quote: "I see us sitting on a couch on a cool mountain night, in front of a fire with only the flames, a blanket, and each other for warmth. You are curled up next to me on the couch with your head on my shoulder, and I have my arm around you, holding you close. We are talking about little nothings, and I am satisfied merely to listen to your voice and feel you close. After a while I stop watching the flames of the fire and watch with eyes only for you. In time you notice my attention, and return my gaze. For what seems like forever, nothing is said with voice, only with looks. Eventually, I give up resisting myself and lean over to kiss you. You return the expression and friendship, and we both find ourselves content to fall asleep beside each other in the dying flames and glowing embers of the fire."
[ October 20, 2003, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Saxon75: 52 Sarcasticmuppet: 50 ½ Jeniwren: 40 Rivka: 42 ½ Eslaine: 38 ½ Christy: 30 Ophelia: 29 Deirdre: 25 Advice for Robots: 23 Noemon: 20 ½ Ryuko: 20 Caleb: 16 Belle: 16 Celia: 16 Mackillian: 15½ Morbo: 15 ½ Irami: 15 Teshi: 14 Annie: 13 Sopwith: 12 Dan Raven 11 ½ Fugu: 10 Twinky: 10 Tom Davidson: 8 ½ Scott R: 8 Leonide: 8 Nick: 7 ½ BannaOJ: 6 Katharina: 6 T Smith: 5 ½ Jon Boy: 5 Hobbes: 5 Human 4½ esl: 4 ½ Ethics Gradient: 4 ½ Enjeeo: 4 ½ Fitz: 3 Beren One Hand: 2 Jaiden: 2 Blacwolve: 2 GreNME: 2 Kayla 1½ Papa Moose: 1 Locke: 1 Filetted: 1 Kwsni: 1 Pooka: ½ Punchdrunk: ½
Five points for a correct guess with either rationale for the guess or a critique of the story Two points for any guess with a critique One point for any guess with a rationale A for any guess with neither critique nor rationale
[ October 21, 2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Mmmm. I like this. It sets a lovely mood.
jeniwren?
Posted by Emperor Palpatine (Member # 3544) on :
quote:You return the expression and friendship, and we both find ourselves content to fall asleep beside each other in the dying flames and glowing embers of the fire
Oooouuch.
Seems like a young writer, the "little nothings" line makes it sound feminine, and it shows aspiration, with both effective imagery and the ineffective repetition of close.
I'll say Dragon.
[ October 20, 2003, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Emperor Palpatine ]
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Saxon's ahead of me?!? No way!
Something makes me think the narrator is female, even though it doesn't really say. The fact that it starts out with "I see us" is probably what made me think of a poetic and hormonal teenaged girl, probably aged 13 or 14.
I guess Rivka.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I still don't see why tiger points don't carry over.
Hobbes Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: . . . made me think of a poetic and hormonal teenaged girl, probably aged 13 or 14.
I guess Rivka.
O_o
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
I meant the narrator, sillyness!
Posted by Wetchik (Member # 3609) on :
IndexCard?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No to everyone, and five non-refundable tiger points to Hobbes. Just because.
Oh, and a to Wetchik for a guess with no critique or reason given.
[ October 21, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Awww! (((((dkw)))))
Hobbes Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I agree that this author seems to be female. Forgive my sexism, but it seems unlikely to me that a man would wax so lyrical about cuddling on a couch.
porce?
Posted by Wetchik (Member # 3609) on :
quote: No to everyone, and five non-refundable tiger points to Hobbes. Just because.
Oh, and a to Wetchik for a guess with no critique or reason given.
Sorry, dkw. I didn't know you HAD to include reason/analyzation. Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
*cough*
quote: Five points for a correct guess with either rationale for the guess or a critique of the story Two points for any guess with a critique One point for any guess with a rationale A for any guess with neither critique nor rationale
/*cough*
[ October 21, 2003, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: sarcasticmuppet ]
Posted by Wetchik (Member # 3609) on :
It wasn't that way when I played before... Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:little nothings
quote:satisfied merely to listen to your voice
quote:nothing is said with voice, only with looks
These make me think female too. I would guess between 15 and 35. I know that doesn't help much but I think that's about the most I can narrow it down. I would guess closer to the one side (15) than the other (35) but that's my spread.
