From time to time, a Jatraquero might say something like "Hang in there, you're strong." The truth is I'm not. I'm scared and I'm weak.
I'm scared to face problems out of my league. I'm weak because I run away from them and try to ignore them.
Last year I realized the more you ignore a problem, the harder it is to handle. Funny how I have to learn the same lesson again this year. Things didn't change. Personally, I think it's cause I didn't do something right in the first place in addressing the problem that it didn't change things. And I know what the response you probably thing to that is: "you have no control over other peoples actions." Ya, well, I felt like I did.
Jatraqueros have always been there ready with a link, advice, or sharing a personal experience. So that's why I'm asking if I should do this.
Last time I talked to my Dad head on. It was hard, harder than one may think. Things didn't change, though. I need to know if I should try to talk to him again.
What I'm afraid of: I'm afraid of my parents getting divorced. I was afraid of this last year as well. I'm afraid of what people in a community of gossip and rumors would do to my family, and most importantly what effect it would have on my mom and my siblings. I want so much for my sister to be happy. But who am I to keep her in ignorance?
So again, should I talk to him or continue ignoring it? Talking to him won't change him.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I would say continue to talk to him about it. But don't be sure you know the right answer. The truth will set you free, though. Be open and honest. Don't let your anger or fear eclipse your love for your father. And be sure to listen as well as speak. Courage is a single word, dude, "Yes".
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
Talking to him most likely won't change him. But talking to him about your observations and thoughts and worries should make him aware of how you feel and hopefully take you (and others) into more consideration. Not to mention that if you feel the need to talk to him, you probably should for yourself as much as for anyone else. Letting you thoughts and feelings be known, even if they are not heeded can be important.
These are just general suggestions -- I don't know any details of what you're going through -- and, of course, they might not apply to every situation. In any case, I wish you much strength and grace.
(((T)))
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
(((((((((((((T_Smith))))))))))))))
I know virtual hugs are probably of minimal consolation, but I thought I'd give them out anyway. I also just wanted you to know that you are not the only one who feels weak and unhelpful. I know EXACTLY what that's like, so all (and I mean ALL) my sympathy goes out to you.
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
T, I'm not really the one to talk here, but perhaps I can give you a little perspective on your problem.
I have never been able to forgive my natural father, and the last time I spoke with whom my sister and I refer to as "the sperm donor" was well over twenty years ago. I was fortunate because of my wonderful stepfather, who is the guy I call "Dad".
However, now that I have a son, I would like him to meet his genetic grandfather while he is still alive. I don't know how I'm going to do this. I thought, perhaps, that it would be best if another family member took him. That would forstall the verbal abuse I would channel at him in a nonstop tirade! But I am older now, and wiser, I hope. I think I would be able to hold my tongue long enough for the meeting to take place. After all, he's really more afraid of me than I am of him.
Don't let this happen to you. Forever is a long, long time....
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
If you know for sure your father's actions are continuing I would definately talk to him again. If I remember correctly he is in a leadership position no? I thought it was bishopric or stake presidency. If this is the case find out who your stake president answers too. You talked to the stake president last time right? If you are not getting the "right" answer (ie I'm repenting and following proper channels) then keep going up the chain of command. It is hard. But this is your father's and your family's eternal salvation. Your parents might not get divorced. There are marriages who take these kind of trials and emerge stronger. I wouldn't tell your siblings yet though. Hold a family council with your dad, mom and yourself. Explain your view of the situation and how you upset you are. Explain that you are having a hard time reconciling the belief system you were raised with and your father's actions. Ask your parents how you three can fix this situation. I'll remember you and your family in my prayers. Call the temple and put your names on the prayer roll. I know you haven't gone through the temple yet but prayers will be said on the behalf of those who are on the "list" (anonymously of course). Remember we love you! ((T))
Posted by flyby (Member # 3630) on :
I think you should talk to your dad again, let him know that things are still bothering you. Most certainly it will be difficult, but even if the things you talk about don't change your dad immediately or even in the recent future, they will make an impression on him, and just letting him know that you care about his welfare and spirituality will make some sort of impression on him, and someday, maybe a long time down the road, it will make a difference.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
T, I don't remember what this is about exactly, but if you think your father is having an affair (physical) of some type and talking to him about it last year didn't do anything, I think it is well past time to tell your mother. If he is, she is at risk and your fear of them divorcing shouldn't be enough to keep this information from her. It's her life that is at stake.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Hope you're OK with me posting that link, Nate. I don't know what to tell you. It's terrible that you have to find these things when you get on your own computer. My advice is to make it absolutely clear how much he is hurting you, and see what happens.
