I decided to get a fake cappucino at 7-11 before work. Get said drink. Discover my wallet is not in my purse. o_O
Go over to the counter, explain my predicament. Say I'll leave it and come back since I poured it.
Guy says no, no. Don't worry about it, he'll pay for it.
Me, "You sure? I mean.."
Him, "No, no. It's fine."
Me. "Wow..thanks a lot."
Him. "Where you from?"
Me, gesturing towards the north end. "Manchester."
Him. "No, no. You don't look like you're from here. You look European. You born here?"
Me. "Yeah."
Him. "Were your parents?"
Me. "Fifth generation Irish American is all. Very boring."
Him. "Ah ha. Irish. That's it."
...okay. I give. What's the difference between an "American" and a "European" look?
[ March 08, 2004, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: mackillian ]
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Americans are fat.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
People always think I'm Irish, and I'm Middle Eastern, born in Jerusalem...
Go figure. Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
*points at title* What's a "Europen"?
And Jamie, you do kind of look European. I find the stereotypical European to have a darker, slimmer type of structure and look to them. Americans seem to be slightly lighter skinned and slightly chubbier.
Stereotypically, of course. When you get right down to it, it doesn't really apply at all. It's just how I place it in my mind.
You also have a slight accent.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
If you did have a slight accent, he may have been responding to it subconsciously. Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
I always thought you looked like a coconut. But those are from the pacific, so not really european.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Noah: fixed. Slight accent? And I'm not slim and darker skinned.
Slash: --I--
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
When we're in Europe(we do look very German still) we play "Spot the Tourist". Or really, "Spot the American".
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Manchester IS in Europe. That's where Davy Jones is from.
I think that you look like a very specific nationality, but I don't know which one. Meaning that most Americans look like a combo of everything, but you look kind of untainted.
Anyway, that's it.
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Untainted coconut.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Untainted how?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I have no idea.
Glad I could help.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I don't know if this is true but something about different ways of speaking for different accents and languages changes the bone-structure of the young growing child and therefore there is presumably a slight difference in a look.
Americans also have (in general) better teeth.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Are you saying I have bad teeth!?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
*removes Teshi's foot from mouth*
No, not MY mouth.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Teshi -- that's way interesting, if you can find a link or reference for that I'd love to see it!
And when I've got time, I'll dig up the reference to a book by a dentist/anthropologist who did studies showing how diet affected people's faces and bodies (e.g., folks eating whole-food diets have wider noses, better teeth, and, for women, wider hips)...
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
Europeans look fussier and Americans look more ignorant.
Stereotypically, of course.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I think it's the hair. Europeans understand that short haircuts on women are striking and chic. In general, they are much more cutting-edge fashion-wise. Compare French and Italian and even British Vogue to American Vogue and you'll see the difference.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
So I shouldn't grow my hair out? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
For men, it's definitely the weight. If you're a fat man in Europe and don't have a handlebar moustache, you are assumed by default to be the worst kind of clueless tourist.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
*ponders* I dunno about the lighter-skinned thing...I tend to think that Americans are much more prone to the fake tan look.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Heck no! It is hopelessly, impossibly chichi. So few women can pull it off the way that you do.
Posted by Valkyrie (Member # 5980) on :
You cant just clasifi all of Europe as one place. In britan, my dad is obvioulsy a turist becasue he is so tall. But the same would not be true in the Netherlands. Some of it is teeth. For some reasons Americans put great emphasas on perfict teath. If you dont have good teeth, you are often subconsiensly thought of as dumb and poor. But im most of the world its prity normal.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Define "tall."
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I don't know about the height thing - my husband is 6'5'' and he is very obviously of Eastern European descent. When we went to Iceland, he stuck out like a sore thumb.
On the other hand, no one there ever guessed that I was American. Several people thought I was Norweigan and one couple thought I was Irish.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Good gracious Mack, do you not recognize a pick up line when you hear one?
