I just wanted to let everyone know that my primary home PC is now hooked up to a 37" Mitsubishi MegaView CRT in the living room, and -- thanks to an ATI 9600 AIW -- does a pretty good job of completely replacing my component stack. As I'm currently using a Biostar iDeq SFF chassis, we've saved enough space that I was able to also put the printer and scanner and XBox into the stereo tower. I'm currently lying on my stomach and using a Gyration wireless mouse and keyboard -- the mouse is especially neat, since the internal gyroscope means you can just wave it around in the air (although this is a decidedly odd experience, and useless while gaming) -- to write to you all from the comfort of my couch.
I now intend to play some really big-screen Call of Duty, then go to bed.
I've concluded that this is, indeed, the wave of the future; coupled with a smaller tablet or handheld for easier text editing and wandering browsing, this kind of set-up has actually eliminated the whole need for an office (which was actually the point in my case, since we're converting that room into a nursery.)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Um. . . Baby Davidson's gonna have some expensive chew-toys. . .
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
Oh ya? well...well...I just bought a 12" G3 iBook so there!
37 inchs? At what resolution? Dear goodness...how the heck did you actually get the thing carted in?! Though, I'm curious...why not a LCD TV with DVI hookup instead? Also, how's the gyro mouse working for you? Since I saw one on thinkgeek I've been curious how well they work, mind you I'm happy with my logitec wireless optical setup, but it looked like a lot of fun. Satyagraha
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I didn't get a LCD because a 37" LCD would have cost me at least $2000, whereas I was able to get this CRT shipped for under $500 (from eBay.) Of course, moving it WAS a hassle; it weighs 260 lbs.
The mouse is actually pretty cool, but it's kind of difficult to select menu options (or aim in games) with it; you have a tendency -- or at least I do -- to move your wrist a bit when you click, and since the mouse is sensitive enough to pick up on slight sideways movement, you often wind up sliding right off the menu option you're trying to select.
I'm still getting used to that aspect, but I'm improving. *laugh*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Tom...you're almost ready for the next step. An LCD projector and 3 yards of 60" wide fabric on which to display images.
That's my TV. When I get my wireless network hooked up, I'll also be able to use my laptop in the Den where the projector is so I can do the giant computer monitor thing up to 9' wide and 5' tall.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
<relieved this isn't an onanism thread>
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
My one concern about projectors, Bob, was color fidelity. I do a lot of image editing on my machine, and I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to trust the contrast and saturation on a projector. Are the newer DLP ones better for that purpose?
Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 6155) on :
Well...in my opinion...GET A MAC! G5!!!!!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I think you just described my dream computer, Tom. I'm totally jealous.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Total cost of my self-assembled AMD 2700+ system with a 250GB HD, Radeon 9600AIW Pro, 1GB PC2700 RAM, THX-certified sound, Firewire & USB2, 4x DVD+_RW, and wireless LAN, all in a case that's nearly silent and 8"x8"x13": $640.
Cost of a slower, larger G5: $2999.
----
You should be, Jon Boy. You should be. Seriously, the machine's kind of cool. If you had told me three years ago that something this small could benchmark so well, I'd've actually laughed at you. I highly recommend the Biostar case so far; it seems to outperform the Shuttle equivalents in almost all ways.
(That said, here's one warning: the iDeq uses a strange card-mounting system for its PCI and AGP slots, which makes it very difficult to mount any cards that have connectors like antennas or sockets sticking more than a quarter inch out of them. This meant I had to actually bend the backplate of the Radeon card before I could get it to slide into the case, and then bend it back to secure it. But that's minor, IMO.)
[ February 08, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 6155) on :
I see
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Your single AMD 2700+ is faster than a dualie g5 2.0? Got any benchmarks to back that up?
Also, while they likely don't matter to you the G5 has a few perks that your system doesn't: gigabit ethernet, firewire 800, up to 8 gigs of RAM, SATA, OS X, and iLife
Self assembled in high end computers is almost always cheaper than factory pre-made. Similar computers to the G5 are similar in pricing pre-made from the major vendors .
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Actually, I think that's better than my dream computer. I've been pining for an Athlon XP 2500+ (because it's the cheapest one with the 333 MHz FSB), and I wasn't planning on upgrading my hard drive, video card, or CD drive just yet. Of course, I don't even have the money for my more modest dream computer, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt to dream of a better one.
So where did you buy all your parts? NewEgg has the best prices that I know of.