Ryuko?
Hobbes Posted by Mormo (Member # 5799) on :
quote: we both find ourselves content to fall asleep beside each other in the dying flames and glowing embers of the fire."
I can't tell if this is intentional imagery conveying passion or not, but it almost reads like they crawled into the fireplace.
I remain unconvinced that either the author or narrator is female, though I think it more likely than not the author is female.
quote: You are curled up next to me on the couch with your head on my shoulder, and I have my arm around you, holding you close.
This passage and others indicate a male narrator to me. *shrugs*
Though I can't find any style pointers to her, for a guess I will pick Annie, because she wrote something about curling up on a couch that I read a few days ago.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No to all.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Actually, it sounds remarkably like the first draft of something my wife would write; there's a certain flow to the sentences that reminds me of her....Is that the case?
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
i have to agree with the assesment that the narrator is male. as to the author, i honestly can't tell.
while i think i understand what the author is trying to convey, the whole passage seems, i don't know, run-together? like there should be a slowness to the moment but the text is in a hurry.
i'll guess fugu.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
My guess is that the author is definitely female. It has the feel of a "good girl's" romance novel, but it does get a bit breathless at times.
I'm going to guess Belle .
For romance novel fare, I'd imagine it's pretty good. Sadly, not too experienced with reading that genre.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I agree that the narrator is supposed to be male, and I think that the author wants us to *think* that they're female, but I think that they're actually a male trying to psych us out. I'm guessing GreNME.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Wow, with all the mind games around here, it's almost like playing mafia!
I notice that the word "flames" gets used a lot. The fire could also have a "glow" or "flicker."
I guess kat.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No to all.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
fine, then how about advice for robots?
do i have to add new stuff to each guess?
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Man, that was pretty. It was poetic, and balanced, and passionate. I keep thinking of Ophelia.
So, there you go.
[ October 21, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: eslaine ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No and no.
If you think your new guess falls under the same rationale you gave last time, say so. I'm just trying to discourage purely random guessing.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
I've seen this style before, I think. But I'm limited to a group, and this is a talented and experienced writer. Next in line: Leonide.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
you're limited? sheesh, i think i'd only recognize like 3 people on that whole list by style. this ain't on of them.
calvinmaker?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I wonder how many male narrators would be content with just falling asleep after such a romantic gazing session and kiss. Certainly not me. I would have imagined taking things in a slightly different direction.
I think it sounds like someone's fantasy of the perfect man, which to me means the author is still searching for him (Good Luck).
Since I don't really know who's a young, hopeless romantic, I'll go out on a limb and say Teshi.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I like the imagery in this bit:
"You return the expression and friendship, and we both find ourselves content to fall asleep beside each other in the dying flames and glowing embers of the fire"
Makes me think that the couple have known each other for ages, care about each other deeply, but that their relationship has shifted from one of lovers to something more akin to a deep friendship. The flames are dying; there is still heat, but it's coming from embers rather than a fire that still has fuel. The fact that the line is "You return the expression and friendship" (emphasis mine) rather that just "you return the expression" or something makes me think this even more strongly.
Very subtle, assuming that my analysis is correct. I could see kat writing this piece.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Actually, I could very easily see this being a male writer. In fact, it kind of sounds like something I might have written when I was about 15 or 16.
What might I guess about someone who'd write a piece like this?
Single, but looking for love. Romantic Inexperienced with relationships. Young, possibly late teens.
I suppose I could be way off base, or maybe the writer is just very good at characterization.
I guess T_Smith.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No to all.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Looking over some past entries, I think that this is somwhat stylistically similar to Avadaru's writing in Round 19.
So I guess her.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
hmm...i like the sound of afr's reasoning. i'll go with pixie.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I still think female. Not so sure about the late teens. Possibly, or maybe this is a nostalgic look back at younger days.
celia?
