Here's the deal: I want a Honda Civic Coupe. The question is, should I get a manual, or an automatic? Manual gets more mpg, cheaper to buy, and cheaper to insure. However, I don't know how to drive a manual yet, and it takes more concentration to drive.
So which would be better? What do you drive? Do you like it?
Posted by Happy Camper (Member # 5076) on :
Manual, all the way. My current car is automatic, but I only have that because I basically inherited the car. Manual gives more of a feeling of control. And it's worth learning too. Think about if, for instance you ride with someone and they become unable to drive home (for whatever reason). If their car is manual and you only know how to drive an automatic, you're SOL. I love manual, s'all I'm saying.
Posted by Starla* (Member # 5835) on :
Go with the manual----it's really not that hard to learn.
I still drive my first car (1981 VW Rabbit Conv), and I bought it because it is an automatic, and I was a stupid 17-year old kid.
Five years later, (quite literally, the car and me celebrate our anniversary Nov 7), I'm wishing she was a manual, because of the reasons mentioned and I know how to drive manual and I like it better.
Plus---auto on this car is only 3-speed, and if it were manual it would be 5-speed. It would be sooooo sweet.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Those are very good reasons for buying a manual. The only thing I caution you is that I did the same thing and then chickened out. I rarely ever drive my car now and let Tom do most of the driving because driving stick intimidates me. I can do it, but get really frustrated in traffic. One or two very embarrassing stalls really ruined it for me. You have to basically drive it for a month straight and then you feel comfortable. If this is okay with you, then by all means, buy it!!
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Manual.
::misses manual::
It's not that hard to learn. It's more fun to drive. Once you learn how and pass the point of it being a distraction from driving, it will actually make you a more atttentive driver, since you will be a more active driver. Also, no torque converter can shift gears as efficiently as a human being who knows what s/he is doing.
Of course, you'll curse us during the time you're learning to drive it.
But you'll thank us in the long run.
::misses manual::
::wist::
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
I agree with both HC, Starla and Mega - go manual - especially with the little honda civics. My first car was a manual civic, and it was a lot of fun to drive. So much so that I've only ever bought manuals since. (I recently sold my fourth!)
Don't worry about the difficulty - after a little while it becomes completely second nature, like riding a bike. (Except with more wheels...and air-con...stereo...actually, ignore the bike simile
The only consideration in favour of auto is if you are doing a lot of city driving with plenty of starts and stops - manual can get a little tiresome then, but I've always thought it worth the inconvenience for the driving pleasure...
(Edited to add thoughts on city driving)
[ November 04, 2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Scythrop ]
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
I'm sort of learing how to drive a manual. I have trouble with it though because I'm so short I can't get the clutch all the way in. I have to sit with a cushion behind me. Yeah, it's kinda pathetic.
I'm just afraid it's going to take too much concentration to drive a manual. But it doesn't sound so bad. And I guess I'd get used to it after a while.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
And it is like riding a bike . . . two summers ago I rented a manual jeep in Mexico, after having owned exlusively automatic transmission cars since 1993, and I could still do it!
::misses manual::
Get it now, while you're young.
They don't make minivans or stationwagons in manual.
Now is the time to have fun in your car.
::misses manual::
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
I actually probably won't buy one for another year. *is broke* It'll have to be used, too, or I won't be able to afford it. Umm, actually I STILL won't be able to afford it. Oh well. *shrugs* I can't wait to get it.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
The scariest is when you are stopped at an incline . . . the fear of rolling back into the person behind you before starting. (You are also afraid of stalling and thus hitting the car behind you, but this actually can't happen. If you stall, the car is in gear, and so you can't roll backward. The only danger is rolling backward due to letting the clutch out too slowly.) But eventually, you learn just where the "sweet spot" on your clutch is, and you learn to let it out without rolling back at all.
(You should make a point of striving for this even when there is nobody behind you, while you are still getting accustomed.)
