I got a rejection slip from Fantasy and Science Fiction today for 'Mouse and Elephant.'
Dang it.
It came back so quickly-- I sent it out on Friday of last week. The last time I submitted to F&SF, I got a personalized letter. This one was definitely a form letter.
Ah, well. Now to send out to Asimov's.
[ January 15, 2009, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Keep plugging away, Scott, it will happen.
[ October 10, 2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Scott, that story was amazing, and they're big stupidheads not to jump on it.
Keep it up.
Ni!
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
I've been so busy with school and moving that I'm only halfway through "Mouse and Elephant" (a little late for your critique, neh? ) but it was EXTREMELY enjoyable as far as I read...
Ni is probably right, they're just big stupid-heads. *thwacks F&SF*
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well, I'm still hoping to sell other stories to those stupid-heads. . .
If they accept future stuff, are they still dumb?
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
mmm...probly not.
Ni!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
((((((Scott))))))
Hobbes Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Same thing happened to me, Scott. Back out with it, dude.
I actually have all my stories in a spreadsheet with who I've submitted them to, and if the rejection letter I got was form or not.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Amka-- I do the same thing!
I'm sending it out to Asimov's this week. As soon as I get some more paper.
Thanks for all the kind words, folks. Much appreciated.
And for those of you who are still working on submitting something, anything-- rejection doesn't hurt nearly as bad as you think it will.
Posted by IrishRage (Member # 5792) on :
Never surrender Scott. Fight the power!!! Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
Scott, I would interested in reading that if you would want to email it to me. nickmayo@comcast.net Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Fight the power!
Fight? How exactly do you fight an editor?
The idea here is to get on his good side by producing exceptional work. . . and I'm not so proud as to think that 'Mouse and Elephant' is the be-all, end-all of dark, urban sci-fi.
I accept that it is not the right story, for the time being, for the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.
But it IS right for Asimov's. For Asimov's, it is the be-all, end-all of dark, urban sci-fi. They're going to love it.
And if they don't, hey, I knew it was a piece of crap when I submitted it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Scott, I'm floored they didn't accept it. That's completely weird.
Keep going. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Kat-- thanks. I didn't realize I'd sent it to you. . .
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Um...yeah... *clears throat* I totally meant to get feedback back to you. Sorry about that.
This is the story you sent out a while ago, right? I don't have it anymore, but I figured it was the same one.
I thought it was great.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Um. . . general begging question from wise readers who read 'Mouse and Elephant.'
How did you feel about the amount of violence directed at Anthem? About the amount of violence present in the story?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
By the way, without having a clue what your book is about, I really like your title.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Why thank you, Teshi.
shameless, grovelling bump.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Point of clarification, please, Scott. Did this story used to have a different title? That would make it the one I still have siting on my desktop, waiting for me to read and give feedback. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Rivka-- I think you've received two stories from me-- 'Eviction Notice,' which we've discusssed, and 'Mouse and Elephant' which I'm bemoaning now.
'Mouse and Elephant' was originally called 'Iceburg' for reasons which may become apparent down the road, as I flesh out Anthem's world. Some of the first people to receive the manuscript will see that even though the STORY is called 'Mouse and Elephant,' the FILE is called 'Iceburg, rev2a' or something along those lines.
Other folks received the very first Anthem story, called 'Anthem.' Go figure. Since I shamelessly bumped this thread last night, my debauchery cannot get any worse, so I'll continue to blather. 'Mouse and Elephant' takes place before 'Anthem.'
While we're on the subject of Anthem, and I am really and truly scraping the bottom of the 'Look-at-me-I'm-a-pathetic-writer' barrell, let me ALSO mention why I didn't enter Phobos this year.
Ahem. Rant ahead. The faint of heart may wish to avert their gaze. I'm serious-- moaning, wailing, whining, and gnashing of teeth to follow.
Last year, my short story 'Anthem' was a finalist. This was a huge suprise to me, because I received no communication about it (some of you may remember the thread). I contacted Phobos to make sure it was my Anthem that was posted as a finalist, and not someone else's. They confirmed that it was indeed mine, and reported that they did not know why I hadn't received the email reporting it.
Oh, well, says I, chalk it up to the vagaries of Hotmail.
'Anthem' did not make the final FINAL cut, but I was pleased that it got as far as it did. I didn't receive an email notifying me that it lost, either. . . but I was okay with it all, and continued on my merry way.
(kacard, if you or OSC have any problems with the following, let me know, and this post is gone.)
I attended Boot Camp this year. As some may know, OSC is a panelist/judge with the Phobos contest. Some of you may also know that while OSC may forget faces and names, he doesn't forget stories. The style that 'Anthem' and 'Mouse and Elephant' are written in is VERY distinctive, anyway-- an illiterate blind man could pick it out. In the dark. Since I was shopping 'Anthem' around, I figured I might try to get some insight from OSC about how to improve it. For my Boot Camp registration, I had submitted a page of the first draft of 'Iceburg,' which later became 'Mouse and Elephant.' OSC and the other Boot Camp members evaluated it, and commented on the odd tone.
At the end of that day, after class, I mentioned to OSC that I had entered a story done in the same style to Phobos, but it had not been chosen to be published. He said sorry, he only saw the finalists. I said it was a finalist.
The short version of his response was that he had never seen it, or anything written in its style.
Gasp.
Choke.
Shrug.
It just makes me wonder if Phobos slept on passing 'Anthem' along.
Geez. I sound like such a prima donna. Whine, whine, whine. It ain't like there aren't other places to publish.
Someone throw a tomato at me.
Rivka?
[ October 15, 2003, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Sorry, Scott, I only throw tomatoes I think are deserved. *scratches head* It's all very odd. I wouldn't know what to think about it either.
And I have both Anthem and Mouse and Elephant glaring at me from my desktop. Errr. I'm supposed to be studying for this test. I keep finding myself here instead . . .
After the test (about 3 weeks -- YIKES!) I should get my focus back. I hope!
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Scott, I finished reading "Mouse and Elephant" and now I'm POSITIVE that the dudes at F&SF are stupid-heads for not accepting it.
I really have nothing insightful to say about the story itself...I thought it was pretty polished already. *shrug* I thought the violence was a little squicky, but it served the story well...nothing "gratuitous"...I liked the voice it was written in, though I found it to be a trifle unclear at times (really minor).
Um...what can I say? I thought it was a great read. I'm curious to see more of Anthem's world; it seems as though there's much more to it than what we've seen so far...I have no idea how much you've developed the background for the world, but it certainly appeared to have a solid foundation.
Eh. I'm tired. Nothing useful to say. Maybe I'll come back later. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks, Zotto!
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Scott, I'm late on the uptake. Could you email it to me? ceckiester@hotmail.com I'd really like to read it.
[ October 16, 2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Narnia ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I just noticed something. Used to be, when one highlighted a smiley, it's face would change-- thus , when highlighted, would appear sad rather than happy.
Not so any longer. . .
Oh, wait, nevermind. It's my browser. Using Mozilla, the icons don't change. Using IE, they do.
Heh.
This isn't a bump. Not a real one.
:quietly: Bump.
I'm not pathetic.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Scott,
Even though you bugged out on myr and I just a little bit ago, I'd enjoy reading the story if you don't mind. prolixshore@yahoo.com
--ApostleRadio
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Scott,
Gordon Van Gelder always responds within a week, and always with a form letter. He/his assistant write a new one every few months and those of us submitting regularly often compare them for a laugh.
He's also very particular about the kinds of stories he wants. I can't say I always care for his taste.
Definitely don't take this personally. Best of luck with Gardner Dozios!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Olav: This one was from Van Gelder's assistant-- the last one I got was from the Man himself.
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
Well, it's a pity you didn't get a personal letter (or better yet, an acceptance!), but I just thought I'd back up OlavMah in pointing out that the fast response time doesn't mean anything—at least, not anything bad—since F&SF is almost always superquick, and it doesn't mean they gave it any less attention than a, say, four-month response time would mean for another magazine. Just in case you weren't already aware.
Like prolix, Narnia & Co., I too would like to read your story, if you don't mind. thisforschool(at)hotmail.com.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks for the info, ae. It DID bug me a bit that they got the reply back to me so quickly.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
This and the fact that Van Gelder used to not have an assistant, so depending on when the last submission was, getting the reply from the Man may have been the norm. I've also seen form letters from Van Gelder that summarize the story, so they seem more personalized - so personalized that it wasn't until I got another one that I realized it was a form! - and then he'll switch to one that is more obviously a form. I've also had editors respond sometimes with detailed personal rejections, then later to another story with just a form, and then the next time I see the editor I find out that the second submission was just during a busier time and they remember the story and do have useful personal comments.
Like I said, don't take it personally.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You're ruining all my illusions, Olav. . .
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I just sent out Elephant and Mouse again, to Asimov's.
Wish me luck. . .
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Good luck Scott! I still think your story was great.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Good Luck, scott. I'd ask for a read, but I still haven't gotten back to a chap who sent me a story about a month ago.
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Good luck, Scott!
I am sorry that I haven't commented on your story. I did very much enjoy it. I like your style. I keep meaning to type up my ideas on it. I know they won't help this time around, but I promised you my thoughts so I am gonna try to get them down.
Posted by Black Mage (Member # 5800) on :
Good luck! Can you send it to me at Anthropo2605@yahoo.com?
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
You don't need luck, Scott. You're a terrific writer.
Let's hope they recognize it when they get your story. Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
Ooh-er. I'm embarassed to say I never did finish your story, Scott, but that's because I'm bogged down with compulsory reading of various sorts. As a result, my pleasure reading has almost all been pushed to the side--your story's in good company with those of Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Haruki Murakami.
Good luck (possibly belated, possibly not) with Asimov's!
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Gee, Scott, now you've got me curious about your stories. Would love to see what you've written.
Good luck with getting published!!!
**Ela**
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I got a rejection slip from Writers of the Future yesterday for my short story Eviction Notice.
NOW I'm wounded.
:whimper, whimper:
Dang it. I'm going to send it out to F&SF today.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
--I-- for stupid magazines!
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Have you tried Strange Horizons ?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Olivet-- no, simply because WotF was the first place I sent it, WAAAY back in August.
Thanks, mack. Stupid magazines.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Very stupid. Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I thoroughly enjoyed Anthem.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Hey, Irami, think you can get Gordon Van Gelder or Gardner Dozois' job, and buy it?
That'd mean you'd have to move out East though. . .
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Scott, one friend of mine dealt with the story-submitting blues by wallpapering a room with rejection letters. His goal was to fill up one wall by the end of the year.
Sort of fun, actually, but he had that sort of sense of humor. He was also a darn fine writer.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
How's the wall looking?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Before I lost track with him, one wall was completed floor to ceiling. He'd just started on the second. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I should make one of those! Posted by Batman (Member # 4211) on :
*is slowly filling up a folder with rejection letters*
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Eviction Notice should have been entitled Rejection Notice.
I need some help determining where else to send it. Eviction Notice is a dark fantasy-- sort of a ghost story, about a man who killed his son and is haunted by him.
