I'm so happy. I've just started writing my first piece of fiction. My question is,"Now, What?" Where can go for help with grammar? Jon Boy, any ideas? How about copyright?
Once I've gotten it proofread and coprighted, how do I go about getting it published?
I'm not sure wheter it will be a novel or short story. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
*bump*
I really hope somebody can help me.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
First of all, I'm fairly certain that Douglas Adams has a copyright on "Now, What?" I'd steer clear of phrases like that.
For grammar, I've heard there's a real active community on Orson Scott Card's - he's a sci-fi author - website.
I'm not sure about copyrighting something. I've never officially done it, but my dad has for some music he's written. I believe you send your stuff somewhere.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Now what isn't the title, it's a plea for help. I started this thread so that someone might volunteer to help with grammar.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I think she means the writer's workshops link near the top of this page.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Oh. Thanks pooka. Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Copyright is automatic. No need to do a thing about it.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
My advice is to write it first. That will answer the question of whether it's a novel or a short story, among other things. Don't worry about trying to publishing it until after you've gotten it written. You'll find that's an education in and of itself.
I'm sure there are people right here at Hatrack who would be willing to critique it for you when it's finished, depending on its length.
As for grammar, just do the best you can. You'll know very quickly if you need to haul out the old grammar textbook again.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I agree with AFR -- just get it written first. Worry about the grammer when you get to the first edit after the story is done.
FG
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thank one and all for the advice. If this thing ever does get published, I'm definitely mentioning OSC and the residents of the Hatrack River in the dedication. One Jatraquera, in particular will be mentioned. You know whou you are. Thank you. Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
I was just wondering if Y'all would be interested in periodic reports on the progress of my first story. Did I just say y'all? Oh well. I know many of you are writers, so I thought some of you might be interested in following my journey into writerdom. Writerdom? Is that a word?
Anyway, I'm up to 677 words. Yay! Let me know if there's interest in future updates.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Pooka: Ahem. "She"? Oh well, what goes around, comes around, I guess.
Sorry Derrel. I was just trying to give you the least advice in the longest way possible. I thought that would be apparent. ::sigh::
Anyway, I'd be interested in your story.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thanks, Goat. I'm now up to 835 words. When I post the first excerpt, should I post it in this thread, or start a new one? How much of it should I post?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I suggest asking for volunteers, and emailing it to whoever says they'll look at it. That's how many jatraqueros have done it. I also suggest waiting until you have a complete story or chapter.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thanks, AFR, I'll do that.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
When you finish, you should mail it to yourself and keep the envelope sealed. That way if anyone tries to take credit for your story, you can bring the sealed, dated, postmarked envelope up as evidence.
Posted by GZ (Member # 6077) on :
You don't want to post more than a small fragment (we use 13 lines over in the Writers Workshop) of anything you want to try to publish later, because otherwise you have effectively published it. Editor's don't want to buy things that people have already published.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thanks, Ryuko. I'll do that. Should I do it with the revisions or just the final draft? I'm still writing it, but I'm up to 1128 words.
What is the minimum length for a novel? What's the average length of short stories? Thanks again for all the advice everyone. Posted by GZ (Member # 6077) on :
A great source for some free writing information on the basics is www.swfa.org -- even if you don't want to do science fiction and fantasy.
Novels are usuall 90K+ words, although I think 60K is the minimum for the Nebula awards.
Short Stories is anything less than about 10K, and, though it depends on genre, are often around 2000 to 4000 words.
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Derrell,
I'd be happy to read it. Just send it to me when your finished. My e-mail is in my profile. Good luck.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
First of all, good job starting! Half of us don't get that far.
But, it is VERY VERY unlikely you will get your first story published. Right now, You're trying out your style, the kind of story you want to write, pacing, dicription, dialogue, and a million other things you need to hone before you're publishable.
Your second and third and fifteeth stories are bound to be better than this one, because you'll understand your skills better.
I'm not saying you'll NEVER get published, only that it'll take a LONG time, and a LOT of rejection slips.
Ni!
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
I'd like to ask those of you who are writers to share stories about your journey to writerdom. They can be stories about getting published, getting rejected, or the process of getting the story finished. Any takers?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
The process of "getting the story finished" is my favourite one. It's a bit lengthy though.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Teshi, if you have a story to share, I'd love to hear it. Who cares if it's long.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
If anybody is interested, my story is almost to 2000 words. If nobody's interested,it's stiil at almost 2000 words. And for anyone who doesn't care, I have but one thing to say to you. OK,that's three things, so sue me.
