For me Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn. I have spent FAR FAR to much time playing that game. My number two would be Sid Meirs Civilization II. That was my first computer game ever. I get nostalgic just thinking about it.
What about you?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It has to be said.
Tetris.
HOURS spent. Zen-like state reached. Time passing with no notice and peace achieved. Addiction so severe, game is removed from computer, never to be played again.
Posted by Ethics Gradient (Member # 878) on :
Mario Kart for the SNES did that for me.
Greatest game ever? Tough. Starcraft.
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
Although Tetris has a perfect complexity about it and deserves mention as the best puzzle game of all time, the best OVERALL game of all time is:
STARCRAFT. (note the period)
I too can bow to the greatness of Baldur's Gate and the Civ Series, but no game has captured me like Starcraft. I even debate about buying a laptop so that I can play at lunch. I would buy a laptop for no other reason other than to watch DVDs in the car. Sorry off topic, but Starcraft determines many things in my life and I consider it the chess of video games, console or otherwise.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I'm currently playing through Planescape: Torment. If you were a fan of the BG series, go pick this up in a bargain bin somewhere. It's an amazing game.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Didn't we do this thread two years ago?
And didn't we agree that it's pretty much impossible to decide, especially when you look back at vintage games?
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
Tetris is a nice shot... I'm still going with Deus Ex, though... just having *WAY* too much fun with this game...
Edit to note that I played it when it came out... just replaying to warm up for Invisible War
[ August 18, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: T. Analog Kid ]
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
Hmmm... I will have to say either Half-life or Starcraft. Great, great games. Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1376) on :
Starcraft was so much more than just a game. It was stepping into a story. I'd have to agree with that selection, although I really haven't played a ton of games with which to compare.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Oregon Trail for the Apple IIE
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
RPG:
Champ: Planescape: Torment Runners Up: Baldur's Gate, Betrayal at Krondor
Champ: Lords of the Realm II Runners Up: Alpha Centauri, Heroes of Might and Magic III
FPS:
Champ: Deus Ex Runners Up: System Shock 2, Quake III: Arena, DooM
Puzzle:
Champ: Tetris Runners Up: Minesweeper
And, for kicks...
Console:
Champ: Metroid Prime Runners Up: Super Mario Kart, Resident Evil 2, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto 3
[ August 18, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"HOURS spent. Zen-like state reached. Time passing with no notice and peace achieved. Addiction so severe, game is removed from computer, never to be played again."
Katharina, I agree, except my addiction was "Columns," a Mac game(I think) similar to Tetris but simpler. I was totally addicted, and I was gooooood.
I would definitely feel Zennish when I played.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, and King's Quest, the older ones.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I get the Zen trance state when I'm playing a good RTS, or even a TBS sometimes...
...when my troops are an extension of my nefarious will, the world is mine for the taking! Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
Starcraft. I guess this doesn't need to be said. Enough people have already mentioned this game.
It's just so good. Even to this day. The best thing about it was just the impact of playing a game like that for the first time. Before Starcraft, the only other RTS games I ever played were Command and Conquer: Red Alert, and Warcraft II. Starcraft blew those away so badly.
The only other game I ever got so worked up over was Super Mario 64, except Starcraft had BNet to keep me coming back, even after the single player experience was over with.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I would have to say that C&C: Red Alert was really good gameplay, although the graphics and story stunk.
StarCraft was good for about 2 weeks. The story was lame, the graphics stunk, and it didn't actually require intellect to win, only speed. The first person to build 20 gateways and zealot rush wins every time.
Since I only like Chess as a intellectual game, those seem really shallow to me, so I would have to say Chessmaster 9000 with another player. Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
Bah to your Starcraft bashing... You're right about C&C though, it was pretty good. It had more of a real world combat thing going for it...well, definately more than Starcraft did anyway.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
You can never have too much StarCraft bashing. I really hated that game. I liked it for about 2 weeks, then it lost all newness and appeal to it.
I just don't think calling it a "strategy game" is proper, because it isn't strategy, it's speed and luck.
Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
Don't speed and luck play a role in C&C as well? That wont change your opinion though...go ahead, cuss about Starcraft all you want.
Have you tried Warcraft III yet? Now no WAY is that a game of speed and luck.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: Have you tried Warcraft III yet? Now no WAY is that a game of speed and luck.
One of my favorite games.
C&C is speed and luck, but the game itself was designed better.
Posted by Geoffrey Card (Member # 1062) on :
My own hall of fame:
BEST ACTION: Halo [XBox] It's rare to find a game that is so perfectly balanced and consistently fun, regardless of the number of times you've played. Death refuses to get frustrating because replaying again and again never gets boring. I just played my first 16-man match the other night, which solidified Halo at the top. [Favorite line of the night: "Our team has too many Master Chiefs and not enough Indians!"]
