Sparrow wins.. hands down... duh... well.. unless the Iocane powder came into the mix.. That would be a cool addition to the trilogy.. Sparrow and Will have a little run in with Mr. Roberts.. Who would just so happen to be Boot Strap Bill at the time of course.. because everyone knows he isn't dead right? If he took a coin and sent it to his son, he must've taken a coin.. and if he did that, he was under the curse- he might've been sent to the depths of Davy Jones locker, but he had 10 years to get out..
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
I've thought a lot about that flaw... I've come to the conclusion that I think that Bootstrap Bill didn't take it from the chest itself. Remember that Jack Sparrow is not cursed -- therefore the mutiny that occured there was before they took the treasure. And it was said that Bootstrap didn't like what they did to Jack. So he must have gotten angry before they took the treasure, and refused to be a part of it.
Then, when the others had the treasure, he took one from them, and sent it to Will. Then, they drowned him.
Yes, that is probably wrong, but it's what I came up with, and it's not bad for something that I thought of at 4:30 in the morning. Posted by Koga (Member # 5646) on :
I think he wouldn't be cursed if one of them gave him the coin, the same way the curse wasn't spread to his son, or to any of the people they tried to buy things from with it (since they had to track it all back down), I think haveing stolen it is what curses, so if he didn't take part in the theft, and was just payed with it for working on the ship, then he probably wouldn't be cursed
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Right. That's what I was trying to get at... not that they gave it to him, but that he took it from THEM, so that they would remain cursed. Then he died. Thanks, Koga, for clearing that up. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
What I want to know is how they reasonably managed to track down 882 pieces of gold in only ten years.
Posted by policyvote (Member # 3044) on :
Poor Bootstrap. You sit at the bottom of the ocean . . . counting fish, biding your time . . . ten long years drag by . . . then out of nowhere, you drown.
Tough way to go.
Peace policy
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
They specified the "crushing depths" when they described his fate. I assumed he pulverized.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
He had to have been cursed. If he wasn't cursed then the crew wouldn't have needed his blood to lift the curse, they would have just needed the coin.
Posted by Maethoriell (Member # 3805) on :
I'm assuming they were able to wash the blood off of the coins after th blood was already given. That confused me for a while.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
.....there's a flaw in that, though -- the cursed pirates don't bleed. So there's no way Boostrap could've been cursed...
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
If the cursed pirates don't bleed, then how did Jack cut his hand and put his blood on the coin he took after he was cursed?
And I always assumed that the rest of the pirates' blood was at the bottom of the chest, underneath the gold.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, that raises an interesting question. How did the pirates get their blood onto the coins? How did Jack, for that matter?
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
I agree with Kasie, except that there's also a flaw in that... if the pirates don't bleed, how is it that when Elizabeth sticks a knife in Barbosa's chest, during dinner, he pulls it out and it's covered in blood?
(edit: OK, so I'm a slow typer...)
[ December 28, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Raia ]
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Just to make things clearer, I always assumed that the "blood to be repaid" meant blood from EVERYONE who took a coin, not just Bootstrap Bill. This explains why Jack had to add his blood, or else the curse wouldn't have been lifted.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
more clear.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
transparent?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*thwap*
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I don't think all the pirates needed to bleed, just Bootstrap or his son. I always assumed that Bootstrap wasn't under the curse, for one reason or another. When Will Turner cut himself he put the blood on both the coin that he had, and the coin that Jack threw to him, then he dropped them both in. Techically, it didn't matter which coin the blood was on, as long as the right blood was on one of the coins somewhere in the chest.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Yes, but then WHY DID JACK ADD HIS BLOOD TOO?
I highly doubt that when they wrote and made the film that Jack cutting his hand to put blood on his own coin was a side note. He did it for a reason.
So, if Jack had the curse, and therefore had to add his blood, it seems to make sense that Bootstrap also had the curse, as did all the other pirates from the Black Pearl. Probably the monkey too.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Teshi, Will didn't put his blood on both coins. Before Jack threw the second one to him, his cut his palm and pressed his blood onto the coin.
At least, I'm pretty sure that's what happens.
[goes and checks the video replay]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Does anyone else feel the overwhelming desire to try to mail this thread to one of the writers?
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
There's a part of a fight scene where three skeletonized pirates are stuck together with a spear or something, and Jack sticks a bomb into the ribcage of the middle one. Then he pushes them out of the moonlight, and the pirate can't reach into his own ribcage to remove the bomb.