I'd still like to hear some stories about writing from those who have been down the path I now find myself on.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
I remember when I got my first rejection. I was so excited! My first rejection! Only a hundred more rejections to go before I get published.
What was said before is true, even of very talented writers. Once you take up the craft seriously, expect to be writing a few years before you get published. It is kind of like going to college. It takes a bit of training.
Of course, you may be that exceptional writer. In fact, you probably need to believe that.
Congrats on the 2000 words.
The fact that you didn't know if it would be a novel or a short story suggests to me that you need to have a slightly more concrete idea about what you are writing. The short story and the novel both have slightly different requirements and structures to work. For instance, you have only about the first three sentences in a short story to get across who your protagonist is and what kind of a story it will be. People should be solidly into the story by the first page. A short story can really only handle about 2 major characters and a handful of minors. Less is more, here. A novel, OTOH, can take a few pages to introduce a character. You can have a handful of main characters and tens or hundreds of minor characters. (Be careful about the hundreds. They better bring something to the story, each and every one of them.)
Anyway, good luck and keep on writing. Even when it isn't fun.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thanks,Amka. The more I write, the more convinced I am that this will be a novel. I don't think I can adequately tell the whole story in a short story.
Now I have a question about the past. What's the best way to weave past events into a story. I'd like to hear your opinions on the subject. The central character's past plays a vital role in telling the story. For those who have written fiction, how have you brought up past events. Would it be better to reval the past in small pieces, or in one big chunk?
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
I can't believe I'm already up to 2500 words. Once I start writing, it seems I can't stop. Does this happen to anybody else?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
All the time. Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
You are on a roll, and that is a good thing. Ride it while you can.
It depends on how far in the past your event is. It may be that your started the story in the wrong place and you need to write a new beginning. You can use what you've written now, but it will just occur later on.
Or it may be so far in the past and off the story line that starting there would be awkward. In that case, just remember the pros and cons of how you introduce this past information. Just remember that flashbacks, while divulging something useful, can stop the narrative of the story. It is a price you have to pay. Is it worth it? If you can break it up into chunks without losing clarity, that will help the story move along a little smoother.
Look at it through your character's eyes. Under what circumstances will your character remember that past? Will they pour themselves into the memory and go over and over it, being consumed by it so that it destroys them or will flashes of it merely occur to them over the course of their activities now, or anything inbetween.
Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1376) on :
Speaking of flashbacks, you had better divulge pertinent information right away. If you spring the fact that he's a black-belt in some ancient for of Japanese martial arts on me at the last moment, I will feel cheated. Keeping information from the readers that the POV character knows, for no reason, is kind of dangerous and yet dumping information on your readers is also dangerous.
Perhaps consider informing the audience by inference only. I'm reminded of the first season of ER. They start it off with Dr. Ross (Clooney) and Nurse Hathaway (Marguilies -- horrible spelling there, btw) already having a history; although that history is never explicitly stated, you get a feel for exactly how it is after a while.
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
All right, Derrell. Keep that writing going!
Rahl... everything reminds you of ER accept when it reminds you of Friends. Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1376) on :
Season 2 comes out April 27th!
"Rib spreaders, STAT.... I said STAT people!"
Posted by Knight Ender (Member # 6205) on :
Hi, first post.
I wrote a short story and sent it to a bunch of my friends on the Ornery American forum, and they helped a lot. I finished it and it's about 8500 words. There was some good advice in the posts above, so thanks. What is your story about? I registered just to ask, (actually Lalo invited me about three weeks ago, but) so please reply. Thanks.
KE
Hey, y'all got more smiley characters than us!
[ February 14, 2004, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Knight Ender ]
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Welcome to Hatrack. My story is about a guy who follows his dream to run away and join the circus. The working title is "My Life As A Clown."
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Derrell, click on the Uncle Orson's Writing Class link above. Read everything. After all, we know he knows what he's talking about. One of them is on introducing info from the past. He even gives two examples. Good stuff.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thanks, AvidReader. I've read the lessons in the past, but now that I've started writing, I'll have to go back and read them again.
I'm now up to 3050 words. I hope some of you will share your successes and failures in this thread, so that I can learn from them.
Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
My writing history, to some extent:
It started off in 7th grade, when I decided to begin writing some poetry. It was absolutely horrible. In 8th grade, I became very serious about my poetry, and in a gigantic leap halfway through eight grade, my poetry went from horrible to utterly amazing. So amazing, in fact, that a few of the poems I wrote at the beginning of that jump are still better than any other poem I've written since then.
These poems boosted my ego greatly. Eventually, near the end of 8th grade, I convinced myself that I was going to write a novel. I started writing it, as well as my poetry, through ninth grade. Then, I went to OSC's Writer's Class, and realized that my novel was an utter p.o.s. I chucked it out and decided I'd rather start writing short stories, and work up to a novel in the future.
My first "real" short story was written at the beginning of tenth grade. Actually, I wrote it, and then a few weeks later we had to write a short story in my english class. I turned in this story and got an A on it. Looking back, the story was an utter p.o.s., save for some good raw ideas.
I wrote a few poems between the beginning of 10th grade to 11th grade, but by 11th grade, I was sick of poetry, finding short stories and such much more fascinating. I knew I could write a much better story than I had in 10th grade, but I never really got around to it.
Then, in 11th grade, we had to write a fact-based scary story (involving American History) around Halloween for our history class. Well, we were SUPPOSED to. Most of the rest of the class crapped out and my teacher allowed them to simply find a story and read it. I was excited though. This was my chance to shine. I did some research on a specific haunted house in my area and wrote a short story involving that house. I got an A- on that story. Whereas it's not the best story I've ever written, it's still something I'm very proud of. This was the point in my writing where I started writing stuff I was proud of.
I wrote a few more stories in 11th grade. Some were much better than others. All of them were fairly rough, except for that history story. All of them DID have flaws though. For example, in the history one, I didn't really dive deep enough into the character's personality. It was much more plot driven, as were a bunch of the stories I wrote afterwards.
My senior year came and I kept writing. My main weaknesses that I knew of were "too plot-driven", and I felt my dialogue was weak. Still I kept writing. And one day, I wrote a story, and I looked at it. It had a good balance of plot and character development, not to mention the dialogue was fine.
I realized that, looking back at my writing history, the more I wrote, the more I learned how to write better. It made so much sense.
I even wrote a screenplay for my film and video class. About a 30 minute movie. My principal wouldn't allow me to film it for class (which upset me a LOT) because it was "too mature" (as in, the protagonist was a cutter, though for completely different reasons, and it ended on an uplifting, healing note). He DID say however that the screenplay was very good. And he said the dialogue was excellent.
Anyway, I'm still writing now, and my writing is getting better and better. I've joined a hatrack writer's group, and I often ask fellow hatrackers to critique my stories. (Which, btw, does WONDERS for my stuff. It's hard to believe how polished my stuff is after it's critiqued by everyone.)
And to finish this tangent-filled post, I'll give you an example of the vast differences in my stories. A few weeks ago, I asked Mack to read one of my stories. She couldn't get into it because it bored her, or something like that. (A side note: You cannot take stuff like that personally. While Mack didn't like the story, a bunch of other hatrackers loved it, and many were confident that it will get published. It's currently been polished, edited, and submitted to a magazine.) Anyway, the other day I began a new short story. I got Mack to read the beginning, and she IM's me back, saying something along the lines of "Holy Poo! If you don't finish writing this story I'm going to kill you."
So yeah, to sum up this entire, long-winded, tangent-filled post: Practice, Practice, Practice is utterly correct. The more you write, the better you get at it.
Oh yeah, and reading a lot helps too.
-Noah
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
And with that post, Noah's writing improved by one gold star. Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Thanks, Noah. My story is up to 3500 words. Noah, would you be interested in reading the first part of my story? I don't know if Mack would or not. It's about a guy who leaves home at 18 to follow his dream of joining the circus. I'd love the feedback. If your interested, let me know the best way to get it to you. I can e-mail you what I've got so far, or post some of it here on Hatrack. Mack, you can read it too, if you want to. I'm interested in finding out what others think of it.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Noah, or Mack if you're interested in reading what I've written so far, you can e-mail me or just post in this thread. My e-mail address is in my profile. Again, thanks for the input.
[ February 14, 2004, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Derrell ]
Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
send it over to IceDragon60@aol.com and I'll try to take a look at it soon.
Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
quote:And with that post, Noah's writing improved by one gold star.