Normally, I'd try Asimov's after being rejected by Fantasy and Science Fiction, but it just doesn't seem like Asimov material. . .
Any ideas?
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Scott,
Perhaps Weird Tales would work. Their description of stories published matches Eviction Notice from what I remember of it (which is a lot since I loved that story). Hope this helps a little.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks a bazillion!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Asimov's rejected Elephant and Mouse.
However, they did say they wanted to see more from me, which is different from the last form rejection I got from them.
Hey, any little bit of encouragment helps.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Scott, that is encouraging. Take it for what it is - a form of compliment. Not the compliment you wanted, but still a compliment.
Chin up, it WILL happen. The difference between published writers and all those wonderful writers who never get published is perseverance.
Scott Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Scott, and everyone else who has collected rejections, you may be interested in this website:
It's been one month since I sent Eviction Notice to Strange Horizions.
My fingers ache because they've been crossed for 30 days.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Scott, could you send me those stories? KweaJr@msn.com Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
Good luck!
I've been spending the last several years trying to get published as well, so reading about your rejection from F&SF made me feel a little better. I've got a nice collection of F&SF form letter rejections myself.
I can't wait to hear what news you get back from Strange Horizons. Crossing my fingers for you, so you can rest yours.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Darn it. I thought this was Scott saying the literary world had finally recognized his talent. The heck's wrong with those people?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
You know Scott's eventually going to be one of those people who gets to think up witty responses for all the FAQs he gets asked at book signings. He'll tell auditoriums packed with nerdy sci-fi types how he got yay many rejection slips before Tor finally picked him up. He'll have a bunch of know-it-all fans telling him where to take the story in the next book of his bestselling series. We're all just lucky to be here during the early stages of that process. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Can I read all those stories?
blacwolve@yahoo.com
And anyone who has stories they want critiqued, I am going to be bored out of my mind for the next week, and I'd love something to do to make myself feel useful. So please send them. Posted by Tonatiuh (Member # 6052) on :
iron_man_2@msn.com please sounds awesome
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
I just finished writing a 320 page science fiction novel, currently in the process of micro-editing. Now what? How can I get an agent? Any suggestions?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
The first step is not to post any significant portion of it online, or you will have liite chance of getting it published.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well, I got a nice note back from Strange Horizons telling me that Eviction Notice was too close to horror for their tastes.
Rats.
And Grrr.
Anyway, I'm going to try Weird Tales next, then Amazing Stories. . .
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
BTW, if anyone knows any macabre/horror mags out there, I'd love to be able to sample them.
With the intent of sending along Eviction Notice. . .
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
What a strange market to negotiate.
Too horror! Too fantasy! Not hard sci-fi enough! Not high-fantasy enough! Too literary! Too...
Somebody should start a speculative fiction mag called Orphans or Hybrids that runs all the well-written stuff that doesn't fit into hard genre categories.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well, www.ralan.com notes that Weird Tales is backlogged right now.
I'm thinking of submitting to Flesh and Blood instead. Anyone know anything about Flesh and Blood?
Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
Hrm. I don't know anything about Flesh and Blood, but incidentally I was combing through the magazines at Borders the other day and picked up a copy of Weird Tales.
Would you also please send me your stories? IceDragon60@earthlink.net
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Got the following from Writers of the Future for Mouse and Elephant:
quote: Dear Entrant:
Thank you for entering the L. Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future Contest. Your entry placed in the quarter-finals of the 2nd quarter 2004 (Jan 1- March 31, 2004).
Judges for the quarterly judging are . . .
We commend your achievment and hope you will submit another entry for the 3rd quarter. . .
We wish you the best of luck on your next entry!
I'm not sure what this means. . . that the story is still under review, and I'll be getting a real YAY or NAY in the future? Is it a nice NAY?
??
I'm so confused!
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
It sounds like a nice nay to me.
space opera
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
I'd publish it.
If I could. You still rock, dude!
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
What is meant by the use of the verb 'placed'? In what way did Scott's story 'place'?
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
This confusing. I have some friends who have placed in WoTF, Scott and I can ask them for you if you like?
Anyway, it's a nicer whatever-it-is letter than I got from WoTF.
[ June 29, 2004, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: OlavMah ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
OlavMah-- ask away.
I posted the same question on Luc Reid's Codex forum; am waiting for a response there, too. . .
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Here is the rejection letter I got from the 2004 first quarter:
quote: Dear Entrant:
Thank you for entering the L. Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future Contest. Your entry did not place in the final selection for the 4th quarter 2003 (July 1-Sept 30, 2003).
Judges for the quarterly judging are.. .
We commend your effort and hope that you will submit another entry for the 1st quarter 2004. . .
We wish you the best of luck on your next entry!
As you can see, the only real difference is in the first paragraph, second sentence. A little change in the last paragraph. . .
AAAAUUUGGHH!
I emailed the contest admin for some input on this. I'm going to go crazy, I think.
Don't mind me.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Maybe you can find a way to exploit crazy.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I just wanted to let you know that I'm interested enough in your writing career to check this thread out every time I see it.
Hang in there.
AJ
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
i'd like to read your stories scott. Can you e-mail them to me
GDA89@aol.com
[ June 30, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Little_Doctor ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Got an email from the contest admin today-- .
Fiddlesticks.
I'd try Strange Horizons next, but Mouse and Elephant is 12k words long. . . too long.
Maybe some cutting and slicing. . .
Ugh. I'm frustrated now.
Blackberry Witch is on its way to WotF. . . but it will be September before I find anything out.
I've started tacking my rejection letters to my writing desk. . .
:mumble, rant:
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Scott,
So is your question answered? I say go ahead and submit to Strange Horizons. Unless there are things that you think *can* go, leave it as it is. The submission guidelines are just that, guidelines. (Susan and Jed will kill me for saying that, but hey ) Have you tried SciFiction? www.scifi.com/scifiction
Howabout the Third Alternative? OnSpec? Interzone? Keep sending it out! Connie Willis once recieved eight rejections in one day, and almost every one of those stories eventually sold. One, "Daisy, in the Sun" is now a classic. It's a tough market right now, so don't feel bad about all the rejections.
[ July 01, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: OlavMah ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I haven't tried Strange Horizons yet, because it takes so long to format manuscripts to their specifications.
But I will-- can I drop your name in my cover letter?
Just kidding.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Sure, but it won't help. They've never bought from me . Last time I saw them was at a writers retreat and there was a nasty virus going around, so they may associate vomiting with my presence. :shrug:
They do buy outside the guidelines, though. My Clarion classmate sold them a 12 story series all at once about two years ago. Granted, it has to be really good (this was the star of my Clarion class), but better to give them your best and be outside of guidelines than to give them something that fits their guidlines but isn't your best.
But major kudos on taking the time to format it correctly for them. According to Susan, no one does that.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You're kidding!!
Well. . . huh.
I spent an hour scrutinizing Eviction Notice to make sure it fit.
I'll give them a go this afternoon.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Yeah, just don't tell Susan and Jed that I'm posting this on public forums . The guidelines are meant to give you an idea of 1) what lengths they can afford to buy and 2) what lengths they have the time to read. They are not carved in stone. Don't completely disregard them, but don't do a hatchet job on your work either.
But you might want to try SciFiction first and check their guidelines about word limits. Ellen Datlow does publish new authors with funky voices, so it might be a fit. Her slushpile reader is also very into offbeat stuff. She's the highest paying editor in the field and very particular, though, so don't be offended if she doesn't like your work or you get a brisque, dismissive rejection. She does that to me and then gets after me for not sending her more. While I get along with her very well (she even started contacting other editors for me when I sent a story she liked but didn't think fit on her site), our patron, Mr. Card, and she differ greatly in their opinions - she has a quite strong personality.
One other random thought. If you submit to SciFiction, do not include the stories you had published in MZB in your credentials. Ellen Datlow did not think highly of them - a matter of personal taste. I seem to recall you'd been published there.
That's all the "inside" info I have, I think. Best of luck to you.
[ July 01, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: OlavMah ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Nope-- I'm a never-published-before writer.
What's MZB?
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Marion Zimmer Bradley's something or other. Sorry, confused you with AndrewR. My mistake.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:-)
No problem. Marion Zimmer Bradley's mag went out of business before I started trying to get published.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
After reviewing the guidelines for Scifiction, I chose to send Mouse and Elephant to them.
I'm a little suprised at their pay rates-- they pay twice what Asimov's and F&SF offer. I wonder how they can manage to swing that.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Just sent off Eviction Notice to Flesh and Blood. . .
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Flesh and Blood sent it back-- 'interesting tale,' but not right for them.
Weird Tales is next. . .
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sent a query to three agents today on 'The Wild Land--' a children's book I recently finished.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
SciFiction is the highest paying market and Ellen Datlow has been a high paying editor (maybe the highest paying, not sure) for a long time. How they afford it is by being affiliated with SciFi.com. I don't know that SciFiction generates a lot of money for SciFi, but it's a prestige thing. A lot of stories chosen by Ms. Datlow win awards and she edits The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror.
But it also means she's very selective and particular. She pans my writing to me all the time Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I'm not sure you can get much more selective than John Joseph Adams. . .
I hear that he reads the first word of each story sent to F&SF, and if you don't have him by then, he tosses your story. . .
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
I just sent a story to SCIFI.COM. I fully expect to be rejected, but I'm trying to get a feel for them. Of course, I've had my fill of form letter rejections.
Anyway, I haven't asked for your stories yet, ScottR, because I'm scared to read them. I'm afraid you're going to show me up and make me realize how much of a hack job my own writing is.
But I really, really would like to read them. I'll be wounded afterwards. I might crawl into a hole of despair for awhile, but perhaps a good splash of reality will turn me into a better writer.
So, anyway, I would love to read your stories, any and all that you want to send.
I tried to fight off my curiosity, but alas, it has finally gotten the better of me. Scott, if it is not too much trouble, I would very, very much like to read some of your work.
sneakoscope@gmail.com
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
F&SF is known for being particular, that's true. A friend of mine, who is a seasoned pro at short story writing, made it his goal last year to sell *something* to them because he just couldn't figure out what they were looking for. He ended up selling them two stories. He, like me, had Ellen Datlow as a Clarion teacher and has sold her a few stories for anthologies, but has only just managed to sell a story to SciFiction, and that was with George R.R. Martin and Gardner Dozios cowriting.
I'm not sure if the "reading only the first word" allegation about F&SF is true. People often speculate about why they're so speedy, but it may just be that Van Geldar runs a really tight ship. A lot of editors can read fast and bear in mind that many other magazine editors, like Datlow, Dozios (though he's just finished his stint at Asimov's) and Shawna McCarthy (Realms of Fantasy) make it their jobs to read more than the slushpile. They select the Year's Best, which means reading every issue of everything, and yes, they do claim to read every pro market, or in McCarthy's case, she's an agent on the side.
I just got another rejection from Ellen Datlow! A nice one though Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
OlavMah-- I'm sure JJA reads more than one word.
Like maybe a sentence. . .
I really do appreciate F&SF's speedy rejection process. I hate having to wait for my disappointment.
