quote:

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I was just wondering, though, about how you feel about college education and/or how I changed how you felt about it...*curious*

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Kasie, I didn't want to derail your thread, so I thought a new thread for your question might be better.

Okay, I'll have to call on your broadmindedness, because to say how you changed my perception, I'll have to confess what my previous perception was, and it wasn't very complimentary. Which is what I meant by saying I didn't know if I could explain without making it sound like a backhanded compliment.

I used to see you as a smart young girl. That's a genuine compliment, but not too huge, because it's pretty obvious, and I used to think of myself that way when I was that age. I was a decent writer then, too, so I could see a lot of my younger self in your posts. So it probably pushed a few buttons when you posted things that I could *totally* see my 17 year old self writing. From the condescension of my mid-30's self, though, I could see what I saw as fallacies of thought, of immaturity in you, and full of the idea that I might be able to save someone I don't even really know but fearfully identify with the pain I put myself through in my late teens and 20's, I found myself at odds with you far more vociferously than was probably necessary. I'd have to go back and see what things I actually did post, but I know there were a number of things I *didn't* post, even though I drafted them. And there were things I didn't even bother to draft, but had to walk away from, I was so agitated. I built a picture of you that was of a very smart girl, articulate and clever, thoughtful and methodical, yet missing key elements of maturity that I felt could really hurt you for some of the adult decisions you posted that you were making.

I never went to college. I was too afraid when I was that age, and when I got older and was ready to be in school again, I got pregnant. You are clearly not like that. You appear to know what you want and have goals for your future, where at my mid-30's I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. I suspect I'll be 70 when I finally get around to getting my degree. At your age, I could not see the value of higher education, and though some of my vision for that has changed over the years, I can see that it hasn't changed enough. In the meantime, as I watch you grow, really, as the image I have of you changes into quite a mature young woman, one who gracefully respects those opinions she does not share, but can still see the value of, I have greater respect for what I never took advantage of when I had the opportunity. And I can dimly see the young woman I might have been, had I been a little more mature, a little bit smarter, a little more brave.

Celia and AJ have really been great examples to me of what a college education can do for a woman. But Kasie, nothing has changed my view of college and young women as much as you have. I'm not much for ego threads, but I'd really like to thank you for helping me reach an altered state.

(and I'll say that this was actually almost harder to write and post than my first landmark thread) I'd like to dedicate this thread to not only Kasie lovin', but to the altered states we who oppose each other eventually sometimes bring.
 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Ahh, I thought this was going to be a review of the movie...

-Bok
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
I'm totally into giving Kasie all the praise in the world. She's cute, she's witty, she's nice...and gosh darn it, people like her!!

I also admire you Jeni. You have solid opinions and well-grounded morals. I've always appreciated your comments in the debate threads and I appreciate posts like this one when you tell us about a change of viewpoint.

I've had many changes in my perspective because of the discussions at hatrack and I'm really grateful that there's a group of poeple that keep me so constantly on my toes. You're all included in that.
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
Kasie,
I know I really offended you one time, but I do know you are living your life, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I look back on my tweens knowing that I was doing what I could with what I knew. And I know there are folks on hatrack who shake their heads at me far more than I could with you. I'm glad we aren't all thirty-something not as young but not quite wisers like me.

And I was pleasantly surprised (another backhanded complement) by your progressive feminism thread, that you can leave the emotions of one thread in that thread and resume your camouflage as a hatracker. I never knew you were a teenager. Is that a compliment or not? I don't know.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Kasie H

Wow, jenniwren I had no idea you thought that about me. I'm flattered, but there are so many other intelligent college educated women on this board in some ways I don't feel it was right to be singled out.

Celia and I aren't even the only female engineers!

AJ
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Oh, I know you two aren't the only ones with college educations.

Gosh, I'm doing a lot of soul searching today...I am realizing that it may be the reason you two come most prominently to mind is that for a time in HS, I wanted to be an engineer. Honestly, I'd forgotten. I took every engineering class we had in our HS, and loved it, which is some of what lead to the desire. It didn't hurt that I was the only girl in these classes.

