Battlestar Galactica wasn't bad enough the first time around?
They could be making another great miniseries in the vein of Children of Dune or Taken, but instead they're bringing back '70s trash. Apparently, the creator of this new series says
quote:"Our goal is nothing less than the reinvention of the science-fiction television series."
They can think of no better way to reinvent the genre than regressing it 20+ years?
They should find another classic SF book and make another great miniseries rather than wasting their time with this crap.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, I'd agree with you on that. I loved Battle Star Galactica back when it was a new show, but after having caught an episode of it recently, I can say that the Highlander effect was definitely in play--that show was terrible. So yeah, why not start an entirely new show?
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
What is the Highlander effect? (speaking as someone who loved the first movie and has hated every sequel and the director's cut of the original)
Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
That really was the problem with much of Glen Larson's work (although he did have quite a bit of success): Start with a pretty cool idea, but then kind of fall apart into bad writing.
IMHO, his best T.V. show was Alias Smith and Jones, because the characters were smart, and found clever (legal, sometimes barely legal) ways to get out of the fix they were in every week.
Battlestar Gallactica had two great premises:
1. A branch of humanity searching for this branch of humanity on earth.
2. A civilization (the Cylons) allowed itself to become so dependent upon machines which eventually destroyed the Cylon civilization and sought to destroy other organic civilizations. It was done better in the Terminator movies, unfortunately.
I really wish they could have focused on the original (organic) Cylons, their civilization, how the machines took them over, etc. Perhaps in flashbacks, or finding historical archives on the current Cylons' ships; I don't know.
That would have been interesting. Instead, the show devolved into "Mormon-based feldercarp of the week."
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
The Highlander Effect is the phenomenon by which you remember a movie or TV show as being incredibly good, but discover upon rewatching it years later that it actually blew. The movie Highlander, for me, is the archetypal example of this kind of thing, but I've also observed it with Battle Star Galactica, The Man From Atlantis, and various things Larry Niven has written.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
I got you there, noemon. I thought Larry Niven succked the 1sttime I read him. . . .
I too loved BSG when I was young, and I too have rewatched and gone "OMG! This is so friggin' campy!" It doesn't help that I can see all the ham-handed attempts to toss in Mormon stuff into the script. They really are bad. Although I still like Starbuck and Boomer. Can't say why, really. Just like the characters.
So of course those are replaced in the new version with women. I doubt I'll watch the new one. I'm tempted, out of some sort of nostalgia, but don't really want to at the same time.
Plus, I don't get Sci-Fi anyway, so I'd actually have to make an effort to see it.
*inertia takes hold*
Guess I won't.
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Similar to the "Highlander Effect" is what I call the "Amsterdam Effect."
Here's what I mean:
Take a relatively good movie like the first "Highlander" (not the director's cut, mind you--turns out, after all, that there are actually good reasons for someone else to be the producer), or to a lesser extent "The Howling"
Then repeat it, two or three or seven times.
If you watch some of the later Highlander films (not the series), or some of the later Howlings, besides wanting to die in a pool of your own steaming vomit, you'll find yourself sickly fascinated by some strange sense of storytelling. Something certainly not of North America. Something, perhaps, not even of this world.
Something from Amsterdam.
I didn't realize this until I watched a "Seabert" cartoon with my kids. The storytelling approach matched. I don't know if I could put it into words--it's like pornography: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it, and I keep it hidden in a shoebox in the basement.
"Seabert" is from Amsterdam. And it's not quite like pornography, since I don't keep it in a shoebox in the basement.
It's as if some sick and twisted Danish consortium bought out the rights to Highlander and The Howling, and proceded to sequel them to death.
If you're ever in a drunk and self-destructive mood, rent these from your local library (or get them on free passes from Blockbuster), and watch them. You'll see what I mean.
(BTW, if you are underage, then you will have to forego the drunken aspect of the above-mentioned ritual. Ask your mom to give you 3-4 teaspoonfuls of Benedryl and a large glass of Pepsi instead)
There's really nothing better than watching some fat, naked guy from New Zealand, painting himself like a giant possum, standing on some mountaintop, screaming to the heavens, "Take me now!"
--Steve (off meds)
[ September 16, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: ssywak ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
lol
But you had better run.
We have Hatrackers from Amsterdam.
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
Battlestar Galactica bit the first time around, agreed. However, the good news is that they are producing a new miniseries, due out next year, of KSR's Red Mars, and it's being done by the same team that did the Dune miniseries.
You just gotta sort through the crap to get to the good stuff.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Truthfully, I just don't know about the scifi channel. A lot of their stuff is pretty darn bad. (Then again, that could be said for the whole of television.)
I didn't even like their Dune miniseries, although it probably was the sci-fi channel at its best.
Posted by BookWyrm (Member # 2192) on :
Why re-invent when they had a frelling winner in Farscape?!?!?!?! Sheesh.
