A little while ago I used the phrase "animal husbandry" in an email, and since then I've been thinking about the etymology of the word "husband". I did a little digging (not much, I found what I was looking for at the first place I looked), and thought that others might be interested by it. Probably just Jon Boy, and he probably already knew it, but hey!
quote:Word History: The English word husband, even though it is a basic kinship term, is not a native English word. It comes ultimately from the Old Norse word hsbndi, meaning “master of a house,” which was borrowed into Old English as hsbnda. The second element in hsbndi, bndi, means “a man who has land and stock” and comes from the Old Norse verb ba, meaning “to live, dwell, have a household.” The master of the house was usually a spouse as well, of course, and it would seem that the main modern sense of husband arises from this overlap. When the Norsemen settled in Anglo-Saxon England, they would often take Anglo-Saxon women as their wives; it was then natural to refer to the husband using the Norse word for the concept, and to refer to the wife with her Anglo-Saxon (Old English) designation, wf, “woman, wife” (Modern English wife). Interestingly, Old English did have a feminine word related to Old Norse hsbndi that meant “mistress of a house,” namely, hsbonde. Had this word survived into Modern English, it would have sounded identical to husbandsurely leading to ambiguities.
Anybody else have any fun etymology stuff to share?
Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :
I found out yesterday that brainwashing is a literal translation from the Chinese term. I thought it was from Lalo's thread but I can't find it.. maybe there was a link and I haven't look hard enough. Anyway, I originally thought it was a phoneticization of the Chinese term and was thoroughly confused for a while. This is due to the fact that most 'english' words from Chinese are phoneticizations, e.g. gong hay fat choy, ketchup.
Ketchup is also from Chinese, I believe. 'Ke' is the second word in the compound for tomato and 'tchup' means sauce. fun stuff.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Funnily enough, my professor just mentioned the etyomology of husband last Friday, I think.
One of my favorites is the etymology of silly. It comes from the Old English sele, meaning "goodness" or "happiness." The adjective form started off meaning "happy" or "blessed." It quickly took on the meanings of "innocent or harmless," "deserving pity," and "insignificant or trifling." The meaning seems to have stayed there for a few centuries, and then it took on the meaning of "foolish or simple." Interestingly enough, German and Dutch kept the original meaning of "good" or "happy."
esl: That's cool. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't double-checked it up myself.
[ February 25, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Very interesting stuff, both of you. Glad that you confirmed esl's input Jon Boy; I've been meaning to do that since it was posted, but haven't had a chance.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
(nodnod) Etymology is fun. Ke-tsiap is the original transliteration of the word, and it was a fish sauce orignally. Who knew?
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
One of my favorites ever is the fact that "enthusiasm" came from the greek for "filled with god".
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That is a cool one. I also like that "disaster" literally means "bad star" (with all of the astrological implications that that involves).
"Catastrophe" literally being a "down stroke" is a good one too.
Posted by jehovoid (Member # 2014) on :
I posted this in the Word of the Day thread awhile back, but I'm not sure if anybody ever saw it, so I'll say it again.
I learned in a history class that the word "decimate" originally referred to the killing of every tenth man in a mutinous Roman legion, hence "deci" at the root of the word. So when you think about it, the word basically means counting to ten, which is ironic since nowadays counting to ten is a strategy to avoid becoming angry and violent.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Actually, decimate doesn't mean counting to ten; it means taking a tenth of something. Originally, it was exactly synonymous with the word tithe. Actually, I've seen tithe used to mean decimate, as in "the enemy is tithing us." Now I wish I could remember what book that was in.
Posted by jehovoid (Member # 2014) on :
All I'm saying is that when you take a tenth of something, you have to count to the number ten. You walk down a line of soldiers, and every time you get to ten, you kill somebody.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
My mom says she used to see bottles of ketchup where the word ended in t. Like Ketchut? Anyone seen anything like this?
I guess it's the dutch usage of silly in Oh Brother Where Art Thou
"The Soggy Bottom Boys is steeped in old timey lore; Heck, we're just silly with it."
quote: In the 1980's ketchup was declared a vegetable by the government for school lunch menus. Suddenly Del Monte's Catsup, because of its spelling, was not on the approved list. Shortly afterward Del Monte changed the product's name to Del Monte Ketchup. So ketchup it is.
So the USDA has been part of codifying the language. Fascinating.
quote: Heinz trying to play up their spelling and new plastic bottle was ridiculed by English teachers everywhere for their promotion "You don't need to 'ketch' it when it drops!" forcing Heinz to make huge donations to the "Erase Illiteracy in America" program.
Ah, this must be what my mother was thinking of. That she saw Catshup as a kit, and if inserted into this slogan... well, you know.