BEST RPG: Fallout/Fallout II [PC] While often taking a backseat to Baldur's Gate, these two games defined the future of isometric RPGs. The deep, fully-realized morality system put Ultima to shame, rewarding you in different ways for different moral choices, and allowing you to work for any side in every conflict, many of which had no clear good guy. The skill system was similarly versatile and rewarding, giving you limitless freedom in character design, while still offering special rewards and powers through the Perk system. In the near future, RPGs owe more to Fallout than to any other title, with KOTOR, Greyhawk, Bloodlines, and Lionheart all following closely in its footsteps. [Greyhawk is being designed by the same core team, and Lionheart uses the same character system and style].
BEST STRATEGY: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri [PC] The only large-scale conquest simulator to achieve a meaningful political and diplomatic model. The dynamic world is shaped by your choices, and there is even an involving personal story that you can choose to follow or ignore. Choosing a different faction is more than cosmetic, yet you still have sufficient freedom to do whatever you want. Versatile, engaging, and still fun after several years.
MOST REVOLUTIONARY: Grand Theft Auto III/Vice City [PS2] The recent Grand Theft Auto games threw a wrench in the works by creating moment-to-moment gameplay that was so fun and engaging that they could completely open the world up like a sandbox without creating a moment's tedium. You can play for five minutes or five hours, accomplish something or accomplish nothing, and either way, you are glad you did it.
MOST ANTICIPATED: Fable [XBox] Peter Molyneux is the official eccentric genius of the world of game design [not to be confused with eccentric genius programmer John Carmack or eccentric idiot designer John Romero]. Though not all of his games are smash successes, his exploration into life-like simulations, genre-bending designs, and morally-relevant play choices have had untold influence across the medium. His next project to be published is Fable, the self-proclaimed anti-RPG, a game that pokes fun at the genre, while at the same time fulfilling all of its basic purposes in new and surprising ways. Check it out at www.fablegame.com
BEST OVERALL: Deus Ex [PC] I know it's a no-brainer, but Deus Ex is one of the few games I've seen that does everything right. The game is extremely THICK — there is more going on in every scene than you can pick up on a single pass. But that's okay, because you can play through it from beginning to end five or six times without getting bored. The creators built the game around relevant player choices, allowing your decisions in character design, tactics, and social interaction to affect the storyline in wildly significant ways. There is no wrong way to play. There are only different facets of a fascinating world to experience. The storyline is smart and engaging. There are no fragments of a sacred relic to collect — instead, the storytellers respect you and tell you a grown-up tale of conspiracy and betrayal. The gameplay appeals as an FPS, an RPG, an adventure game, and a stealth shooter. I would recommend this game to every freaking last one of you.
SECOND MOST ANTICIPATED: Deus Ex: Invisible War [PC/XBox]
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
Hmmm... I'd say Tetris gets the award for Most Addicting Game, but I'm not sure if I'd say it's the best.
StarCraft, Baldur's Gate II and Age of Empires are my favorites. Honorable mentions to Icewind Dale I & II, Final Fantasy VII (was IX ever released for the PC, Mac?) and The Dig (I'm not kidding -- great story line, amazing visuals for a CGA based game and how can you not love the 101 uses for the shovel?).
Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
I think I'm just too young for Tetris...not that I never played it! I did. Except it was before my time, there were other games I was more interested in.
If anything, the most addictive game I've ever played has to be either Counter-Strike or Battlefield: 1942.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Just got back from five hours of Starcraft, and I'll throw in my vote for that.
Nick, if you think it's all about speed and luck, email me, and I'll meet you in BattleNet. I'll introduce your zealot rush to my psi storms
twinky, I'm disappointed to see that you've gone to the dark side. While WC3 may have better graphics, it's so unfun to follow, that once the novelty of uprooting Ancient Protectors and bringing them into battle wore off, I stopped playing. Very novel..some good ideas and awesome graphics...but if they do the same thing to SC2, I'll probably end up sticking to Brood War.
And Tetris is the greatest console game ever. I'm still addicted, 15 years later.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
When War3 was released, I put SC away and never looked back. I've played it once since War3 was released.
As far as I'm concered, War3 fixed what I thought was wrong with SC.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
The one game I still have on my machine.
X-Com II-Terror from the Deep.
Simple graphics, simple game play, but so addictive.
msquared
Posted by TimeTim (Member # 2768) on :
One of my favorite games of all time is Master of Orion II, Battle at Antares.