The man was obviously trying to make small talk, to get to know you better. Take a hint why don't you? Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Hey Mack, here's what my husband said: (he's a man about the world)
"European people aren't necessarily better looking than Americans, I've figured out. They just know how to find the best haircut for a face, and wear it well."
So add that to what Mrs. M. said. We Fantas think your hair is cool.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
OK, here's the link. The book is Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price -- he was a retired dentist back in the 1930s who travelled the world and compared what happened when tribal peoples switched over to a Western diet. I'll give a long excerpt here, but it's VERY interesting and worth a read.
(I haven't read the book myself -- I've only heard of it -- but now that I'm thinking about it again I'm gonna give it a try!)
quote:More than sixty years ago, a Cleveland dentist named Weston A. Price decided to embark on a series of unique investigations that would engage his attention and energies for the next ten years. Possessed of an inquiring mind and a spiritual nature, Price was disturbed by what he found when he looked into the mouths of his patients. Rarely did an examination of an adult client reveal anything but rampant decay, often accompanied by serious problems elsewhere in the body such as arthritis, osteoporosis, diabetes, intestinal complaints and chronic fatigue. (They called it neurasthenia in Price’s day.) But it was the dentition of younger patients that gave him most cause for concern. He observed that crowded, crooked teeth were becoming more and more common, along with what Price called "facial deformities"--overbites, narrowed faces, underdevelopment of the nose, lack of well-defined cheekbones and pinched nostrils. Such children invariably suffered from one or more complaints that sound all too familiar to mothers of the 1990s: frequent infections, allergies, anemia, asthma, poor vision, lack of coordination, fatigue and behavioral problems. Price did not believe that such "physical degeneration" was God’s plan for mankind. He was rather inclined to believe that the creator intended physical perfection for all human beings, and that children should grow up free of ailments.
Price’s bewilderment gave way to a unique idea. He would travel to various isolated parts of the earth where the inhabitants had no contact with "civilization" to study their health and physical development. His investigations took him to isolated Swiss villages and a windswept island off the coast of Scotland. He studied traditional Eskimos, Indian tribes in Canada and the Florida Everglades, Southsea islanders, Aborigines in Australia, Maoris in New Zealand, Peruvian and Amazonian Indians and tribesmen in Africa. These investigations occurred at a time when there still existed remote pockets of humanity untouched by modern inventions; but when one modern invention, the camera, allowed Price to make a permanent record of the people he studied. The photographs Price took, the descriptions of what he found and his startling conclusions are preserved in a book considered a masterpiece by many nutrition researchers who followed in Price’s footsteps: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. Yet this compendium of ancestral wisdom is all but unknown to today’s medical community and modern parents.
Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is the kind of book that changes the way people view the world. No one can look at the handsome photographs of so-called primitive people--faces that are broad, well-formed and noble--without realizing that there is something very wrong with the development of modern children. In every isolated region he visited, Price found tribes or villages where virtually every individual exhibited genuine physical perfection. In such groups, tooth decay was rare and dental crowding and occlusions--the kind of problems that keep American orthodontists in yachts and vacation homes--non existent. Price took photograph after photograph of beautiful smiles, and noted that the natives were invariably cheerful and optimistic. Such people were characterized by "splendid physical development" and an almost complete absence of disease, even those living in physical environments that were extremely harsh.
The fact that "primitives" often exhibited a high degree of physical perfection and beautiful straight white teeth was not unknown to other investigators of the era. The accepted explanation was that these people were "racially pure" and that unfortunate changes in facial structure were due to "race mixing". Price found this theory unacceptable. Very often the groups he studied lived close to racially similar groups that had come in contact with traders or missionaries, and had abandoned their traditional diet for foodstuffs available in the newly established stores--sugar, refined grains, canned foods, pasteurized milk and devitalized fats and oils--what Price called the "displacing foods of modern commerce." In these peoples, he found rampant tooth decay, infectious illness and degenerative conditions. Children born to parents who had adopted the so-called civilized diet had crowded and crooked teeth, narrowed faces, deformities of bone structure and reduced immunity to disease. Price concluded that race had nothing to do with these changes. He noted that physical degeneration occurred in children of native parents who had adopted the white man’s diet; while mixed race children whose parents had consumed traditional foods were born with wide handsome faces and straight teeth.