The pirates physically change when they leave the moonlight. Barbossa's blood is on the blade after she stabs him, because he wasn't in the moonlight. And the pirates can bleed onto the gold for the same reason.
Makes sense to me.
What bothers me is that Jack suffers ten years of decomposition having only taken the gold a few minutes before. After all, the other pirates didn't notice they were dead until after they "killed" bootstrap Bill.
Did anyone else notice the pulse when the gold hits the water the first time?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I think that no one (especially the writers) expected that people such as us would look so deeply into the plot of what was meant to be a swashbuckling (swash swash buckle buckle) pirate story. I doubt that even the writers know exactly how the curse works, and what happened.
The men noticed they were skeletons before they 'killed' Bootstrap, they just didn't know that they needed Bootstrap's (or their?) blood to break the curse.
I think the problem with Jack is a big one, because surely he would notice that he could no longer feel (assuming he immediately turned into a skelaton), and if he didn't although he would technically be dead in the interval that he went between stealing the medallion and replacing the medallion (from thirst), he wouldn't be completely decomposed. However, none the pirates are completely decomposed (some still have eyes, etc).
When the pirates first arrive at the cave, is the moon full? the moon is full when they attack Port Royal, and that night on the ship, and then again the second time they are in the cave. This is either two or one month. I am assuming it is one because another set of moonlit nights between when Jack steals the medallion and when he puts it back would complicated matters (assuming he turns directly into a skelaton).
Javert, did you find out whether Jack cut his hand or not? I didn't see it, and I have seen the movie quite a number of times, but not specifically watching for that point... so it's highly possible.
[ December 28, 2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
Dread Pirate Roberts all the way!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I think that "pulse" when the gold hits the water is partly how they found all of the gold pieces in the first place. Like that one pirate said, it "calls" to them.
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
Hmm... I did not notice Jack cutting his hand, but I could be wrong.
Teshi, you say "full moon" at first, but then switch to moonlight. I thought that it was any moonlight, but I am not at all sure on that point.
It struck me as odd during the movie that Jack seemed to take a real hit from his wound for a while, although he did not die from it. While this is probably reading too much into the story, it might be that his "newness" is what makes that happen, rather than him shrugging it off immediately. On the other hand, it is just as plausible to believe that he was faking it to screw with Captain B.
To my mind, the largest continuity problem is that the pirates did not turn to skeletons when they were raiding Port Royal.
Posted by Maethoriell (Member # 3805) on :
Jack just bursted into the blacksmith's shop without fooling with anything to raise the 'lock'. Whenever Will came in he had to raise the lock and he acted normal meaning nothing was wrong. Therefore meaning the door was already locked. Mr. Brown couldn't of had locked it because he would've been to drunk. Ain't that just odd.
I also didn't get why Jack would try to take back some of the treasure. They all returned it and he knew of the curse, so why take some as well? Posted by Maethoriell (Member # 3805) on :
It was cloudy at the time.
Posted by Kavon (Member # 6038) on :
He was considering being the 'Immortal Captain Jack Sparrow'. And only the Aztec gold was curse. The crown and jewels weren't he was running off with, weren't.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I always thought the whole Bootstrap Bill thing was them leaving themselves open for a sequel, something like the line "Death.... is only the beginning..." at the end of The Mummy.
I'd like to see Bootstrap come back for the sequel...
Posted by Kavon (Member # 6038) on :
Personally, I wanted to see a prequel. Bloom could have still been in it, "he's the spittin' image of Bootstap..." and it would explain a lot better, and have a return of Geoffrey Rush.
Posted by Koga (Member # 5646) on :
I say The Dread Pirate Roberts would win, provided Captain Jack Sparrow was mortal at the time, but then since The Dread Pirate Roberts keeps getting replaced it is hard to say how good of a fighter the person would be who is The Dread Pirate Roberts when Jack is around.
..............
I just wondered why if Will apparently looked exactly like his father none of them seemed to notice it until he said his name. I don't think Bootstrap Bill could have been cursed, because one of the Pirates who was cursed thought Will might be his ghost, if he had been cursed too then they would all have known he couldn't possibly have a ghost, unless you considered each of them a ghost.
Also why wouldn't Jack leave the coin in the chest and just have Will put his back while the Pirates were heading out to the ship, Jack could suprise Barbossa and shoot him before he knew what was coming and then it is just Jack, Will and Elizabeth fighting a few Pirates who haven't had to worry about avoiding being harmed for the last ten years, which would make them fairly easy for those three. I know most of the Pirates under the water could probably swim and would surface fairly quickly unless they wearing stuff that was unimaginably heavy, but the second they surfaced the Naval guys could probably gun them down pretty easily. I know this would make it all too simple and boreing there, and would quite the anticlimax, I get why the writers wouldn't have him do it that way, I'm just wondering if anyone else here sees why that idea wouldn't work.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: Hmm... I did not notice Jack cutting his hand, but I could be wrong.