[ February 08, 2004, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I got the iDeq chassis at NewEgg after rebate; it was the most expensive part of the machine, hands-down, but has built-in SATA, Firewire & USB support, THX sound, and 10/100 LAN. (Based on the NForce, it's also got a GeForce 4MX onboard -- so if you can't spend the money for a good video card right now, you can at least muddle through with a passable one.)
The other components were purchased over a period of four months, by taking advantage of CompUSA's numerous rebates and holiday sales; when I'd see a component at a "Gee, that must be a mistake" price, I'd buy it and hold onto it until I had enough assembled to build the machine. (That's partly why I'm so elated about this; I've had this computer planned for MONTHS, and the arrival of a 37" monitor for $500 shipped and a DVD burner for $40 finally made it possible.)
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
but this one goes to 11
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I've got a GeForce4 MX440 right now, and it seems to handle all my games well enough. The real problem is that I don't need a new computer; my Athlon 900 MHz actually runs faster (overall, at least) than my wife's Celeron 1.6 GHz laptop. So for now, my dreams of an iDeq computer are being postponed until a time when I've got four or five hundred dollars to spend on a new toy.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Ooh, it does have SATA? Cool Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
And how much did the computer cost if we factor in all the time you spent scouring for those deals? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Luckily, most of this time was spent at my desk at work, so I was technically being reimbursed for it. Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
That actually makes the accounting much easier. Whether or not you paid it, it was still a cost. Just total it in at rate you're paid when broken down hourly, we'll neglect the costs of benefits for our estimate .
Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 6155) on :
Yeah you have to add on all the time of labor it took to make it when you could have been working and making money. How long did it take you?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Tom, you obviously know way more about this than I do. I just spent time looking for a projector that cost less than $1000 that would hook up to a VCR and DVD as well as the computer. I bought outdated technology on purpose.
As you get higher-end equipment and newer stuff, the costs go sky high.
In addition, if you are worried about color fidelity, I imagine you'd want a really good screen, not just a piece of thick white fabric. And, if that's the case, you'll spend as much on the screen as you do on the projector. Seriously!!! They are so darned expensive. That's why I went out and bought fabric and two wooden poles.
Actually, your set up sounds fantastic. I was just joking about the next step being a projector.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
(also, in a very real sense you still paid it; if you had't been looking for the computer parts you would have been doing something else you enjoyed with the time: opportunity costs are important )
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Is that CRT a monitor (multisync) or a TV (NTSC only)?
I've been the proud owner of a 36" Princeton monitor, formerly of Gateway Destination vintage, since 2001. Wow, that seems like a long while now, but timespan or not it was clear within minutes that I couldn't go back. Instant access to the terabytes of media hiding in the closet while channel-surfing with the wireless mousewheel is geek nirvana. Many techie friends insist it's not a true HTPC setup without a custom-GUI'd remote-control-driven interface, but all of my roommates since then (technical and non) have found the keyboard/mouse combo more intuitive than endless rows of buttons spread across a half-dozen remotes.
The geometry and convergence aren't so hot, and it only does 800x600 -- but that's still higher than any normal TV or EDTV, and better than a lot of the "HDTV"s that are being sold in the recent craze. All for $500 on eBay, from a very lucky guy who, within a few hours' driving distance, didn't have to ship its 200+ lb on a crate or something equally annoying. My buddies with DLP projectors and big HD RPTVs make me jealous every now and then, but considering most of the material I view is telecined TV or DVD (i.e. 480p), I'm not going to spend the big bucks anytime soon.
Posted by Argèn†~ (Member # 4528) on :
quote:That actually makes the accounting much easier. Whether or not you paid it, it was still a cost. Just total it in at rate you're paid when broken down hourly, we'll neglect the costs of benefits for our estimate . ... ...also, in a very real sense you still paid it; if you had't been looking for the computer parts you would have been doing something else you enjoyed with the time: opportunity costs are important:))
I know of something else where this argument is used and basically snubbed because they say those who use it are being impractical.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Who on earth ignores opportunity costs?!
*grumbles about people not understanding economics*
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
:sincerely hopes Robespierre doesn't run a search on "economics" for member #2859:
So it's not a computer in your living room, it's a living room/computer.