-that John Joseph Adams gives a story five pages, and if it doesn't grab his interest, he doesn't send it on to GVG. That's not half-bad, considering most editors give it the first paragraph.
It would be funny if he did read only one word. In that case, I wonder what word would be sufficient to capture his attention?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well, I personally know that the word cannot be one of the following:
'They' 'When' 'Anthem' 'Another'
So, for all you aspiring writers-- do not begin any story that you intend on submitting to F&SF with the above words.
BTW-- got a form rejection back from another agent for 'Wild Land.'
BTW part II-- To everyone who has requested a copy of what I've written: All of my work is pending response from an editor or agent right now. It's my personal policy not to send stuff out to be critiqued/read when I have a line for that story in the water.
Sorry for the inconvenience, etc, etc. . .
[ September 07, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Ah, Scott, my finger are crossed. *smile
The Other Scott says that we have so many pages of dreck in us to get out first. Maybe we have so many rejection letters to get before It happens, too, and you aree just chewing your way mightily through your allotted slew.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
The Other Scott only received 3 rejection letters before getting an acceptance. What does he know?
:puts on tortured, misunderstood artiste masque:
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Wow.
When you hit, you're really going to hit big.
(No, serious, under the banter. It'll happen.)
[ September 07, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks, Sara.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
From Ellen Datlow, at SCIFICTION:
quote: Dear Mr. R
Thanks for sending me "Mouse and Elephant" for SCIFICTION. It's a well-told story and I like it but I'm afraid not enough to buy for the site. Good luck selling it and I hope to see your next.
Ellen Datlow Fiction Editor SCIFI.COM
Rats. I'm going to try Strange Horizons after I gather enough emotional strength to format the story and cut some words. . .
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*scratches head*
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Human perversity, plain and simple.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
They are waiting for your poetry. *ducks and runs*
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
OlavMah, what name do you write under?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sent it off to Strange Horizons.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
I hope they give it due consideration. I worry that your rejections may be because your stories aren't read thoroughly -- it is the likeliest explanation I have, and the hardest to do anything about.
You might have discussed this before, but had you considered an agent? Has that been useful to people in the past?
*fingers crossed for you
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
Give the editors a bit more credit than that.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Good Luck Scott!
If it means anything, you know I love your writing.
Someone will pick it up soon. Keep trying.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I talked with a couple folks on Codex, and they think that the above was (at least) not a form-form letter, and I think that most of the editiors in professionally paying mags DO read thouroughly-- at least, I have faith they do.
Though, I've really gotta question about the slush pile readers-- do THEY read thouroughly? I just don't know how F&SF has such quick return times if they ARE reading thouroughly. Or maybe John Joseph Adams is just a phonomenal individual with super-reading prowress.
End ramblings.
Anyway, Strange Horizons has a return time of about a month, so here's hoping.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sara-- I've tried five agents for my children's story, 'The Wild Land,' with form rejections from all of them. I DON'T think any of them read thoroughly ( ).
But you don't really use agents for short stories, and at the moment, that's all I'm writing. I don't even have a novel on the backburner. . .
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
quote:The reason our response came so quickly is because we devote time to it every day, rather than let it pile up. In many cases, we do in fact read and reject manuscripts on the same day they arrive.--JJA
[ September 18, 2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: ae ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
ae-- Thanks for the link. That is a very interesting discussion.
What I've concluded (perhaps erroneously) about JJA is that he is looking very specifically for certain types of stories in the slush pile. Thus, the critiquing mechanism is not 'Is this a good story?' but one of 'Does this story meet my needs?'
The one would require him to read through the whole story; the other allows him the freedom to look for what F&SF needs in a story, and determine very quickly whether or not the story meets the criteria.
Unfortunately, all my current stories are rather long. I should have taken the hint years ago-- the one story that reached Van Gelder was under 5000 words. I'm beginning to suspect (and in fact, the discussion on the thread you linked to confirms it) that shorter = better for new writers.
:whine: But there's just so much PLOT to my stories. . .
Maybe I should just stop putting the word count on the first page. But then, I'd probably be rejected for bad formatting. . .
[ September 20, 2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Ahem.
quote: Dear Scott,
I wanted to let you know that your story is a Finalist in the Writers of the Future 3rd Quarter 2004 Contest.
It will be going out for finalist judging this week. We should have judging results back in the next 2 - 3 weeks.
Please feel free to email me back with any comments or thoughts.
Best Wishes and Good Luck!
Judy Contest Administrator
This is for Blackberry Witch, by the way.
[ October 12, 2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Go Scott! Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
which story?
AJ
(so he edits to put the story above...)
Congrats Scott!
[ October 13, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
HOORAY!!! Way to go Scott, good luck!
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Fingers crossed for first place!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Alright! Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
WOO! Yay Scott!
Ni!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Banna: Yes.
Scott: *waves flag of ScottR fan club* Yay!!! That's wonderful!!!
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Yay and Woohoo for Scott!!!!!
Congratulations with the WOTF contest. Good luck.
Man... now I want to read the newest version. But... darn it all. I procrastinate way too much when it comes to critiques or just sending a "loved it" email.
****** Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Excellent news, Scott!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Scott, I can't tell you how pleased I am! Congratulations!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks, everyone. It's going to be a looooooooong month.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Oh my goodness how nerve-grippingly exciting! I await the results with anticipation...
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
This is such wonderful news! I would not want to be the one waiting for the results, though - I know you're going to be on pins and needles!
Well, we can just hope that the end result will make it all worth it!
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Congrats and...
Bofta! [that's Romanian for good luck in the 'break a leg' kind of wishing of good luck]
I knew someone would eventually see the light.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well, I hadn't heard back from WotF, so I emailed the contest admin.
She said said that judging was still out, and that it shouldn't be long now. :sigh:
I'm very appreciative for her quick response-- my fingernails can't take much more abuse.
Sprigatevi, judges! Gee whiz!
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Oh wow. You must be a nervous wreck.
Best of luck!
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
How can the judges not love Blackberry Witch? It's smart, dark, and a little sexy. Darn it, now I have to read it again when I get home. See what you've done, Scott?
Good Luck!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I got a call last night from the Writers of the Future contest administrators.
Blackberry Witch came in 2nd for the 2004 3rd Quarter.
I'm finally going to be published!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That's wonderful!!!! I'm so impressed. And not surprised at all.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
YES!!!
Scott, conGRATS! And to think, we can say we knew you when. Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Scott, Congrats!
Please let us know how we can pick up a copy. I'd love to support any contest that recognizes how great Blackberry Witch is.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Should be in bookstores next October. . .??
I'm not sure when it will come out, really.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Hooray!
Congratulations Scott! It's sbout bloody time!
Good luck with all the others!
--ApostleRadio
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*yay*!!!!
AJ
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Can we get signed copies? I'm picturing a day when you're a famous author and this first story is worth a fortune. I think getting your signature would be a wise financial decision.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sure, I'll sign copies.
I think they do a signing thing after the awards ceremony-- come out to CA, I'll sign anything you want me to.
Um. . . almost anything.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
quote:Blackberry Witch came in 2nd for the 2004 3rd Quarter.
AHHHHHHHHHH!!
(I just scared my office mates. )
Yay! Yay for Scott! Yayayay!
*dances
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
(I'm still having trouble breathing. Now I'm wheezing.
Yay! Yay!)
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I'm so happy for you! Hooray hooray hooray!
*dances* Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Sweet.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
WOOHOO!!! That's awesome! I got rejected for that quarter. I just re-read my manuscript and found out why...It SUCKED!!! I'm happy for you. I'm hoping I can do the same some day soon.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Yay, Scott!!!! I can't wait to see it in print! (Really, since I'm all about me, I can't wait to bring the book home and brag to my husband how I read an early version of this story, ages before it was published!)
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Oh my gosh! That is truly awesome, Scott. Congratulations!!! I feel so honored that I got to read one of the first drafts. I wish I could have read the next ones, but I didn't feel worthy having not gotten back to you on that first one. Good luck with more of your stuff.
Just let us know which volume, and I'll go and pick it up.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
OSC gives me a compliment on Blackberry Witch (I let him read the early version). Writers Forum
:beams:
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Wow and a half.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*claps*
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
*dances*
that is so awesome Scott! Congratulations. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Very .
Um, Scott, did you get the email I sent you about a week or so ago?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
No, I didn't. . .
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
*powers his way through jealousy to congratulate Scott*
Congratulations, Scott!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Drat. And I didn't save it in my sent folder either, it seems.
Ok, look for one from me later today. Email that's in your profile is correct, yes?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
rivka- that should work.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Rivka-- still didn't see anything from you. . .
Try jbeekeeper (at) yahoo.com . . .
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
Awesome, Scott.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Little update:
WOTF XXI will be coming out mid-August.
I have an interview tonight with the local paper on my win.
Any ideas? How do I prepare?
:gulp:
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Image is everything. Make sure the sequins on your platform boots are shiny and all your piercings are in good order.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:scribbles:
Sequins. . .platform boots.
I was thinking of getting hair extensions, wearing a cloak, and changing my name to Alysander Moonsabre.
Good idea? Bad idea? I don't care for the heavy 'r' sound. . . Maybe it should be Moonglow? Moonhound? Moonshine?
What do you think?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Stick with Moonsabre.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Awesome Scott! I would go with Moonshine, it give you that folksy sound that appeals to the backwoods hillbilly in all of us.
Of course, backwoods hillbillies don't read, so you might have a problem selling your work. On second thought, maybe it's a bad idea.
--ApostleRadio
[ March 23, 2005, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: prolixshore ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Lest anyone think that this is a fluff thread, I am seriously looking for help with this interview. . .
Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
Hmm...sndrake has experience with being interviewed. I've had some, but I didn't do so well, so I won't give advice. Maybe watch reruns of The Tonight Show for pointers for interviews where you talk about your work?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I haven't seen sndrake around lately--
But hey, if he wants to come around to give me advice, I'm all ears.
:bump:
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
A lot of sndrake’s interviews are pretty adversarial. This is a “local boy does good†kind of story, so the interviewer will probably be pretty friendly. Don’t be afraid to pause and think about your answers. Be prepared to either be misquoted or have the reporter “explain†your quotes in a way that isn’t what you meant by it at all. ( I once said something about the importance of lay ministry in an interview, by which I meant that every member of the church, not just the pastor, is in ministry. The reporter put in a helpful note that “lay ministry†means that you don’t have to be ordained to be the pastor of a church. )
Find out (if you can) whether the interviewer reads speculative fiction at all – then you’ll know how careful you have to be in explaining things so that s/he doesn’t write something very, very strange (like the article linked to here awhile back showing pictures of live-action roleplaying to illustrate a story about D&D.)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Oooh-- good ideas. Thanks. Gimme more...
[ March 23, 2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I would write down everything you think you're going to be asked so you remember more intelligent answers during the heat of the interview.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
1. You want to be able to say something unique and intelligent when you are asked: 'what was your reaction on hearing that you had won the award'
Your a funny, clever guy. Come up with something that is truthful but quippy. Know what I mean?