Teshi, you say "full moon" at first, but then switch to moonlight. I thought that it was any moonlight, but I am not at all sure on that point.
I seems like I am wrong. I really don't remember it, but I do have a memory like sieve and I am terribly unobservant... In that case, it is all the pirates who need to put their blood in- which of course means that Bootstrap was a skeleton.
Any moonlight makes the pirates turn, however it seems like whenever the turn in the movie, it is near to, or at, a full moon. I was using the moon as a calendar.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Also why wouldn't Jack leave the coin in the chest and just have Will put his back while the Pirates were heading out to the ship...."
I believe this is because Jack, for all Will SAYS he's a "good man" at the end of the movie, fully intended for the British navy to be slaughtered by the zombie pirates.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I don't think he really wanted the navy to be slaughtered, but at the same time I don't think he would have cared if they did.
What I think is, he took the coin because by doing so he was lowering the chances of being killed himself.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
I think he wanted somebody to be there to slaughter/capture the mutinous pirate crew when the curse was lifted.
Posted by Kavon (Member # 6038) on :
I have a slight idea.
What if the first person to take a gold peice out for each time the curse is placed, would have to be the one to repay the blood debt?
If Bootstrap DID take the first coin out, it would have to be his blood they needed.
Since Jack Sparrow was in a new group to be cursed, he would have had to pay the debt back as well, hence him cutting his hand.
Would that be a possibility?
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
Perhaps, but what separates a "new" group from an "old" group? Time? Something else?
Posted by Kavon (Member # 6038) on :
Probably time, yes. Perhaps it could be, that since Barbosa put them all back, even without the blood debt, that it resetted the new cursing group.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I think we're all giving it much more thought than the writers ever did.
No matter what, I still think it's a hella cool movie!
Posted by Koga (Member # 5646) on :
it was a hella cool movie indeed, and is resetted a word?
Posted by Kavon (Member # 6038) on :
It is in my dictionary, or my brain dead state. What would work out for you?
Posted by Koga (Member # 5646) on :
<-- has been awake over thirty-three hours now
quote: It is in my dictionary, or my brain dead state.
I was wondering which of those was why I didn't recognize it. Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
<--- Read half the thread, got frustrated and thus had to post.
Don't know if you've already come to this conclusion, but if you listen to the comentary with the writers everything is explained. Everyone who takes a coin directly from the chest is cursed, Bootstrap Bill was crushed, then drowned, and yes, the pirates still bleed.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
*slaps his forehead*
-- Okay, lets set some rules down, I highly doubt the writers wrote a full movie about a certain topic 'The Curse of the Black Pearl' without thinking about this a little- You, on the other hand, just haven't quite thought enough.
- Simply enough. If one is to take a coin from the chest, one is under the curse until all is returned and the blood is repayed. - Everyone that takes one, puts it back with their blood- once all of this has been done. The curse is removed, start over again.
- Jack just wants his bloody ship (and his hat), so he'll take any measures to get it- he's also dragged by curiosity- why not take a coin? If his plan with Will fails, at least he won't be killed, he'll be cursed long enough for the next 'opportune moment'. It also puts him in a state of control. He decides howthe curse is lifted cause he's one ofthe only people left to repay the blood.
- When the moon light hits them that is uncovered by clouds, they're skeletons.. when the clouds are covering the moon, they aren't skeletons. - Watch the movie, they go through great efforts to show what state the moon is in.
- If they need Bootstraps blood, Bootstrap hasn't paid his blood yet, therefore he must be cursed- if he's cursed, he can't die.. though he may be scattered all over the place, he isn't dead till the curse is lifted. -- Most likely keeping it open for a sequal. - which it has now been decided that it'll be a trilogy- the next 2 movies will be shot back to back- much like the 2nd and 3rd Matrix movie. My hopes that there'll be a prequal and then a sequal. -- If you think about it there is alot to be told in the past- Bootstrap and Jack's story, how Barbosa got control of the ship, the way they got to the isle d'morta (spelling?)- I mean, all that treasure? Not guarded by something? And did you see all the ships sunk at the entrance?-- How about the compass? And if you noticed Mr. Gibbs was on the ship at the beginning afraid of pirates- but later on you find out somehow he became friends with Jack before he lost the Pearl.. - and Tortuga? Hello! What about all the women in Jack's past? So many stories untold, his escape from the island- there's alot of meat for the writers to chew on. They could even follow Bootstrap past the point of when this first movie takes place and show how he got free- which would be a perfect lee-way into the next movie- when Bootstrap returns and maybe another bad guy they ran into in the prequal returns after dissapearing from the second movie like Bootstrap.. But i'll stop rambling now.