Absolutely magnificent, andreplayable to the end of time. Although there are better games out there, this one has stood the test of time and blazes forth as a beacon of beneficial brightness lighting the way for new and better games.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Although I enjoy a lot of games, I have to say that my favorite is NetHack (whichever version happens to be out at the time.) Not only is it complex, challenging, and different every time; it's also free! It's also open source (I think that's the right term), so there are also a number of really good variations on the game made by fans.
UofUlawguy
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Ryan. I thought of CivII before I even entered this thread.
Now I only have Alpha Centauri in that vein. But it's a hoot!
(my personal pronoun is really "he")
Posted by asQmh (Member # 4590) on :
For me, it's all DOS. Either the Hugo saga or (more likely) a completely text game called Kingdom. The game was simple enough. You live 1,000 years - make the best of it. You conquer lands ("squares"), subdue barbarians, make them loyal - they become serfs become lords become knights. You take x number of knights, y number of peasants and, of course, z number of barbarians (mercenary force, no doubt) into battle and see what happens.
I'm not even big on the whole Godgame aspect or kill-em-dead games, but this game was great. Logged too many hours on my old Toshiba conquering squares and whatnot. I was a great "King," for a woman. ^_~
Oh, but yeah: I agree NetHack is probably the best of the "current" games.
Q.
[ August 19, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: asQmh ]
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Geoff wrote:
quote: BEST STRATEGY: Paradox's Europa Universalis II [PC] The only large-scale conquest simulator to achieve a meaningful political and diplomatic model. The dynamic world is shaped by your choices, and there is even an involving historical events model that you can choose to follow or ignore. Choosing a different nation is more than cosmetic, yet you still have sufficient freedom to do whatever you want. Versatile, engaging, and still fun after several years.
Fixed that for you Geoff. EU II is the beginning and the end of RTS/TBS hybrid play. Plus a huge player mod scene makes the game run anywhere from fantastical to history teaching device.
I mean, what game lets you play as any nation, IN THE WORLD, as of 1419 (Anything from the Mayans, to the Ottomans, to China, to the Iroqois, to the Nubians, and everything in between).
--- You can't do a "Best Game" list without mentioning Grim Fandango and EUII.
And Bionic Commando. 2D NES platforming distilled to its essential parts.
And the Star Wars vector-based arcade game.
And Time-Pilot.
And Seven Cities of Gold for C-64 (or Apple).
And Wing Commander (though I'm not a space simmer).
And so on.
-Bok
EDIT: Oh, lest I forget, there is also the best adventure/shooter/RPG hybrid of all time, Star Control 2.
[ August 19, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Bokonon ]
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Man, Bok, I thought I was the only person who remembered Seven Cities of Gold. I had that for my C64 (I miss that system!).
Starcraft gets my vote as the best game of all time, although there are many others that are right behind it...many mentioned on this thread!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Okay, here's my list of the top five in various categories:
RPG: Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate II, Fallout II, Bard's Tale III, Ultima VI
RTS: Dune II, Myth II, Starcraft, Age of Empires, Rise of Nations
World-Building: Civilization II, Alpha Centauri, Seven Cities of Gold, Pirates!, Europa Universalis II
FPS: Half-Life, System Shock, Unreal Tournament, Jedi Knight 2, No One Lives Forever
Spaceflight: Privateer, Wing Commander 2, Freespace 2, Starflight, Star Control
Adventure Games: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Gabriel Knight 2, Grim Fandango, King's Quest IV, Enchanter
Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
Has anyone played the EU Crowns of the North game? I am considering picking it up. I love Civ3 and similar games, and I am hoping this one is as good.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
!
I can't believe I completely forgot about the Marathon games in the FPS category, especially since they have far and away the best story of any FPS -- and quite possibly any non-Planescape: Torment game -- ever devised.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Gunshy: the most aggravatingly simple game ever, but so addicting
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Jacare, don't bother, I believe it's a repackaging of EU2 and and early Paradox product only released in Sweden, Svea Rike 3, localized for English speakers. A lot of people like SR3, but I see the allure.
-Bok
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Because Tom has exquisite taste in games (except for that whole Adventure genre thing - wth is up with that?) my list is pretty much dead-on with his.
But I'm trading Unreal Tournament for Deus Ex and Jedi Knight 2 for Thief: Gold. Oh, and No One Lives Forever becomes No One Lives Forever II.
Dune II becomes Dugeon Keeper, mostly because I haven't played Dune II and in Dungeon Keeper you get to slap your minions into activity.
Everything else is pretty much spot-on, especially the RPGs. (I've never actually played Bard's Tale III as I was about ten when it came out. But I have enough fond memories of sitting on Slash's waterbed while he played it on his Commodore 64. Those beautiful occasions when he'd let me come in his mystery-shrouded bedroom that always had cheetos and grape flavored Bubbleyum based on my strict promise that I would neither "talk or move or indicate my presence in anyway whatsoever.")
edit: Ralphie does not play flight simulators.