2. Be prepared with a good, but short anecdote about why you wanted to be a writer, or when the first time you knew you wanted to be a writer, etc.
3. This a good opportunity to pitch an upcoming project -- I mean it's unlikely that some publisher is going to read the article, find out about the novel you are working on and call you up, but it will a) be a spur for your work because you've publicly mentioned it b) show that you are ambitious and committed to writing for when you use the clip in promoting yourself [on an author's Web site, in a packet for an agent, etc.]. So think very carefully about which of your projects is the most important, the most exciting, and the most sell-able. It should be a novel or screenplay -- not a short story or novellette.
4. Come up with a consistent message about your approach to speculative fiction and repeat it throughout the interview. Go with the flow of the interview, but don't ramble. Concise answers means what you want quoted is more likely to appear in the story.
5. As dkw mentions, this won't be an adversarial interview. However, the plus+one trick can still be useful in such interviews -- esp. if it seems as if the reporter isn't fully engaged with the story or isn't quite connecting. That trick is to answer the question as briefly as possible (i.e. answer it, but don't go into detail) and then say. "And ........." [fill in what you really want to get across].
6. Work in something that mentions your pride in your hometown or favorably mentions a local book or comics store. The reporter will probably ask a question or two that leads in this direction. Seize that opportunity. Don't be too gushy, but mention how you appreciate the support of .... This is the kind of stuff that hometown papers like and it helps you build goodwill with your local community.
7. If you need more or have specific questions, e-mail me. In fact, you should have e-mailed me already about this. Haven't I told you that I would provide you with some free marketing advice? Don't be shy. This would be costing you *at least* $40 an hour if I wasn't willing to do it for free [this offer is only for Scott --- sorry. But you might be able to convince me to help you for free too even if you aren't Scott. So go ahead and ask. Sometimes I'm in the mood to exercise this part of my professional/intellectual life and if the author/story is good enough, I may give you the same deal].
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Try to think of a concise and easily understood explanation of what this contest is and why winning it is a big deal, without coming across as too arrogant that you won it. (Tricky balance, so better to think this one out in advance.)
S/he’ll probably ask you what your story is about, so think of a good way to answer that one.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
The interview went pretty well, I think. I used a lot of Zal and dkw's advice for prep-- thanks, y'all. I discovered I'm a bit of a . . . chatterer.
On the other end of the enjoyment spectrum, I got two rejection letters. One from Sheila Williams at Asimov's for 'Mouse and Elephant.' The story was powerful, she says, but "didn't quite work for her." No explanation there, but I appreciate her comments. She asked to see more from me, too. The rejection came back after only a month of waiting-- suprisingly fast for Asimov's.
The other rejection was from a poetry contest that I'd submitted 'Song of the Rivelaunt' to. Form letter, really meant to advertise their children's books.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Glad to hear it went well. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:In the science fiction and fantasy genre, magic gives the hero the edge over the villain.
But for the author who wants to write a winning story, there is no magical edge.
Scott Roberts knows all about the discipline involved in creating fantasy fiction. And now he knows what it feels like when the story he created is a winner.
The Salem Fields resident will be honored this year for "Blackberry Witch," an entry that won second place in the L. Ron Hubbard's Writers and Illustrators of the Future Contest. The contest runs quarterly.
In addition to a $750 prize and publication of his story in an anthology, Roberts will attend an awards ceremony and weeklong writers workshop in Beverly Hills, Calif., in August.
"I whooped and hollered for about five minutes," said Roberts when the voice on the other end of the phone line told him the good news.
The children didn't know why their father was yelling. They asked what was wrong.
Roberts, 30, and his wife, Mandy, 28, have three children: Junebug, 6; Super-K, 4; and Litebrite, 2. The couple is expecting a fourth child.
After Roberts told his wife about the phone call, the two celebrated the win and then put their children to bed.
"Back to life," said Roberts.
From the time he was in second grade, Roberts has been slipping in between life and the fantasy world that starts as thoughts in his mind and ends as words on a page.
A fourth-grade teacher noticed his potential and encouraged him to keep writing. In his creative writing classes at Chancellor High School and in helping produce the school's literary magazine, Roberts learned about deadlines. He graduated from Chancellor in 1993.
"My idea was always to be a novelist," said Roberts, who works in computer security in Reston.
But, there were other obligations. At the age of 20, he went on a mission trip to Italy for two years. Roberts is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
When he returned, he was ready to immerse himself in writing and marriage. He and Mandy had known each other for years. She had graduated from Chancellor in 1994.
"I had lots of starts," is the way Roberts described his story-crafting experience from the age of 23.
He sought help on the Internet and in the community and used an online forum for writers set up by Orson Scott Card, a science fiction and fantasy author. He also joined the Riverview Writers' group and attended the group's weekly critique session for about a year.
"It gave me my first opportunity to have my stories read by people who weren't concerned about being my friend," he explained.
"Anthem," a short story, was named one of 20 finalists in 2002 for Phobos, a science fiction story contest.
"It was the first time I ever had the taste of success. To see my story on a list, I was flabbergasted," he said.
He sent the story to other publications hoping to whet the appetite of an editor. But his efforts brought only rejection slips.
"There's no point in being a writer if you don't risk rejection. You gotta put your story out there," he explained.
Roberts' hope was to have the story published in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, a feat he has yet to achieve.
Despite his belief that Internet access was the key to acquiring writing and business know-how, Scott signed up for Literary Boot Camp in 2003. The weeklong writers' workshop is run by author Orson Scott Card.
"I was offended that somebody expected me to pay for this," he said, referring to the cost of the training.
But Mandy encouraged him to go. She is what Roberts refers to as his wise reader--someone who won't shy away from the truth when looking over his story.
In addition to the cost, entry to the workshop was based on a short story submission.
"I could not believe how much I learned in that week. It rekindled my love for writing," said Roberts.
After that week, Roberts said he knew that the only things preventing his success was laziness and the lure of distractions.
He increased production in the next six months and submitted two stories to Writers and Illustrators of the Future Contest. The first was rejected. The second came in as a quarter finalist.
He tried again with "Blackberry Witch," in June 2004.
In October, he received an e-mail announcing that his story was still in the running. It had made it to the quarter finalist level and was in the final judging.
In December, he got the call that led to the few minutes of celebration.
"It's not like my writing life has been irrevocably changed," said Roberts.
He admits he still gets rejection letters from the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction and he still has trouble finishing his short stories.
But he is writing more than 250 words a day. And there's no magic involved in that.
I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about this article.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It's a good article. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
DECONSTRUCTION
quote:In the science fiction and fantasy genre, magic gives the hero the edge over the villain.
Harry Potter is glad to hear it. Voldemort, the Magicless, is doomed.
quote:Roberts
Ugh. My last name sux0rz. Do they have to print it so often? Roberts this, and Roberts that. . . plus, there's that whole debate about where to put the apostophe to indicate possession.
It is just weird seeing my name in print. W314d.
quote:From the time he was in second grade, Roberts has been slipping in between life and the fantasy world that starts as thoughts in his mind
KoM has disciples in Fredericksburg. Who'da thunk?
On that note, there's a Protestant minister in the area who shares my name. I get phone calls from distressed old women all the time looking for help with this or that problem. Once, though, a lady called to ask me where to send 'the check.'
Heh-- I wonder what his congregation's going to think about this. . .
quote:Roberts, 30, and his wife, Mandy, 28, have three children: Junebug, 6; Super-K, 4; and Litebrite, 2. The couple is expecting a fourth child.
This should solidly resolve the difficulty other Jatraqueros have had-- wondering if I really did name my children what I named them.
quote:he went on a mission trip
A mission trip. Like, 'I was tripping on this LDS the other night. . .'
quote:When he returned, he was ready to immerse himself in writing and marriage.
This makes me sound SOOO desperate for lovin.' I promise you, it took a solid five months of dating before I proposed. And I have known my wife since high school. In Mormon dating terms, this would indicate I have a problem with commitment.
quote:"Anthem," a short story, was named one of 20 finalists in 2002 for Phobos, a science fiction story contest.
". . . but it did not go on to win jack-squat." I just wanted to clarify things. I think that's important, because Destineer's story went on to be published, while mine continues to garner rejection after rejection, after rejection. . .
quote:He sent the story to other publications hoping to whet the appetite of an editor.
Alas, editors eat babies, not paper products. I'm going to pen my next story on the soft, dimpled skin of my niece, and send it off to Gordon Van Gelder at Fantasy and Science Fiction.
quote:"There's no point in being a writer if you don't risk rejection. You gotta put your story out there," he explained.
:shakes head: No, I said there's no point in being a writer if you don't try to get published. Otherwise, you might as well be writing in a journal. And I was more erudite. Much more erudite. I mean, I was erudite like friggin. . . Aquinas, or some junk.
I did not say 'gotta.' I swear I didn't. I'll deny it until I die.
quote:Despite his belief that Internet access was the key to acquiring writing and business know-how
Kids, believe everything the Internet says. It's all true. Business, love, spirituality. . . it's all caught up in the Web.
quote:"I was offended that somebody expected me to pay for this," he said, referring to the cost of the training.
I did say this. But I was not implying that I was offended at OSC's bootcamp specifically-- I was trying to imply that I am skeptical of writing programs. Especially ones that ask you to front some cash.
quote: But he is writing more than 250 words a day. And there's no magic involved in that.
I beg to differ. It's dark, terrible, magic involving the sacrifice of my family, my sanity, and quite possibly, my hairline.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I was interviewed by a state-wide church magazine in February. The issue with the story in it just came out this week, and I know I never said the two things I'm quoted as saying. I even know what I did say that the reporter twisted into what she needed to fit her story. What makes them think they have the right to change what is said inside those little "" marks?
I still think this is good article. You come across well.
(You forgot to mention that since she mentions you're LDS and that the contest is named after L Ron Hubbard readers are going to think there's some sort of weird-religion thing involved.)
I did think using magic as the intro to Science Fiction and Fantasy writing was strange, but since your story does use magic, not completely inappropriate in this case.
[ March 30, 2005, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yeay Scott!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The article is great. Your deconstruction is hysterical, Scott.
What is wrong with the name Roberts? Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Scott:
Congratulations!
I agree with your analysis.
It's a good story. And in terms of it coming as a result of placing in Writers of the Future --- it's fantastic. I'm not saying that your win isn't a major achievement -- it totally is. As you know, there's a good track record of winners going on to regularly publish in the speculative fiction mags and obtaining novel contracts. But in terms of trying to pitch a story on you at this point in your career, I don't think I could have done any better. In other words, it's nothing to sneer at. That's an 840-word story you got yourself there -- many contest winners only get an 100-180 word newsbrief.
But the story does show that the writer doesn't quite get the whole thing -- thus the lead and the overall angle to the story seem a little off to those of us who are familiar with the world of speculative fiction. Still, I've seen much, much worse with a paper the size of this one.
One more thing: I'm not too fond of the ending. It sounds like you were just a bit too honest with the reporter about your writing struggles.
BTW, this popped up in one of my Gnews alerts -- so you better watch out. Anytime something somewhere mentions that you are LDS (or Mormon) and you write fiction, I'll know.