And with that post, Jamie's "brownie points from Noah" score just improved by one chocolate brownie point.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
3662 words. I'm sorry if I'm boring everybody with this, but I'm so excited about this. I know that I have a long way to go before I can make a living doing this, but I've taken my first steps down the path to writerdom.
Did anyone else around here get this excited when they started writing their first story, or am I just weird? I know that asking that question is like waving a red cape in front of a bull, but I'll take my chances. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
When do I see those brownies?
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Noah, I just e-mailed you the story. I'm writing it in Microsoft Works, so it should be easy to open the attachment. If you have trouble with it, let me know and I'll paste the story into the body of an e-mail. Thanks.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Noah, can I have some brownies too. MMMM, brownies. Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
Received. MSWord is fine.
And Jamie, it'll take a lil bit to make em. They're SPECIAL brownies. No snowboarder should be without some.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
By special brownies, do you mean they contain that special ingredient that Cheech & Chong were so fond of. Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
I hope you like the story. As for the special brownies .
Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
*cough* Of course not. (And yes, the coughing pun was intended)
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Noah, Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Derrell... I think it's fantastic that you are so excited about this story. I wish I had that much enthusiasm for my own work. Can't wait to read your stuff. Just send it to the e-mail address in my profile.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
larisse, I'd be happy to have you read my story. I'll get it to you As soon as possible. I'd like your input on plot development, character development, etc. You don't have to critique the grammar, unlees you really want to. I have someone helping my fix my grammatical errors.
Noah, I replied to your e-mail. I sent it at about 11:30 PM Mountain time. on the 14th. I add all this information because I don't know when you'll read this post. Don't worry about the grammar.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
larisse, I just sent you a copy of the story. I sent it not long after I sent Noah his e-mail. (about 11:50 PM)
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Again, I would like to thank all those who have given me advice, shared stories, and expressed interest in my story. There are currently 3 Hatrackers who have copies of the story and have agreed to give me their feedback. If anyone else would like to read it, let me know.
The next part of this post is for that certain, special, Hatracker. Noah, i don't mean you. Sorry, but this person is far better looking and is my official proofreader. No, I'm not talking about Jon Boy.
Thank you for being my friend and for helping me with the grammar in this, story and the previous piece of writing I sent you. I don't know if words can adequately describe what your friendship means to me. You are the one who inspired me to write the story that spawned this thread. You also inspired me to write the essay I sent you. I don't know if essay is the right word ofr it, but it's not a work of fiction. I suppose you could call it and ode. You have comforted me in times of sorrow and inspired me to take chances. You are my muse, and my friend. If this public praise embarrases you, I apologize, not for the praise, but for the embarrasment.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled post.
This is exciting for me and I'm happy to share the journey with my Hatrack family. I'm up to 3823 words and loving every minute of the time I spend writing.
I wonder if Orson ever visits this side of the river? I wonder what he'd think of the story I'm writing? I've read through the writing lessons, but would love to get personal feedback from OSC. I think I'd be a little nervous about him reading it, though.
Earlier I singled out one particular Hatracker for special thanks. Just in case anybody's wondering, this Hatracker is a Jatraquera. So it couldn't be Noah or Jon Boy.
Thank you all, and to that particular jatraquera, a very special thank you.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Larisse, I sent the story to you in rich text format. I'm sorry you weren't able to read it before. Thanks again, for the agreeing to read it.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
okay, okay. Mail it to me. Email in my profile. Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Jamie, I just sent you an e-mail with the story attached. I hope you like it, but if you don't, please don't come to Arizona and kick my butt. Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Woo hoo! I'm up to 4166 words. For those who are reading the story, take your time. When you're done, I'd appreciate some feedback. You can post it here or send it by e-mail. If you're that certain, special Jatraquera, you can give me your feedback via AIM.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
*bump*
Hey, it's my thread, I can bump it if I want to. I'm almost up to 4500 words. I need to share my excitement with somebody.
* Happy, happy Joy, joy Happy, happy Joy, joy* This concludes our Ren & Stimpy flashback for today.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
quote:Just in case anybody's wondering, this Hatracker is a Jatraquera. So it couldn't be Noah or Jon Boy.
Ah. Pat?
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
No. Sorry Papa Moose, it's not Pat. I don't know if this person would want her identity revealed. If she doesn't mind, I'll identify her in this thread, or she can identify herself. Thanks for playing, Papa Moose. Johnny, tell him what he's won.
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Yay! Let me know if there's interest in future updates.
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