[ August 19, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Tom, how do you justify putting Star Control in the same category as Privateer, Wing Commander 2 and FreeSpace 2? That's like putting Commander Keen in the same category as Half-Life.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Time Tim--I two and a Masters Of Orion II fan. My wife, a friend, and I would set up the turn play mode and spend a weekend conquering the universe.
There is also "Liesure Suit Larry", "The Leather Goddess of Phobos", "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (text version)", "Space Invaders" and the most popular game of all, addictive and stunning graphics for the time----"Pong"
However, I am an Everquest addict.
What other game can be played for over two years and still be fresh and live today.
Well, the 6 add on packs that have come out to date might help in keeping it fresh and fun.
I just bought a new expansion pack that is being downloaded as we speak, over a telephone line at home.
This 24 hour long download means I get to play that other favorite game--Watch the Progress Bar Move.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Hey Dan, try ProgressQuest: all the loot of EQ, without any of the tedium.
-Bok
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Ultimately, at the end of the day, Star Control is a space combat game. And it deserved a mention SOMEWHERE. Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Tom, do you mean Star Control 1, or 2?
If SC1, that's crazy talk.
-Bok
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
I believe he means SC1. And he's right insofar as it is a space combat game. I still don't know about putting it in that category, though.
And SC2 rocked my junior high school world.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
if that's the case, it's definitely a space arcade shooter... But a universally considered mediocre game at that. It really took SC2 to create perfection with that combat system.
-Bok
Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
Red Storm Rising was easily the coolest game ever made for the Commodore.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Red Storm Rising was great fun. One of the few games I still play from that era via emulation. Although I'd love to try getting M1 Tank Platoon to work.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Let's see if I can remember some all-time faves.
RTS: Starcraft (although the original Warcraft sucked up nearly as much of my time)
FPS: Half-Life, Unreal Tournament
Adventure: The Enchanter Trilogy, A Mind Forever Voyaging, Space Quest, King's Quest 4, Star Control 2, Eric the Unready, Ootopos
Space Combat: Wing Commander 2 and 3, FreeSpace 1 & 2, Tachyon
Empire/World-Building: Civ2, Master of Orion
Console: Legend of Zelda (original), Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Mario Kart 64, Final Fantasy 3, Contra, Dragon Warrior, Pitfall, Rygar
Arcade: Star Wars (original), Arkanoid, Altered Beast, Smash TV
Misc. Old School: Dark Castle
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
For all of you who have listed Civ II as a top choice, why do you prefer it to Civ III?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Dark Castle was a great game Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:For all of you who have listed Civ II as a top choice, why do you prefer it to Civ III?
It has the distinct advantage of being a game that I own and have played.
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
After reading all these posts, I agree with Tom that there is no clear answer.
To talk apples and oranges, which soda pop is the best? Is it the one that dominates market share, or is it the most palatable?
By certain criteria, The Sims has outsold many a GREAT game by sheer numbers, so I prefer the choices that are geared for the gamer, the game conneisuer.
But as Tom so wisely aludes to, for every rule there is an exception, and a great game like Tetris pulls in even the casual and non-gamers in a way reminisient to Pac-Man.
But to expand a bit, I loved all the posts, especially the ones with multiple categories.
But in defense of my pride and joy, Starcraft, I too agree that at face value (much like chess) anyone can learn the basics and start to play. But to play well is to master all three races and to defend against the stereotypical rushes. What this brings this discussion to are the characteristics that make a game great: In this case, it is balance and gameplay. Starcraft is SO SO balanced. I too welcome a chance to fry a zealot rush, and I can think of at least a couple ways to do it. That is the beauty of Starcraft, Deus Ex, and other great games.
P.S. My $0.02 is in the mail.
P.P.S Anyone remember Lunatic Fringe that came with the After Dark screen saver software for Macintosh? That was a fun little game...
P.P.P.S I would like WCIII with more than an 80 unit cap. Maybe 150? 200?
[ August 19, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Alucard... ]
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Civ3 just didn't grab me the way Civ2 did originally. It's almost as fun, but even though I own both, I play Civ2 more.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
War3 has a 100 unit cap with the expansion and a 90 unit cap without. Any more than that would completely ruin the game...
As far as I'm concerned, one of SC's most glaring flaws was the high unit cap combined with the low group size. Same goes for War2. Playing Myth II was like a breath of fresh air... War3 draws on Myth just enough, IMO. Individual unit XP would be too much for War3, though it works fantastically well in Myth.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
The small group size always annoyed me in Starcraft, but it did make you think about your groups, so I dealt with it. SC really made you feel like an army marching to battle, where WC3 is more like small unit tactics - fun, but a different focus.
