anklets and some other items I saw during my visit there. I can sell these items for a minimum of $5 over the cost of the item and shipping. Give him half and still have some money for our adoption fund. Ladies at my work are crazy for the suits. Husband thinks I'll be to busy with paperwork and things. Yes, I know he is right, but I still feel I need to try. I also want to make some rag dolls for the other kids at the orphanage...another thing I will probably be to busy to do, but will try anyway. Has anyone guessed it yet? I'm a workaholic of sorts--need to constantly stay busy. Toretha--if your still around, I will be getting some saree's also. Thanks again for all your well wishes and prayers. We will definately keep everyone informed as things progress. Oh yeah, ask Dan about the "teaser" he told his family when he invited all of them to our home for the Labor Day weekend.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Well, aren't you the Cat's Meow.
Yeah, I make myself laugh.
You know, I liked the India travel tips. I had this whole post going and I was compressing files and it wouldn't let me post, then the topic was gone!
What I said, was "Thanks for the travel tips. You should compare notes with Dan_raven." Man, I'm good, aren't I?
Welcome to Hatrack!
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Cat is a bit of a n00b. I don't mean that she should be teased or ignored.
Its just that she wanted to add to my Indian Oddessey thread. Unfortunately she hit Add Post instead of Repy so she started a new thread.
Then she realized her mistake and had me fix it by cutting and pasting her comments to the correct thread, and deleting the mistaken one.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Well, I would just like to say that in the thread she started, I don't recall her mentioning you at all.
Are you not at all impressed I put you and her (you and she?) together? (Yeah, I think it is you and her. It would she and I. Right? Oh Lord, where is that grammar thread?) Hell, most days I'm lucky if I remember my own name!
[ August 20, 2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Kayla ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I'm a baddddddd boy.
As Cindy hinted, I did a bad thing.
You should all feel very honored, for Hatrack was one of the first people to know about our adoption plans.
Cindy's mother was also quickly informed, as were many of the people at her work.
My family, however, remains in the dark.
There are no sinister reasons for this. Telling people, face to face, makes this scarey decision all to real. Its like there is a point I can safely back down from these plans, and after you tell people, that point is passed.
Besides, there is always the chance that people will disagree with your decisions. If they disagreed here, I could ignore them. If my parents disagree, I am in for a long time of difficulties.
Finally, there didn't seem to be a good time to tell them. If I told them, then I would have to decide which of my two brothers I would tell first. That gets into a fun little family politics thing.
My idea was to throw a party, invite all our family and friends we hadn't told yet, and spring it on them all at once.
I called them and said, "We are having a party on Labor Day Sunday. At that time we are going to be making an important announcement. Its probably not the announcement you think we will be making. Can you make it."
They all checked their schedules and agreed.
They also each took guesses at what the announcement would be.
Two guessed that we were moving to India. Another guessed the announcement was that I needed some work done on a fence I was building. Thanks for volunteering to help.
I like that last one.
I told them I would tell them when I tell them. It is driving them all nuts.
I like that too.
I will tell you all about the party, those who show up, and thier repsonces.
PS. Anyone in the STL area who wants to come, let me know and I'll send directions. You just have to promise not to say a word about the adoption until its time.
PPSS You may also want to let Cindy know, the only thing worse than a teaser, is an unannounced SPOILER
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Directions! Can I have directions? No guarantee I'll be able to come (haven't gotten my schedule yet, plus a couple other things), but I'd love to be there .
P.S. I'll help with the fence .
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
First Round Approval
I should have brought this up yesterday. I am sorry. However, Sunday we gave them our preliminary application. They said, relax it will take a week or so to approve.
Wednesday evening our approval was in the mail. Now comes the tons of paperwork, and the first bits of money. I've been informed that its illegal for me to mention exact amounts--well, if not illegal, very improper--so I won't.
Now we can spend the entire weekend getting our first round of paperwork together. Ooops, we have a hatrack get together. Weird Al comes first.
I'll list our first round of paperwork, and some of the wierder questions later.
Posted by Vána (Member # 3262) on :
quote:Weird Al comes first.
I'm so glad you have your priorities in order.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought that!
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
Dan, your party idea is great!
and here's praying for smoot adoptions for yall!
and cat-I would love to buy some from you, if I could, and if they're not too expensive, I LOVE sarees Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
A long delayed bump.
But Hey GOOD NEWS ALL.
No, not the kids, yet.
In the middle of December we trudged down to the INS (Immigration & Naturalization Services) office and got fingerprinted.
They than run a routine check on us that takes about six weeks.
We waited.
Within three weeks we recieved a strange letter from them, but that was all.
It seems one of their employees quit, and we had the holidays come up, so things were being delayed.
Cindy hates delays. She decided to bug them until she got an answer. We can't move on until we get our form.
Today she got her answer after going up the beaurocratic ladder almost to the top.
Guess what.
That strange document we recieved around new years?
That was the form we've been waiting for.
Now we look at the stack of paperwork we need to get notarized and apostized and the photos we need to take and the rest of the work we should have had done and the blizzard coming in this weekend and we panic.
But its a good panic.
We fill in the forms, send them out, and next stop, somewhere in Russia.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
That's fantastic, Dan. I am so excited and happy for y'all.
I am also following your progress very closely, as Andrew and I starting the same process later this year.
Posted by K.A.M.A. (Member # 6045) on :
Yay!
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
i'm glad to hear that things are going smoothly. Good luck and God bless.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Dan-- just a hint-- don't go to a Photo store to take a 'Passport photo.'
A photo booth in the mall will do just fine.
:paid $40 for a passport photo before leaving for Italy:
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Maybe for a passport photo, but INS is pretty picky if you are applying for permanent residence or citizenship.
The INS is probably one of the worst beaurocracies in the US.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Mrs. M welcome to the club.
The photo's I'm refering too are of our home, so that the Russian social workers will know we are not shipping these kids off to a Nike Sneaker Factory or storing them like cord wood in the back yard.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
If you take the photo at the right angle the cupboard under the stair can look quite spacious.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
And you an ordained minister!
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Dan, this is great! You know, you could've just adopted me and saved all the fuss.
dkw, Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Scott, I'm commissioned. Ordination will be a nine-year process and I've still got 18 months to go.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I was going to comment about my cubbard under the stairs being kind of open, so really being spacious etc.
Then I realized, one of the side effects of these photo's is that I'll have digital pictures of my special home to share.
PS Bob--The wait line to adopt you was too long. Besides, I want kids who will take care of me in my old age, not whom I have to take care of in theirs. Finally, the adoption process from Russia is a beaurocratic nightmare, but its childs-play compared to adopting from Texas.
[ January 29, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Dan_raven ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I am so enjoying reading this story.
Would you believe my husband actually brought up adoption for us? He wanted to adopt from Central America, where he does his mission work each year.
I told him there were lots of kids who needed good homes, true, but if we adopted another child when we have four children of our own, would we be taking an opportunity away from childless couples who don't already have four children at home?
I'm so excited for you - what a blessing you and your wife are going to be in the lives of the children you bring into your home.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm sure the latter is more fun but...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)