We're behind you, Nate, you can lean on us if you don't feel strong.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: If you know for sure your father's actions are continuing I would definately talk to him again. If I remember correctly he is in a leadership position no? I thought it was bishopric or stake presidency. If this is the case find out who your stake president answers too. You talked to the stake president last time right? If you are not getting the "right" answer (ie I'm repenting and following proper channels) then keep going up the chain of command. It is hard. But this is your father's and your family's eternal salvation.
I don't know what this is about, but am I reading this right in that you are suggesting that T take this up the chain of command until he finds someone who will force his father to repent of his 'sin'?
Anyways. T, I think not only you should talk to your father but it is your right as a member of the family to expect answers.
Hope everything works out. Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Okay, rereading the link, it seems that it did go beyond the internet. I would definately tell your mother. She needs to know and needs to be taking precautions.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:Hold a family council with your dad, mom and yourself. Explain your view of the situation and how you upset you are. Explain that you are having a hard time reconciling the belief system you were raised with and your father's actions. Ask your parents how you three can fix this situation.
That sounds pretty hard to do. I'm probably more of a coward than T but I know that I couldn't do something like that. Does this mean your still finding internet history stuff? If so there might be something you could leave in the internet files to show him your still paying attentio or something... I don't know. You probably shouldn't take my adive since I'm a copmlete coward...
Hobbes Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:Okay, rereading the link, it seems that it did go beyond the internet. I would definately tell your mother. She needs to know and needs to be taking precautions.
O.K. I agree with Kayla, however talk to your dad first and give him time to to tell your mom. Dont' just tell your mom yourself before talking to him and giving him that chance. Say, an hour? One day?
T, you have to be super careful with this. I would really, strongly advise that you not discuss this with anyone outside of your family who knows your dad without his knowledge. Do. not. do. it. You realize that your dad may take some kind of drastic action if he feels that the life that he knew is over? I think the best thing to do is to talk to your dad, then have a family meeting where everyone decides what is going to happen.
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
I agree with Storm. It is important for your mother to know, but I think it is also important for you to give your father the chance to inform her his own way first. You really need to talk to him and let him know how his behavior is affecting you. The first time you talked to him, did he give you indication that he would change? If he did, I would tell him that he has had a year to do so, and since things are the same you believe your mother has a right to know. I'd give him a certain amount of time to tell her himself, and make sure he understands that if he fails to do so, you will. (If you want to go that route.)
As far as your concerns about your sister, the rest of your family, a possible divorce: If things go on for long enough this way, chances are others will discover it eventually. You have a chance to have a bit of control over how things play out. Next time it's discovered, the situation may be a lot rougher. To put it simply.
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
(((((((((T)))))))))) can't offer advice but am praying for you.
[ September 01, 2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Toretha ]
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I agree with much of the advice that has already been offered. Specifically:
Don't tell anyone outside of your family
Talk to your father again and give him a deadline for when he must talk to your mother or you will
Let me add something else. Do not tell your siblings. It's not your place to do so - your mother can tell them when and if she thinks they should know. She is the only person who has that right. I'm sorry you have to go through this. It's never easy to find out that your parents aren't the people you thought they were. I've gone through things that were similar in nature, if not in specifics and I can tell you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. No, your relationship with your parents will never be the same, but you will be able to reforge it and the new bonds can be even stronger than the old ones.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
((( T )))
T, I can only second what everyone else has said, but I especially agree with ak. Your dad cares about you, despite any secrets that he's keeping. You discussing your thoughts and opinions with him can only be for good...whether it be yours, his or your whole family's. Hang in there. You're in my prayers.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Nate, buddy, hold on.
