I got PotC the other night and watched it and the extra stuff. I love the movie, but last night as I was drifting off to sleep something came to my mind that I think is a major plot hole.
How did Will Turners dad die?
Here is another small hole, but I think I see a way around it. Why didn't Elizabeth become one of the cursed? She had one of the pieces of gold.
msquared
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
1) I believe Will Turner's dad was killed in the attack that Will survived. But who knows?
2) In order to receive the curse, it appears that you need to remove the gold from the original chest; merely passing the gold to someone else doesn't curse the recipient.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
How does he get the gold before he dies? The ship that was destroyed at the start of the movie was the ship that Will was on. Will did not know his Dad was a pirate.
I just was under the impression that Will's Dad was there when the gold was taken and sent the medallion to his son and then some how died. That is the hole.
I can see the part about having to take the gold from the chest to be cursed. That explains Captain Jack during the fight at the end.
msquared
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Didn't the pirates say something about how they shouldn't have killed Bootstrap? Irony was discussed.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
How could they kill him? If he was under the curse like they were they could not kill him.
msquared
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Barbossa: I won’t take questioning and no second guesses, not from the likes of you, Master Twigg .
Koehler: Who’s to blame? Every decision you’ve made has led us from bad to worse.
Pirate: It was you who sent Bootstrap to the depths!
quote:Pintel: Ol’ Bootstrap Bill . We knew him. Never sat well with Bootstrap what we did to Jack Sparrow , the mutiny and all. He said it wasn’t right with the Code. That’s why he sent off a piece of the treasure to you as it were. He said we deserved to be cursed… and remain cursed.
Ragetti: Stupid blighter.
Gibbs : Good man.
Pintel: Well, as you can imagine that didn’t sit too well with the Captain.
Ragetti: That didn’t sit too well with the Captain, at all. Tell him what Barbossa did.
Pintel: I’m telling the story! So…what the Captain did, he strapped a cannon to Bootstraps’ bootstraps.
Ragetti: Bootstraps’ bootstraps.
Pintel: The last we saw of ol’ Bill Turner , he was sinking to the crushing black oblivion of Davy Jones’ Locker. ‘Course it was only after that we learned we needed his blood to lift the curse.
Ragetti: That’s what you call ironic.
So, this whole time, Will's father is strapped to a cannon at the bottom of the sea somewhere. He doesn't die until everyone is made alive again, whereupon he immediately drowns.
Looks to me like the pirates could have walked along the bottom of the ocean and found him again, but maybe they figured it wasn't worth the bother unless they had that last medallion, and if they found the last medallion, they'd have his blood anyway, so they didn't try.
Still, I'd hate to be Will and someday sit and figure all that out - that, in a way, Will lifting the curse is what truly killed his father.
[ December 08, 2003, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Why would then need his blood or that of a realtive? I mean why his inparticular? How would they know that they need it? Cortez wasn't there to tell them and probably no one else.
msquared
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Huh.
Maybe Bootstrap escaped from the cannon on the bottom of the ocean. He was there for years, wasn't he? Then he just wandered towards land. But he's so hard to find and doesn't have the gold for the pirates to be drawn to him, that they don't bother looking for him.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Elizabeth : Because I was afraid that you were a pirate. That would have been awful.
Will : It wasn’t your blood they needed. It was my father’s blood…my blood…the blood of a pirate.
They needed blood to repay the debt. Blood of their own - blood of a pirate.
So, technically, they could have used Jack's blood.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I smell a sequel. Posted by just_me (Member # 3302) on :
quote:They needed blood to repay the debt. Blood of their own - blood of a pirate.
So, technically, they could have used Jack's blood
I don't think they could use Jack's blood.
Will's not saying they need the blood of a pirate, he's saying they need his blood and then reminding us that he's upset that he's a pirate...
They need his blood because they need Turner blood.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It doesn't say they need Turner blood. The only conversation is about pirate blood.
Something doesn't fit here.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
The screenwriters mention this in the commentary. They made sure to include "crushing depths" to imply that, skeleton or not, he's powder, with nothing solid left to animate.