We recently moved our newest computer into the living room. It's in a locking Armoire, and now that I think about it, it was really silly to have the locking armoire in the office with the other two computers. (we didn't want the other computers to have self esteem problems?) Actually, we have a 3 year old who's favorite game is finding the screen saver that locks up the system. On the iMac, he likes to take icons out of the folders. The very feature I told my husband was the reason I wanted a mac.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I have one computer. Since it came into my possession two and a half years ago, I have added a $50 printer (on sale), a $15 replacement used A Drive, a $15 CPU fan because the one in there died, and a free replacement monitor that my dad "stole" from the ones the school board was throwing out.
The computer itself is made almost entirely from spare parts. The CD drive and the tower casing were bought new - total cost $75 dollars.
I think I must be the stingiest computer owner ever.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
quote: Your single AMD 2700+ is faster than a dualie g5 2.0? Got any benchmarks to back that up?
Yeah, he can play games, and do things with x86
IE GAMES; Heck even USE windows
[ February 09, 2004, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: raventh1 ]
Posted by Liquor and Fireworks (Member # 5785) on :
quote: a $15 replacement used A Drive
You paid $15 for a used floppy drive? Being that you can by a new floppy for about ten, or just not buy a floppy drive at all like I did, you got screwed (no offense intended). But at least it was only $15.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Oh, I'm certain he has good reasons for having an x86 mark. But faster with a chip that's not very many MHz above a single G5 2.0? This I doubt.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Richard, it's a multisync monitor (capable of 1024x768 @ 70Hz, although I mostly run it at 800x600 when I'm not gaming). That Princeton model, by the way, was one I SERIOUSLY looked at -- and would have purchased one, in fact, but for a bid vulture on eBay who sniped my $399 snipe with half a second remaining. *grumble*
[ February 09, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I can't understand half of this thread... but suffice to say that when I need a new computer, I now know who to come looking for.
Tom, Jon Boy and Bob, you will be called upon!
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Why did you get a 2700+? I just bought a computer and went with the cheaper and easily over clockable 2500+ and the difference in cost between PC2700 and PC3200 RAM is negligible.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm never going to overclock a small form factor machine, and the rebate on the OEM 2700+ (when purchased with Geil RAM) made it worthwhile.
A surprising number of my purchasing decisions were founded primarily on the size of the attached rebate. Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Rebates rarely pass the "opportunity cost" test with me these days. Building computers doesn't count since it's fun and I can do it in like 25 minutes, but maintaining a giant list of companies who owe me money in Excel is no fun at all. Maybe if I wasn't a long, long walk from the nearest Xerox...
I love dualies as much as anyone (somewhere in my house there is a 2xCeleron366@550, a 2xP700@1GHz, and the machine I'm typing on is a 2xAthXP1600+), but unless you're a multitasking video-editor-developing geek like me a single Athlon will be considerably faster than a dual G5.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
That is one seriously sweet setup, Tom.
...but what's the point of having a SFF machine if it's hooked up to a massive CRT? I like SFF -- if I was going to switch to Windows, I'd build a system in a Shuttle case like the SS51G -- but to my mind the only display to hook something like that up to is a thin 17" LCD, thus minimizing the space occupied by the entire package. Or is it more of a "fitting it in a cabinet" thing? That would make sense, if you were putting it in a space that would normally be occupied by a VCR, for instance. Still, points for style.
Though I'm not sure how I feel about the "living room computer." For me, the computer is not something to gather around with the family or housemates, which is what I'd normally do in the living room. Generally the only TV I watch is the news, typically over dinner, so having a computer in the living room would be an inconvenience. A HDTV+DVD player combo would make more sense, though I guess the HDTV alone would be more expensive than your entire setup.
I guess after all that, I think I understand why you built what you did. Very cool.
>> ...but unless you're a multitasking video-editor-developing geek like me a single Athlon will be considerably faster than a dual G5. << (RB)
Duals are nice for audio work, too, which is why I very much appreciate my dual G5.
[ February 09, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
Tom: next Madtown gettogether will include a demonstration of your mouse Or at least post pics of your new settup? My suitemate is building a mini computer...but instead of getting a case he's made it so the system will be completely passivly cooled (p4 mobile) and is putting it in a lego case. Satyagraha
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I must admit that a Lego case would be MUCH cooler. Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I assume you mean that figuratively Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
quote:A HDTV+DVD player combo would make more sense, though I guess the HDTV alone would be more expensive than your entire setup.