They cut off their noses to spite their faces.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Actually, in most cases I understand what you're saying Xaposert. Most film and television SF really blows chunks!
You can't really get what you can get out of a book. But some attempts have been moderately successful.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
I'm pretty sure it's no longer possible to waste the Sci-fi channel's time. They've done a pretty good job of making their time worthless for a good part of the day ...
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
When do they play ANYTHING good, Geoff? Besides midnight on sunday?
Ni!
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Taken was boring, too. It was ok to watch once, but it could have been WAY shortened.
Sci-Fi does play one good show, Stargate SG1. It's really, really good. Really. I love it. I have been watching it for years, since before Sci-Fi took it over. It's a really good show, and it's funny. I can't wait 'till Friday and I can see the episode I missed...
Did I mention it's a really good show? Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I loved the old show, before Galactica: 1980. I still love it when it comes on. If I know it's on (I might not because I watch so little TV), I will gladly watch this new movie or series or whatever it's supposed to be.
I guess someone has to cast the dissenting vote in here.
I don't see how a miniseries based on KSR's Mars books can be anything but boring. I read and enjoyed (to an extent) the books, but I just don't see a movie/miniseries plotline in them anywhere.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
THREE CHEERS FOR STARGATE!!! Posted by Snuffles (Member # 4332) on :
We really need a vomit smiley.
Grrrr!
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Yeah, that would be cool.....HEY! Whadd'ya mean!? Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
Snuffles, is your sn related to Sirius Black? Posted by Snuffles (Member # 4332) on :
No, of course not.
Grrrr!
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
The only thing the Sci-Fi channel seems to do that is worth while is continue cnceled serieses, like Sliders and Brimstone. Personally I was hoping they would continue at least one of Firefly, Dark Angel, or John Doh.
But alas, they went for Battlestar Gallactica.
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
Icarus, what about the political struggles between John and Frank. The love trianges (quintangles?) Saxifrage Russle will be a great character on his own. And so will Anne.
**SPOILER**
Coyote will just have to lurk in the background.
I think the plot has lots of potential for keeping an uninformed audience entertained.
[ September 16, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Erik Slaine ]
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Oooh! I liked Firefly and Dark Angel, even though they were a little cheesy. They did have some hot guys though... Posted by Snuffles (Member # 4332) on :
Right, because SG-1 Isn't boring and predictable and flat.
GRRRRRR!
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Yes! Stargate is a very well written show!
Posted by Snuffles (Member # 4332) on :
<insert vomit smiley here>
GRRRRRRRR!
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
AAAAAAAAARG!!!!!!! Stargate is an awesome show! And don't get sarcastic with me! Posted by unohoo (Member # 5490) on :
quote: Why re-invent when they had a frelling winner in Farscape?!?!?!?!
BookWyrm, I gotta agree with you totally. I absolutely love Farscape. That was the best damn show, even at its worst it beat the pants off most other shows without breaking a sweat.
You know, there is a big campaign to Save Farscape which might just pull it off. Who is your favorite character? I love them all and will vascillate between them, but I think my most persistant favorite character is Harvey. Posted by Polemarch (Member # 3293) on :
What would be nice if someone would come up with a decent screen rendition of RA Heinlin's Starship Troopers. The movie absolutely blew (a perfect example of what straying from the book a lot will get you), but the book rocked. If they could miniseries that, and get the original themes through intact, that'd be awesome.
Posted by Youth ap Orem (Member # 5582) on :
I liked the movie starship troopers... never read the book though, maybe i should. Denise Richards makes the movie 10 times better. Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
It was a pretty lame movie. I'd like to read the book, though.
Posted by Youth ap Orem (Member # 5582) on :
How could you not like the brain bug! It was so cute and squishy.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
cute? It was still lame.
Posted by Youth ap Orem (Member # 5582) on :
Is the sci-fi channel going to make movies out of the rest of the dune series? I really like the last two books. Miles Teg and Duncan Idaho rock! Also, I didn't like how they casted Susan Sarandon for Jessica, in Children of Dune.
Posted by Polemarch (Member # 3293) on :
Yeah, the book is so much better. The whole point of the book is lost in the movie. Even the genre is changed- starship troopers pretty much invented the powered-armor subgenre of science fiction- but do you see a single soldier wearing power armor in the movie? nope. Also, the whole point of the mobile infantry in the book was that they were an elite, high powered strike force that dropped in in drop pods (not clumsy dropships), where each soldier mattered, and they got the respect they deserved from others. IN the movie they become a force of ill trained conscripts who are expendable. Things like that occur all over that movie.