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
If celia wrote this I think my universe just might come to an end.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
The two people this sounds least like, to me, are Bob Scopatz and Slash. Both of them strike me as people who can be tricky when it suits them. If this is an author who is trying to throw us off the track, and it isn't Leto, I'd guess it would be one of those two.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
While it was very tempting to say that it was Celia, just to get to watch the end of a universe, all the guesses so far have been wrong.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Noemon is very suspicious of this game. I think he's been fooled before. ((((Noemon)))) It's okay, Noemon. You can trust again.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Phew!
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
saxy, i love you.
i'll guess human. we're bound to run out of young people eventually.
and i see rivka doesn't include me amongst the young. Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
So was that a no to both Bob and Slash?
I'm tempted to say Hobbes for the same reasons I guessed T, but I just can't see Hobbes writing something that sounds like this. The patterns are all wrong.
I'll guess muppet.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Just curoiusly Saxy, what exactly are my patterns?
[EDIT: And dkw, how many more entries do you have?]
Hobbes
[ October 21, 2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Well, for one thing, there are no emoticons at all.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
::Eyes kat suspiciously::
Just what do you mean by that, hmmmm?
All paranoid ramblings aside, I'm not really so sure that the author is that young. If they were, I think they'd have been less likely to have woven in the whole "long term relationship turned platonic" bit. Of course, I could be imaging that part; it's by no means certain.
How about sndrake? He seems an unlikely author of this on the face of it, but I could see him employing an idea like that, and weaving it in fairly unobtrusively.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
saxon
You're right--definitely not Hobbes.
And since the female character keeps her shirt on the whole time, and doesn't make out with women at all, we can rule out Kama as well.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Joking aside, what *about* Kama? Is this piece hers?
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:And since the female character keeps her shirt on the whole time, and doesn't make out with women at all, we can rule out Kama as well.
Actually, I think it's interesting to note that we are never given an explicit description of either character's sex. We merely infer it from the apparent role of each character in the relationship. It's not my preferred reading, but I would be surprised very little to find out that the two participants are not what they initially appear to be (i.e. male-male, female-female, male-female but reversed).
By the way, aren't we supposed to make one guess at a time?
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Well, I haven't seen any of dkw's creative prose before, so I'll try to guess her before I go on to the guys.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, I could see these people being a same sex couple or something. Either way though, neither one is explicitly mentioned as having their shirt off...hmmm...come to think of it, doesn't it say that the only thing keeping them warm is the fire, the blanket, and their body heat? That would certainly imply that they're naked under that blanket, wouldn't it? Another point in favor of a Kama authorship!
As for the "one guess at at time" thing--sure, you're right, but you know, heat of the moment and all that.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah Erik, she occurred to me as a possibility too (note--no, I'm not trying to steal Erik's vote. I'm just agreeing with him!)
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Yeah, well...
Okay then.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
::having lulled him into a false sense of security, steals Erik's vote and runs off with it, laughing madly all the while::
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
I KNEW IT!!!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Too late Elaine! I've got your vote!
Bwa-hahahahaha!
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
I'm telling Mom. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You know, it would be kind of fun to do this game with obscure works from well known authors. We'd have to make sure that it wasn't possible to easily google for the correct answers, though.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
You could run the text as a google search, then if a snippet of it is on line, then you would know it. That still leaves a lot of work, and people could still recognize the style of their favorite author.
But this one is great too. The chance for others to see your work anonymously is as fun as the game. Kudos to dkw.
(where is that copyright character) Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hm. I'm going to guess saxon, based on his very extended "same-sex" rationale/explanation.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh yeah, I'm loving this game; it's one of the highlights of hatrack for me at the moment.
When I said the bit about making sure that the answer wasn't easily googlable, I meant that before submitting a snippet, the moderator would have to google it to make sure that it didn't come up with the author. It'd be a big pain, and I wouldn't want to do it, so don't think that I was volunteering! I just thought it would be fun to be a participant in the game.
How easy do you think it would be? If you were to happen across, say, some of the erotica that Hemmingway wrote under a pen name to pay his bills early on, would it be recognizable as his work (He thrust. Harder. In the rain.), or would he have also obscured his style? Relatively unknown texts from early in a writer's career might also have a very different flavor from their later, better known work.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No to everyone so far.
The kudos go to Slash for inventing the game on GreNME. I just offered to mod when someone suggested we try it here.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Poop.