I went through something similar a couple years ago when my parents were getting divorced, and this is the only advice (from my perspective) I can give.
When my Dad decided to tell my mom he wanted a divorce (he had been "working" in California for several months already) he did so during our Christmas vacation at Disneyland. I, being the oldest, had figured out what was going on and had talked to my Mom, but none of my five younger siblings had a clue - they were all just in California to go to Disneyland and have the time of their lives. It was awful. At night, we were all in various rooms of my dad's little apartment, and I could hear my Mom crying.
To this day, I haven't been able to talk to my dad about it. I've talked to him, but it's never been confrontational, and it's never been more than superficial. I've talked to my mom about it a couple times, but I really felt uncomfortable.
My advice: if it bothers you, don't force a confrontation.
Here's the bright side of it: There is always Someone you can talk to. The night I sat in that room and listened to my Mom trying to hide her crying, I thought I would rather be dead. The only thing I could do was try to say a feeble little prayer. I opened my mouth and no words came out, just a flood of tears. At that time, though, the Holy Ghost spoke true peace to my heart. I had never known what "peace" in the gospel sense meant. But it is very real. You have a Father in Heaven who knows your pain and knows how to comfort you. He loves you perfectly.
Posted by @Ease (Member # 3066) on :
Ah, T
I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this.
Unfortunately, a friend of mine's husband is doing the same thing. When she found out, she confronted him. He's stopped, but he literally won't let her out of his sight. We think he's afraid that if left alone, he'll slip back into his old patterns.
She tried to get help. To find a professional to talk to, but he said he couldn't live with the shame if he felt like everyone was looking at him "differently". He threatened to commit suicide if she told anyone.
She told me because she couldn't handle it alone, and she knows that I would never tell anyone or try to fix the problem myself.
All that to say that the problem IS between the two of them. Other people can get hurt by what he's doing, but only because he has disappointed those who look-up to him. The promise he broke was to his wife- and she is the one who is responsible for helping him and forgiving him. If he is a believer, then he also broke a promise to God. Again, I believe that God is the one to help him repair the damage and forgive him.
T, I think your role is to step back and support your Mom in this. She won't be able to talk to anyone else about it. She'll need you. Believe it or not, it is MUCH easier to be strong for someone else, than to be strong for yourself.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
I know you don’t want to hear how strong you are, but you are strong. If you weren’t you wouldn’t still be here. You know that. That doesn’t mean you can’t also be afraid. You recognize your limitations; you know you are out of your depth. I think it makes you smart and realistic.
You know me well enough to know I wouldn’t say any of this if I didn’t believe it was true.
Yes, you run from problems they don’t go away. Yes, you ignore them and they don’t get better. Don’t use your past mistakes to justify your future ones.
Talking to your father last year was the right thing to do then and it is the right thing to do now. Yes, you probably should have followed up on this sooner, but you didn’t and you can’t go back in time and fix that. Don’t dwell on it. Deal with it. Now. Yes, your mother needs to know, but you should give him the chance to tell her before you do. Pick your own time line, a day to a week. Make sure he knows when his deadline is. Make sure you are there for her once she knows.
Don’t talk to your sister about this. It’s absolutely not your responsibility to tell her. I’ve told you before that you shouldn’t have to deal with any of this, and neither should she.
Given my own nonexistent relationship with my father, I’m hesitant to offer any advice. I poured years of effort into repairing that breach without success. I do get the small degree of comfort from knowing I did everything I could and I hold none of the responsibility for his decisions. This situation is not at all the same and reading the other responses here that agree with mine makes me a little more certain of my advice.
This isn’t going to be easy. This isn’t going to be quick. You already know that waiting will just make it harder.
You feel responsible for knowing and not making sure it was getting better? I fell responsible for knowing and not keeping at you about it. I know you don’t like to be asked about it, but I’m going to.
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
T, I know you're hurt. I'm sorry you are going through this.
