I would chalk this up as "insignificantly significant results" but I could be wrong.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
O_o
I believe in the power of prayer. But I also believe that this article has little to do with the power of prayer; it mostly has to do with the power of spin. Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Let me get this straight. If I pray for someone now, who was sick a few years ago and got better, they argue my prayes will have helped them get better.
On the other hand, if I pray for someone who got sick, then died, my prayers are what? Wasted?
Or if I get sick and die, should my last words be a condemnation on all those people, past, present, and future, who could have prayed for me to get better, but obvioulsy, didn't, the selfish @#$@#$@#?
Should I them make it part of my nightly prayers to pray for the health of everyone, everywhere and everywhen?
Should I pray to get over the cold I had last year?
Posted by Rudolph (Member # 3236) on :
I'm not reading that article 'cause I don't care what other people think
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I don't believe in retroactive prayer. While God is not bound by time, we physical mortals certainly are.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
So, if someone got sick and then got better, does it mean I have to pray for them cause otherwise I'll cause a time paradox?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
No Kama, it means that you *did* pray for them. Just at some point in the future. Paradox averted.
Let me get this straight. If I pray for someone now, who was sick a few years ago and got better, they argue my prayes will have helped them get better.
quote:On the other hand, if I pray for someone who got sick, then died, my prayers are what? Wasted?
Maybe, when you pray for them, they are cured, and your memory of reality, as well as the current moment, alters to match the fact that they're still alive. Basically, if you know someone who got sick and died, it's because you haven't prayed for them yet. You may *think* that you have, but since they're dead, obviously you're misremembering. It's simple, really.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Or maybe there's an evil little man out there somewhere, wishing for sick people to die, and his prayers and yours are simply nullifying each other, letting nature take its course.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
As it turns out, the people who got the retroactive prayers are now immortal. And they completely escaped the awkward teen years.
To pay the rest of us back, they have taken upon themselves the task of retroactively praying for the good health of every person in the world. Soon, we'll all be immortal at which point we can stop praying and get down to some serious living.
Don't tell your doctor, though. They find this kind of thing very upsetting.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
OK.
If you have ever been sick, and gotten better, you owe me a #@$@ thank you card.
If you are sick, and want to get better, send me cash in the thank you card, or else I won't pray for you next year and you'll stay sick.
I, on the other hand, have not been feeling well. If I don't start feeling better soon, I'm sueing all your praying @#@$@# for malpractice.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
<peeks into thread, then tiptoes in...
This has something to do with the theory that all time is really simultaneous, doesn't it?
<tiptoes back out of thread.
Edit to banish a stray letter.
[ December 29, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: littlemissattitude ]
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
A-ha!
And I bet this works with CURSES, too!
All right - whoever has been cursing me retroactively had better stop last year or I'll start cursing him/her next year!
So there!
Take that!
(And on that note, maybe I'll go watch Anna and the King again . . . )
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:(And on that note, maybe I'll go watch Anna and the King again . . . )
Yes, you'd better, or that movie will never get made!
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Scurries off in fright!
eeeccckkkk -
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Should I them make it part of my nightly prayers to pray for the health of everyone, everywhere and everywhen?
That would, essentially, make you Buddhist.
(But someone really ought to track down that little man and give him a good spanking.)
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I never have assumed that the efficacy of prayer was limited by time. I don't tend to pray that something or other please happen, though. Maybe, given the results of this study, I should start doing that.
Honestly, we (science, I mean) have a very limited idea of how the universe works. There is good reason to believe that a viewpoint outside of time (as we experience it) could and does exist.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I absolutely believe that viewpoints outside out of time exist.
However, I do not have one of them. I am a time-bound being, with all the limitations that implies.
Posted by Shlomo (Member # 1912) on :
Draw and observe a line. A line is a one-dimensional object, meaning it spans only one line. Lines are measured in, for example, cm.
Now, draw a square. It spans a plane, therefore is 2 dimensions. Squares and other 2-D figures are measured as cm^2. They are intersections of lines.
Any cube you draw will not be an actual cube, but merely a depiction of one. It's impossible to draw an object spanning space on one that spans only planes. In fact, "draw" denotes 2-D. So anyways, if you build a cube, it will be measured in cm^3. It will be an intersection of planes.
There is no way that I am aware of to depict a 4-dimensional figure, because my existence spans 3 dimensions, space. Following the pattern, for whatever the pattern's worth, it's (insert measurement for 4 dimensions-whatever that is) will be measured in cm^4 (don't know what those are until measurement is defined) and will be an intersection of space (whatever that means). I've heard people say that the 4th dimension would be time. If there's a logic to that, I can't follow it. All I know is that it exists in nature. I can reach out and touch it, and probably depict it with ease, just as I can touch and depict 2- and 3-D figures. One thing I'm assuming is that the 3rd dimension spans the whole universe. Parallel lines are on a plane and don't intersect, parallel planes are in space and don't intersect...and parallel universes are in (trying to figure that out) and don't intersect (whatever that means). I will also assume that as I can walk through the 3rd dimension by pacing around a room, I can walk through all dimensions. I don't know how, but I know that I can.
NOW...
I throw a ball against the wall (an action spanning 3 dimensions). The ball will collide with a plane. If I throw it especially hard, it could change the actual wall. it could make a dent or even go clear through. What about if the space which we occupy, the universe, is simply a "wall" that can be impacted by an action spanning 4 dimensions? Just take a 4-dimensional "ball" (not really, but a set of all points, in 4 dimensions, equidistant from a fixed point in the center), rear back, annnnd....
What's the 4th dimension? How can we throw a four-(or perhaps 5- or 6-) dimensional ball at the universe? People who believe they have some ability to throw the 4-D ball ought to attempt to figure out what the hell they're DOING before assuming that they can precisely control this "ball"'s impact. For a 3-D parallel (har!), would you want Josh Beckett randomly throwing a fastball in any direction?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
It is possible to make a graph (plot) in 4 dimensions. In fact, The simplest form of such a plot would be a 3 sided pyramid. The three sides on the "bottom" are orthogonal dimensions. Then the 4th dimension is "up" or "down" from the plane that the other three intersect in.
You can put coordinates on each of the 4 axes and plot 4 dimensional objects or events. Essentially, this would be a "projection" of 4 dimensions onto a 2 dimensional "space" (a piece of graph paper).
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