Anyway about it- Bootstrap is alive until the curse was dropped- where was he when the curse went away? Who knows.. wait for the next 2 movies.
~Sir Montague
Ps- Jack would kick Roberts arse anyday.
[ December 28, 2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Pepek ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I was trying to remember what I meant to ask about when I read the post before this.
What does th compass point to. Somewhere on the DVD, someone says the compass is explained, but it's not. I originally thought the compass pointed to the Black Pearl, but that's not right, because at the very end, Jack uses the compass on the Black Pearl.
Does it point to whatever he wants it to, or the Isle D'Moita (or whatever). Is he going back, at the end of the film, to collect the treasure? Makes sense, but is that it?
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
It points to the island (I'm not even going to try and spell it).
Gibbs makes the comment: "The compass doesn't point north. But we're not trying to get north, are we?"
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I still want to know how Will Turner got out of the exploding ship... He just appeared!!! He was stuck! The ship exploded! What the heck!?!?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
But no one actually ever says "It points to the island."
However, "it points to the island" is now going to be my official reply from now on.
Ryuko, I think that is the one thing in the movie that has no explanation. The only feasible one is that there is a huge great hole in the hull, which is impossible, because the ship would sink far faster than it did. However, the ships are quite far apart by the time the explosion happens, so presumably some time has passed. It is possible that a hole was blown in the hull, but unlikely. (And most unlikely that Will could swim out the hole, against the incoming water.)
[ December 28, 2003, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
They say, "...with a compass that doesn't point north." "But we're not trying to _find_ north, are we?"
Implying that it finds the island...
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I didn't feel like finding the actual quote...thank you pH Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Dude! It's a pirate movie. The plot has some major holes, yes, but so does Captain Sparrow's coat.
I move that they make two prequel AND two sequels. Prequel #1 would have, you know, a plot and other characters and things, showing the mutiny and other minor points in the story (hehe). Prequel #2 would be the full story of Jack's antics on Tortuga, co starring ME in many, many roles.
(I love Captain Jack Sparrow)
Sequels.. Do we even have to go there? Show me Jack at the helm with the wind in his dreadlocks and its paradise with ANY old plot... Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
And smudged eyeliner. Smudged, waterproof eyeliner. You can't forget that part.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
And the teeth. The gooooooooold ones.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Gold grill, dreads, and smudged eyeliner.
No one in the world could pull that off except Johnny Depp.
[ December 28, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: pH ]
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
True, no one can pull of that pirate look...but I sure make one convincing hobbit gardener! Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Javert, you have basically my encompassed my fantasies with one little sentance. Pirate-hobbit-me. Oh, wait, forgot the elf..
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Hmmmm...a Princess eh?
*puts on pirate hat*
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
*removes cinnamon rolls from her ears*
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
*eats cinnamon rolls* Mmmmm...now there's a Hobbit's fantasy life.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Ah, but you've forgotten. I'm a pirate too, savvy?
You've seen the movie...
"It's poisoned!"
But, then, "hobbits never were counted among the very wise." Posted by butterfly (Member # 5898) on :
Captain Jack Sparrow for chiseled good looks (humor included) and Dread Pirate Roberts for boyish good looks.
PS: This thread was a great idea. Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
If it came to a battle of the wits, Dread Pirate would win. If it came to being the better pirate, Sparrow wins. If it came to brandishing swords, they would stab each other at the same moment.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
Wrong T Smith,
Dread Pirate Roberts would tell Sparrow to sleep well and that he'd kill him in the morning, and Sparrow would pull out his gun and run away while only pointing it at Roberts. - And then Will would through a sword at the door.. and Fezzik would throw a rock at something... Duh.
~Sir Montague
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
Ok, it all comes down to this, Captain Jack Sparrow would win with absolutely no contest, because of five simple reasons.
1) Being Jack Sparrow, he does have a large ship with cannons, the Black Pearl mate, and the Dread Pirate Robert's ship, has spears. Spear versus cannon, cannon blows up spear, and half of the nearby county, cannon wins.