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
Sorry! I haven't played WCIII at all this year. What drove me away from the game was the unit cap. I always enjoy a 2-3 hour game while I counter offensive after offensive, all the while preparing my Uber Strikeforce.
WCIII forced me to use my heroes wisely and to "blitzkreig" my attacks, and I always felt as though my defense was lacking during offensives:
-Sort of a pattern of massing units and sending them in, wave after wave, until the enemy defenses are saturated and broken.
Heck I probably tried to play WCIII like SC and messed it all up. **Must think about this**
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
As far as the emotions generated from SC and WCIII, I always felt a pang as my bases were overrun by the enemy and death was always a painful one as I watched building after building fall.
Defeating a base and having a base defeated in WCIII seemed to occur in slow-motion after being used to SC on "fastest" setting. For me, I was not emotionally involved in the kill or be killed nature of the game (WCIII).
Just another reason why I like SC better, however each game is glorius in its own way. As I said before though, if SC 2 is anything like WCIII, I will die.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Actually, from some reports from televised competitions of professional StarCraft players in Korea, the games largely boil down to map memorization and and hotkey sequence memorization.
-Bok
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
What Tick said. I just happen to prefer small squadrons to big armies. That's why I think Myth II is the best RTS design ever, though I like War3 more.
War3 is completely different from SC. You can't play War3 like SC – partly because map memorization isn't as important in War3. There are no obvious choke points (not narrow ones like SC where you can wall in easily), creep camps are labeled on the minimap, and gold mines are shown on the minimap.
Hit-and-run tactics are much more important in War3 than in SC, too, because there are no über air units that don't get demolished by static defenses, and because of the Scroll of Town Portal (which has a five-second charge time now, so plan your use wisely).
Posted by Da' Grand_Master (Member # 5562) on :
You people have it all wrong....the best computer game of all time is Runescape! Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
CivIII is obviously better than CivII...except for the fact that, until you buy the expansion packs, you have such a limited choice of civilizations. If I want to rule the world as the Canadian Empire, I should be able to.
But CivII had more of an impact when it came out because it made so many improvements over the competition (not to mention its predecessor). CivIII was too much of the same.
I've got more bones to pick with CivIII. I love it and all, but it should have taken these great ideas that Call To Power II used...
1. First of all, CtPII's timeline lasted far further into the future. Personally, it made the game more enjoyable near the end. I liked reading about these new technologies...advancing into the diamond age was interesting, and building undersea cities couldn't have been a bad thing.
2. CtPII allowed you to group units together right from the beginning. You didn't need a leader to start armies. You could make them right away, it made sense. For example, combining archers with warriors was a good idea. The warriors acted as meat shields in a way, allowing the archers to do their damage. The same could be done with marines and tanks later. You also get to see the battles play out. You might eventually get bored of watching them, but there's always have the option to skip it.
3. Theocracy, Technocracy and Ecotopia are all government options!
I could list more but this post is already long enough considering what its about.
[ August 19, 2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Celtic Flame ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Let me state that, as far as I'm concerned, Civ III blows chunks.
Alpha Centauri is a vastly superior game to Civ III, as it featured most of the innovative ideas of that game without some of the useless, downright painful baggage -- like the insanely restrictive corruption at higher levels of difficulty -- that cripple Civ III.
Civ III's special units aren't nearly as well-balanced, the governors still require outrageous amounts of micromanagement, and the combat was actually even more abstracted. (Note: "leaders" and "armies" are agonizing in actual use, particularly insofar as "leaders" are intended to replace caravans.)
[ August 20, 2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
quote:Alpha Centauri is a vastly superior game to Civ III
You're definately right about that.
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
BEST ACTION: Halo [PC] Geoff said that he liked the X-Box version. The PC version is everything that the X-Box version wasn't, and plus it comes with an SDK (software development kit) for mad modding. Not only that, but some of the features that were going to be included originally have been readded, namely the RPG-Warthog and the Fuel Rod gun (aka Hunter Cannon of Doom).
BEST RPG: Fallout/Fallout II [PC] Fallout has a fond place in my memory. It's been compared to so many other works--movies, books, TV shows, whatever--but it really is it's own story. The game had memorable characters, it had tests of morality, and it had some of the best humor I've seen in a long time (I fell out of my chair laughing while being beaten at chess by an ultrasmart radscorpion). It was also a welcome departure from the massive market of fantasy RPGs out there (as if we need another Tolkien-esque epic storyline about one (wo)man standing up to ultimate evil). Fallout III is in the works, or so says the rumor mill. A desktop screengrab of a Black Isle employee had a link to something called "F3 Project Server". I can only hope.