[ February 26, 2004, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by jehovoid (Member # 2014) on :
I found it funny that "obnoxious" can also mean "servile" or "obedient."
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
This one's especially for Nick:
quote:The regular ME. descendants of OE. wífman, -men, viz. wimman, wimmen (cf. OE. léofman, ME. lemman, LEMAN) continued in use until the 15th century. By c 1200 the rounding of wi- to wu- is clearly established, and is at that time characteristic of western ME. texts. The form womman appears in the late 13th century (first in western texts), and the corresponding pl. wommen in the late 14th. The simplification of mm in womman, -en and wimman, -en, and the consequent conversion of the first syllable into an open syllable gave rise to forms with ō and ē, which, continuing to the early modern period, provided the occasion for punning analyses of wōman and wēmen (see 1k below). From c1400 woman and women became regular spellings for sing. and pl., and have been retained as a properly corresponding pair to man and men; but in the standard speech the pronunciation (wu-) was ultimately appropriated to the sing. and (wi-) to the pl., probably through the associative influence of pairs like foot and feet.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I know the elves taught the Ents to speak, but what do all these word histories have to do with talking trees. I mean Entymol....
oh. Its Etymology.
Um.
Never mind.
Posted by Thunder's Core Smith (Member # 6234) on :
I've always been fond of "nice". I so enjoy telling people how nice they are.
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
Bugs! I want bugs! Why do I thing there should be bugs in here every time I see the title? BRain_Dead_Horse
Posted by The Editor-in-Chief (Member # 5014) on :
Pooka, no one would've been using a foreign or obsolete definition for silly in the 1930s.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Heh. Yeah Thunder's Core, I'm fond of that one myself.
What are you, evil or something?
Posted by PaladinVirtue (Member # 6144) on :
Noemon, this a little off track but I have to ask: If you don't mind me asking, why were you writing about animal husbandry? Just curious as I work in a field that is related and do alot of it myself. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Really PaladinVirtue? That's interesting (and unusual these days)! What do you do?
Although I come from farming families on both sides, I've never really done any farming myself. We had a few cows and some chickens when I was very small, and I had a number of friends whose parents had farms when I was in grade school, but it's been a long time since I've been around a farmyard.
My email was actually about a play by email Dungeons and Dragons game some of us are playing. I was contemplating bringing along a goat on an expedition (as a source of food), and was asking whether any of the other player's characters had any skill in animal husbandry. I doubt we'll take the goat, but you never know.
[ February 27, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Thunder's Core Smith (Member # 6234) on :
only on days that end in y, noemy. Posted by butterfly (Member # 5898) on :
hm, at first when I read the title I thought etymology was the study of bugs.
Posted by PaladinVirtue (Member # 6144) on :
I work in an Animal Research facility at a prominent University. (Please save your boo's and dispairaging (sp?) remarks...We do important medical research, primarily cancer research, and adhere to the strictest animal care policies.) As a veterinary technician I am concerned with animal husbandry issues on a daily basis. Oh, and I say take the goat. They aren't too hard to care for as they eat pretty much anything and are tough little guys. And Lamb is good eating, though I have never eaten a goat, yet. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
How noisy are they though? I'd hate to be hiding from a pack of rabid kobalds or something, and have the goat give us away.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Back to the whole "husband" thing ... isn't it interesting that two words we use today to describe a man's relationship to a woman ("husband" and "chivalry") originally described a man's relaitonship to his horse? Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Now I'm going to have to look up the etymology of "chivalry"
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Yeah, that makes sense. Cheval is horse in French. (laughs)
You know, it's a bit off-topic, but I've realized that guys who profess themselves to be chivalrous always really annoy me. They imply that women can't take care of themselves and are hopelessly useless. I'm not really a feminist, but that really bugs me. Anyone else feel the same way?
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
So, I looked it up, and the study of bugs is entomology. So I guess it's okay if there are no bugs here. Carry on....
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
To take this even further off topic...
Paladin, I see you're located in Virginia. The prominent university you referred to wouldn't happen to be Virginia Tech, would it?
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
quote: You know, it's a bit off-topic, but I've realized that guys who profess themselves to be chivalrous always really annoy me. They imply that women can't take care of themselves and are hopelessly useless. I'm not really a feminist, but that really bugs me. Anyone else feel the same way?
I do sort of... I think it depends on how they go about being chivalrous: if they act as if you can't do anything without their help, that's annoying. But if they just go out of their way to do little things for you, that's sweet.
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
What's your favorite order of insects? Well, that's an easy one! Everyone loves the hymenoptera, don't they? Except for God, that is. God is inordinately fond of Coleoptera. Posted by PaladinVirtue (Member # 6144) on :
Risuena: Nope, I do not work at Vtech, although I am applying to their veterinary school there for this fall. I work in DC but live across the river in Virginia.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
Ahhh... I saw vet tech, university, and Virginia, all of which added up to VT in my head. But that might just be because I'm slightly obsessed with Tech.
