quote: DALLAS - Southern Methodist University shut down a bake sale Wednesday in which cookies were offered for sale at different prices, depending on the buyer's race or gender.
The sale was organized by the Young Conservatives of Texas, who said it was intended as a protest of affirmative action.
A sign said white males had to pay $1 for a cookie. The price was 75 cents for white women, 50 cents for Hispanics and 25 cents for blacks.
They should have reversed the fees.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: The group sold three cookies during its protest, raising $1.50
That means they either sold it to:
one white man and two black men
3 hispanics
or 1 white woman, one hispanic, and one black man.
[ September 25, 2003, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: sarcasticmuppet ]
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
It means they bought a few themselves.
[ September 25, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Kayla, I'm confused. Why should they have reversed their fees?
*thinks* Oh. Because if they reversed their fees, you believe it would more accurately present the effort needed to obtain the cookie.
----
For what they were protesting, they certainly chose a way to get attention.
At Utah State, there is one day every year a certain group declares "Wear Blue Jeans If You Support Us" day. Every year, people are pissed because they have no intention of showing support, but planned on wearing jeans anyway.
Whatever the fairness of it, the goal is attention. Looks like the same thing here, as well. Tacky behavior, but if the goal is attention, it worked.
Added: I just noticed this was SMU - that's here in town. SMU is the most expensive university in Texas - except I was offerred a position in the English department grad school after just walking in one July, so I can't be that wildly impressed with their requirements. Maybe I just hit a good day. Anyway, the students that I know who go there think they are all that and a bag of chips, so this doesn't surprise me.
[ September 26, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Let's see. Maybe the were spoofing Afirmative Actioin. There were lower standard for the minorities to get the cookies.
msquared
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
They got into the school: definitive proof that no standards are applied to trash other than being white&male.
[ September 26, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
apectre, don't hold back - tell us what you really think.
In other words, name-calling doesn't add anything. Do you have anything else?
[ September 26, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
I work on organizing efforts, which can include protests, demonstrations and "theater" - mostly with groups at the other end of the political spectrum than this particular group.
As someone who works in this stuff, I have to say that this was one heck of a creative protest. Simple, nonconfrontational, attention-getting.
I've been thinking of variations on what they did, and so far it seems trickier to do something like this in terms of a counter message.
One possibility, for example, would be to price things in terms of percentage of average or median paychecks - highlighting disparities in wage-earning in terms of gender, race and ethnicity. To be truthful, I haven't tried to really flesh it out fully - don't have the time or the information it would take.
But see the problem? It's already a lot more complex than their simple little chart was.
Very effective and creative - remains to be seen whether this was singular instance of inspiration or if this group is one we'll be hearing a lot more from.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
They are trash because they made a obvious play against something you are for? There "Bake Sale" showed that some groups can get the same thing for less. How was this racist? Objectivly? Why shut it down? Because the PC community does not like it? How about Free Speech?
msquared
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Having it shut down was a stronger statement for their cause than its existence in the first place. I think their point has been made rather effectively, whether one agrees with it or not.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
"Now we see the inequity inherent in the system! You're oppressing me! You saw him oppressing me, didn't you?"
That was an impressive attention-getter.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Yes. (to Papa Moose.) I'm sure that if it hadn't been closed down, we would not be talking about it now. Probably would never have heard about it at all.
[ September 26, 2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
quote: They got into the school: definitive proof that no standards are applied to trash other than being white&male.
I saw this on the news last night. From what I saw, the bake sale table was being run by onewhite male and two white females.
I was bothered by the fact that the dean or someone in charge said that it was shut down because the school has a policy against harrassment against any students. He said that some of the students "felt like they were harrassed". I don't agree that this bake sale was harrassment.
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
quote: Yes. I'm sure that if it hadn't been closed down, we would not be talking about it now. Probably would never have heard about it at all.
The student who organized it said he was glad it was shut down because of the publicity in got.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Well as long as the crime is in the eye of the beholder, then there was nothing wrong with shutting it down.
Maybe I could walk by the Gay Pride display, feel harassed and have it shut down.
msquared
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:Having it shut down was a stronger statement for their cause than its existence in the first place. I think their point has been made rather effectively, whether one agrees with it or not.
Papa Moose, thanks for saying succinctly what my rambling message tried to convey.
You don't have to agree with someone's message to sit back and appreciate the effectiveness with which they deliver it. And this was very effective.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Msquared, while I agree with you that things should not be shut down solely because they are offensive, I do think this should have been shut down. Because to my understanding it is illegal to offer different prices to people based on gender or race. It should not have been shut down because it was a protest or a political statement, but because it was a bake sale.
And that was their point. The fact that it was found offensive could indicate (though not necessarily) that the black student in question thought the analogy was apt. If they can convince people of the accuracy of the analogy, the battle against Affirmative Action becomes much easier, because it's far more likely that they can get most people to agree that their pricing structure was inherently unfair.
Proponents of the continuation of Affirmative Action in its current state now face two fronts, at least locally. These protesters provided them with an additional battle in the war already being waged, and made it well-known. Agree or disagree with the message, but I don't know that one can legitimately question its effectiveness.
--Pop
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
*Points to Papa Moose*
Yep.
Hobbes Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
Pop, I hadn't thought of it that way, but I agree with you.
But the school official did not say that was why it was shut down. It was shut down because people felt like they were harrassed.
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
While Kat is quite right about the stereotypical SMU student, I the only two graduates from there I know, including my sister-in-law, are fine people...
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I heard this morning that the school said they could reopen the bake sale, but only if they charged the same price for everyone.
Ooh, this is interesting.
quote:Similar sales have been held at U-S colleges since February.
I hate the phrasing of the last sentence - it's propoganda at its finest. The bake sale created the situation - not that a situation was developing, not that some people couldn't stop themselves from yelling and getting rowdy, but the bake sale. It's the bake sale that made the situation unsafe, and not the reactions to it.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
So, if judged by results, the tactic isn't really all that great, since it's been done at other colleges and apparently ignored.
The overreaction (always the activist's friend) of this particular college was the real factor in the "success" of this single protest.
I guess I have to revise my opinion of the strategy. It wasn't creativity at work here - just copycat behavior - by their own admission. They just got lucky in terms of the response and coverage they got.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
In math class, functions are often explained by the sale of the same item, because the same item from the same place will naturally be sold for only one price, right?
WRONG!
This is what I thought of when I read this. I have to social/political comment no add.
[ September 26, 2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Snrdrake--How do you turn this around.
Set up a poster next to the "bake sale".
On the poster show a bake sale stand with the price "Cookies $1,000". On one side show a starving man of color, a starving woman, a skin and bones hispanic child reaching for the cookies, but a White Male with a ruler whacking thier hands away. On the other side of the stand a large, smoking SUV, leaking money everywhere, is pulling up with a white hand, covered in rich jewels reaches out to buy a cookie.
The secret is to put this poster as close as is legally possible to the "Bake Sale".
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Dan_raven,
I think you're probably on the right track, but it would have taken some really quick thinking on the part of other students. OTOH, since this is something that has been used on other campuses, it might be used on others, especially after the publicity this one got. So a stock response for students with opposing (or who feel the issue is more complicated, anyway) might come in useful.
quote:Median income fell for blacks and Hispanics, but was relatively unchanged for whites. Income was highest among whites and Asians.
There's other useful stuff. Overall poverty rate is at 11.3%, while:
quote:the poverty rate for blacks in 2002 ranged from 23.9 percent for those who identified themselves as being black and another race, to 24.1 percent for those who selected only black.
I'd imagine one could develop a useful poster display just from this article, which is based on Census Bureau reports released today.
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