I'm surely going to feel bad when you tell me, but I can't think who the other female engineers on Hatrack are.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Well, Anne Kate for one.
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Kasie is very impressive. We've butted heads more than once and will again, I'm sure, but the fact that she holds her own around here, and does so with grace and civility, makes her one of the people I hope to see posting in opposition to me. Because I know that I'll get an honest portrayal of the other point of view from her.

Of course, she's not the only one. For the most part, I can count David and Tom and Bob and bunches of others. But this is a Kasie love thread, so I'm focusing on her.

I don't think there's anyone at hatrack who doubts that the girl has a very, very bright future ahead of her.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Anne Kate is the original Hatrack female engineer. We count on her to design the rocket ship, as well as defend us against asteroids. And provide good sciencey links, along with Noemon.

Hey ... *suspicious
Has anyone ever seen Noemon and Anne Kate in the same room?

And yeah, Kasie is da bomb.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Kasie rocks.

(And she's gorgeous.)

* at self*
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Ha! You're just trying to divert attention from those who have suggested that you and I are the same person!
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
*furtive glances back and forth

Shhhh, we almost stamped that one out ...
 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
Kasie is, indeed, a cool cat. She seems to be able to add a little heat to her posts without managing to offend people, which is great (unless she's trying to offend, in which case she's failing miserably. Sorry, kid).
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I mean...um...I was...I was responding to twinky, not to you. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Whatever are you talking about?

Good lord, is that the time? Listen, I'd better be going!
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 


Yeah, it's not like Noemon and I agree on ... on ... some things, and all. We completely butt heads sometimes over ... some things.

Grrrrr
*head-butts with great enthusiasm

See?
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
::somewhat over-acted headbutting::

::obviously reading off of a cue card::

I just wish we could find some common ground, CT.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
*hands helmets to CT and Noemon

The Rabbit is also a female engineer, though I haven't seen her around much lately.

and a little known fact, that I just found out: dkw went to 3 years of engineering school

AJ
 

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Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
 
I have to agree with Jeniwren. Nobody quite inspires me like Kasie to become a successful young woman.

But no, to make her blush further than you people already have, I'm honestly impressed by K-Dub. She's a damn intelligent (and attractive, whoo diddly) woman who puts out eloquent and insightful writing, even if she's nowhere near vain enough to recognize how far above the average she is -- Washington D.C. doesn't deserve her.

Neither does LA, really, but I wouldn't complain as much if the West Coast were gifted with her.
 

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Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to this post...I wasn't exactly sure what to say.

quote:

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But Kasie, nothing has changed my view of college and young women as much as you have. I'm not much for ego threads, but I'd really like to thank you for helping me reach an altered state.

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jeniwren, thank you. As frustrating as Hatrack can be, it's stuff like this (and, not to sound trite, but people like you) that make it worth it.

Belle and jeniwren (and pooka if this applies to you..*honestly doesn't know*),
I have learned so much from both of you. Please help me remember to have my children thank you someday, because I know listening to you has helped me learn so many different ways to be an great parent. If I am half the mother you two are, I'll have done good. (Belle, this only applies if you convince your daughter to read & love Ender's Game... ).

pooka,

Maybe you hit on my secret way of surviving Hatrack -- I'd forgotten entirely that it was you who posted the particular line I got angry about. You say you once pissed me off....I was honestly surprised when your post reminded me the words I reacted to were yours. Somehow your post was totally separated from how I saw you as a person....I've always really respected and admired you.

twinky,



BtL,

As many times as I got angry at my mother for repeating, in an infuriatingly calm voice, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar," she was right. This thread is proof, apparently, because although I often disagree with many of the people who've posted here, they still like me (and I, despite my inability to find sufficient words, have equal respect and admiration for all of the people who have posted on this thread).

So no, I try not to piss people off. Because after all, I'm trying to convince them that I'm right. And being nice is the best way to do that...

Seriously, though. Hatrack in general and a few people here in particular have really challenged the way I think about the world and the people in it. In a lot of ways and on a lot of issues, I too have reached an "altered state" -- so thank you all.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
*picks self off the floor*

quote:

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Lalo: I have to agree with Jeniwren.

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I'm going to frame this and put it on my bedside table.

Of course it's a bit of a cheat, because he'd be silly not to agree with me on something so evident, but I'll take what I can get.

(((Kasie))) It'll be so cool to see what your daughters are like someday.
 

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