The diets of the healthy "primitives" Price studied were all very different: In the Swiss village where Price began his investigations, the inhabitants lived on rich dairy products--unpasteurized milk, butter, cream and cheese--dense rye bread, meat occasionally, bone broth soups and the few vegetables they could cultivate during the short summer months. The children never brushed their teeth--in fact their teeth were covered in green slime--but Price found that only about one percent of the teeth had any decay at all. The children went barefoot in frigid streams during weather that forced Dr. Price and his wife to wear heavy wool coats; nevertheless childhood illnesses were virtually nonexistent and there had never been a single case of TB in the village. Hearty Gallic fishermen living off the coast of Scotland consumed no dairy products. Fish formed the mainstay of the diet, along with oats made into porridge and oatcakes. Fishheads stuffed with oats and chopped fish liver was a traditional dish, and one considered very important for children. The Eskimo diet, composed largely of fish, fish roe and marine animals, including seal oil and blubber, allowed Eskimo mothers to produce one sturdy baby after another without suffering any health problems or tooth decay. Well-muscled hunter-gatherers in Canada, the Everglades, the Amazon, Australia and Africa consumed game animals, particularly the parts that civilized folk tend to avoid--organ meats, glands, blood, marrow and particularly the adrenal glands--and a variety of grains, tubers, vegetables and fruits that were available. African cattle-keeping tribes like the Masai consumed no plant foods at all--just meat, blood and milk. Southsea islanders and the Maori of New Zealand ate seafood of every sort--fish, shark, octopus, shellfish, sea worms--along with pork meat and fat, and a variety of plant foods including coconut, manioc and fruit. Whenever these isolated peoples could obtain sea foods they did so--even Indian tribes living high in the Andes. These groups put a high value on fish roe which was available in dried form in the most remote Andean villages. Insects were another common food, in all regions except the Arctic. The foods that allow people of every race and every climate to be healthy are whole natural foods--meat with its fat, organ meats, whole milk products, fish, insects, whole grains, tubers, vegetables and fruit--not newfangled concoctions made with white sugar, refined flour and rancid and chemically altered vegetable oils.
Price took samples of native foods home with him to Cleveland and studied them in his laboratory. He found that these diets contained at least four times the minerals and water soluble vitamins--vitamin C and B complex--as the American diet of his day. Price would undoubtedly find a greater discrepancy in the 1990s due to continual depletion of our soils through industrial farming practices. What’s more, among traditional populations, grains and tubers were prepared in ways that increased vitamin content and made minerals more available--soaking, fermenting, sprouting and sour leavening.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
quote:And when I've got time, I'll dig up the reference to a book by a dentist/anthropologist who did studies showing how diet affected people's faces and bodies (e.g., folks eating whole-food diets have wider noses, better teeth, and, for women, wider hips )...
Ahhhh! Redemption is at hand. Bless you, my child, for sharing that! Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yep... wider hips = easier childbirths, less pain, less deaths...
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Less pain?????
Have you had a baby?
*Wanders off muttering, less pain my bleeding arse . . . *
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
mmm. I have the body structure that's meant for spitting out kids like greased monkeys.
I have my mom's bone structure. She was in labor with me for a grand total of two hours. Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
*Sigh*
Friday early morning to Saturday late morning. No fun, me friend - no fun.
But, oh my - what beautiful results . . .
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Hey, I said LESS pain, not NO pain...