1024x768p is more resolution than you'll find in all but the highest-end 9" CRT-driven HDTVs. Add the $200 HDTV tuner card of choice to the computer and you're in business. Meanwhile, all your DVDs and TV archives can be upscaled and/or deinterlaced more intelligently than the onboard circuitry of any off-the-shelf display. If you're like me and everything you consume (other than basketball games) is streamed off a crazy server in the closet, there's no way you can live without.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:You paid $15 for a used floppy drive? Being that you can by a new floppy for about ten, or just not buy a floppy drive at all like I did, you got screwed (no offense intended). But at least it was only $15.
They were selling the new ones for $25. In that light, $15 didn't seem too bad. And I need the floppy drive. At the time, I had no net hookup, and a burner is significantly more expensive. Not to mention all the old files that I have stored on floppies. Meh. It works.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
It might be that I just don't watch that much TV Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Wait for it...wait for it...pwned. (I actually know a guy named Jonathan Greene who lives in Chapel Hill, but he's not a tool).
I don't watch TV much either, but when I do, it's quality commercial-free entertainment from around the world. The cable connection only provides Duke games and the ability to cap a couple SciFi shows for my partners in crime.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Oh man, I'm crying here, that was pure gold! I wasn't sure what you were going to be linking to, but the minute the link opened up I burst out laughing. I'd already read that one, and it cracks me up every time
Edit: I love that the guy in the picture is reading a Harper's. I have a subscription to Harper's.
Oh, and I'm better than you. (I dressed up as that guy for a party last night, beret, Apple mug, French sweater, and all.)
[ February 10, 2004, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: twinky ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote: Who on earth ignores opportunity costs?!
Fugu, can you explain more about this to me? My husband is supposedly an economist but insists that he makes $35 an hour, but since he doesn't work 60 hours a week it seems like he really makes (available hour/ income). Is that relevant to opportunity costs? That's not even taking overhead into account.
Posted by scottneb (Member # 676) on :
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread. But I think this is fairly relevant:
PowerBook G5 with AirPort and an LCD projector. Easy as that. It will save you from pulling your hair out.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I'm not good with the numbers and letters,that you guys are slinging around, but since we moved the computers out of the family room and into our freshly painted "computer room", we've been watching a lot less TV. Because before we'd sort of track a TV program while at the computers and now we don't. I'm not sure if this is good or bad.
AJ
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*beats head against wall* You know, had I said "I've been a Buddhist for years, and finally selected a monastery into which I will be moving shortly," I would not have had people posting "I haven't read the whole thread, but: Islam."
[ February 17, 2004, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
How dare you speak ill of Islam! I have a whole slew of independent studies here that clearly show Islam to be far cooler than Buddhism. Plus, Islam is better packaged and gives you more bang for your buck! Also: bite me!
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
An opportunity cost is whatever you would be making if you were doing your next best opportunity instead of what you are doing.
For instance, if you're making $30,000 a year at one job, and someone offers you a different $40,000 a year job, your opportunity cost (we're being simplistic and ignoring other aspects of the jobs) is no $40,000 a year.
Typically one switches doing what one's doing when opportunity cost > current value, or at least when opportunity cost > current value + cost of switching.
Your husband is paid $35/hr of work, which when speaking colloquially means he makes $35/hr. If he works one hour a day he's also being paid $35/day. They're just different units of looking at things in (an hour of work cannot be converted to a number of days or a number of hours of workable time unless one knows the conversion factor). Different units aren't opportunity costs.
His opportunity cost is the value of the next best thing he could be doing during the hours he does work.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Wow, Tom, doesn't Christy mind?
Nah, not about the monastery thing. About the dented walls . . .
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
To get back on track...I'm going to build my new system based off that chassis. I've wanted a PVR for quite a while, this looks like a nice way to do it (and to be able to play games faster! UT2k4 here I come!).
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I'm sorry Tom. I was just trying to figure out if you use your TV screen (which is what I thought it was, before I got lost) for your computer how much less TV you would be watching, if any. I also had this little mental tangent of is replacing TV time with computer time actually a good thing?
(you can return to all of your regularly scheduled computer acronymns now)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
The very feature I told my husband was the reason I wanted a mac.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I like SFF -- if I was going to switch to Windows, I'd build a system in a Shuttle case like the SS51G -- but to my mind the only display to hook something like that up to is a thin 17" LCD, thus minimizing the space occupied by the entire package. Or is it more of a "fitting it in a cabinet" thing? That would make sense, if you were putting it in a space that would normally be occupied by a VCR, for instance. Still, points for style.