EDIT: And I agree with rivka on the name. It's actually a great name for a writer, imo.
[ March 30, 2005, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Zalmoxis ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I don't know what's wrong with it, Rivka.
If I did, I could fix it.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Scott that's awesome. I think it's a very good article, but I really enjoyed your deconstruction. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
Congratulations on the rejections, Scott. You're one step closer to publication for those stories.
(Now if that isn't looking on the bright side, I don't know what is! )
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Zal: I sent the reporter involved a thank you email, because she did do a good job with it-- and the nitpicks I have are just that: nitpicks.
(I'm a little annoyed at the comment about slipping into a fantasy world. . .)
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I'm glad to hear that you found the overall experience and result satisfactory. Sending a thank you e-mail is always a nice gesture.
At the same time: there's nothing wrong with nitpicking. You can't control the reporter, but you can always try and figure out what bothers you or what you would have liked to have been different and then work that into the strategy for your next experience.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
In one of the short stories I'm currently writing, the main character is restoring old motorcycles. However, I know next to nothing about motorcycles, and I'm on a 56k line here at home-- so googling takes FOREVER.
Does anyone have a quick link to pages with diagrams, names, etc. of motorcycle parts?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ask ElJay... Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
wowsers! Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
This page might help. The diagrams are pretty complete, although the site uses frames. Some of the diagrams are sort of sketchy, too.
Any particular brand of old motorcycle?
Edit: And this site has a humongeous number of links, some of which are to parts and assembly guides for specific motorcycles. Having a hard time finding a basic, how-to "this is your motorcycle" page, though.
[ April 02, 2005, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
CT- 1942 Indian Sport Scout. . . I think.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sent 'Mouse and Elephant' off to Analog; I'm not sure how it will do there. . . Analog has a reputation for using lots of hard sci-fi, and M&E doesn't really have a strong science element.
The good news, however, is that I've trimmed it to just under 9000 words, and I can submit it to Strange Horizons if it gets dumped by Analog.
I have finally taken kat's advice, and submitted poetry-- to Strongverse. Three poems-- 'Train Window Prophet,' 'Post McDonald's Epiphany,' and 'The Porch Swing Sings.' It's a start. I have to be in a special mood to write poetry, and lately that mood hasn't fallen on me at all.
As for projects (sigh):
'Lead Kindly Light:' Short story about a Mormon werewolf who tries to fight off the monthly change through renovating vintage motorcycles.
'Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth:' Short story about a xeno-linguist who has left her family for work on a distant planet.
'Soft Touch:' Short story about a telepath who falls in love with a man who has had his sense of touch removed.
'Wizard Gizzard:' Short stoy about a thief who must get out of a geas placed on him by Asmodean.
'The Lord of All Fools:' Big fat fantasy trilogy (that I've barely begun) about death, revenge, magic, and the nature of God in a universe of suffering and malice. Light reading. . . really.
'Patriarch:' Another fantasy novel (stand alone-- hurrah!) about a boy and a girl who fall in love, defy the queen of the land, and suffer horrendously.
See the problem? Too many projects. Gurrgg.
[ April 27, 2005, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Sounds fun Scott. Good luck with all that. I'd try to give advice, but I have none to give. I love your writing though, so keep it up.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Awesome! Posted by no. 6 (Member # 7753) on :
I bow in awe at your creativity, sir.
Where do you come up with all those concepts?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
From Strongverse:
quote:Dear Mr. Roberts, We have accepted your poems "Train Window Prophet," "Pie Fight on the Way to Hell," "Song of the Rivelaunt," and "Joogled by Broogles" for publication.
And from Analog (for Mouse and Elephant):
quote: . . .doesn't suit our needs
HOOORAY! And ALAS!
Already sent M&E to Strange Horizons, this time within their word count parameters. Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Go Scott!
And: e-mail the story about the Mormon werewolf once it's in a form where it needs readers.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Congrats on the acceptances and the quick turnaround on the rejection.
I know what it's like to have too many projects, so I've pretty much tabled everything right now until I finish this semester. Of course, then another semester will start....
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Congrats!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Wow! Yay!!! Oh, I'm so glad the poetry is getting published. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Lessee. . .
Sent 'Mouse and Elephant' off to Strange Horizons.
Sent 'There He Kept Her Very Well' off to Flesh and Blood Press.
Posted by Parsimony (Member # 8140) on :
::Crosses fingers::
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I'm hearing rumors that the Writers of the Future workshop and awards ceremony will be held at the Sci-fi museum in Seattle, rather than in LA.
Which kind of sucks. . . I was looking forward to inviting all the CA Jatraqueros to the book signing. I had even toyed with proposing a 'Con, as out of character as that may seem.
Alas.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Oh, yeah-- Strange Horizons rejected M&E with the following note:
"This story had a great narrative voice and a lot of interesting elements, but I didn't feel that the plot quite made sense, and overall the piece felt kind of jumbled and unfocused."
Ouch. :wince:
Flesh and Blood emailed that they were closed to subs until 9/1/05. Which was really odd, because their website said they were newly opened to subs.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I'm hearing rumors that the Writers of the Future workshop and awards ceremony will be held at the Sci-fi museum in Seattle, rather than in LA.
Which kind of sucks. . . I was looking forward to inviting all the CA Jatraqueros to the book signing. I had even toyed with proposing a 'Con, as out of character as that may seem.
Alas.
*kicks stuff* Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
This is the guy who is going to be doing the illustration for 'Blackberry Witch' in Writer's of the future.
Cool. I dig the artwork, man. I can't wait to see what he's imagined for BW; I don't think I gave him a lot to work with. . .
Got the finalized version of BW this morning, along with my bio. I'm going to seem very. . . um. . .folksy.
Posted by Parsimony (Member # 8140) on :
Awesome Scott! I can't wait to see it. Keep on trying with the others.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
You're a beekeeper, Scott. I'd call that folksy.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Whoohoo! I shall buy it at my next available opportunity.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Dude, you've arrived. I can buy your story on Amazon.com.
And I shall!!
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Cool -- congrats. So is it true that you gave props to all of us in your acceptance speech and that they had to cue the music because you were taking so long? Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Zal-- I didn't hear the music. Pfft-- I was so out of my mind with joy, I left the trophy onstage, and had to run back and get it.
You're in the acceptance speech though for doing a bang-up job as a wise reader. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
For all you writers-- Eric James Stone takes better notes than me. So if you're looking for advice, I suggest going to his website, www.ericjamesstone.com, and reading his blog. Currently, he's posted this from NASFICCon
::digs toe into dirt bashfully::
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sold 'Eviction Notice' to Intergalactic Medicine Show.
I think it's slated to appear in the first issue...
Also got a rejection from Intergalactic Medicine Show for 'Mouse and Elephant.' Alas. But I know WHY it was rejected, and that makes things better.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Well done, Scott. I look forward to reading it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by Parsimony (Member # 8140) on :
Hooray!
--ApostleRadio
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
HUZZAH! Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Congratulations Scott! I was already planning to subscribe, but if I hadn't been before I would be now.
So is "Mouse and Elephant" just not quite the right story for the magazine, or did you get some advice on how to change the story?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
The dialect interferes with the story too much. Honestly, I've gotten the same critique from a number of editors and readers-- so I'll probably wind up changing it.
It's doing me no good unsold...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
By 'dialect,' this is what I mean. These are the opening lines to 'Mouse and Elephant.'
quote: A jenny were screaming outside Anthem's shanty.
Weren’t no mind to him. He lay on his mat and tried not to hear her none, nor the men what botherated her. Anthem bit his lip there in the darkness, tapped his fingers on the floor. She weren’t naught to him. Little timmy like he, what could he do to help her ‘gainst growed men? Pssh. So he lay in the stuffy darkness and listened as she moaned and whined. One of the men spoke most harsh, and he heard a slap. The wall of his shanty shook a bit as a body fell ‘gainst it.
Enough of that. Anthem pulled on his trousers and shoes, and slipped out the shanty. He’d get on to the Bodegas, shack up there with Ojo, or maybe track down to Minor Joe’s. He could’ve lit out to Monique’s, but Theo were with her this week. Theo didn’t like him none, didn’t like being reminded that Monique weren’t no glitz. Didn’t like that Anthem called Monique momma in his sleep. Monique didn’t like that none neither— glitz were her life now, and wasn’t no glitzes what had timmies. So they paid up for him to get his own shanty, away from them. Theo liked that even less, but Anthem’d swore that he’d set the pikes on to them otherwise. So he paid.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Yeah, i see what you mean. I really like the dialect, but maybe it's too much for a short story? Sort of Clockwork Orangesque, neh?
Posted by no. 6 (Member # 7753) on :
I don't remember those days so horrorshow anymore.
And they don't call me Dim no more. "Officer" call me.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I definitely hope you change it, because I would never read a story that starts out like that. I'm not a fan of dialect at all, Hagrid's speech bothers me in Harry Potter even.
Tell the story in standard English, I say. You can give us a flavor of dialect without getting too immersed in it.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Nonsense.
It's perfectly readable.
::shakes fist at lazy readers::
I'm sorry but I think that this insistence on some relentlessly opaque style is silly. It's an overreaction to the literary elite's stupid preoccupation with style.
Now -- that said -- it is incredibly difficult to do dialect well. To make it so that what you gain from using it is worth the trouble you give to readers.
I haven't read Scott's piece so I don't know if he carries it off -- but the excerpt works with one exception.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I'd have to say as far as the excerpt goes, it does make reading it difficult. If I came upon this story in a literary magazine, I'd probably leave it for last to read, if I read it at all.
On the other hand, it does lend a certain tone and flavor to the story, which would certainly be lost if you took it out.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't, seems like.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think less is more. If you want to convey that your characters aren't that smart, or are backwards hillfolk, just pick a couple of words to misspell or something. Or structure your sentences so they match the rhythym of speech, but spell everything right.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Congratulations!
As far as dialect goes, too often it can seem like author conceit. It's not that it's difficult to read, but rather that it's difficult to surrender to the story.The Beach in King's Skeleton Crew is a good example of this. Similarly, "Black House" was atrociously hard to get into. Present tense makes it hard to suspend disbelief.
I can't judge the effect the dialect would have across the whole story in this case. But it is fraught with peril.
Again, though, congratulations on the sale!
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
The author is a storyteller, and he is relaying a story to me in a language that I can understand. A little bit of flavor and color is fine (Hagrid is not too terribly bad, I can read it, but there are times I think it's overdone) but I don't want my storyteller speaking in a dialect that's not my own. I want to be able to understand the story, and this interferes with my ability to understand the story. If wanting my storyteller to tell me a story in my own language makes me lazy, well then I'm lazy I suppose.
But it would appear that at least the editors Scott has queried agree with me, so I might be on to something.
Edit: You know, I haven't said congrats to Scott on the sale.
Congrats, Scott!
[ October 06, 2005, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Belle ]
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Nope. Those editors are short-sighted and their attitudes are reflective of the biases of a genre that doesn't rise to the heights that it has promised and too often become mired in its own devices (the resurgence in fantasy in the past decade is a notable exception).