As in, say, less pain than Nicole Kidman probably had...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Shan, I have had kids, and I agree with plaid. Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Nicole adopted her kids. Really, really painless.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Um, plaid, less pain than she had when she adopted her kids?
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
She adopted? Well, that figures. Maybe she realized she wouldn't survive childbirth. Or not without a caesarian scar...
Posted by bonniet (Member # 240) on :
European women wear less make-up and tend to have more no fuss hair styles. Europeans tend to walk more than Americans and so they have a different build even if they aren't skinny.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Oh, BTW, that last post was from me.
My observation is that Europeans tend to be fatter than American models and movie stars but thinner than the average American.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Agree with TheRabbit about body shaping. And that the average American woman in public looks like she's trying to imitate a drag queen, especially at formal/semi-formal functions and work.
[ March 09, 2004, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
<-- looks European
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
All over?
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Not in my dreams she's not.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
How do Americans see someone as being European ? (Besides when looking lost in a big city, there is.) 'Cause it seems a little too vague for me. There are Hyspanic looks, Roman (latin) ones, Nordic ones, Slavic, etc. mack, the guy first mentioned European, THEN Irish - when YOU told him. This can only conclude to one fact (regardless of your looks) -> (as Beren said) IT WAS A PICK UP LINE !
Also, while reading the Landmark Threads I ran into one writen by a LDS back from her mission in Bulgaria (don't remember the name, though). When she came back people thought of her as East European. Now that's a more accurate description ! (though it should have said Slav)
And Kama, do you see a difference between Polish looks and other Slavic looks ?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
:blush:
See. I have horrible guy signal detecting abilities. I think it was from all those years where I never got pick up lines. o_O
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
mack, don't worry. His pick up line wasn't that good either. If he'd have told you: "You look Romanian", now THAT would have been something !
(yeah, I'm biased - and away from home. so sue me ! )
Btw, where can I see a picture of yourself ? (care to post a linkie ?!) Just to see if he was right, you know Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I gotta put my voice in with the PICKUP LINE camp. The guy thought you were cute and wanted to talk with you. He probably thought you'd like the idea of looking exotic.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I think I could usually recognise Russian (and basically former USSR) girls. They look more Eastern than Polish, or, say Czech girls. They dress differently, too.
[ March 09, 2004, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Kama ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Yep... wider hips = easier childbirths, less pain, less deaths...
I submit that when you are in excruciating pain, there comes a point where more pain isn't even noticed. Like, when you're at a point when all you really want to do is DIE, that's pretty much a peaking point.
So, if smaller hipped people have more pain, I don't think it's even noticable beyond what's being experienced.
Brief pain summary of one of my actual childbirths (These were all real thoughts going through my head):
1. Do dee-do. *big grin* I'm in labor? Six centimeters, really? Wow, who'da thunk?
2. Wow, this is getting really uncomfortable. It's getting harder to keep a smile on my face. I need to tell the visitors that I don't think I'll be able to see anyone.
3. Lord, this is really painful. I don't know how I'm going to make it with no drugs but PLEASE be with me and help me through.
(It's at this point where I had basically lost my mind and became an animal.)
5. OHGODOHGODOHGOD(I can't BELIEVE I DIDN'T GET THE DRUGS HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID I WILL NEVER DO THIS WITHOUT DRUGS AGAIN)OHGODOHGODOHGOD DON'T TOUCH ME! OHGODOHGODOHGOD
Of course, I started out with somewhat small hips anyway. (Not anymore though...hehehe.)
By the way, I need to say that I like mack! She is TOTALLY on my list of human beings now.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
yep, definately a pick up line. He paid for your drink, tried to start a conversation about something ambiquous (sp?) -- are you sure he didn't ask for your phone number after that?
Farmgirl
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, Jamie. *thwap* Yes, it was a pick-up line.