Incidentally, I learned to drive on a manual transmission, so don't feel like you need to have an automatic while you are still a new driver and then switch once you are more experienced. Rather, what is likely to happen is that you won't want to switch away from comfortable mediocr--from automatic.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
I stalled one time when I was at a light. It turned red before I could get going again. It was so embarrassing. *blushes* The people wating behind me weren't too happy either.
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
If you're not buying one for a year or so ::Empathises on the whole broke situation:: then if you can, try to have a few 'test runs' on someone elses stick shift - if that's possible - then when you do go to test drive for your own car, you'll be reasonably confident with the stick shift, and will get a much better sense of the car you are buying. It'll also give you a good idea in advance of whether or not you really want a manual...
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
You have to cultivate a lack of concern for their feelings while you are learning.
(Or practice at 2 am!)
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
When I was learning stick, I practiced in shopping centre car parks after hours. *lots* of space and very little embarrassment.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
The sad thing is I won't be able to test drive my car. I'm not old enough.
(edit: i have my licence, but dealers won't let you test drive unledd you're a certain age)
[ November 04, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Eruve Nandiriel ]
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
That's a bummer. I'd keep the carpark thing in mind though - private property = no licence necessary. My dad had taught me to drive in the playground of a local primary school (On the weekends by the time I was 14. It certainly gave me a lot more confidence by the time I went for 'proper' driving lessons. (a good thing, too, because I had the instructor from hell)
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
Ahhh - actually, I think its the same thing here in Australia. That's where you need an older friend / parent to deal with the salesmen...
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
The day I got my permit was the first time I ever drove. The whole way back from the DMV I was in the ditch. I got better though, and I took driver's ed. Actually, my instructer and I got lost for the first hour. It was sad.
Posted by Sugar+Spice (Member # 5874) on :
I'm putting a vote in for automatic. I love the idea that the car does all the work for you. My car's manual and the clutch drives me mad. It's just such hard work. I hate gear shifting, hill starts, stalling... The list just goes on and on. Most of all I hate people in automatic cars looking all superior at me when my car stalls.
My next car is an automatic, definitely.
I guess I'm just really lazy. Maybe if my car was nice and new I'd learn to love manual. Maybe.
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
My first drive after I got my licence, I managed to back my parents car off the side of the driveway, which was down a *really* steep hill, and get it completely stuck on the curb. It took dad an hour to disloge it ::cringes at memory::
Things got better after that.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Icarus, you can special order stick on minivans. A woman I work with did that. I couldn't believe that she liked manuals that much, but they're really sold on them.
Used manuals are actually really affordable. Usually about $5000 less than automatic.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Was it manual on the column?
o_O
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Definitely manual!
Add to the list of positives:
1) Cheaper to maintain (much less to go wrong)
2) You can push-start it, if you have to.
3) Fewer people will ask to borrow your car.
4) Nothing better than going through a bunch of tight curves on a mountain pass running a 5-speed manual!
Oh, and regarding the "stalling up-hill" concern--there's always the emergency brake trick (keep your thumb on the release button, and use it like a regular beake to hold your spot while you engage first gear).
I'd still be driving my manual 1991 Toyota Corolla (got 40 mpg running through those aforementioned mountains) if I hadn't wrecked it!
---Steve
Posted by Wetchik (Member # 3609) on :
I never thought of using my handbrake for that. Good tip Steve, thanks! Posted by Wetchik (Member # 3609) on :
Have you guys heard of the transmission that's runs like an auto, but it has no multiple gears? It has a gear that decreases in size the faster you go for more top end.
The Toyota Prius has it I believe. Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
<Relieved this isn't an Onanism thread.>
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
mega, the subaru outback is a wagon, and it most definitely comes in manual.
i am with everyone who says get a manual. my mother made me learn on one, and after beginner's luck, i had a stop sign from hell experience, but once you've got it down, it's cake.
Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :
Manual, for sure! Especially little underpowered cars need manual transmissions. It's simpler so less to go wrong. It's more fun to drive. It puts more of the power of the engine at your disposal. I like being able to roll the car off if the battery dies. I like that putting it in gear holds it back on a hill. You use your brakes a lot less. And you need to learn the joys of double clutching.
I love manual transmissions. I really miss my Land Cruiser with 5 speed stick shift and 4 wheel drive. Even though the clutch was so hard to press my left quadricep was noticably bigger than my right. <laughs>
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I don't know about the Toyota Prius, but I know that the Saturn VUE has a continuously variable transmission, and GM plans to use it in other cars in the future.
Linkage. Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Definitely manual.
My first car was a 73 super-beetle, and although it was a little rough in the going at first, it was definitely worth learning how to drive a manual.
Now, my fiancee has a 72 beetle, and he had to learn how to drive it from me.
The insurance would be enough incentive for me. My car's insurance would raise by I think 30 bucks a month if it wasn't a manual.
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
my second car was a 72 super beetle. yellow. that's a good time.
i definitely agree with little cars and the extra power of manual. i've had two 3-cylinder metros. i passed a mustang going up a hill once. it's all how you drive it.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
True story: I was visiting my sister in Provo one weekend and got violently ill. She had to drive me back to Salt Lake in my Manual and she didn't know how. So that is kind of the flip side of an earlier scenario.
I finally learned Manual shifting in a VW bus.
We bought the manual because it was cheap, even though my husband didn't know how to drive one yet (he was 21 at the time). And the first thing we did with it was hitch it to a trailer and drive from CA to TX. Nothing like the Guh guh Guh guh of clutching too fast with a U Haul on the back.
Girl Talk warning:
When I have cramps or am pregnant, manual is less comfortable.
End Girl Talk.
But overall I'm a fan of manual.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I agree with all the practical reasons to drive a manual, but as far as the "fun" aspect goes, I don't see that making much difference. My favorite cars to drive have been a Chevy Lumina Eurosport (with an automatic...and the engine of a cop car),a Chevy Silverado (automatic-400 small block and turbo transmission), a Chevelle (350, automatic), and a Stratus (automatic). My least favorite cars to drive have been my Ford Ranger (4-cylinder, 5-speed) and Nissan Sentra (4-cylinder, 5-speed).
I think fun comes from more power.
With a Civic, I don't think you'll see the power either way. Also, my Civic got to 200,000 miles and never needed to be push started.
Learn how to drive one--definitely by the time you hit your mid-life crisis, like Iccy;)--but you don't need to listen to these stick shift snobs unless you're buying a Porsche. Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
My first manual (besides the horrible 1973 Plymouth Duster I learned on) was a Plymouth Colt.
It had a 10-speed manual, coupled to a 1.4 litre engine.
It was like a 10-speed bike: there was a high/low range (think--front derailleur), and then 4 forward and one reverse speeds (think--rear derailleur). I taught a friend how to drive a stick keeping it in low gear--almost impossible to stall it out!
When I was bored, I'd range through all 8 forward gears. When the accelerator cable snapped, I tweaked the idle screw all the way up, and was able to get it moving in low, and drive it home.
And I could push start it by myself, on a flat road: just get it rolling, then hop in, shift to Low/1, and pop the clutch!
Ah, memories! We will enjoy them.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
mmmm...porshe.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Most of Frisco's favorite cars were GM products, so you can clearly not listen to anything he has to say.
Good point about push starting, aka! Yet another good reason to go with manual!
I don't like the sound of that parking brake trick. Sounds bad for the brakes, and it also seems like a bad habit. You don't want to learn to compensate for your weaknesses; you want to eradicate them. Practice somewhere deserted until you know how to come out without rolling back.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I want a Porsche!
::yearn::
A note in support of automatic: apparently some very carsick people are more prone to carsickness in manual cars. At least, Cor says this is true, though she didn't have any problems with me driving in Mexico, so I think it's more about how talented the person driving is . . .