Of course, they also kept muttering "sequel" and giggling, so who knows?
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:Barbossa: And who among us has paid the blood sacrifice owed to the heathen gods?
Pirates: Us!
Barbossa: And whose blood must yet be paid?
Pirates: Hers!
This shows that all of the pirates must pay the blood sacrifice so it did have to be Tanners blood.
[ December 08, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: solo ]
Posted by Feyd Baron (Member # 1407) on :
The curse was only upon those who took the gold directly out of the stone chest (this is mentioned when they discuss the curse). It is possible Will's father didn't take a piece from the chest, and instead sent a piece they had taken back; it's also possible his crushed cursed zombie-like body is crushed at the bottom of the ocean. Whichever you like.
And Elizabeth isn't cursed because she didn't take the gold coin from the chest. The same goes for Will, because he was given the coin by his father.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
So they can't use Jack's blood because it isn't just the blood of a pirate, but the blood of all of those who took the gold. Apparently, the other pirates have already added their blood to that chest, and they were just waiting on the last one.
Okay, that covers it.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
And remember that when Jack palms his peice at the end, he slices his hand before throwing it to Will.
Ni!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
My friends and I have discussed this plot hole before. To me though, that one's not as big as the one I thought of after my third or fourth viewing.
The pirates come to get the gold and they take Elizabeth to their ship. They are not skeletons at this point, which is all fine and dandy since it was cloudy at the time. However, just after they take her from her house it shows the clouds move away from the moon and then cuts to the scene where the two pirates find Jack in the jail cell. The moon had to be shining for this part because it is when Jack found out that the curse was real. However, apparently the moon is pretty magical and can only shine into the one jail cell, or the people of the town (including Elizabeth being hauled away) are pretty unobservant because the rest of the pirates would have turned to skeletons at that same moment. It is not until later on the Black Pearl that Elizabeth finds out about the curse, and then not until the climax that the rest of the people find out.
Edit: After the scene with Jack finding out about the curse it shows the clouds moving back to cover the moon, but it still leaves a whole chunk of time unaccounted for.
Oh well, it's still a great movie.
[ December 08, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: hansenj ]
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I'd assume the pirates were mostly indoors at that time...
But anyway, I noticed the plot hole when I first saw it in the theater, and told my family about it. They all got mad at me because I was ruining the movie, eheheh. I assumed he turned back into a human underwater and died, but I immediately thought "sequel!!!" when I realized this too...
You'd think that if he'd been down there for so many years, he'd eventually figure a way to get out... But of course there is the matter of water pressure... But I'd think that a little water pressure wouldn't faze an undead skeleton man... Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
This was the first thing i said to Leonide when we got out of the theater!
They just left his poor father at the bottom of the Ocean for years and years, and finally the curse is lifted and he becomes human again, only to immediately drown and die. Seemed like an awfully big oversight.
so either they were thinking sequel. or they figured people wouldn't care, or notice.
[ December 08, 2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
The script was an interesting read. Can't wait to see the movie.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
The movie will be better than the script, due to the acting of Johnny Depp. Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote: I'd assume the pirates were mostly indoors at that time...
But what about everyone fighting in the streets? And what about the fact that they had just dragged Elizabeth out of her house? Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
My question: Why didn't he just take off his boots?
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
presumably the chains that held him to the metal ball were tight enough around the boots that his feetsies couldn't slip out?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
When the moon shines through clouds, it doeszn't necessarily shine EVERWHERE at once, Right? So it would only show them as skeletons when they were in direct moonlight. Sort of like the vampires in Buffy standing under an awning or something. *snicker*
He'd have had to have gotten loose before he got pulverized by the pressure, or else they could have dropped him in a place that wasn't as deep as they thought. Whatever. I think it holds up fairly well.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I'm telling you, a Professional Plothole Annalist could make a killing in todays movies.
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
I just had to post to say that I finally saw the movie on Saturday and I've been watching special features little by little since then. I noticed that plothole, but what you've said seems to cover it all. Someone should probably forward this to the movie people so they have an answer when people ask about this. You know, just in case they ignored this little oops in the hopes that no one would notice. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
So was Bootstrap Bill actually under the curse, or not? I assumed he wasn't, because as we know even after being seperated, the bones still move. If after being crushed, possibly these pieces of bone could reunite, creating the skelaton/man once again, and get to the surface again.
