Hatrack River Forum: LOTR A Character Study: Orcs in General

This is topic LOTR A Character Study: Orcs in General in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :

Are orcs truly evil? Or are they just people enslaved and enamored in modern technology slaves to its will, unable to break out because of the fact that they are in fear, awe, and wonder of modern machinery? Just a question.

Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :

[Roll Eyes]

I...must...hijack thread...to talk about...hot LotR guys... [Big Grin]

Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :

From what I understand, Morgoth twisted and changed the elves in the dark ages of the world, so I'm guessing that when that happened, he made them actually evil, hating themselves and anything of beauty and peace. So, yeah, actually evil. He probably also engineered them to be easy to control, as well.

[ December 03, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Book ]

Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :

Lurtz from FOTR was a hunky guy. Tall, dark mysterious, sort of a bad boy image. With the right girl to change him I am sure he would be quite a catch. [Razz]

msquared

Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :

I believe Orcs are evil twisted versions of elves, like Trolls are evil twisted versions of ents.

(dang, book beat me to it...)

[ December 03, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Eruve Nandiriel ]

Posted by raphael (Member # 5870) on :

i read somewhere in TTT that trolls were maid sort of like ents (a weird copy of them ) and orcs are supposed to be like elves.
I realy liked the orsa in TTT. some of them were sooo cool.

Posted by raphael (Member # 5870) on :

sheesh , you guys type too fast

Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :

I was under the impression that something had been "done" to elves - genetic manipulation? to turn them into orcs. Arwen's mother had been captured and "tormented" by orcs, and I always interpreted that as rape.

Posted by raphael (Member # 5870) on :

are orcs born from the earth?

Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :

I don't think so. As far as I know, they are bred. (quite a scary thought, really [Angst]

)

Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :

I knew about Morgoth, AKA Melkor, but I was thinking aybe they are a a symbol of the masses?

Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :

Orcs, Trolls, Ents, Goblins, Uruk-Hai are all NOT created from the earth.

They are all products of a computer similated world known as "Middle Earth" designed to turn an ordinary stream of 1's and 0's into what you see on the screen.

Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :

[Laugh]

Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :

Some years back I bought a review book called Master of Middle-Earth about all of Tolkien's work. The author (whoever he was) argued from the nature of Tolkien's cosmology that Tolkien wasn't trying to portray orcs as inherently evil. ("Nothing is evil in the beginning...even Sauron was not so.") Unfortunately, I don't have the book around anymore and don't remember much of his arguments. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :

Yeah. The basic idea is that nothing is truly evil until pride and force of will makes it so. Then there's no turning back. I can't really see an orc saint, they're practically animals.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I was also under the impression that elves had been tortured and 'changed' into orcs a while ago (sorry about the vague time period).

I have a friend who thinks 'the little blue orc' is cute. I'm sure there's some good in the orcs somewhere...

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

At one point there was a movement to label Tolkien Racist. After all, there are the inherently EVIL races and the inherently GOOD ones, and the JUST GREEDY Dwarves.

While Race and lineange play an important role in the books, I believe that personal choice and moral choice define who is evil and who is good.

Why are there no "Good" Orcs? Because their social structure would have ensured they died very young.

Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :

So...why don't the elves or somebody kidnap young orcs and raise them?

Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :

Yeah, I say the touch of a rogue and thoroughly evil god defeats environment as far as being evil goes. Orcs in therapy doesn't mean progress as much as it does a bunch of digested psychiatrists.

[ December 03, 2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Book ]

Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :

That's a really funny image, now that I think about it. We need some Uruk-Haiku about it.

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

Book, there are some things even Orcs won't eat.

Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :

Well, all I have to say is that Frasier Crane is probably really tender. With the proper seasoning, of course.