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I had been thinking about doing a manual vs. automatic thread a while ago...
I'm a fan of manuals. I learned to drive on an automatic, but the 3 vehicles I've owned have all been manual. I like manuals because of the control, longevity of manual transmissions (automatics break much sooner), lower vehicle price, better gas mileage, and ability to push start (which I had to use last week when my starter went out). It's not difficult to learn to feel the clutch's sweet spot, so you don't roll when you don't want to. Just please pay attention to the world around you when you're sitting not in gear (I once had a truck roll backwards into me at a stoplight because he wasn't paying attention to the incline or my frantic efforts to alert him to it either). Automatics are also nice - you don't have to think about your shifting and it leaves you with an extra hand. Talking on a cell phone while driving a manual is not very fun (before everyone reams me out - I sometimes have to take calls for work while I'm driving, I think I have only initiated 1 or 2 calls while I've been driving).
I think everyone should know how to drive one (even if they don't own one - you never know when you might need to drive one), but whether you buy one or not is your own personal preference. The next car I buy will probably be an automatic, but who know when I'll ever buy another car....
Hey ssywak - my first car was a Plymouth Champ (the Colt's twin)! It was a little weird getting used to the gearing on it. I basically used the standard (low) gears for accelerating (better acceleration that way) and the economy (high) 4th gear as a substitute for 5th.
[ November 05, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
what exactly is "push starting"? *knows nothing about cars*
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
If your battery or starter dies (which you normally need to start the car), you can push the car (clutch in) till it's moving (like 5-10 mph) and then pop the clutch out (with the transmission in first or second gear). The momentum of the vehicle will force the engine to turn over (starting it). You can't do this in an automatic.
[ November 05, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
oh, cool! thanks! Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Oh, and the Civic coupe's are fun manuals to drive - slacker has one. It's actually for sale if you're interested.... Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
how many miles on it? how old is it? what kind of condition is it in?
[ November 05, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Eruve Nandiriel ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
2000, EX (CD player, moonroof, etc.), dark green, rear spoiler, approx. 38000 miles (I think), fabulous condition inside and out
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
oooh... how much is it going for?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*drool*
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I'm not sure what slacker wants for it.... I'll ask! How close are you to Phoenix?
[ November 05, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
ummm...pretty far. Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
quote:then pop the clutch out (with the transmission in first or second gear).
mmmm . . . second gear. It's darn near impossible to start it in first gear with most cars.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
*blush* We actually had to do this after I bought new floormats. We drove into the dealer to ask what was wrong and he just laughed.
(There is a handy safety feature that won't let you start your car if the clutch doesn't fully engage)
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I love my 5-speed manual truck. Also love it because my teenage kids REFUSE to drive it since they find it difficult to understand a stick ("too many things to remember!" they complain).
I learned on a 3-on-the-tree manual. Have always loved them.
Had one friend say it was because I must have a 'thing' about being able to play with that shaft (I mean shifter) as I drive.....
Posted by Happy Camper (Member # 5076) on :
I'm sure someone has already verified that stationwagons do indeed come in manual, but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread. My parents used to own a Pontiac J2000 manual transmission stationwagon. I believe it's more currently known as a firebird or something like that. Funny thing is, years later my brother and I saw an automatic version of the same car, and it just looked wrong.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I miss my stick shift. I learned to drive on a 1986 SAAB 900. My dad handed me the keys and told me it was a two hour drive to get back home so we had better get started. Nothing like learning under pressure, but hey, two and half hours later I was a pro.
I think every one should learn at some point. You have never driven until you have worked a clutch. And you never know when be able to drive stick will come in handy.
Posted by cyruseh (Member # 1120) on :
When I was 17, I got in to a bad accident, which was my fault. I lost my lisence for 3 months, which was a very sucky considering it was the summer after graduating from highschool. I could never go anywhere unless it was at the mercy of someone else.