Do I understand correctly that you only talked to your dad about his behavior? For his sake, and your family's, the secret needs to be exposed. You can give him the opportunity to do it himself first. But if he will not, you need to tell your mother and the Bishop right away. Your father will not repent as long as his behavior is covered for him. He may not later, either. But his behavior puts him at risk for sexually transmitted diseases. If your mother is having sex with him, she is also at risk. If he is guilty of sexual sin, he should not be allowed to desecrate the temple by attending. Don't feel responsible or guilty for possibly breaking up your family. Your father has already done that by doing what he has done. It may be that the only way you can possibly help him or your family is to bring this to light. Have courage.
Rain
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
(((T)))
I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.
I think you do need to talk to your dad. Even if it is the last thing you want to do. Not to sound flip, but talking to someone in this sort of situation is much like voting: It may not change anything, but at least you have registered your concerns, your fears, your objections, and whatever other feelings you have. You are on the record and can put your mind at ease that you have done what you could do, which is really all any of us can do.
From what I understand of the situation, I would definitely reiterate what others have said, and suggest that before talking to your mother, you give your dad the opportunity to do so. It really is between them, in the final analysis. But if he won't do it, you might have to, and he should know that you will (or someone else will, eventually) if he doesn't do it. The truth does always come out, eventually. He needs to know that.
[ September 02, 2003, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: littlemissattitude ]
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Nate, buddy, I'm sorry, but I don't have any advice to give besides what everyone else has already said. All I can tell you is that you and your family will be in my prayers. I hope everything works out, and that your family is healed.
Hang in there, man.
(((Nathan)))
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I said all I wanted to say the other night, so I won't repeat it. I do think you're dad's a big meany to put your family through this, but I also think you need to let most of the blame fall on his shoulders and not on yours.
I wish you'd be mosre specific, so we could help you better, but I know you're sharing what you're comfortable with, and that's fine.
(((((((((((T, and family)))))))))))))
Ni!
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
How do people do this? How did I do this last year?
It's like being on the high dive as a kid for the first time again, knowing that each step brings me closer to the edge, and each step becomes a bit more slow. Friends behind, pushing me all the way and I know I can't back down now that I'm up there. Everytime I got to the edge, I would look down and think. Older people seemed to be able to run and jump off and even manage a flip, and here I was a little kid, and I could barely even muster a step. But somehow, I always did take at least that step, mainly because friends were always behind me.
Looks like I'm taking the step. Hope I don't bellyflop.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
[EDIT: edited because I can't hug you as much as I want to or you deserve ]
Hobbes
[ September 02, 2003, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Edit: Ahh, never mind.
[ September 02, 2003, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Sorry.
(((((((((((((((T_Smith)))))))))))))))
Hobbes Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Nathan,
I don't think I can really offer you any advice about what you should do in your situation. My parents got divorced when I was very young, about two; I have no memory of that time.
What I do have to give you is this: no matter what happens, life still contains beauty and it still goes on. I'm not merely talking about what you're going through now; whenever life seems dark, remember that it will eventually brighten again. Hopefully things will work out for the best, but, just in case, remember that you have friends who love you, and that whatever happens, it is not your fault.
If you should ever need someone to talk to, feel free to send me an email or drop me a line.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
(((Nathan))))
Everyone has said it already - don't talk to anyone outside family, talk to your dad, give him a day or so, then talk to your mom.
(((((T_Smith)))) Good luck. You are loved and among friends. You're a treasure. And the Lord is always there.
Annie, your story almost made me cry.
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
(((Nate)))
baby steps, kid... you know what you must do. Bellyflops off the high dive suck, but they are almost never fatal... and I've got my lifeguard cert handy Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
T- I obviously do not know your father well enough to be able to say whether or not he might try to deny it, but you should take precautions. Print out the history. If you have a browser that you can turn off image display on, you might want to do that, visit one of those sites, and print out the text portions. Maybe not, depending on how obvious the site names in the history are. Do not tell your father that you have done this, just save the printouts and use them only if necessary.
Good luck. You will be in my prayers.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
(((((Nate))))))
(worries) (wishes she could get on AIM and talk to you...)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
Nathan ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)