Well, thanks to one of my college roommates who's at the vet school, so I know how hard it is to get in, and how hard you have to work once you're in, so good luck!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Oooo, I love etymology! A a gal I knew had an etymological dictionary, and ever since I have really wanted one. Anyone have a recommendation on where to find a good one?
Posted by Wussy Actor (Member # 5937) on :
Somebody told me that gullible is not really a word. Is that really true?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Here's the complete twenty-volume Oxford English Dictionary at 70 percent off. Or there's the compact edition with nine pages' worth of text on each page (magnifying glass included). Merriam-Webster and Oxford also make dictionaries that are strictly limited to word origins. My mom has the M-W one, but I forget the exact title.
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
Wussy Actor, it IS a word, it means brilliant and beautiful. Do people call you that too?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Whoo, Jon Boy, that is pretty expensive! I really wish I could remember the name of the one this gal had. It wasn't huge, but it was a "dictionary" that gave detailed etymological background on words rather than giving their definitions. I think it would cost at most $20
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Maybe something like this?
Posted by Wussy Actor (Member # 5937) on :
Aka, all the time. Wow, brilliant and beautiful. I had no idea I was so freaking cool. Although, I don’t understand why they always laugh if they’re calling me brilliant and beautiful. Or why they don’t trust me with sharp objects. Or why they always insist on talking to someone else when I’m trying to give them directions. Oh, well. Doesn’t matter. I’m brilliant and beautiful! I’M GULLIBLE! I’M GULLIBLE!
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
Because brilliant beautiful people like us need to be spared all that, and they see that, and so they do. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Anybody remember the "Words on Words" segement on Morning Edition (or was it All Things Considered) that John Ciardi used to do, back in the early '80s? I loved those. I was so sad when Ciardi died.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Chivalry comes directly from the French chevalerie, which comes from chevalier (knight).
The original concept of chevalerie didn't have to do with horses, it had to do with horse-men, and described their proper conduct as a vassal. Its connotation as proper conduct towards women comes from later notions of l'amour courtoise, courtly love, which was the peculiar phenomenon of love for a knight towards a (usually married) lady to whom he owed homage. In French, however, chevalerie retains its meaning as a feudal code of conduct towards one's superiors.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
garnet-
Sanskrit root gar, "transport", became in Greek gerôn, "old man" and in Latin granum, "seed". From there came the adjective granatus, "having many grains", and granatum: "pomegranate", which has red seeds. It is by comparison with the fruit that garnet gained its name.
There's lots more on the etymology of names of gemstones here.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Fascinating Annie, absolutely fascinating!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Yes, Jon Boy, that looks a lot more like what I was looking for. The price is right too. Thanks!
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Etymological dictionaries... (drools)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Sanskrit root gar, "transport", became in Greek gerôn, "old man" and in Latin granum, "seed". From there came the adjective granatus, "having many grains", and granatum: "pomegranate", which has red seeds. It is by comparison with the fruit that garnet gained its name.
I was telling C about this last night, when it struck me--"hey, pome, like the french word for apple! I wonder if pome originally just meant fruit or something, and a pomegranate literally means a many seeded fruit". So I looked it up. Yep!
[Middle English pome granate, from Old French pome grenate : pome, apple; see pome + grenate, having many seeds (from Latin grntus, from grnum, grain, seed. See g-no- in Indo-European Roots).]
So, pomegranate=apple with many seeds.
and then, looking up "pome"
[Middle English, from Old French, apple, fruit, from Vulgar Latin *pma, from neuter pl. of Late Latin pmum, from Latin, fruit.]
So, pomegranate actually = fruit with many seeds.
Very cool!
(all etymological stuff in this post courtesy of dictionary.com)
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
eliminate, v.
[f. L. eliminat- ppl. stem of eliminare to thrust out of doors, expel, f. e out of + limen, limin-is, threshold.]
So when your mom tells you to play outside, she's eliminating you.
[ March 04, 2004, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Isn't it interesting that "varlet" and "yeoman" started out meaning basically the same thing, but that "varlet" evolved to have a negative connotation, while "yeoman" evolved to have a positive one?
Well, I thought it was interesting!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
A similar thing happened with "knight" and "knave." They both originally meant "boy," and by extension, "a boy employed as a servant." One word ameliorated while the other pejorated.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Funny how that happens, isn't it? Why one instead of the other? I expect that it's random, but still.
What other terms can you think of that have pejorated (great word, pejorated. When I was composing my last post I was thinking that there ought to be a word that meant that, and lo! there is one!)?
Hussy originally meant "housewife", I know. What else?
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