*stops derailing thread- it may now go back to the topic of improving the sci-fi channel*
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Sci-Fi channel would be much improved if they had Ender's Game series....*sigh*
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Stargate is very well written, and with its fusing of Earth mythology has perhaps the most compelling premise of any filmed sci-fi...but it's not Farscape. The writers are good, but they're ultimately left with much less to work with than the complex, zany, dark universe Crichton discovers.
*** SPOILER *** I too am a closet Harvey fan. I think it was one of the great moments in sci-fi when you see Scorpy remind the Scarrons that he's been their spy for 10 years, i.e. that Harvey screwed over John as badly as he was ready to screw Scorp...visions of Mazer coming clean to Ender... If anything the finale isn't dark enough for me: I wish they'd run with the "Scorpius is a traitor's traitor" theme instead of redeeming him with the nuke blast. Anyway, that moment is only topped by (1) the scene at the end of season 3 where Scorpius decends his staircase cascading with water, for the pure cinematographic effect (2) the closing line + gesture of "out of their minds."
/me wants season 5, dammit
Posted by unohoo (Member # 5490) on :
One of my favorite Harvey lines is in Different Destinations when Crichton asks for Harvey's help and the only advice Harvey can give Crichton is "Do Better". I even wrote a little fanfic where Harvey starts and advice column and gives that type of advice. It was popular enough on the Farscape bboards that I was able to do many "Dear Harvey" advice columns where the other people posting on those bboards would send me e-mail asking for "advice" as either Farscape characters or whatnot that I would respond to with equally bad advice.
That ending wasn't supposed to be the series ending. SciFi had promised a fifth season and then reneged just as Henson was putting Season 4 in the can. That's why it ended with a "to be continued".
Two of my favorite eps (if it is possible to whittle down to just two) are Nerve and Hidden Memory (the end of S1). I fell in love with Stark in those eps.
Posted by Yebor1 (Member # 1380) on :
Bring back
Hercules VAnishing Son And ZENA kyi yi yi yi yi yi yi yiy iy yiy iy urrgggeeee cough cough cough
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I fell in love with John in those episodes. I hadn't been sure of the series, but after seeing Hidden Memory, I was hooked.
I still don't see what people see in Stargate. Every time I catch the show, they're on the same planet, doing the same stuff.
Ni!
Posted by unohoo (Member # 5490) on :
Every time I talk about Farscape, I mean other than John as John is the entire reason for the series, and it is his story for the most part. What I love about Farscape is the complexity of the characters, and that John, along with the rest, including Zhaan, is flawed. In an interview, David Kemper said that John is everyman, which makes sense. Of course he has more capabilities than your average Joe, but he would have to inorder to survive. *But* he is far from perfect. I also loved that a pivotal character, Zhaan is a plant. How Drad is that?
I also agree that Stargate falls short of what it can be. It just doesn't hold my interest. It could be more, but to me it is being too careful and too formulaic (is this a word?).
Posted by Youth ap Orem (Member # 5582) on :
Sci fi use to have anime movies on saturdays... whatever happened to that?
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Wow, just bumping this thread as an illustration of how ABYSMALLY wrong I can be sometimes.
I bow before Ron Moore and his creation, the greatest SF show in the history of television -- Battlestar Galactica.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I need to start doing a better job checking the date on posts. I was reading through the thread, and I kept think something along the lines of "wait a second, I thought a lot of people really liked that show" (I personally never managed to get into it).
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Heh, I was laughing pretty hard after rereading the first post...
Kudos to you for not only admitting the mistake, but bumping it as well. I also find it pretty funny that the general opinion of Farscape and Stargate SG-1 are pretty much the same now as three years ago though.
Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
You're only partially wrong Destineer, as the miniseries was abysmally written/acted. The only reason I stuck with it was because I was told it "got better" and it actually did. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I thought they were (mostly) right. Except for the ones who didn't like Stargate...
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Earendil18: You're only partially wrong Destineer, as the miniseries was abysmally written/acted. The only reason I stuck with it was because I was told it "got better" and it actually did.
Really? I watched the miniseries and I was just bored. I thought it was well done, and I could see why people liked it, I was just incredibly bored. Do you think I'd like the series, then?
I feel like I lose both my sci fi cred and my tv cred because I don't like this show.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
quote:Originally posted by Magson: It doesn't help that I can see all the ham-handed attempts to toss in Mormon stuff into the script. They really are bad.
Just curious, anyone know what this Mormon stuff was in the original BSG? I'm Mormon, but never watched the original one, just the new one.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Hahahah. What a great thread .
quote:I feel like I lose both my sci fi cred and my tv cred because I don't like this show.
I find it very intense and annoying and dramatic and a little too mythical (?) for my tastes. I appreciate that it's a good show, but I don't like to watch it.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
It's really, really good. Really. I love it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I have been watching it for years, since before Sci-Fi took it over. It's a really good show, and it's funny. I can't wait 'till Friday and I can see the episode I missed... ![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)