BEST STRATEGY: Total War series [PC] This series of games is incredible. I've reeducated at least two people on this game who thought they were better than the generals of old. The units in both games behave exactly as they would in real life, and real tactics can be applied. I have been repeatedly impressed at how authentically units react when flanked, broken, or charging. I'm anxiously awaiting Rome: Total War.
REVOLUTIONARY: Half-Life [PC] A lot of people talk about Half-Life with a certain reverence, but they don't exactly know why. They know the game was great, but they can't pin down why it was any different than the other FPS games they played that year. It's not about the mods, since the game has to be good in the first place in order to be worthy of modding. It's not about the graphics, they looked kinda dated when Half-Life first appeared. It's not even really about the story, which was somewhat amorphous and lacking a lot of background. It was how Valve told the story that was groundbreaking. They never once pulled you out of the action to give you orders. You hardly stared at a loading/mission breefing screen through the entire game. They didn't even give you a commanding officer. The story was told in-game by characters who were doing exactly what you were doing--getting by.
MOST ANTICIPATED: Vampire: Bloodlines [PC] Half-Life 2 engine. Vampire: The Masquerade lisence. Developed by Troika (developers of Arcanum). The cover story in last month's PC Gamer made the game look very promising. The focus, like the focus of the PnP version, is very much on social interaction. Your actions have a big impact on how you're interacted with in the world. With the Source (HL2) Engine's on-the-fly lip-synching technology, I expect that more often than not you'll be listening to the NPC's rather than staring at text on a screen.
BEST OVERALL: X-Com: UFO Defense / Enemy Unknown / Terror from the Deep [PC] Okay, so Terror from the Deep is actually a whole other game, but ignore that for now. They play very similarly. X-Com epitomizes everything that a game should be: fun, intuitive, strategic, and different. I have yet to see a single game come close to what X-Com does. It's the only game I know that combines global stragegy, politics, economic managment, soldier experience and ranking, reasearch, construction, and squad-level tactics in a successful way. Sadly, all following X-Com games were mediocre at best, and certainly a smudge on the X-Com name. The good news, however, is that the rights to X-Com now lie in the hands of Sid Meier and Firaxis. Not only is there a chance that a new X-Com game will be made--one that restores the once-glorious X-Com name--but also that Eagle Games, a board game manufacturer, will buy the liscence to turn it into a board game (Eagle Games was the company that turned Cid Meier's Civilization into a boad game. There is NO releation to the Avalon Hill game).
SECOND MOST ANTICIPATED: Advent Rising [X-Box] X-Box graphics. Halo-like. Orson Scott Card writing. The only way my excitement for this game could be dampened would be if 43 flaming, crack-addicted monkies were on the development team. On second thought...
[EDIT] I blatantly stole Geoff's template. What can I say, I'm lazy.
[ August 20, 2003, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: WheatPuppet ]
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I never said what was the best game of all time.
Half-Life.
Most gamers here will know why I'm saying this.
Posted by Geoffrey Card (Member # 1062) on :
I have to second Wheat's nomination of Bloodlines for Most Anticipated, since it's pretty high in my own list. Troika was started by the core team from Fallout, so it's no wonder their games show the same level of innovation, open-endedness, and moral relevance. The two things about Bloodlines that attract me the most are:
(1) the use of Source to make an RPG ... that lip-synching and facial animation technology is cool and cinematic in a shooter like Half-life 2, but it could really turn an RPG into the stuff of legend. Not to mention the open-ended play options that a fully-realized physics engine could offer.
(2) their intense focus on the differentiation of the vampire Clans. Most RPGs are really just hack-and-slashers at heart, because when you get down to it, it rarely FEELS like you're playing one particular "role" or another. A bowman shooting arrows feels pretty much like a wizrd chucking fire bolts. In Bloodlines, the developers are apparently devoting a lot of their attention to making the various clan personalities really MEAN something to the way you play the game.
Vampire isn't a combat game, it's a social, storytelling game, and it seems as though Troika really GETS it. If they do everything with it that they seem to be planning, then it could well be the best RPG of next year.
Posted by Geoffrey Card (Member # 1062) on :
An example to illustrate the lack I see in a lot of RPGs. I'm playing a self-absorbed necromancer named Qualm in Lionheart. Well, I'm trying to, anyway, but the nonresponsiveness of the world is a real barrier. Apparently, the Inquisitors on the ground floor of the Chambers don't mind if my skeletons hack up all their buddies on the floor below ... and their leader doesn't care if I kill his personal bodyguard right outside his open bedroom door, then rifle through his shelves for free scrolls.
