I wish I could figure out Hebrew characters in UBB
I know that [lamed-bet-bet] can be translated either “to make bread (cakes)” or “to capture the heart.” Do you know of any place that takes advantage of that word-play in scripture, folklore or other writings other than II Samuel 13?
I’m in charge of a “bread of the month club” fundraiser for an organization I’m on the steering committee for, and I include a card with some fun facts and history with the bread each month. Since the delivery this month is on Valentines weekend I wanted to include something that plays with the words for “bread” and “heart,” but II Samuel is not exactly an inspiring romantic example.
If I can’t find anything that directly uses the word-play, I guess I’ll just use the passage from Song of Songs that includes lbb and mention the other possible translation.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Let me see what I can find . . . altho, I'm not familiar with it as a verb at all. I'm used to lamed-bet for heart (noun) and variations thereof.
Back in a bit. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Verse in Shmuel II 13, please?
[Edit: nevermind -- 6, yes?]
[ February 11, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Yes. And 8.
Also used in Job 11:12 and Song of Songs 4:9, but translated very differently there.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Ok, in Shmuel it seems to be solely seen as bread and baking -- if there is meant to be a second meaning, I'm not seeing it in the commentaries.
Ok, in Iyov, it's not the same word. It's in a different um, binyan (I forget how to say that in English). Same root; different meaning. Like "bless" and "kneel." Anyway, here it means to pay attention to -- this is an expression. Still exists in modern Hebrew, where it's "lasim lev" -- literally "to give heart," but just means "to pay attention to."
Teachers often scold students: "Simi lev!" -- Pay attention!
Now, Shir haShirim (at least, from what I find here) does seem to use it in more the sense you want. But it's a third binyan (there ARE 7, after all, altho most verbs are used in no more than 4 ) -- again, same root, not same word.
Let me see what else I can find.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Wait - lamed-bet = bread? Any relation to lambas bread? With Legolas as the spokesman?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Weeel, lamed-bet-bet-vav-taf has two pronunciations and two meanings: livivot (cakes) and levavot (hearts). The Shema has the second usage (b'chol livavecha -- with all your hearts) and is speaking of love of God.
What did Tamar cook? As pointed out on that page, in modern Hebrew, livivot is the word for what in Yiddish are called latkes -- pancakes. So not really bread at all -- at least not in the modern usage.
That's all I'm finding. Hope some of it is helpful. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Kate: No.
[ February 11, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The different binyans don’t really matter for the purpose of “fun facts” -- the fact that the words are related in root is interesting in itself.
The fact that lbb is used in II Sam, instead of a more common word for baking, is pointed out in literary criticism. The idea being that Ammon asks her to “bake bread” when what he really wants is the other meaning of the word “to ravish her heart” (or at least her body.) May or may not be significant, but it is the only time that particular word is used for making bread rather than 'aphah or `asah.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
kat, lamed-bet = heart; lamed-bet-bet = cakes (sometimes )
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Thanks rivka. I think I can use the double pronunciation of lamed-bet-bet-vav-taf in the blurb I’m writing.
(Cakes, pancakes, bread, whatever . . . ‘tis close enough to be interesting in a “hey, did you know” kind of way.)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh. *deflated* Tolkein was so clever there for a moment.
Not so much Legolas.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
So, Ammon wants to put a loaf in the oven???
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I've heard women talk about the difference between home-baked bread (especially challah) and commercial -- that it has a special ingredient -- love -- in it. But this is rather putting a different spin on it . . .
Glad to help. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I knew there was a pun I was still missing. I think I’m not going to use that one, though.
Although it does fit in with a song I’m recommending – Anyone familiar with “Bread” by Billy Jonas? There’s more innuendo there than I would have ever guessed you could get into a song ostensibly about baking.
[ February 11, 2004, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Dang, I wish I could remember my Hebrew better. Most of it was obliterated by learning Bulgarian.
At least I know what a binyan is....
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Does anyone remember what the English word for binyan is? I know it's not a common word.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Perhaps "case", although I'm not certain (I've never had the word "case" defined to me well enough that I thought I understood it). Binyan is a verb group who (for the most part) are conjugated the same way and (if I remember correctly) have similar vowel placement.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It's "stem." But it's confusing, since in unofficial English "stem" is sometimes used for what is called "root" in Hebrew. "Binyan" is better.
[ February 11, 2004, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I remember learning a multi-syllable word for it once.
Wish I could remember what it was, Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Okay, "stem" is what it's called in the Yale Language Series Hebrew workbook. If there's another word for it you'll have to ask Jon Boy or Dante or one of the other language freaks.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
And 8.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) -- again, same root, not same word.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
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