Well I'll go ahead and guess Hobbes for reasons stated above even though I don't really think it's him.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
And you would be right
.
.
.
.
.
.
. . . that it's not him.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Hm. Kwsni? I could see her writing something as subtle as that last part (see my previous post if you don't know what I'm talking about).
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Another female whose creative writing I have yet to see: Mama Squirrel.<--guess copyrighted by eslaine 2003, all rights reserved.
I copyrighted that Noemon! Mom says you'd better come in, she wants to talk to you!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No and no.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Curses! Foiled again!
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Actually, I don't get the sense of a young person at all. It is definitely a sappy piece, but not really one of young love. I see it as a couple who has been married for a few years enjoying some rare time alone. I guess I feel that way because it doesn't seem sexual to me. The "staring" definitely would make me uncomfortable, though!
I'm going to guess Papa Moose.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
OK now let's think about the piece itself. The style is somewhat lyrical, and favors longer sentences. In fact, several of the sentences are almost run-ons, but given the tone and style, it seems to work. The imagery works well, reading this makes me feel warm. I suppose it might seem a little cliche from a certain viewpoint, but I see it as romantic. We certainly don't get much of a sense of the other character, which makes me think that the narrator may be a little self-absorbed. That sounds a little harsh. The narrator isn't self-centered; he's clearly in love, but the lack of characterization of his partner in what is clearly his fantasy could show a guy who romanticizes the object of his affection to the point of overlooking who she really is.
I'm using the words "he" and "she," here, but we're never explicitly given the sex of either character. We infer gender from the narrator's point of view and the implicit dominant/submissive nature of each participant. The narrator initiates the kiss, the other accepts it. The narrator holds the other, with the other's head on "his" shoulder. I'm not sure whether the genders are purposefully ambiguous, but if so, I have to say this is very well done.
Caleb?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oooh, good guess! Completely stealing your analysis, I'd put KarlEd forward as a possibility. Honestly, though, I think you nailed it.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I haven't jumped back into this fray since I sent a sample like a dozen times to Slash, who never used it, but I guess I'll make a go of it again.
I don't agree with those who assume that the author is female. Or naïve about love. Or necessarily very young.
The narrator is definitely assuming a dominant position, but, as has been noticed, the gender is left vague. That seems unlikely to be an accident, but I'm not positive where to take that. Suggesting that it's Caleb because of this seems facile.
I love most of the phrasing of this, including the breathless pace, which I take to be intentional. It sounds very poetic to me, and I imagine that the writer of this also writes poetry. And yet, while it is poetic, it also had a mundane feeling to it, like finding poetry in the mundane. I don't mean this in a bad way. Much of my favorite poetry is poetry that I can understand, and that focuses on experiences I can relate to.
Kind of like the poetry TomDavidson writes.
quote:and watch with eyes only for you
This line strikes me as trite, perhaps intentionally so.
Many things I see may be intentional, and I wish I had a little more context to go by in deciding just what they are indicative of.
quote:For what seems like forever, nothing is said with voice, only with looks.
I hate the turn of phrase in the first part of this, because it is unusual to say that something is said "with voice." Then again, this is part of what is poetic about this. I just think that in this sentence the author tried too hard. I would drop the forced parallelism here, or perhaps just replace "voice" with "words."
quote:Eventually, I give up resisting myself and lean over to kiss you.
Again, I wish I had more context here. I wonder why the narrator is resisting hemself. Is this some sort of forbidden passion, or is this simply the cliché that passion is always a giving-in to a temptation that must be fought.
quote:You return the expression and friendship,
I don't see a kiss as being well-described as an expression, so this line jars me.
quote:and we both find ourselves content to fall asleep beside each other in the dying flames and glowing embers of the fire.
A couple of people have already commented on this, but let me add my voice saying that this line made me laugh when I read it (and therefore broke the mood).
I think Tom's suggestion that it sounded like Christy may have been a clever bit of chicanery.
[ October 22, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Megachirops ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Ic, was that a guess? Everyone else, you're wrong.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Was I too subtle? Sorry.
Yes. That's my guess.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Okay, then you're wrong too.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Niiiiice!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I'm out of ideas, whose still left?