The funniest example, though was when this dude told me to go save his brother from some rampaging water demons. When I got there, the brother was already dead. So what would any good necromancer do? I raised him into a zombie, and led him back to the dude. Did anyone in the game notice how cool and clever I was? Nope. The conversation with the dude went exactly as though I didn't have the walking, stinking corpse of his brother standing right next to me.
Now, AS a designer, I can tell you that responding to situations like this would have been mind-numbingly hard and tedious for the developers. Lionheart is the kind of game it is — a straightforward isometric RPG, and a well-made, well-balanced one at that. I'm not asking for Lionheart to be any different.
But I AM anxious for someone to make an RPG that truly takes things like the bizarre behavior of a necromancer into account. Certainly, such an RPG would only be able to offer a narrow range of character options. But if those options were really well-realized and exciting to explore within the context of the story, I would forgive the lack of variety. As long as they give me a few numbers to minmax with, I'll be fine
[ August 20, 2003, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: Geoffrey Card ]
Posted by Duragon C. Mikado (Member # 2815) on :
One word: Dalron.
Starcraft is superior to all forms of gaming, it just is. The specialty maps are my favorite: in particular, Half Life Team Fortress. I have played it soo many times.
Does anyone know why the protoss units say such messed up things?
SC is definantly the best RTS. If you only played it two weeks you never played anyone good. (Bats and Medics eat zealots and Dark templars for snacks)
I am glad somone finally mentioned the Fallout series. Few people pay attetion to my favorite genre of fiction, Post apocalyptic mayhem. Good premise. Good character and role playing system. Good humor. Good fun.
Half Life 2 will be the best FPS.
[ August 20, 2003, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: scoobydoob ]
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
quote:Most gamers here will know why I'm saying this
you work for Valve?
don't get me wrong... loved half-life and HL2 looks incredible... just being a smart@$$
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
WheatPuppet--I couldn't agree with you more about the original X-COM game. If I had to pick a single game as the best of all time, this would be it. Alpha Centauri or one Civ or another would be a close second, but really, I've never played a game as fantastic on as many levels as X-COM is. I've stopped paying a lot of attention to the gaming world over the last year or two, so it was news to me that Firaxis had aquired the rights to X-COM. That's fantastic news! I would love to see something with the flavor of X-COM (and hopefully retaining at least the option of turn based tactical combat) that takes full advantage of the latest graphics cards. The original X-COM was what finally motivated me to break down and get a PC back in '94, and an equally good new X-COM game would probably be enough to convince me to either perform a major system upgrade or buy a new PC again.
Tom, it's interesting that you feel so vehemently about Civ III. While there are a few things that I find annoying about it, including the corruption problem and the fact that the tech tree stops before getting into interesting future technologies (why not just port over Alpha Centauri's tech tree, and go from there?), and their failure to implement the modular approach to unit design that was created for Alpha Centauri, I nonetheless enjoy the game quite a bit. It is probably a reflection of me rather than of the game, but Civ III has grabbed me more completely than Civ II did; I've been playing it, more or less consistently, for over a year now. Probably two years, come to think of it. I've never played a game for such a long period of time.
One of the things that I really like about Civ III is the new way that territory works; I always hated that in Civ II an ememy civ could just walk up and plant a city in what was clearly my territory.
Honestly, though, I don't remember the mechanics of Civ II all that well (which is surprising, given that I loved it at the time). You say that leaders in Civ III replace caravans in Civ II. How so? could you use caravans to rush construction?
Civ III isn't perfect--I agree that Alpha Centauri is a better game (I've never played against an AI that had as distinct a personality as those in Alpha Centauri)--but its flaws haven't kept me from enjoying it.
By the way, did you know that you can use the rules editor to tone down the corruption? You can tag a structure like the courthouse with the corruption reducing properties of a palace, for example. Not a perfect solution, but it makes the game more enjoyable.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
On Civ2 - caravans could be used to hurry construction.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more mention of MMO games on these lists, despite the vast amount of time people pour into them.
Also, Halo for PC looks good, but I wouldn't put it on a list until It's been played. The only new stuff is the multiplayer - they went out of their way to make single player exactly the same - so that is what Halo for PC should be judged by. (I'm excited - the distributor I work for has Halo sku'd ready to go...shipping to our warehouses on Oct 28! We have HL2 also, just no ship date)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's a feature that I wish they'd left in then; it just makes sense. I also wish that it were possible to ship food around your empire.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Halo without co-op multiplayer is not Halo.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
From the buzz, they are 'trying' to get Co-op in to Halo as a patch, but it definitely looks like it will not be a release day thing.
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
If Halo has the same mostly-excellent single player and approximately the same multiplayer then it beats out Halo for X-Box simply for the fact that it has an SDK and is moddable.
My only worry is that Halo for PC v1.0 will have lousy netcode. I'm not too worried, though, Gearbox is a good developer (they developed Half-Life: Opposing Forces).