Well, the day I got my lisence, I HAD to take my girlfreind out on a "real" date, something I had not been able to do in 3 months. The only thing was, the only car I could borrow from my parents was a stick shift. So once I got home, I started learning how to drive the stick shift as I started the date. That made for an exciting date, especially considering we went down to UC's campus, which is full of all kinds of narrow winding roads, up and down hills.
But it didnt take me that long to learn it. Now though, I had saved up to buy a nice car, and having an automatic was one of my criteria. I had just gotten tired of always shifting the car all the time, sure it was fun, but sometimes, I just want to sit back and cruise.
Posted by Tzadik (Member # 5825) on :
Eruve,
Stick, I love driving stick - it makes you drive the way you want, freedom. On the other hand - depends on where you live. If in a big city and be driving a lot in heavy city traffic - then for practical reasons the automatic would be better. But stick is stick Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Mega,
If you're engine's not leaking gas/air through the piston rings, then a first-gear push-start should work.
As a small point--you can have the car in neutral if you're stuck to having to push-start it all by yourself. Then you jump in, depress the clutch (say something like, "You're a very stupid clutch, and you'll never amount to anything"), shift to first, and pop.
I hate to say this, but I would sometimes practice push-starting my Corolla by letting it fall down my sloped driveway (towards the enemy's gate, as it were), and popping the clutch. I really miss that car...
--Steve
Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :
My brother drove his MG with no battery forever. He lived on a hill and worked on a hill. He was too broke then to buy a battery, poor guy!
I had a Volkswagon Fastback that would hardly stay in reverse. It always popped out. Reverse is always the first gear to go in Volkswagons for some reason. Anyway, I just parked on a slight incline at work and rolled backwards to back out. Other places I either had to find a place I could pull straight through, or else find an incline to park on. It wasn't that difficult in my town, luckily. Pretty hilly. <laughs> But I drove it that way for a couple of years.
Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :
Oh, that reminds me of the time my clutch cable broke and I drove my car home with no clutch. It's not that hard to do if you choose the time right for shifting. You can kind of feel it when it's right and slip it right in. On the way back down through the gears it's a whole lot harder to find that spot and get it to work without grinding them. <laughs> Not a problem unless you have to stop completely at a light. Then it dies and it's sort of hard on your starter when you take off again by cranking it in first gear.
My brother in law said he didn't realize you could even drive a car that way. He had apparently led a very sheltered life. We were so poor we always drove junker cars and worked on them ourselves in high school and college. I think his dad must have bought him a new car or something.
[ November 08, 2003, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I drive a manual solely because we don't do car payments, and we were limited in how much we could spend for a car outright, so there was no good reason to limit ourselves to looking for automatic cars just because I didn't know how to drive a stick. Took me about two weeks to stop thinking about what I was doing.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
aka - Those times (without the clutch cable) are when we can all be glad for syncromesh. Having driven a vehicle that had no syncromeshing on any of the gears (it was really old), I must say that syncromesh is one of the finer automotive inventions.
[ November 08, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I had an old used beamer, and a couple of times the supports for the gearshift broke, causing the stick to fall down into the undercarriage of the car somewhat. When this happened, it became extremely difficult to put the car in second or fourth gear. Once this happened when a friend and I were heading down to Key West to do some fishing and stuff. Right when we got to KW, I decided we should turn around while I was already in gear, rather than risk not being able to put the car in. Problem is, there are some stop lights and stuff on the way. Lots of people can come out in second gear, but I maintain it takes a real stud to come out in fourth! Of course, you have absolutely no pick up, which really ticks off cars behind you in the many places where US1 is only one lane in each direction. At one point I was right in front of a cop at a light, but I guess there must not have been anything illegal about what I was doing, because he didn't stop me. Once I hit Florida City, I jumped on the turnpike for the rest of the trip home (~30 minutes). Speed limits around 60 or 65, so I was home free . . . except for the toll! I knew if I came to a stop in the toll booth and attempted to come out in fourth gear, I would probably get killed. So for the last fifteen minutes before, I drove over 100 in an attempt to speed up my reflexes. Then, at the toll plaza, I sailed through at 35 and tossed my coins in!