Your next action should have been to grin at him and ask him about the last time he was in Europe. Then, you talk about the trip, you get to explain the Irish thing, and then you have to go but he leaves with your phone number.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
This reminds me of mack's legs thread (about the hiking buddy).
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
This thread is another iteration of why Mack and I need females in our family circle. How are you supposed to know stuff like that?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*thwaps Mack* (you deserve every thwap you get on this one dear... a guy paying for something is pretty blatant!)
This reminds me of a time, before Steve and I started dating when he walked up to me and said "Man your eyes are blue" and I laughed at him and told them they hadn't changed color recently and basically that he was an idiot. Three days later it sunk in...
Actually for some reason I find paying for your coffee at 7-11 much cuter and less skeezy than someone paying for your drink at a bar. Now was he the cashier or someone else who randomly happened to be there?
AJ
Incidentally the rumour mill at work had me engaged and getting married soon and I didn't even know it. I told the person that asked that I may live with him but I'm not engaged until you see a ring on my finger. And that the thought of planning a wedding gives me a fit of the vapors so it isn't happening any time in the near future!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote: ... gives me a fit of the vapors ...
My sister!
When I was in kindergarten, I very seriously informed the teacher that my mother hadn't been able to sign the permission slip the night before because she'd had a fit of the vapors.
Good night, do I love the vapors.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
It's only recently that I went back and identified all the pick-up lines guys have used on me.
It's pretty sad that I tended to dismiss them all with terrible insults.
I feel sorry for men out there.
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
"The vapors" sounds like something you have to free base. What is it?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I believe it is a Victorian term that actually derived from ladies wearing their corsets too tight. But I'm trying to google and haven't found anything specific.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/53/v0025300.html 5. vapors Archaic a. Exhalations within a bodily organ, especially the stomach, supposed to affect the mental or physical condition. Used with the. b. A nervous disorder such as depression or hysteria. Used with the.
[ March 09, 2004, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
PSI:
Having recently gone through natural childbirth (about nine months ago) that really split my sides! Thanks for making me laugh today.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Jamie, he was trying to strike up a conversation with you, like almost everybody else has said.
Corwin - that was my landmark thread you had read (I'm surprised anyone even remembers it ) - I think a lot of the reason people thought I looked Eastern European was that my hair was very short (and I had the build of someone who walked everywhere all the time). While I was living in Bulgaria, most Bulgarians thought I was either German or Russian.
[ March 09, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
*thinks the whole narrow hips vs wide hips = more vs. less pain in childbirth very discriminatory of slender hipped petite women*
I have narrow hips. To look at me (particularly before I had babies), you'd think wow, she'll have a tough time. I was a size 1 when I got pregnant with my son. *mutters a little about after-30 lbs* But having him was relatively easy. Minor pain meds, and it never really got that difficult.
By the same token, my dear friend at the time got pregnant soon after I had my son and we all thought "she'll have an easy time of it -- look at those hips", she even used to brag about them, figuring she'd squirt her kids out easy as pie. Instead, her labor and delivery was nightmarish, almost resulting in her death. Emergency surgery and the miracle of the blood bank saved her life. Her husband swore she would not have any more if he had anything to say about it.
(PSI, your description of labor is too funny. )
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I don't have facts to back this up but I heard once that Ballet dancers actually have easier labors due to the flexibility of those muscles. And most ballet dancers aren't particularly wide hipped...
[ March 09, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Um, wide hips on the outer perimeter do not necessarily equal a large pelvis. I have both. (I had many x-rays done in my teens -- mild scoliosis.)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Less pain?????
Have you had a baby?
*Wanders off muttering, less pain my bleeding arse . . . *
Okay, see, there's your problem--wrong orfice.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:When I was in kindergarten, I very seriously informed the teacher that my mother hadn't been able to sign the permission slip the night before because she'd had a fit of the vapors.