2) The Dread Pirate may think hes smart, but in fact he's not, he didn't believe in ROUSs when they existed, showing he is simply immune to poison, not smart, whereas Jack Sparrow is both intelligent enough to understand that someone who identical too, and has the same name of someone, is related to them, and is smart enough to steal two ships at once, Jacl Sparrow wins on brains.
3) The Dread Pirate Robert's is by now about eighty three as is his original crew, Jack Sparrow is much younger, and his crew is also not aged, decrepid, and arthritic.
4) Jack Sparrow can sing this song, and the Dread Pirate Robert's can't.
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. We pillage, we plunder, we rifle, and loot, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho. We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot, Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. We extort, we pilfer, we filch, and sack, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho. Maraud and embezzle, and even high-jack, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. We kindle and char, inflame and ignite, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho. We burn up the city, we're really a fright, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
We're rascals, scoundrels, villans, and knaves, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho. We're devils and black sheep, really bad eggs, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. We're beggars and blighters, ne'er-do-well cads, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho. Aye, but we're loved by our mommies and dads, Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
5) Captain Jack Sparrow has the coolest voice, outfit, demeanor, behavior ever. And yes I do do impersonations of him daily.
That should clear things up mates.
-Rhaegar The Fool
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
*claps*
Posted by Koga (Member # 5646) on :
ok, so Jack would win, but still I feel the Dread Roberts deserves some respect, he is just a cool guy, but the fight really would never take place, what would the two of them fight over.
Oh, and Rhaegar, the original Dread Pirate Roberts has long since given up Pirateing, they just give the name to someone else worry of it, remember? So it is clear what would happen if these two met, the current Dread Pirate Roberts would retire, and Jack would take his place, still in less the a week he stopp calling himself the Dread Pirate Roberts, and instead would be The Dread Captain Jack Sparrow.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
quote: There's a part of a fight scene where three skeletonized pirates are stuck together with a spear or something, and Jack sticks a bomb into the ribcage of the middle one. Then he pushes them out of the moonlight, and the pirate can't reach into his own ribcage to remove the bomb.
The pirates physically change when they leave the moonlight. Barbossa's blood is on the blade after she stabs him, because he wasn't in the moonlight. And the pirates can bleed onto the gold for the same reason.
Then why is it that the pirates can't eat, even when they're out of the moonlight?
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Just for the record...when Barbossa and Elizabeth and all the pirates are in the cave for the first time, Barbossa shouts: And who among us has paid the sacrifice owed to the heathen gods?
Everyone else: US!
Barbossa: And whose blood must yet be paid?
Everyone else: HERS!
So there we are. Everyone's bled on the gold so far, and now they need Turner blood, because he was the only one who hadn't bled on the gold. Unfortunately, he was at the bottom of the ocean--alive but smushed--so they needed his offspring.
Jen
*refuses to admit plot holes in her favorite movie of all time*
Anyway, Jack Sparrow would win.
Posted by Koga (Member # 5646) on :
That's why I said he would be
quote: The Dread Captain Jack Sparrow
Of course he is not going to demote himself to be just a Pirate (dreaded legandary priate or not) when he was already a captian.
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
*Thwacks Koga with pickaxe* Fool! Hear me and obey! He will not be the Dread Pirate Jack Sparrow.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Some random comments:
Jack took the coin because whatever happens, he grabs at anything that might give him an edge. I think he's a man who changes plans at the drop of a hat, the Jackie Chan of pirating, and also he realized that he was one of the two people in the cave who could be killed, an imbalance that clearly would not do.
Jack runs his sword down his hand and then throws the coin to Will. Will drops both coins into the chest from his own bleeding hand.
Will wasn't recognized as Bootstrap's son until attention was drawn to the resemblance for an obvious reason: he was clean. How often would they have seen Bootstrap with a washed, shaven face?
The cursed pirates could eat and drink. They just got no enjoyment or nourishment from it.
The original script (okay, one of the original scripts) had Jack's coin giving him a separate curse that had to be lifted on its own, and one of the deleted scenes shows him replacing it after Barbossa was dead, but the writers finally agreed that it was too confusing. Return all the coins, the curse is lifted. Much easier.
1) Being Jack Sparrow, he does have a large ship with cannons, the Black Pearl mate, and the Dread Pirate Robert's ship, has spears. Spear versus cannon, cannon blows up spear, and half of the nearby county, cannon wins. Um, judging from the movie, being Jack Sparrow apparently means that he loses a lot of ships and spends most of his time getting them back.