I only would like to ask the screenwriters not to do the same plot as every other father-was-somehow-special-but-now-he's-dead movie. I hate that, it's so overdone. Unless they do something really interesting.
Posted by butterfly (Member # 5898) on :
I'm rewatching Pirates of the Caribbean and I noticed a mistake (maybe) in the movie. When Elizabeth and Jack are trapped on the island, Elizabeth starts to burn all the food (and the rum ) to signal the English navy, she says that the signal is over a thousand feet high.
Since in the beginning of the movie, Elizabeth said she was from London, shouldn't she had said how high the trees were according to the metric system??? Isn't it only the US that doesn't use the metric system, even now? They weren't in the US in the movie, right?
[ December 08, 2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: butterfly ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Butterfly, although the British use metres etc now, back then feet and yards etc. would have been the standard measure. And think about it, not many people anywhere know their height in centimetres, metric or not.
[ December 08, 2003, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Wussy Actor (Member # 5937) on :
We readily accept cursed, undead skeleton men, but we’re worried about a character using the metric system. Hmmmmm.
Posted by butterfly (Member # 5898) on :
Teshi, thanks. How was I supposed to know that?
Wussy: You're just jealous I noticed. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Sort of like the vampires in Buffy standing under an awning or something. *snicker*
Hey, let's not say something we can't take back.
Insulting a Disney movie is one thing...Insulting Buffy is another thing entirely.
Dagonee
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Insulting a Disney movie is one thing...Insulting Buffy is another thing entirely.
Indeed.... but which is the highly offensive one? That's up for debate! Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Maybe Bootstrap Bill stole a peice from one of the other pirates, so he wasn't under the curse, and therefore could be killed.
Ni!
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Teshi- Bootstrap would have had to been under the curse. If he wasn't under the curse, then they would only need the coin and no blood. But because he was under the curse as well, they needed Bootstrap's blood.
Which is the same reason that Jack adds his blood to the chest as well when he cuts his hand and presses it to the coin before throwing it to Will.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Sorry about the double post, but it just occured to me that there could still be a sequel without making Bootstrap alive.
The coins are still on the Isle de Muerte. I would imagine there are still people out there who want treasure and don't believe in the curse. But that's just a thought.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Dagonee, I loved Buffy. It made it's rules and it stuck with'em, even when those rules were a little different than the usual vampire thing. Which is good. I love Joss Whedon. *saves nickles for Firefly dvds*
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
quote:*saves nickles for Firefly dvds*
*sing-songs* Tomorrow!
(Of course, I can't get them then. But just knowing they're out there makes my finals week a little more tolerable. )
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Is is called the "English" system of measurement, isn't it?
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote:presumably the chains that held him to the metal ball were tight enough around the boots that his feetsies couldn't slip out?
I think old bootstrap could have detached his leg, free himself of the chains, reatatch his leg, and then walk to the nearest port. (Remember that skeleton arm scene with the governonr.)
It would be interesting if they got Aragorn to play Orlando Bloom's father in the sequel. Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
I remember noticing a few plot holes the only time I saw the movie in the theatre, but I haven't seen it since, so I can't remember what most of them are. The only one that sticks in my mind is probably the least significant, and maybe I'm even wrong on some of my facts. So I'm going to test it against ye jatraqueros to see if I'm correct in my thinking. If any of you know more than I do, please fill me in.
For some reason, the bit that bothered me the most was at the very beginning, when Legolas is presenting someone (I think it's Jonathan Pryce) with a sword. He's examining it, which he does by putting his hands all up and down the blade, and then re-inserting it into its scabbard. In days before stainless steel, it seems to me that a blacksmith, or anyone familiar with metals, would never touch the blade of a sword without immediately cleaning it afterward, as the oils from his hands would rust the steel.
There you go. Not much of a plot hole, but that's the kind of thing I notice in movies.
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