Ha! Really? That's so cool; that sounds so much like something I might have come up with! How did the teacher react?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*contemplates educating Noemon about episiotomies*
*resists*
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
As far as episiotomies are concerned, I figure I'm in trouble when I have kids. The only stitches I've ever had (after a mole was removed) , I reacted to. *imagines reacting to stitches after an episiotomy*
[ March 09, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Good point rivka!
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
What you don't want to happen is for the doc to open up a pack of stitches that were apparently defective, as in, they didn't dissolve. That was most uncomfortable.
I hope I never have any type of surgery again, after my last one my abdominal wound didn't close properly, the stitches dissolved but the wound still gaped open. I've always had trouble with stitches, my skin doesn't heal well.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
There are ways to avoid having to have an episiotomy. Pregnant women who are interested in making a no-episiotomy delivery more likely might want to look into perineal massage. Additionally, many OB-GYNs do not do routine episiotomies any more -- it's a good question to ask when you're choosing one.
And even if one is necessary (or if tearing occurs), there are (I believe) alternatives to the usual stitch material -- another good thing to discuss with your doc. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Belle - That definately doesn't sound like fun. My mother had a similar problem after having a lumpectomy a couple years ago. Her body reacted to the stitches, and so the wound wouldn't close (it was open for almost a month ).
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Great. Now I find out that anytime I picked up the tab for someone who forgot to bring (enough) cash to a convenience store / coffee shop / etc -- which I often do cuz 1) it ain't worth the wait for the manager to come over to reset the register, and 2) I'm absent minded enough to have forgotten my wallet on more than a few occasions and hated having to go back home/office only to return to the store/etc -- or commented on someone's unusual (though never displeasing) physical feature*, people assumed I was trying to pick them up.
*I have commented upon seeing eyes so blue that they were well beyond anything I'd encountered before -- as well as upon really really buff legs, style of dress, etc -- and was surprised that the receiver of my observation assumed I was being complimentary.
[ March 09, 2004, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:How did the teacher react?
She gave me a very funny look, and when I got home that day, my mother was still laughing about the phone call. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's a great story. I'd love to have seen the look on her face when you told her that.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
My grandmother is always have "THE" something.
"I'm having the asthma." "I'm having the headache."
As if there's only one, and we pass it around the world or something? Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Isn't that interesting Belle? It's a speech pattern that seems to be dying out; if you read stuff from the 19th century, you'll see usages like that left and right, but the only people who currently use it (other than as an affectation) are elderly.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Less pain?????
Have you had a baby?
*Wanders off muttering, less pain my bleeding arse . . . *
Well there's your problem right there! Next time try the birth canal!!!
OOOPS!!! Sorry...Noemon beat me to it.
Good one Noemon.!!! lol
[ March 09, 2004, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
*contemplates educating Bob about episiotomies*
*resists*
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Gee, Bob.
Good one.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*whispers* Bob, look up a few posts . . .
Noemon, Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*discovers the gist of epistiotimies from this thread, feels horror creeping over her*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I stand corrected.
Mainly because I can't sit down after that!!!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Rivka, from what I have seen, it is controvesial whether perenial massage actually helps or not. I was reading an online discussion between midwives and they all had some very different things to say on the matter. I just don't know.
After experiencing both doctor and midwife, I prefer midwives soooo much over doctors... but that is just my personal preference.
With this last baby, she went ahead and let me rip, which was fine with me. I had had episiotomies twice before, so I ripped right on the line, not to badly either. The worst is the "starburst" tear, eak! Never experienced that, don't want to.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*pat pat* Don't worry, kat. When, in time, you need to interview OBs, just ask to see a sample of their needlework.
Besides, compared to labor, even bad stitch discomfort is minor. And both are well worth the results. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
*feels sick*
*staggers out of thread*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Well, I only heard about perineal massage after my youngest was born -- I didn't know there were mixed views on it. That's good to know.