Dread Pirate Roberts (Wesley) did believe in the ROUS's (he saw two of them when they entered the Fire Swamp) but said he didn't believe in them to reassure the Princess.
Dread Pirate Roberts vs Captain Jack Sparrow? Depends on which Roberts. The ones before Wesley, I'd give to Jack, no question. Wesley vs Jack I'd call a draw, but the dialogue and the intrique would be wonderful to watch. Wesley advances through sheer competence at everything, Jack through wiliness and uncanny cunning. Fan Fiction writers? Hello? However, it's suggested at the end of Princess Bride that Inigo might become the next Dread Pirate Roberts, and I suspect that a few weeks of swordplay as a pirate captain would bring his skills back up to their pre-drunken height. It was pretty clear in the book that Inigo was far and away the finest swordsman that ever lived, but alcohol and despair and ultimately the lack of a challenge let him slip somewhat so that Wesley could beat him. If Inigo was Roberts, Jack could think circles around him but couldn't possibly best him in swordplay.
You guys watched the movies, right? This is all so clear, and I should know.
[ December 29, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I still think that if it was a battle of swords, they'd kill each other at the same time. Wit is definately in Dread Pirate Roberts hands.
Wesley actually died AND came back, while Sparrow only walked among the undead for a short period.
And besides, Wesley is in love. True love. Do you think that happens every day? So long as Buttercup would be alive, he would win. Kill Buttercup, he'll go insane and kill Sparrow anyway. He bested the best in swords, he bested the best in strength, and we all know he has wit beyond measure. Sparrow has nothing but his ship in terms of what to live for.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
You know, it's strange. I've located lots of hobbit-on-hobbit online fantasies, but very few Wesley on Captain Jack. Who can point me?
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Which Dread Pirate is the question.
Wesley has several advantages over Jack Sparrow--True Love, Competence, Sanity.
Jack Sparrow has a few advantages over Wesley--Need for Freedom, Lack of Sanity, totaly disregard for honesty.
If they were fighting over Buttercup--Wesley wins. If they were trying to get a ship--Jack wins.
If Inigo were the Dread Pirate, the two would sit down to a drinking contest. Jack would cheat, but still lose (He was tricked into overdrinking by a mere girl).
Actually, come to think of it, there is one person who makes the very best pirate.
They out drank/out witted Jack Sparrow.
They know the Pirate code better than any other.
They tricked the best ship in the English Navy into doing their bidding.
When the regular pirates were ready to surrender to the Black Pearl, this pirate came up with three seperate statagems to win the sea battle, and would have been victorious if the opponent wasn't immortal.
They broke out of prison on one ship, snuck onto the enemy ship, freed their crew, and took over said enemy ship.
Then in the final battle, they rescued Jack and Will.
Finally, it was this pirate's ruse that allowed Will to free Jack from the gallows, and this pirate's bravery that allowed both to go free at the end.
Who is this greatest of all pirates?
Elizabeth. She who brings starts the movie admitting her pirating, as she sings the song we all know and love. "A Pirate's life for me." Talk about a woman to put to sea under.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Yes, but has she sailed with a crew out of Tortuga?
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Elizabeth rejected Captain Jack. On a beach in the Carribean (spelling?) no less. I wouldn't DARE sail under someone with that bad of judgement.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Bad judgement? Jack didn't love her. He only loves the Black Pearl (and for good reason). The best that Jack could offer her was a quick roll in the sand, and he got too drunk to accomplish that.
Or did he?
We may never know what happened on that hot tropical beach, after the camera's went off.
In the Deleted Scenes on the DVD (thanks again Kasie) we see Jack saying to Elizabeth, "You and me are alike."
But she still outwits him.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
After the cameras went off Jack got the heck away from her, since she was 17 at the time and her mom was on the shoot. Eek!
Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
I watched the movie for the first time last week while vacationing. Here are my thoughts:
1. La Isla de Muerta or some abbreviated or contracted version of the aforementioned is the name of the island. From Spanish that translates into "island of the dead" or "death island" depending on your preference. Either way you get the picture.
2. The compass points to the island and is not a magnetic compass but a pointer to that specific location.
3. As was mentioned the first time we see Barbosa and his men, it is definitely a foggy/cloudy night. Hence no skeletons.
4. Jack definitely slit his hand and I would tend to agree that he gave himself power by taking the coin and allowing himself to be cursed. If he is somehow injured or killed in the ensuing battle, no harm done, and he is still at the place of the altar and can easily remove the curse when he is ready. It was a smart tactical move on his part.