This is not to defend literary fiction -- note that many literary writers have turned to the devices of speculative fiction in order to revitalize their work after having painted themselves into the two (sometimes opposing) corners of postmodern play and literary realism (and many of them fall flat on their face when they do so -- although I'm about 70 pages in to Roth's alternate history _The Plot Against America_ and he may just pull it off).
Language is at the base of literature; speculation is at the base of speculative fiction.
The use of speculative linguistics -- esp. futuristic dialects -- in speculative fiction should be encouraged as part of the grand, wonderful experiment that is the genre. The speculation can happen on both a plot level and a grammatical level.
Of course it needs to be done right -- thus my comments above.
Speculative fiction readers need to work a little more; literary fiction readers need to drop their pretensions and angsty-ness; and both sets of readers (and writers) need to get over themselves and be open to works that are new -- but not 'avant garde' (in the calcified sense of the word).
The response to _Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell_ heartens me in this regard.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I can't believe I'm going to argue against myself...
The thing with 'Jonathan Strange. . .' that makes the pseudo-high language acceptable is that it IS a fantasy, and set in an alternate England. If you read the book jacket, you are primed to understand the novel. It references things that are in most readers' vocabularies, though they'll have to dust off some memes to make it through.
'Mouse and Elephant,' and all my Anthem stories have no such reference. It's science fiction-- What's a timmy? What's a jennie? A glitz? Those are all words, and we're supposed to get definition from context, but none is really provided.
I DON'T want to make the audience work harder. Writing is about communication, and if something interferes with that communication, then it should be reexamined and eliminated or clarified. I've always, always believed this.
EXCEPT when it comes to my Anthem stories. I don't know why. The narrative voice just. . . flows for me. I've tried changing it to first person (OSC suggested this back in Boot Camp '03), but it doesn't feel right. I've recently begun trying to clear up the narrative and differentiate between the 3rd person limited ominiscient narrator, and Anthem's own thoughts. We'll see how it goes.
It may be that the Anthem stories (which I happen to love-- warts and all) will have to be released in an anthology after I become famous and a money-making machine. Then, they'll brand me an elitist, stylistic literati, and I'll never be able to write speculative fiction ever again.
I'll have to write :understated shudder: magical realism.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
>>But it would appear that at least the editors Scott has queried agree with me, so I might be on to something.<<
MOST of them do. Strange Horizons, Asimov's, and Sci-fiction all had problems with the weak plot, not necessarily the dialect.
But hey-- I got personal rejections from every market I sent this to (except F&SF-- rejections from them, I've decided, don't count), and they've all requested to see more.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I can read the dialect if I try hard, but it feels a little like reading Chaucer's Middle English. It's hard to hold the plot and translate at the same time! Kudos to you for actually writing it like that, and make sure you keep a copy ( ) but I can see that many people might see it and skip right over it, missing your great story... and that would be sad.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
It's like Edison said, you learn more from failure than success.
Course he also swore that DC transmission was the way to go.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
quote:I'll have to write :understated shudder: magical realism.
<grin>.
------
It's always a trade off -- the question is: is what is gained by writing in that style more valuable than what is lost in reader patience. I generally agree with OSC's remonstrations in both of his books on writing -- esp. his observation that writing in first person is rarely done well and when employed by beginning writers is often the result of laziness (because it's easier to evoke stuff and have a distinct style if you are writing in one person's voice).
My only point is that I think it's perfectly valid for speculative fiction writers to engage in specuative linguistics and that readers should exhibit some patience with them and work at it a bit.
Look. I find that after I read a lot of speculative fiction it is then more difficult for me to read literary fiction or literary criticism or philosophy. It's because I've grown lazier as a reader -- I've become too used to the easy style, fun plotting and emotional payoffs of most works of qood speculative fiction (all good qualities that I am happy to defend against literary snobs).
I suppose I could choose to not read more difficult stuff -- but then I miss out some good (and, imo, needed) reading experiences.
The point -- and I think that most of you would agree with me on this (I'm not looking for a fight -- just to make myself understood) -- is that it's good to be omnivorous in your reading and to challenge yourself every once in a while.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
SIX pages.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
What are you doing posting fluff, Scott?
Back to the grindstone! We need our next fix.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You're not so old that I won't eat you, Zal.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Hey -- I'll be 15 next May. I'm clearly not a baby.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
15? Pshaw.
You might as well be six.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I've developed a palate for mature babies.
Anyone under 40 is fair game.
Learned it from Slash.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Oh, I swooon.
I got a jpeg of the art for 'Eviction Notice.' I'm very, very, happy with it.
I got OSC's permission to use it on my website as a link to IGMS.
Oh, how cool! Congratulations!! Posted by accio (Member # 3040) on :
Congratulations!! Writers’ Resources link does not work though.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I'll be signing copies of Writers of the Future XXI in Richmond, VA tomorrow between 2p-4p.
Here's the address:
Books-A-Million 9131 Midlothain Turnpike Richmond, VA 23235 PHONE #: 804-272-1792
I'll also be doing a reading there of 'Blackberry Witch.'
Come and take pity on me.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, very cool! *beams*
I won't be there, though.
Wait...does this mean you are willing to meet Hatrackers now? As long as they are clapping for you?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well. . . it means that if I happen to run into you in the store, and we are able to identify one another as Jatraqueros, I won't run away screaming.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Whenever I shop in Virginia, which hasn't happened yet but it's a long life so you never know, I will wear my KamaCon in the event of just such an occurrence. The KamaCon shirt with the logo. To prevent the running and screaming.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
My goodness; it's lovely. ScottR may be my favorite living poet. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Aw, shucks... Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Dangit.
Dangit.
Dangit.
Why don't I live in Virginia?
*shakes fist
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Because you live in Canada now.
Just in case you forgot. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I sold one book.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Joogled By Broogles is live on Strongverse.org right now!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Tangent Online has a review of the seven short stories in IGMS.
Here's the one for Eviction Notice:
quote: Rick Manchester is the regret-filled protagonist of Scott M. Roberts’s story, “Eviction Notice.” He sees himself as a failed soldier, husband, and father. Facing eviction from the home which holds many powerful memories for him, Rick must confront his inner demons to save himself and the soul of his dead son, Tommy.
Roberts delivers lean, visceral prose full of memorable images: the demon who feeds off misery, Quincy Umble, symbolically castrates Rick by cutting off his beard with a combat knife; Tommy’s ghost is trapped in a dumbwaiter; dark butterflies signal the arrival of evil. Roberts’s skill is also evident in the fact that Rick, a man who has done despicable things and seems beyond redemption, wins the reader’s sympathy and approval. It’s also refreshing to read a story which assumes some intelligence on the part of the reader: exposition is delivered with subtlety, not a spoon. “Eviction Notice” is an unqualified success.
Hear that? I'm an unqualified success!
Erm. . .well, my story is anyway. . . UNQUALIFIED! SUCCESS!
Plus, how cool is it that the reviewer referred to me as 'Roberts.' Like with my last name, like I was some sort of. . . professional writer, or some junk?
:cavorts:
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
*applauds*
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
*cheering* Awesome review for an awesome story!
Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 5938) on :
I don't know, Scott. The review seems a little negative, based on the parts I've excerpted below:
quote:Scott M. Roberts ... sees himself as a ... demon who feeds off ... dark butterflies ... of evil. Roberts ... is also ... a man who has done despicable things... with ... a spoon.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
SR: *claps* That's wonderful!!
EJS: That's also wonderful, in a completely twisted way. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Very cool!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Just finished 'Out of the Deep Have I Howled Unto Thee.' The working title was 'Lead Kindly Light.'
Here's an excerpt:
quote:The small things, that’s what Clark concentrated on. Never mind the wolf scratching at the insides of his hands, never mind the sound of its breath in his throat, the desire to hang his tongue out and let it loll. Never mind the way the moon, the full moon, tugged at his skin.
External things. Things outside of him, things beyond the reach of the wolf. The motorcycle, for one, his tools for another. The way the transmission rested in his hands. (Don’t think on the hands, no, that will lead to the wolf, the wolf...) The transmission. Rebuilt now, and it had taken him almost all night, but he had done it. He’d fought off the wolf all night by focusing on small things. The devil was in the details, but the wolf, thank God, was not. And maybe, tonight, the devil wasn’t in the details either. Tonight... God was in the details. God in the chrome, God in the gears, God in the grease and bolts and bits of everything that he touched.
Even as he thought it, he knew that that was another pathway to the wolf. Thinking about touching, about his fingers, his skin, the stripe of grease that was somehow on his lips... Clark felt an itch in the back of his throat to lick the grease, but stopped himself.
If anyone is interested in critiquing, email me at jbeekeeper at yahoo dot com.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*so tempted*
*so very tempted*
*puts fingers in ears and hums*
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
*laughs at rivka*
*finds herself being pulled in*
No. No. Must. Write. Own. Stuff.
*plugs ears and thinks about plot for All the World's a Stage...
*flees thread*
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I got some useful critiques back, edited 'Out of the Deep' and sent it off to F&SF...
My fingers is all crossed.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Scott, I've been pretty horribly delinquent in getting a critique written. Would it still be useful to you for me to finish it?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Sure. F&SF's slush pile is managed by the inestimable and cyborgly John Joseph Adams; I fully expect OotD to be rejected today, and returned to me by Monday, whereupon I shall practice further editing skillz before sending it off to Strange Horizons.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Okay, I'll get to work. Sorry for taking so long with it, by the way.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
S'okay. Take your time, Noemon. I hope you enjoy it!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I did--quite a bit, actually. My mistake was in not writing the critique immediately after I finished the story.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Hey, I missed this first time around. If you want another critique, send me a copy. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Did the critiques that you'd already received prompt you to make any substantial changes to the story, Scott?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
oooooo ... Scotticitiousness ... Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Scott,
Oh man, I feel bad. I did finish reading Out of the Deep. I just haven't written up my critique yet. I really enjoyed the story. It is a very interesting take on an old story idea. (Okay... old is such a relative term.) Good luck with your submission.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
It's okay people. I worked my mojo already. The story is now perfect (assuming Scott takes care of that one thing). Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Well, it wasn't perfect enough, Zal, alas.
I got it back from F&SF on Monday with a form rejection.
I cut 300 words from it this morning, and will be sending it out to Strange Horizons here in a bit.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Did you ever get my "critique"?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I really liked the plot, feel, and language of "Blackberry Witch," and it's exactly along the lines of this new speculative fiction line. Are you currently working on a novel (or anthology of short stories), or do you have a novel that you're shopping around? If so, I'd love to see it!
This came in about an hour ago. It appears to be the real deal, from a real publisher.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Er . . . so do you have a novel or novel-in-progress to send?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Cool on yer! Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's fantastic, Scott, assuming that you've got something to show him (and still pretty great, even if you don't).
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Go, ninja, go!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
That's not disturbing! That's awesome!!! So yeah, hopefully you've got something in the works... Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I do not have a finished novel. Hence the
Advice from pros I knows says to blurb what I have in development, and ask if there are any projects that I can work on.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea. It's going to take a bit.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Go Scott! That is GREAT!