Two episiotomies, one tear -- episiotomy scars are easier to deal with, in my experience. And residents (my last was delivered by one, as my doc arrived too late) should be required to learn how to make LOOSE stitches! Until kid number three, I didn't know what my mother was talking about regarding stitch pain.
My preference is for a doctor, but a FEMALE one who has had at least one pregnancy. (Of course, then you have the potential complication of her being pregnant -- mine delivered my first a week before SHE had her baby.)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Am I right in thinking that episiotomies can at least occasionally result in permenant incontinence? A friend of mine opted not to have one for that reason a few years back, but I'm not completely sure where she got her information.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
I'm not sure how that could happen, as episiotomies generally go in the other direction.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I know! That's why I'm questioning where she got her info. It just doesn't make sense.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
"Women who had spontaneous births with episiotomy had similar outcomes compared with women without episiotomy. Performing an episiotomy did not prevent vaginal tears."
Third edit: Apparently, rectal incontinence is a possible complication.
I don't know...I've never had an episiotomy, and I had pereneal tearing with both children. I don't plan to have one with this child either, and my doctors agree. It's not that I'm opposed to them, but delivery was so rapid with the first, there wasn't time. I had VERY little discomfort from the stitches...the worst part of it was the shot to numb the area before they sew it up. After that, having to use a small bottle of warm water to clean up after using the bathroom was my only "complication".
[ March 09, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Boon ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
The thing about having wide hips is you are also contributing big bone genes to the baby.
Also, this has to be one of the weirdest turns of a thread I have ever seen.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
It's a pretty typical hatrack thread.
I had episiotomies with my first child and my last child. But not the ones in between.
With my first, it was necessary because the doc needed to use forceps to deliver her FAST. It was one try with the forceps, then down the hall for a c-section because her heart rate went up alarmingly and wouldn't come back down. My doc is my hero, no c-section and he was so skilled that she didn't even have any bruises from the forceps, just a couple of red marks that were gone the next morning.
My second was born with no tearing. The first twin was born with no tearing, the 2nd twin decided to take after her big sister except her heart rate just disappeared. They did get it back again (it was a problem with the monitor) but he had to turn her in order to deliver her. That was exciting, he was doing an external version and the anesthesiologist was pumping me full of drugs preparing for a section. "Are you ready for the c-section Dr.?" "No, let me try to get her turned first..."
"Now, Dr.?" *anxiously*
"No, hang on.....okay, push real hard Adrian."
I was told later that everyone cheered and the nurses were talking about it for days. Apparently delivering twins with one breech is rare enough, most docs automatically section them. Turning a twin that had flipped during the delivery was another almost unheard of thing.
Like I said, he's my hero. He told me he didn't want to send me home to recover from a c-section with two newborns and a two-year old. Instead, the twins and I went home two days later, everyone healthy. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Pooka cracks me up.
Anytime you get a bunch of chicks together conversation WILL eventually turn to periods or childbirth.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
*/continuing derailment of thread*
I was scared out of my mind when I was pregnant with CR, because That Man I Married has an extremely large head, as does my family.
Think about it.
I was certain that The Boy would have a Charlie Brown head. Ow!
Luckily, babies' skulls are not fused, and 'squish'. CR did have a large head, but it was pointy for a little while TMI, right?
*/ends derailment*
mack-- The convenience store man was totally hitting on you. You are lithe and lovely and should accept the compliment with grace. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
You need to be careful. "The vapors" can deteriorate into a "brain cloud" if you don't watch it.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I feel really bad for my mother. Not only had she gotten kidney stones when she was pregnant with me and had to deal with no medication for them, but she in labor with me for 25 hours (I had gotten my chin stuck in her pelvis bones and the doctor had to push me back in and wait for me to turn over), and both my brother and I had nice hard (and round) skulls (no squishy coneheads here).
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, don't think you can rerail this thread *that* easily, jexx!
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
After a hard day's work, the man comes home and is anxious to see his favorite thread, thinking: "Hey, maybe someone put some European looking pictures (of girls, duh !) in there !"