Hopefully this clears up some of the details that are previously scattered in this thread. I am sure that I have left out a few things, but this post wasn't meant as the final post to the thread; simply a cleaning things up and organizing them for my own benefit. Take it for what it's worth...
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
So far the Pirates 2 rumors are that it'll be subtitled "Treasures of the Lost Abyss," and that it may be 2 and 3 filmed back to back. No assurance on the reliability of either rumor.
So where's Buttercup's Baby, hmm, Mr. Goldman?
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
Yay, people are making sense now..
I havn't got around to all of the commentaries myself yet- only Depp's with the director.. I love how the unic thing wasn't even in the script..
Treasure's of the Lost Abyss huh? TOTLA.. has a good ring to it-- I figure any other movies made will have something to do with treasure.. it is a pirate movie..
You put Sparrow and Inigo together.. That would be one helluva movie.. If done right.. The Dastardly Duo.. Two insane wreckless guys who only hope they know what they're doing. Sparrow has a strange compass.. Inigo has a sword that points where he asks his dad to point it.. Inigo loves his father.. Sparrow loves his ship. Inigo is after the man with 6 fingers who killed his father.. Sparrow is after a guy with one eye who stole his ship.. They both kill the guy who stabs them right before hand.. The two got alot in common.. - Kinda quarky, neh?
~Sir Montague
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
So we actually managed to clear this all up! Amazing, who ever actually managed to translate the Isla de Mueta, which is obvious now I look at it...
Goodness, I can't wait for the sequel.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Is it Spanish "Muerta" said with an English accent? Maybe? (first year spanish speaker/6 year french. french death=morte)
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
Teshi, its kindof sad you didn't know what that meant, and whoever mentioned the eunech thing, you spelled eunech wrong.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
*figured he mispelled it, but also figured he used dictionary.com too often and would not care for once*
As long as you understood what I meant to say, I guess that's all that matters..
~Sir Montague
Posted by Hazen (Member # 161) on :
Rhaegar: It's eunuch.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Some friends of my family just gave me the DVD for Hanukkah (of Pirates, not The Princess Bride). I was excited, it's my very first DVD! (I have over 500 VHS at home, but not a single DVD). It's my first DVD! And I don't have a DVD player! Oh well, I watched it on my computer. Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
I would tend to think that the people are speaking Spanish and not French.
Although I don't doubt that I have a Spanish bias, I am pretty sure that the carribean was much more a Spanish speaking area than French (Yes I know there's Haiti, but more Spanish than French is spoken in the area)
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Don't tell the folks of New Orleans or French Guiana. OK, not quite in the middle of the Caribean, but definately priate places nearby.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
i've been trying to write a Jack sparrow post for three days, and i can't.
it sucks.
Ni!
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
Hazen, now I feel really stupid.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I am going to throw another vote against Captain Jack.
I mean, look at the sissy name.
Jack Sparrow? Oooh. I am going to be afraid of a pirate named after a tiny song bird.
And he spends his whole movie trying to reclaim the dastardly title, Captain.
Scary title Captain. We have other villianous captains to deal with. Captain Stubing. Captain Kangaroo. Captain Crunch.
Face it, of the two Captain Jack Sparrow--whimpy name.
Dread Pirate Roberts--there is a name to strike fear into a land lubber. It has the nasty Pirate right there in the middle. And it starts out with Dread. Anything that starts out with Dread you know has to be really nasty and awful (The Stallone movie Judge Dred comes to mind, extremely awful). And then there's Roberts.
Ok, maybe Roberts isn't to evil, but its a lot more evil-like than Jack. Roberts--robbery. Ancient crimminal background. Jack? You Jack a car up. Ok, you can get Hi-Jacked or Car-Jacked, but, that is just a sub set of the crime of Rob-ery or Roberts-ry. And we all know that at sea, you don't get car-jacked or hi-jacked.
When you are Rob-bed at sea, that is Piracy. So you can see that in all ways, The Dread Pirate Roberts is much more evil and piratical of a name than sweet Captain Jack Sparrow
Though going back to my earlier statement, the scariest priate name of them all.
Elizabeth.
It was Queen Elizabeth who organized and recruited the original pirates--er Privateers--to raid the Spanish in the Caribbean.
She was the leader that sunk the Spanish Armada.
She was known at the time as the Pirate Queen of the Pirate nation of England.
So if you want to winner in names, fear Elizabeth.
(I also think she is way cuter than the other two, though Orlando comes close as Legolas, he ain't quite that cute.)