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Hooray! That's excellent, Scott! I hope something comes of it.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Congrats!
Sounds like good advice. They know you can write in the vein that they are interested in. I would imagine that a well-thought-out pitch (i.e. concept and basic plot for a novel) would be more attractive to them than a novel (or part of a novel) that doesn't fit in with the market they're trying to capture.
I'd spend more time coming up with a really great pitch than trying to hurry more blurbable passages into production.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks, Zal-- I've been at designing a pitch since about 1400 this afternoon...
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Keep working at that pitch. This is extremely promising and I'm very happy for you.
When you're rich and well published and famous, will you blurb for my upcoming novels (assuming I ever finish one?) Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Yes.
But only if they're given to me as audiobooks...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Got a rejection from Strange Horizons for "Out of the Deep..."
Sent it off again to Realms of Fantasy this afternoon.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I made some cosmetic changes to the 'Frivel and Schleck' portion of my website:
Rejection from Realms of Fantasy for 'Out of the Deep Have I Howled Unto Thee.' Also the advice to shorten it up a bit...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Growl.
I cut two pages and sent it off to Intergalactic Medicine Show.
Two. Pages.
Ow. Ow. Ow.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
If IGMS doesn't take it, Popcorn Popping will. I would love to publish another Mormon-tinged work of speculative fiction. Most of what we have now is poetry, personal essay and realism fiction [that's my term for non-genre short fiction that attempts to locate it's time, place and characters in the stream of 'real' history].
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
In an effort to avoid writing a novel, I've made business cards.
I'm planning on going to Trinoc*Con in Raleigh on the 21-23 of this month; it's my first con, having skipped out on Balticon for the past...ermm...lots of years. I want to be able to say, "Well, I don't have a novel for sale, but look at these nifty business cards! I used Photoshop."
I'm pathetic.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
For those interested, I posted my thoughts on the DaVinci Code on my blog. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I read the first page of both Eragon and The Da Vinci Code and found them both unreadable, but Eragorn moreso. I'm surprised you found Da Vinci Code worse.
Having read both of them, I'm sure you have a better handle on it than I do, I just found it interesting.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
It IS interesting. I was expecting to like DaVinci Code more. Alas-- both authors failed for me, but Brown moreso.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I am giving a go at my own webcomic. I've got the characters and plot mostly developed, and am looking for an outstanding artist (or artists) to share the project with me.
Here is the plot write-up for the first chapter in the series. There's about seven pages of documentation behind this-- if you're interested in this project, email me at j b e e k e e p e r (at) ya hoo (dot) com, and I'll send you what I've developed.
quote:BRIEF PLOT OUTLINE
I. HOMES AND OTHER EXTREMELY DANGEROUS PLACES
CHAPTER 1: LOOK HOMEWARD, ANGELA: The ship and crew are introduced as they fly back to Earth to fulfill the Yancy Darrow’s obligation to pick up one more shipment of colonists. Angela’s mother calls her and tells her that her father and her have some important news; nervous of meeting her parents again, Angela brings Jonah along. Angela discovers that her parents are expecting their fifth child. She is mortified, but receives another shock when she learns that they are joining the crew of the Yancy Darrow, as émigrés. Not only her parents, but her two younger brothers, Emmanuel and Ephraim will be joining.
CHAPTER 2: BOYS WILL BE BOYS: As the Yancy Darrow prepares for departure, the scientists the crew will be transporting arrive. Angela’s family is already on board, driving Angela insane. To make matters worse, her brother, Ephraim, and Jonah have been spending time together. Their friendship has unexpected and dangerous results on the Shipmate, as he begins to regress to a childlike mental state.
CHAPTER 3: THE ANATOMY OF MELANCHOLY: After launch, four of the scientists hijack the ship, wounding Captain Harris and taking January Karl hostage. As Angela and Jonah work to appease, stop, or kill them, Jonah’s sim begins to suffer delusions, mood swings and blackouts.
CHAPTER 4: JIGGETY-JOG: The scientists steal Jonah’s brain and his Sim, and force Brett to shuttle them to their colony. The crew of the Yancy Darrow must rescue him before they can implant him in their base.
Here is my write-up of the first strip:
quote:GREPPERS #1
OPENS ON THE YANCY DARROW FLOATING IN SPACE. IN THE BACKGROUND IS THE HORSEHEAD NEBULA AND THE CAS SPACE STATION.
ZOOM TO SHOW ANGELA WATCHING THE YANCY DARROW APPROACH THE SPACE STATION. HER MOUTH IS SLIGHTLY OPEN. SHE IS HOLDING A DUFFEL BAG, AND IS WEARING A LOOSELY FITTING JUMPSUIT. A PAIR OF GOGGLES DANGLE AROUND HER NECK. THERE IS A SMUDGE OF GREASE BELOW HER RIGHT EYE.
THE YANCY DARROW DOCKS; ANGELA MOVES UP TO THE AIRLOCK AND WATCHES THE CREW EXIT. NO ONE SEEMS TO NOTICE HER. WHEN THEY’VE ALL COME THROUGH, ANGELA ENTERS.
ANGELA (thinking): The Yancy Darrow. Advanced exploration and surveying vessel. Hull length one-quarter mile. Width, one-hundred yards.
SHE SEES A SIGN LABELLED “BRIDGE” WITH AN ARROW POINTING DOWN THE HALL. THE WORDS “ENGINE ROOM” ARE DIRECTLY BENEATH IT.
ANGELA (thinking): Four primary launch engines, CAS Dion 1660s, six maneuvering thrusters, Bolshevik Hardies, 880s.
SHE WALKS ON, IN THE DIRECTION OF THE BRIDGE. SHE PASSES A SIGN POINTING THE WAY TO THE SERVER ROOM.
ANGELA (thinking): Operating system… probably Gator. Or Jingo.
SHE SEES A SIGN BENEATH THE SERVER ROOM SIGN, HAND-WRITTEN. IT SAYS, ‘GREP JAN FOR A GOODE THYME.’
ANGELA (thinking): Definitely Jingo.
CONTINUES WALKING. THERES A SIGN POINTING THE WAY TO THE BRIDGE AND THE HEAD; THERE ARE ALSO SIGNS FOR CREW QUARTERS, REC ROOMS, CARGO HOLDS… SHE HAS COME TO THE CENTER OF THE SHIP.
ANGELA (thinking): Daven lifesupport systems, Trell air circulation, Strafer torpedoes… the best. Everything is just like Mrs. Robbards said. Fully equipped, fully refitted…
SHE PASSES A DOOR WITH A MALE/FEMALE SIGN ON IT—OBVIOUSLY THE BATHROOM.
VOICE: Toilet paper! We're out of toilet paper AGAIN!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I found someone in DeviantArt who liked 'Pie Fight on the Way to Hell.'
I read Eviction Notice, and it was Brilliant. Is it at all possible for me to get on the list of people you send drafts out to for critiques?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
cheiros:
I usually announce here when I get something finished, and offer it to folks for a read.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I've finished the script for the first 20 episodes of 'Shipmates' or 'Greppers' or 'Yancy Darrow' or whatever the heck I'm going to wind up calling this strip.
Who wants to take a look?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Me. Actively. But I realize that my track record for actually providing feedback is...spotty.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, I want to read it. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Hey, guys-- send me an email at jbeekeeper at yahoo for the script.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Sent.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
And sent.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Aaaand...received. Thanks! I'll start in on it today if work permits, or tonight if it doesn't.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
EDIT: Going to send you an e-mail...
EDIT #2: Er, I didn't sign it as Teshi (oops), but it'll probably be obvious that I'm not some crazy spammer.
[ August 31, 2006, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Odd... when I posted the post above, the thread didn't appear on the first page...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I got a nice rejection notice from Intergalactic Medicine show for Out of the Deep Have I Howled Unto Thee.
Ah, well. We'll see how it does at Asimov's.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You're kidding! I loved that story.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
So did the editor, apparently. But it just wouldn't fit anywhere in the magazine's line up for the next year.
I'm satisfied with the way this turned out. Well-- not satisfied. But I'm okay with it. I sent it to Asimov's this afternoon, so who knows?
Maybe I'll have my second SFWA qualifying publication in another three months...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I just posted a series of serious posts on my blog.
I'm kind of disappointed in the last one. When Blackberry Witch came out, a lot of our friends (non-genre types) read it and approached my wife with the following statement, "I had no idea Scott was so...weird."
It bugged me more than it should have. It bugged me enough that I didn't really market the sale of Eviction Notice to our friends the way I did Blackberry Witch.
The question of Evil in Fiction still bothers me; it's the biggest quandry I have when writing. How dark do I go?
Form rejection from Asimov's for 'Out of the Deep.'
Nuts.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Man, this has got me bugged.
BUT--
Back into the waters. I'm sending this off to Interzone tomorrow.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Good on ya.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:Form rejection from Asimov's for 'Out of the Deep.'
I'm waiting for a response from Asimov's... O.o
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
From what I've been able to tell from other acquaintances, accepts and rejects are both running about 90 days.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Oh yikes, that's longer than I gathered. Thanks for letting me know. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
3 months is pretty much the industry standard, unless you're talking about the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. They have a turnaround on rejections that's nothing short of depressing-- like 6 days.
It's mostly because JJA (the Slushgod) knows what he wants, I think, and works hard at his job.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Ermmf...
I cut another 1000 words from Out of the Deep, and sent it to Pedestal magazine.
Pedestal has got a reputation for being a little more literary and psychological; OOTD fits the psychological end of things. Like Eviction Notice, I didn't make it terribly clear whether or not the protagonist is suffering from actual, literal lycanthropy, or if it's all just a figment of his imagination.
An extremely lucid, agony filled, terrible figment...
Anyway. Pedestal pays more than Interzone, and is on SFFWA's list of pro-publications. They also accept email submissions, which is handy. So off it goes. If it's a no-go there, I'll probably sit on it until Baen's Universe opens up again.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I bought the Writers of the Future book with your short story in it recently. It's wonderful - it's been my book on the bus since I picked it up. Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Hey, good luck with Pedestal. I don't yet know anyone who has gotten an acceptance there, so that would be cool if you did.
How did you manage to cut half of the words out? Will you be keeping it at the shorter length, or is that just for Pedestal?
--Mel
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I bought the Writers of the Future book with your short story in it recently. It's wonderful - it's been my book on the bus since I picked it up.
If you want to meet in Pentagon City mall sometime, I'd sign it for you.
Yes, my egocentricity overcomes my aversion to meeting people.
quote:How did you manage to cut half of the words out?
Err...I didn't cut half the words out. When I finished my first draft of OOTD, it was around 8k words. I've only trimmed it down by 2000; my preference is for the version I sent to Asimov's, which was 7000 words.
But alas-- most markets want stories shorter than 5000 words.
To trim the story, I use a technique espoused by Jerry Pournelle. I read the whole story out loud. Anywhere I wince, I remove.