Posted by Mazer (Member # 192) on :
I am suprised that no one has mentioned another benefit of stick, engine braking. The same thing that makes you manual stall if you're not careful, can be used to slow the car down. Depending on the engine, you can slow down a LOT faster. This is also good for driving on snow and ice, because it slow the car without directly affecting traction, (Although if you do it aggressively, and I mean REALLY aggressively, you can lock up the rear wheels.) Engine braking also extends the life of your brake pads and rotors. You can also use it if your brakes are overheating on a long downhill.
Plus with a stick, you can practice your "heel-and-toe downshifting."
Automatics waste far to much of your cars power in the torque converter, (part of how the AT works.) I HATE automatics, but I hate driving around automatics even more. This is a generalization, but as a general rule AT drivers tend to be the "dumb cows" on the road. Whether it's the afrorementioned lack of attention needed, or what, I don't know, but a lot of the inattentive bad driving I see is from the automatics, (And as a motorcyclist, I see a LOT of inattentive driving.)
There are a few tell-tale signs of AT drivers, such as riding the brake and inconsistant pace of driving. It is so aggravating to follow an automatic up a hill, because they can loll up the hill in a sloth-like daze, cause me to be unable to choose the right gear. I often see auto drivers applying the brakes on the freeway when no one is in front of them, and they weren't exceeding the speed limit.
I firmly belive that driving a MT contributes to being more in touch with the vehicle and therefore a safer driver. I could go on for days about how much I hate ATs, but I will leave it at that.
And one more thing, if you ever want to learn to ride a motorcycle, already knowing how to drive a MT makes it easier, as most bikes are MT.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
quote:I am suprised that no one has mentioned another benefit of stick, engine braking.
I thought this had been brought up.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Dammit, don't stereotype AT drivers. Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
*is still confused*
What on earth is engine braking? I've seen signs prohibiting it on highways and have always wondered.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Take a sledgehammer. Hit engine block until it cracks. Engine broken.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
prohibiting it? Why?
In the mountains, the signs mandate that you downshift to control your speed.
Do they just mean that you can't downshift in front of tailgaters? Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Usually, the signs prohibiting engine braking are on stretches of highway/freeway through the middle of cities. When truckers use engine brakes, it is very loud. So, the prohibition against engine braking is to keep the noise level down in the city.
Engine braking is essentially using your engine to slow the vehicle (through downshifting), rather than the brakes. I don't tend to use engine braking much. I'd rather save the wear and tear on the engine and transmission than save the wear and tear on the brakes. Brakes are much easier and cheaper to replace than engines and transmissions.
[ November 08, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Mazer (Member # 192) on :
quote:I'd rather save the wear and tear on the engine and transmission than save the wear and tear on the brakes.
Engine braking applies the same wear and tear as accelerating. So if you want to save that wear and tear on your engine and transmission, then you need to idle downhill all the time.
Unless, of course, you downshift like a moron. If your engine hits the rev limiter when you downshift, you are doing it wrong. Otherwise, you aren't hurting your car. It might SEEM like you are hurting your car, because deceleration from gear choice is what you are trying to avoid when you are learning to drive stick. But, it's just load on the engine like when you hit the gas.
I engine brake a lot, I put 90,000 miles on my engine and transmission, and it hasn't needed replacing yet. Clutches typical need to be replaced at 60,000 miles, so I am doing ok. It depends on how you drive, as well. I know a one-legged guy who drives a tractor trailer, and those have like 10 or 15 gears. Most motorcycle transmissions can be upshifted and downshifted without the clutch.
And if someone brought up engine braking, I missed it. Sorry.
As for stereotyping AT drivers, I admitted that I was doing so, but that doesn't change my experience.
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I'm not old enough.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Actually, my instructer and I got lost for the first hour. It was sad.
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