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
On a related note... was I the only one hoping that the elusive privateer captain at the end of Master and Commander would turn out to be Jack Sparrow? Now THAT would be a movie....
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: Ok, maybe Roberts isn't to evil, but its a lot more evil-like than Jack. Roberts--robbery. Ancient crimminal background. Jack?
cough*JacktheRipper*cough
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
There could be something to this. I know that anything involving Julia Roberts is bound to be awful.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
I jacked something from the store, sounds so much better then I robbed something from the store--
But Commodore Norringtons got the coolest title cause it's got the 'Commandeering' aspect too it. - Tis a pity he doesn't do it though.. Anyway I expect that in the next few movies we'll see a much cooler and powerful Norrington at work- He'll probably be fighting on Sparrows side lost out on an island or something.. -- Now that the curse is gone, I expect we'll be seeing alot more pirating-- treasure finding x-marks the spot kind of stuff.
And Roberts?- Chrimany, it reminds me of the shorter fat kid that hangs around that everyone wants to shutup and leave. Go away Robert..
Jack on the other hand.. well.. that being the name I go by at school in a lot of my classes this year.. I have to defend it.
~Sir Montague
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
*chuckles*
So true Mr. Bridges.. so true..
~Sir Montague
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
You know, there's more to being a pirate than just being dreaded. You have to have that devil-may-care do-anything-for-a-rep attitude (Jack*ss) and with long ardorous journeys at sea with women abourd being bad luck, well, what else do you do which begins with Jack?
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Whoa, whoa, whoa....who's saying the Dread Pirate Roberts would win a battle of wits? I love him, I love the movie, but really. What does he do clever? He doesn't do anything clever to kill Wally Shawn, he's just immune to poison. It was a little bit clever to make Fezzik look scary and on fire, but that was largely luck. How do we think he would have stormed the castle sans holocaust cloak?
I rest my case.
Whereas Jack Sparrow does lots of clever things. Thinks on his feet. All that. Notice the removal of his chains; notice the beautiful escape routine at the beginning; notice the system of getting his ship (actually, I always think people ought to do that, and at last someone did it in a movie! YAY!); et cetera. Jack Sparrow is WAY smarter than Wesley.
On the other hand, Jack Sparrow would, I think, lose during single combat with the Dread Pirate Roberts. He gets banged about a good bit in the last fight with Barbossa.
Jen
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
One... Hundred...
Finally.. this is the first time i've had a topic that reached 100.. Not that I've been trying hard, but hey- i'm proud...
Hah!, you show em' Jen, tell em how it is- Sparrow is the greatest pirate of all time.
Speaking of pirates, I saw Pan last night.. I thought it was absolutely amazing.. besides the pink-pan thing and the I do I do I do believe in fairies bull honkey--- I'm playing Jon in our performance of Peter Pan this coming february, so it's a big difference from the play- I'm just upset that I don't get to kiss Tiger Lilly...
~Sir Montague
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Pepek, introducing another pirate into the discussion now may not be a wise move. Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
I thought of something last night and just had to add it to the thread...
While talking to my brother last week after watching the movie for the first time, he told me that in an interview, Johnny Depp had stated that while preparing for the role and whenever he was "in character" he just tried to think, act, and do whatever he thought Keith Richards would do in that situation.
It still makes me laugh to think about it.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
After I see the movie I alsways seem to add all those things to my character.. besides the eyeliner... - The same thing happens every time I watch strongbad too. Was that somewhere on the DVD?
~Sir Montague
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
How did I miss this thread? Inconceavable!
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Up with Captain Jack Sparrow! He is more pirate-y anyway. I mean, who ever heard of a pirate whose ship we never saw? Wesley was only a pirate to save his life. It wasn't a CALLING for him or anything. Jack Sparrow is a real pirate.
Jen
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Proposal for script emmedation:
At the point where Captian Jack has been surrounded, at the very end of the movie. Will and Elizabeth are blocking the soldiers from getting him.
Paraphrased lines that appear in the movie: CAPTAIN SPARROW: I'm sorry, Miss Swan. It never would have worked out between us, luv. Will...Nice hat.
Proposed emmendation: CAPTAIN SPARROW: I'm sorry, Miss Swan. It never would have worked out between us, luv. Will...Same thing.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
I don't think Bootstrap Bill could have been cursed, because one of the Pirates who was cursed thought Will might be his ghost, if he had been cursed too then they would all have known he couldn't possibly have a ghost, unless you considered each of them a ghost.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
In that case, it is all the pirates who need to put their blood in- which of course means that Bootstrap was a skeleton. ![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)