EDIT: I got to stop writing my posts at 2:30 in the morning. Please excuse the terrible writing in the above post.
[ August 20, 2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: WheatPuppet ]
Posted by Celtic Flame (Member # 5556) on :
I know maybe this isn't the best RPG out there, but it's definately one of my favourites. I'm talking about Earthbound.
I loved that game...as soon as Nintendo releases it for the GBA, it's mine.
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
OK the units in Starcraft say some wierd things, expecially the Protoss units, but most of the sayings are from movies.
Correction: I believe the Terran scout says: Locus acknowledged (position is verified).
As far as the Protoss Arbiter, who knows? I do know that the flame-tossing wizard-demons in Diablo II say something strange, and it is the last name of one of the developers. You catually fight a unique monster of the same name in Baal's throneroom.
**Must think on this as well**
Ahhh yes the name is "Rolento".
Hopefully all of you have done this, but units in Starcraft and Warcraft have multiple sayings for each unit. Just keep clicking on them repeatedly and they just keep saying more interesting things...
P.S. My favorite quote from a unit in Starcraft is:
"We Burn." -Archon
2 points for anyone can name the movie with the following quote:
"Time is the fire in which we burn."
(My 7 year old has ben required to memorize this)! Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
The Paladin in War3 says "let me face the peril."
Now that is funny. Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:2 points for anyone can name the movie with the following quote:
"Time is the fire in which we burn."
Star Trek: Generations, of course.
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
Saxon,
Nuthin' but net!
Must've been your prior work in the moviemaking business that honed your skills.
P.S. You were great in Enter the Dragon Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
I hate you all! I'm wasting my week off playing StarCraft now...
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
My favorite quote from Warcraft IIII (or two quotes, exactly) is from the Troll Shadow Hunter added in Frozen Throne:
"Wha' kind of accent is 'dis? A troll accent!" "I swear, Jamaican me crazy."
For those who don't know, the Trolls in WarIII come from a tropical island off the coast of Kalimdor. They all have thick Jamaican accents.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Seems like I'm in the RTS minority around here, seeing as how I've only played SC once since War3 came out.
But then, a lot of people whined that War3 wasn't SC2 when it came out, or at least that it wasn't SC2 in the WarCraft universe. Those people really irritate me. WarCraft universe fans have been waiting for War3 way longer than SC fans have been waiting for SC2.
I happen to think that War3 leaves SC in the dust, but I'm prepared to accept that most people disagree. I'm also a Mac user. Posted by Duragon C. Mikado (Member # 2815) on :
twinky, I still think SC is leaps better than W3, because of the online specialty games, like Kings & Knights, Hostage Negociations and Half Life Team Fortress. Even IF w3 was better, it should be! it was released years after with lots of time to BE better. However, I think we all know that SC2 will blow away anything in existant. I am hoping that the terrans will have something incredibly cool, like a nuclear submarine. It would be so cool, even if you could only use it once or twice in the entire game. At least give them a nuclear bomber.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
>> twinky, I still think SC is leaps better than W3, because of the online specialty games, like Kings & Knights, Hostage Negociations and Half Life Team Fortress. <<
Wait, you think SC is better than War3 because of mods? War3's campaign editor is lightyears ahead of SC's, and it shows in the mods.
>> Even IF w3 was better, it should be! it was released years after with lots of time to BE better. However, I think we all know that SC2 will blow away anything in existant. <<
Your last sentence has to be true if the first one is, so that's not really much of an argument
The first sentence, though, is not true. Civ3 is a perfect example of a sequel that many people thought was a step back from SMAC and even Civ2.
SC2 won't blow anything out of the water simply by being SC2. It'll probably be good, because it's Blizzard, but if they pander to the SC fanboys who whined about War3, it'll make the game worse than it could be. Blizzard needs to remember that War3 sold exceedingly well, meaning that they can do whatever they want with the SC frandchise (including releasing StarCraft: Ghost) and it'll sell if it's good. I certainly don't think that SC2 should be like War3, but the argument that it's going to be better just because it's an SC game smacks of fanboyism
I am hoping that the terrans will have something incredibly cool, like a nuclear submarine. It would be so cool, even if you could only use it once or twice in the entire game. At least give them a nuclear bomber. <<
Nuclear units would be pretty seriously overpowered. An air unit that could call down nuclear strikes might be workable, though... we shall see.
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I am glad somone finally mentioned the Fallout series. Few people pay attetion to my favorite genre of fiction, Post apocalyptic mayhem. Good premise. Good character and role playing system. Good humor. Good fun.![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
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War3's campaign editor is lightyears ahead of SC's, and it shows in the mods.