Then I edit my style. That's where it really starts to hurt. I use lots of short, descriptive sentences to describe thoughts and emotions-- but I sometimes add too much description. So I cull the weakest.
quote:Will you be keeping it at the shorter length, or is that just for Pedestal?
I don't know. I will probably keep it at the shorter length, even though I *like* the things I've had to remove. Shorter short stories are easier to sell. Maybe if I'd trimmed this much off of it before sending it out, I'd have sold it to F&SF...
:shrug:
Yeah. I don't know.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Woah. Sure. That would be incredibly cool. Tell me when - I can practically walk there.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Oh, sorry, I was thinking that Pedestal was one of the "flash only" markets, and I knew they had a firm limit of 1000 words for flash. So when you said you cut 1000 words out...my response was "yikes!"
quote:Shorter short stories are easier to sell. Maybe if I'd trimmed this much off of it before sending it out, I'd have sold it to F&SF...
I think that's true in general, but do you know Alliette de Bodard? Her "short stories" tend to turn into novelletes and novellas, but recently she's been finding markets for them even at that length. Still hasn't cracked F&SF, though, so there is that.
--Mel
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I *do* know Alliette. She's pretty fantastic.
She recently won a place in this year's Writers of the Future.
kat:
Let me stew on this a bit-- I'll need to carve some time out during my lunch schedule.
It'd be neat if we could get Dagonee or other DC based Jatraqueros to come; I'm really only available for lunchtime stuff.
Oh, noes. I'm coming out of my shell.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
I'll come! But it would have to be early next week, because I'm leaving...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
How about Monday at around 11:30? I'm less than a block away from Pentagon City...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I can do that - I can take the train right to Pentagon City. 11:30 Monday, then?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Yep.
Did anyone have anything in mind as to what to do? I don't really know the area that well-- it's tragic, really, I bring my lunch from home, eat it at my desk, and head home as soon as I get off work.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
I think I can do that.
If you want to grab lunch, there's tons of places - food court if you want that, or California Pizza Kitchen/Johnny Rocket's/Ruby Tuesday's if you want to sit down.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
There's also a Thai place nearby that isn't terrible.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
I *love* Thai food...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:embarrassed:
Oops-- Monday is a holiday; I won't be in town.
Can we make it for Tuesday instead?
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I must say...
I'm highly, highly disappointed in you Scott.
But I'm willing to overlook this lapse in judgment if you continue to create stories on par with "Out of the Deep" -- which is fantastic and should be published.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Thanks, Zal-- your encouragement means a lot.
Rivka:
Alas!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
So is everyone okay for meeting on Tuesday?
Where do we want to congregate?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm up for meeting on Tuesday.
We have the choice of an outside restaraunt, a restaurant inside the mall, Panera Bread or rotisserie chicken, or the food court where people can get whatever they want.
My feeling is for panera bread since they have a little of everything, is not too expensive, and is small enough that we can find each other even without the turkey-red skirt I plan on wearing.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
There's a Panera around here?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
....No. I was thinking of the Ballston mall.
Hmm...on the bottom floor, then? By the...smoothie place...the name of which I cannot remember.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
All right-- 1130 by the anonymous smoothie place.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You'll be able to recognize me by the blue shirt and green and dark blue tie.
A tie. I wore a freaking tie, today...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You'll recognize me by the glasses, black pants, white shirt, and brightly-colored sweater.
...which description applies to, I swear, 75% of DC's female population. Okay. The sweater is purple, and my hair's a mess because I didn't bring my brush and someone opened the windows on the bus.
I think it's a smoothie place. It's definitely in the middle of the food court, not up against the sides.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh...I was so late. I wasn't going to be. I was going to be only about five minutes late. But when I got to L'Enfant plaza, the yellow line was delayed and I had to wait TWENTY MINUTES for the next train to come, so I didn't get there until basically noon. Fortunately, the honorable Scott M. Roberts was around anyway and we got to chat about his book and Virginia and writing and tech writing and fiction in the New Yorker for a little while before work beckoned again. Very cool.
I totally forgot half the things I was going to ask - I was going to ask about the poetry and how that was going and try to do some not-so-subtle pleading for a collection of SMR's poetry. Also, the source of nicknames for the kids and what the church is like in Central Virginia - if it's the way it is here in the metro area - and everything.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You'll find I'm much more charming online than in person. In person, I'm antsy, combustible, and slightly nauseous.
Also, not nearly as articulate or dashing.
quote:I was going to ask about the poetry and how that was going and try to do some not-so-subtle pleading for a collection of SMR's poetry.
As far as a poetry collection goes, I haven't given it much thought, honestly. You can find all my free stuff on my website-- www.lordofallfools.com-- under the Frivel & Schleck section. Collect away.
I have finished with the updating. My entire site is now a glorious...unified...thing.
I'm going to be adding some exciting new...things...to it when I get around to it.
Like, changing the order of the items in the menu. Ooo...
And, yes, my dumplings, there will be easter eggs.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
To promote both the redesign of www.lordofallfools, and to hopefully find me an artist, I've put the premise, character descriptions, and 8 pages of the script for my webcomic Shipmates on my website.
Go enjoy it here.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Eviction Notice will be reprinted in the IGMS anthology published by Tor.
w00t!
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Eviction Notice will be reprinted in the IGMS anthology published by Tor.
w00t!
Nice going Scott!
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Congratulations. And the site looks great.
Send me something to respond to when you get a chance. :-)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
The story that started off this thread is being revisited whilst I charge my novel-writing batteries.
Yes. I'm rewriting Mouse and Elephant.
One of the things that Olivet mentioned and that really stuck with me was that Anthem and Elephant Girl's relationship seemed contrived, and far too simple. And I think she's right-- Anthem goes from being a suspicious, paranoid, little freak of a kid, to loving this Hindu-goddess/gang leader in the space of about an hour. He abandons his real mother, Monique, far too quickly for the amount of story time spent on pining over her in the first place.
Another thing I realized...the nanotechnology was a macguffin. Really, it didn't serve any purpose but to get Anthem to explore his relationship with his mothers. So, while the nanotech makes an appearance, the thrust of the new story will be less on earrings that can mimic the effects of drugs, and more on mothers and sons.
Here's a snippet:
quote: The pikes kept him in a cell all his own, dressed in naught but what he’d been shoved into the skip with—just his skivvies, mainly. After four hours, they brought him some of his clothes. They stunk of that woman’s vomit. When he was dressed, two men in suits came into his cell, gave him some coffee and some chocolate, and asked him more questions.
Anthem knowed to keep his mouth shut. The coffee smelled fine, better than fine, it was…everything. But he let it sit there, steaming, filling up his nostrils with its fine-ness. Don’t even look at it, and don’t look at them men none at all, eyes down. Just like in his shanty. Eyes away.
They asked him ‘bout his momma, Monique. They asked him ‘bout her pimp, Theo. They asked him how he killed them two in the shanty, and then they switched it all ‘round, and said as it was really Monique and Theo dead in that shanty, and he didn’t recognize them none at all, ‘cause it’d been a while since he’d saw them either one, and he’d killed them. Or maybe they’d come to jig him out, and there’d been a fight, and someone else had killed them, and speak up, mouse!
But Anthem just tucked hisself into hisself. He knowed to keep his mouth shut.
One of the pikes slapped him. Then the other one was hauling the pike who’d smacked him out of the cell, as Anthem found hisself on the floor, and the coffee spilled all over him, and that wasn’t the only thing, ‘cause it’d been hours, days, years, since he’d gone to the bathroom and when he got hit, he couldn’t keep it in him no more, and he couldn’t stop it once it started. So he smelled of puke and piss, and cold coffee, and what was worse, he could feel his chest start to hitch, feel the scratchiness of his own fear crawling in his throat, and if he cried, if he let it poke even a little out of his throat, that’d be the end of him. The pikes would set on him then, they’d drag it all out, and he’d be dead by morning.
But he didn’t cry. And when the pikes knowed that he wasn’t going to, they closed up the door to the cell and left him lonely.
All of this is to prep you lot for the day when I finish it, so you can clamor for first-reader spots. Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
::clamors::
(Great word that -- the noun form is in the title of a strange, little short story that I've been thinking of re-kick-starting. I think I will.)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Mouse and Elephant is turning into a novel, to be written after I finish the Lord of All Fools series.
:sigh:
I tried to make it a short story, but there's too much story there to fit into < 7000 words. Or maybe I'm just not ready to simplify the plot.
Also, I want to point out the inherent irony of this thread, considering other conversations going on on this board.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Creaking and rattling, binging and banging, Gyroscopes spinning and rattler-heads hanging, Out of the star-wastes with wagons in tow, Swoops the Intergalactic Medicine Show!
Monsters they have, both human and not, Truths in a can, and Lies in a pot. A spaceship, a ghost, a traitor, and more-- Elixers and tonics and philtres galore!
All for your drinking! All for your pleasure! We offer for pennies our lies full of treasure! Guaranteed healthy, (at least for a minute), Depthless and strong is the medicine in it.
________________
The IGMS anthology hits bookstores tomorrow.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Congratulations!!! That's great news! Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
It's been a while since I updated this thread, but I've got a question that I think Jatraqueros might be able to answer.
Can anyone point me toward a resource that discusses Christian pacifism? I'm looking specifically for doctrines that call for complete pacifism, not just abstaining from military service and war, but also from violently defending oneself and one's family from harm/evil.
I need to know the scriptural rationale for such a stance and how they'd answer passages of scripture that seem to contradict that stance.
I've looked briefly at Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites-- there's some stuff there that works for what I want it to, but I couldn't find a direct source saying that they abstained from all violent conflict.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
There's the Anti-Nephi-Lehis in the Book of Mormon, though their philosophy isn't really carefully disected so much as simply said to be superior to the Nephites.
Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman has some sections that discuss Joseph Smith struggling with the concept of self-defense and yet not taking a life to preserve your own.
I was also under the impression that the Jesuit order espouses complete non-violence in their ministrations. A fantastic movie that discusses the Christian response to violence is Of Gods and Men. There is also the movie The Mission with Jeremy Irons and Robert De Niro. Again though, those movies present the contrasting philosophies, but they don't dissect their shortcomings and strengths in detail.
edit: But they are both based on true stories so that makes them at least applicable.
[ September 12, 2011, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Stone_Wolf--
Yeah, wiki's always the first place I look. Touched that one this morning, and unfortunately, it's not much help.
BB:
I'll look up the Jesuits, but I thought they were involved in some of the revolutions in France.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Scott: I might be mistaken, Jesuits have certainly been involved in violent plots, but I seem to recall that many Jesuits have written on the topic of non-violence. On their wikipedia page I don't find any specific stance on violence.
Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
I don't know how useful it is, but looks like there are some articles at the website Center for Christian Nonviolence.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
CT
Thanks. It looks like the articles do not explain the doctrine behind nonviolence but assume that the reader is already an adherent. I will keep reading.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
) but it was EXTREMELY enjoyable as far as I read...![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
((((((Scott)))))) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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*scratches head* It's all very odd. I wouldn't know what to think about it either.![[Sleep]](graemlins/sleep.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
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![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
)![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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