Is it irresponsible journalism to publish his name--and where he works, no less?
I think so. People in the stadium were throwing beer at him and chanting "Kill him" as he was escorted out for his own safety.
Were his actions completely natural/instinctive, and would most people have done the same in his place?
I think so. It looked like the Cubs were going to the world series, and the curse might be over. Every foul ball, every ticket stub, every program would have been a treasured keepsake. And I think if you go to a baseball game, it's only natural to want to get your hands on a ball if it comes your way. I doubt he had time to think about it.
I've been listening to national sports radio personalities crucifying this guy, characterizing him with no way of knowing whether they are accurate characterizations or not. Isn't this inciting the people who will destroy this guy's life? Shouldn't professionals know better?
Is it this guy's fault the Cubs lost?
I don't think so. What about the double play that would have ended the inning? What about any of the other opportunities to stop this rally the Cubs squandered? Heck, it's not like this interference caused a base hit or a home run . . . it was just a foul ball!
Did the umps blow the call?
This one is more debatable. I don't think the visiting team should ever be penalized for fan interference, so I think they made the right call, but then again, I'm a homer on this one.
quote:Cohen's description of Bartman was echoed by a parent whose son played baseball for the Renegades last year.
"He was a fine guy. He was a good baseball coach to my son," Roger Shimanovsky, 41, said. "Believe me, I'm sure nobody feels worse about this than him." [emphasis added]
What, is he dead now?
[ October 15, 2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Megachirops ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Wordman:
"Word."
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I think that it's quite possible that if the fan hadn't interfered, the Cubs would be on their way to the world series now. But I do not think that the fan cost them the series. As was pointed out, the game was lost by a series of bad plays (and good ones by the Marlins); though they might not of occured if it weren't for the interference, the fan did not make them screw up, they were plenty good at that themselves.
Hobbes Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
You've got to realize that there's a big wall right there... he may have not even realized the player was even attempting to catch it until too late. After all, it was no longer over the field when he touched it.
Posted by slacker (Member # 2559) on :
I don't think it's the fan's fault at all. Looking at the pictures from other angles, the guy didn't seem to be trying that hard to catch the ball. Furthermore, if it had been a case of fan interference, shouldn't the ump have called it?
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
quote:After all, it was no longer over the field when he touched it.
I find that to be too hard to call, but if it's true, then it is not, by definition, interference, and so not a blown call.
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
Who cares if it was the fault of the fan? It's a game played by a bunch of people I've never met. What would make me want to murder someone over the outcome? The mindframe of these idiots absolutely blows my mind. How is their life going to change if these strangers win this game? I can just hear it now. "Yay! Some people that live in my city fared better than some people that live in your city in a sporting competition! This makes me your superior in every important way! Suck that, loser!" In comparison, this makes buying a big SUV seem like a sensible way to compensate for... personal inadequacy.
The way I figure it, if Ken Griffey Jr. comes over to my house to watch me play Tekken with my friends, I'll watch him play his game with his friends. Until then, what's the point? If some people find this pursuit entertaining, that's fine, but it's not a matter of life and death. I'm glad this dude screwed up the game. Maybe it'll teach them some perspective.
[ October 15, 2003, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Speed ]
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Brilliant post!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
The Fan is going to make a bundle of money, I'd wager.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Depends on what happens in this game.
If the Cubs lose, life could get (even more) unpleasant for him. Have you read articles about how haunted Bill Buckner was? And he was a player!
His best hope right now is this pity meme that the announcers are pushing.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Or moving to Miami.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:He's dead to Chicagoans, and that's all that matters.
And, remember, they still haven't found Jimmy Hoffa.
I heard on the news today that Jeb Bush offered the guy asylum in Florida.
Other Floridians offered him free steak dinners and even time at a beachfront condo.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I think it's safe to say that any real Chicagoan would choose death at the hands of an angry mob over moving to Miami. Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Are you kidding? Miami has so much to offer that Chicago simply does not . . . like a team that is going to the World Series!
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
i try to avoid watching the news if i can. i do appreciate being alerted to something major, though. i read the article that the first post linked to and the piece of information that jumped out at me was that the loss of the game forced a game 7. so while i agree that the fan didn't lose the game, the cubs did, the point is that they lost that game. they still have (or by the looks of it at this point, had) another chance for the series. i realize that teams in a series like to win without playing all 7 games, but come on. lambaste an innocent guy for "ruining" what wasn't even a last shot? i don't doubt that the incident indirectly led to the cubs demise by shocking the momentum and morale out of them, but if that one moment can knock them down, then maybe they really aren't the better team...
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
The local news just showed scenes from Bartman's exit from the stadium yesterday, interviews with harrassing Cub fans--including a guy who tried to steal his sweater and was proud of his own actions--and the governor of Illinois, etc.
Wow. It's as bad as I thought.
Poor guy.
He really should move.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
That is just ridiculous. Now I hope he DOES make a ton of money.
People forget that baseball is a team sport. Every pitch, every simple catch of a pop ball, every "at bat" is as important as the next one, and the last one.
Argh. Poor guy.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Icarus is the babalo. There you have it, it had nothing to do with "the fan"
AJ
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Darn straight.
::crosses arms::
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I think the media acted irresponsibly in releasing this guy's name, place of business, and home address. That was really uncalled for.
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
Ticket to a championship series game: $50. Cubs baseball hat: $14. Stadium hot dog: $3. Ruining the Cubs' chance at going to the World Series: Priceless.
There are just some things money can't buy. For everything else, there are long hours to pay off credit card debt.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
$3 for a stadium hot dog? Maybe if you found a half-eaten one in the urinal...
[ October 17, 2003, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Speed ]
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote: The Fan is going to make a bundle of money, I'd wager.
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