So... I open in, and... "Wow, Madame, I'm glad to announce you that you have twins !" I mean, this in not derailment, this is high-jacking !
[uselessly trying to disarm the high-jackers and put the thread back on its course]
Anna, looking European is being overrated. But as I can't say you look pretty American (don't have a clue about what the last part should mean ?!), I'll say you look pretty, period. [question for mack] Was it or was in not a pick-up line ? You have 5 sec. 4. 3. 2. 1. 0. The answer in the next episode of THE PICK-UP LINES [/question for mack]
ludosti, I don't *remember* your landmark thread, I just went through about half of them on Sunday, so they're all fresh in my head. Btw, have YOU ever re-read it ? I know people probably thought of you as being European because of your short hair (kind of like this guy's ? ), but as you said you really liked it there, some of the Bulgarian attitudes might have gotten imprinted in you...
[/uselessly trying to disarm the high-jackers and put the thread back on its course] Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
And I hope the labor derailment isn't a hint for something. o_O
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
so hard, am now
You ladies are great!
We ought to just have the pregnancy, labor & delivery thread . All you ever needed to know - the collective wisdom of jatraqueros dispensed in humorously accurate fashion!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Where's the fun in that, Shan?
Nah, much more interesting to keep derailing threads (oops, the other one was one of mack's too) with snippets here and there.
And I was hinting nothing, mack. Hatrack threads simply wander in unpredictable directions . . .
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
You're absolutely right, rivka!
*Blows a choo-choo sound through pursed lips and keeps on chugging*
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
*winces*
You guys have managed to really really put me off child birth. There will be less Hatrack babies because of you!
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
quote:...and 'squish'.
What do you mean? Jexx made it sound as easy as squeezing toothpaste. Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
quote: What do you mean? Jexx made it sound as easy as squeezing toothpaste.
*applauds Belle's doctor* That's really amazing!
Epesiotomies scare me, but then again, I'd much rather have one with foreceps delivery than a C-section.
You know, its really amazing what most books DON'T tell you about birth. Its hard to be an informed mother.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I was scared to death of having a c-section with my first kid.
After one labor with no meds, I changed my tune.
I ASKED for a c-section.
With general anesthesia.
She wouldn't give it to me, though. I think that anticipation is just as painful as the pain. I'd rather be knocked out.
Of course, I'm kidding to some degree, I'm actually really squicked out by unnatural medical things...ie IV's, etc. I'd rather do it nature's way. (This coming from a chick that drinks like fifty soda pops a day.)
Unfortunately, I had to make a decision. Either do it nature's way with a midwife, but not be in extremely close proximity to all medical advantages, or get the bleeping IV and feel safer in a hospital.
I picked the hospital, but luckily my doctor ROCKS. No episiotomy, no shots, nothing except saline in an IV drip with the first child. (Of course there is also the pitocin they put in after you have the baby, but I didn't mind that unnatural stuff as long as the baby was out of me.)
And my doctor was so cool with the second baby, and knew I have simple deliveries, that she let me skip the IV in spite of hospital policy. I ended up getting a shot of pitocin because I didn't have the IV drip, but it seems like a fair trade-off to me. IV's are terrible.
OH and one tip for any people who may get IV's.
Request an anesthesiologist (sp?) to do your IV rather than the nurse. In many places, the nurses can't use the same kick-butt painkiller that they give you before the IV, so it hurts TONS more when nurse does it. The anesthesiologist will numb your hand much better with his meds, you won't even feel it.
Long live Dr. Chin and Dr. Wall!
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
The first time anyone complimented my rear, it was in England. I was told that I looked more European than the other American girls I was with. I took it as a compliment.
If you want to talk birth experiences, I'd love to! But I'd rather do it in another thread. I had no drugs, and I didn't go to a hospital. I had an awesome birth experience.
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