Hatrack River Forum: Language lesson of the day

This is topic Language lesson of the day in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

There's already been a lot of discussion about the misuse of apostrophes in forming plurals. But recently I've noticed another problem stemming from apostrophe abuse, and I think it needs to be addressed for the sake of the English language. Okay, it's really just for the sake of my own sanity.

In English, the past tense is generally formed by adding -ed to the end of a word. Thus, it is I walked to the store yesterday. The past tense is never formed by adding 'd. Never. That's right; there are no exceptions. Thus, you don't say The president veto'd the bill; you say The president vetoed the bill.

Please, please, please, for the love of all that is holy, stop doing the 'd thing. We'll all be a lot happier. I'll be happier because it won't drive me nuts, and you'll be happier because I won't flip out and kill you.

Thanks.

[ September 29, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: The Editor-in-Chief ]

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :

That disturb'd me; I need some hug's. [Frown]

Posted by jehovoid (Member # 2014) on :

Sorry. It just seemed natural. After I posted it I realized it looked wrong, but I didn't think it was that big a deal. And besides, the rules of grammar are constantly changing. Maybe this is for the best.

Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :

what if you like to pretend you're in a shakespeare play?

Posted by Head Ditch Digger (Member # 5085) on :

You know, you worry way too much about people's inability to spell. I don't drive down the street picking out the flaws of other developers.

Oh, wait, yes I do.

Carry on, my good man.

I type'd this before I thoughted.

Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :

Oh man! I was expecting a foreign language lesson of the day.

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

(((Katie)))

Jehovoid, this thread was not intended to criticize you. I've seen plenty of people do it, and after Diosmel's thread, I felt like starting my own little language rant. Don't take it personally.

Ronnie: What if you like to pretend that the English language uses capital letters for the first word in a sentence and for proper nouns?

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

Would some Welsh or Old English make you happy, Annie?

Posted by Head Ditch Digger (Member # 5085) on :

What, no comment for me? [Frown]

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

The spelling and grammar of your last post was impeccable, right up until the "type'd" and "thoughted" part. Thank you for almost making my day.

Posted by Head Ditch Digger (Member # 5085) on :

I couldn't help it. I am just a humble ditch digger.

Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :

ed: what if i like to pretend it doesn't?
i feel that it places too much unearned value on certain words when none is deserving. except my name, of course. my name is plenty deserving.

Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :

Some Welsh would be nice.

Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :

Wow! I've never seen that before. How odd.

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

Some useful Welsh phrases

(Pronunciation note: a y is usually an "uh" sound, though sometimes it's an "ee" sound, a w is an "ooh," a ch is like the ch in German, an f is a v, and dd is the like the "th" in "the." The accent is typically placed on the penultimate syllable.)

Ydych chi wedi dyweddio?
(UD-uhch chee we-dee duh-we-THEE-o)
Are you engaged?

Ddim eto, ond mae ffrind arbennig gyda fi.
(Thim E-to, ond my frind ar-BEN-ig GUH-da vee)
Not yet, but I have a special friend.

Ble mae car Dafydd?
(Blay my car DAV-ith)
Where's David's car?

Mae car Dafydd yn yr afon. Stori drist iawn!
(My car DAV-ith un ur AV-on. STOR-y drist yown)
David's car is in the river. A very sad story!

Beth wyt ti'n mynd i neud yfory?
(Beth weet teen mind ee nade uh-VOR-y)
What are you going to do tomorrow?

Rydw i'n mynd i bregethu yn yr eglwys—tan a brwmstan!
(RUHD-ween mind ee bre-GETH-ee un ur EG-lweez—tan ah BROOM-stan)
I'm going to preach in the church—fire and brimstone!

I hope you all enjoy these handy phrases.

[ September 29, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: The Editor-in-Chief ]

Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :

Awesome, Editor!

I am Welsh. You reaffirm to me how lucky I was being born in the United States.

Dafydd in Kansas

Posted by Her Royal Sweekiness (Member # 5747) on :

Y'know, Mark Twain said he could never respect someone who only knew one way to spell a word.

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

I know plenty of ways to spell words. I just happen to prefer the right ways.

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :

I'd like to think I have more imagination than that. [Razz]

Posted by Bono (Member # 5394) on :

How about Irish? Any Irish lessons?

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

Unfortunately, I don't know any Irish, though I do know a few phrases in Scottish, which is very similar.

Here's one that would be very handy if it were in Irish:

Tha mi a fuireach anns am bhar.
(Ha mee a furich anz am var)
I live in the bar.

Posted by Ryan Hart (Member # 5513) on :

I like this Editor guy.

::buys him a drink::

Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :

I've noticed a continuing inability to use lie and lay correctly. If you have any questions at all about this, please let me email you my lecture # 117 on The Correct Use of 'Lie' and 'Lay' in Standard English. [Smile]

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

Actually, the error is almost always that lay is used instead of lie. Almost no one has a problem with lay, but most people have problems with lie.

Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :

Any Old Norse?

Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :

My favorite has always been hanged and hung. [Big Grin]

Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :

Lit and lighted.

Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :

drug and dragged.

or is that even right?? Who know's? [Dont Know]

Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :

I have an exception. (And I don't care if you don't accept it. [Razz]

) If I typed the following piece of code:

code:

grep 'mt$' /usr/dict/words

I might explain myself by saying "I grep'd through the dictionary looking for words ending in 'mt'." I wouldn't want to have to use "grepped" or "greped" to describe my actions, as the first doesn't preserve the literalism required in computer languages, and the second one looks like it should be pronounced as "greeped". Same with "tar" or "gzip" or any number of other handy tools.

Now I admit that what I speak is not exactly English. [Big Grin]

Posted by Deirdre (Member # 4200) on :

Bit and bited.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

*raises hand*

I have a question. Should this sentence have one "that" or a two "that"s side by side.

Option A:

I suspect that may have done more to help him figure it out than all of the work I've done before.

Option B:
I suspect that that may have done more to help him figure it out than all of the work I've done before.

It is probably poor construction all around but I'd appreciate a grammatical opionion from more learned folks.

AJ

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

The word that has a few different functions in English. One of its uses is to serve as a regular pronoun: "that" helped him figure it out (whatever "that" is). Another use is as a relative pronoun, meaning that it introduces a relative clause (a clause that relates to something else). When it's working as a relative pronoun, we can often drop it entirely:

quote:
I know you're right.

quote:
I know that you're right.

They both work, but it sounds a little more formal when that is included.

In my opinion, when you have two different thats next to each other, it's better to keep the relative pronoun in. Otherwise, readers may see the regular that as a relative that, which may cause brief confusion (though readers are generally very good at figuring it out). If you don't like using two thats, you might want to change the second one to something else like it.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

So I should have left the second that in which was my first instinct.

Oh well it was just an informal e-mail to a friend.

AJ

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

That is the point of that.

Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :

Mike,

The Jargon File has no specific listing of the past tense of the verb "to grep," but it does use the past participle "grepping." By extension, I think we can conclude that it is, at least, not improper to write "grepped."

PS: Nice name. [Smile]

[ September 30, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: saxon75 ]

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :

Are you writing post-it notes to yourself again?

Katie,

You have a meeting at 2:00. Don't forget the style sheets, specs, and raspberry creme savers.

Thanks,
Katie

Added: *sigh* And now my post makes no sense.

[ September 30, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]

Posted by Deirdre (Member # 4200) on :

Katie,

Thanks for the reminder. I totally spaced it on the creme savers.

Katie

Posted by Toes (Member # 4603) on :

WOO! I love Scottish Gaelic!
Tha i bhoidheach! [Big Grin]

[ September 30, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Toes ]

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

Too bad I only remember a dozen words or so in Gaelic.

And too bad Annie never noticed my inflammatory remark. Alas.

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

Well I'll be hornswaggled.

Them's a mightee nice parcel pf handy phrases, like - why I bet youse could hang jest aboot anywheres -

[Razz]

So, the next time I have a burning desire to know the correct way to form a grammatically perfect sentence, may I please e-mail you? You are truly amazing.

How do you do with slang American by the way? [Big Grin]

Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :

The next time I have a burning desire to know the correct way to be sarcastic, may I please e-mail you? You are truly amazing. [Razz]

[ September 30, 2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: The Editor-in-Chief ]

Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :

Ok, I know as a senior in high school, I should have figured this out by now, but what is the difference between then and than? Also, are all of my commas proper in this post? I don't think they are, but I really have no idea what you use commas for, other than to make really long sentences.

Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :

saxon75: Well, just goes to show what I know. It's not like I talk about shell scripting all that often anyway.

As for the name, well, it's mine. [Big Grin]

And I happened to register it in time.

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

blacwolve, here's a quick explanation of than v. then.

And here's one on comma usage.

[ September 30, 2003, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

Why Chief! I was even being half-way serious! Just a little sarcasm thrown in. For seasoning. But, yes, if you wish, you may e-mail me. Does that mean I may, or may not, e-mail you with my grammar questions or should I just post them here for all to discover the depths of my ignorance. [Angst]

Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :

You can blame me for seeing sarcasm where it wasn't intended; I alerted him to your post. Sorry. [Smile]

I'm sure Jon Boy would love it if you emailed him with questions. There are few things he likes better than answering language questions. You can email me too, for that matter, but I don't see the point, since I'd just ask him if I didn't know the answer. [Big Grin]

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

My husband keeps telling me boughten and dranken are not real words. I'm sure I've posted on this subject before. I'd like to thank Ed 'n Ch for the info. 'd is short for Would, id'n it? The last sentence I kept thinking all the 'lls should be 'ds. Was that on purpose?

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

Shan, just remember that one of my other usernames is Sarcasm. If someone's sarcastic to me (even if they're halfway serious), I respond with sarcasm. It just means that I like you.

Pooka, which 'lls are you talking about?

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

I pass muster, then?

Phew!

Posted by MaureenJanay (Member # 2935) on :

PHEER /\/\Y L33t 5K1LLZ!

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

Yes, you do, Shan.

But MaureenJanay doesn't. [Razz]

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

I suppose doing a victory dance would be a little inappropriate at this juncture . . .

Posted by MaureenJanay (Member # 2935) on :

It might P33V3 m3...

and you wouldn't like me when I'm peeved...

[Evil]

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

Oh, I dunno - I appreciate nasty, mean, bad and ferociously tempered folks -

It's kinda like a family reunion!

[Razz]

Posted by MaureenJanay (Member # 2935) on :

*pats Shan*