Hobbes Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
My still left.
I'm disgustingly sober.
:-\
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*sigh* celia, I did my best to phrase my guess in a way that was not offensive. Tell me, are you in your late teens?
Guessed so far: jeniwren Dragon rivka IndexCard porce Ryuko Annie Christy fugu Belle kat advice for robots Ophelia Leonide CalvinMaker Teshi T_Smith Avadaru pixie celia Bob Scopatz Slash Human sarcasticmuppet sndrake Kama dkw saxon75 Hobbes kwsni Mama Squirrel Papa Moose Caleb KarlEd TomDavidson
Still thinking it's a female, I guess: Vána
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
yeah, i'm in my very late teens. fourteenteen.
can i guess Geoff? i don't so much have a reason as i like typing that spelling.
oh, and trusting your guess list, because i'm just lazy enough to not check it's accuracy, we have the following possible authors left:
Pat ae amira tharani Amka Irami pooka JaneX Jon Boy Shlomo Kayla solo Dan_raven Dante Leto II Strider :Locke Tammy ^eleKtron ludosti enjeeo Maethoriell The Tick Ethics Gradient mackillian Tresopax Feyd Baron Troubadour Flyby Morbo Filleted Nick twinky Unmaker zgator
[ October 22, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: celia60 ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You know, it occurs to me that Erik has been pretty active in this thread. I've seen one sample of his writing, and it wasn't much like this, but that could be because he was emulating Michael Moorcock in the other piece. I'm going to guess that it's him (elsaine, I mean).
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
uh, he ain't on the list...
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's all part of his plan.
Seriously, though, there have been people who weren't on the list before. It's been an accident, but it's happened.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
I'm starting to run out of real guesses.
Icarus, because of his lengthy commentary and use of the word "chicanery."
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No, no, no.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Littlemissattitude?
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Only one person who has posted to this Round has not been guessed. Thus:
Noemon.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Okay, on to signifigant male writers (maybe Saxon75 was right!), because the writer is really good. Edit: Already guessed!, dang!
How about ScottR?
[ October 22, 2003, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: eslaine ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No, no, no.
edit to eslaine: Still no.
[ October 22, 2003, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
feyd.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
On my same theme, how about the Tick? He's happily married and perhaps sappy enough. *grin*
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Ding ding ding!
It was Feyd. Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
accursed baron! i win this round, but we shall meet again.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Oh yeah, all this has been worth the anxiety of actually sending it in. First, I suppose I should clarify a few things...
As anyone around Hatrack Chat will tell you, I'm a pretty good example of a non-writer. I'm great with logistics, planning, and world-building, but I seriously... well, suck... with characters. I wrote that little bit as a dare at the beginning of the summer (a friend challenged me to write something entirely out of character after I mentioned my writing (BSing) abilities might be declining.)
Let the last line go to show you that you should ALWAYS proofread your work. A habit I tend to ignore.
To address a few of the comments, just so y'all have some context for next time. I left the identities entire vague for various reasons. I did not intend to leave the gender unknown, but I can see that should have been anticipated when I was blurring the characters. Saxon did a pretty good job of identifying the fine points, but I didn't think anyone would guess me (in a non-random fashion) unless they were Hatrack Chat people.
Someone commented on the near run-on sentences, and I'd have to say that's about the only part of my normal writing style (think Douglas Adams) that I could not overcome. Thanks for the critiques and comments. I had actually thought about E-mailing dkw in the past months and telling her not to post is, but I didn't.
And you won celia? It took you seven guesses, and of all the participants in this thread, you know me better than most. That's like me saying I won mafia because you died before me. And we shall indeed meet again...
Feyd Baron, DoC
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Bravo Feyd!
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
yeah, way to be not your usual self. you writing romance is almost as incomprehensible as me writing a children's story. which is to say, knowing you so well actually made it harder.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Good point, but you didn't go far enough...
Me writing ANYTHING is nearly as incomprehensible as you having ANYTHING to do with children.
Feyd Baron, DoC
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
thanks, dear, i needed that.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
to Wetchik for a guess with no critique or reason given.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I like this. It sets a lovely mood.![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
saxon![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)