I was recently (within the last year) diagnosed with ADHD (ADD and ADHD are the same thing, just different names), and I am trying to figure a few things out. I figure since there is such a mixed bunch here of individuals and families, and most if not all of you usually voice educated opinions, it seems I might get at least some good advice here.
First a few things, I am 24 years old, so I am considered to have "Adult ADD". I have already gone through therapy to discuss what knowing all of this can do to help me realize certain truths about my past, and about how I need to handle my brain in the future, so I am pretty well informed in this area.
However, there are two areas that leave me with a couple of questions, and I will probably have to inquire with my therapist, but I was wondering if someone might have had experience with this before.
The first question is one of medication. If you or someone you know has ADHD, and is medicated for it, I would like to hear what has worked for them, as well as what hasn't worked.
Secondly, I have a hard time explaining to people how or why I do the things I do that are related to ADHD without them giving me the "whatever" look, or making me feel like I am melodramatic. Most people just see it as something that "everyone has a little of" and its not worth worrying about it. The problem with this is that I can tell there is an actual issue, but since it isn't something that is a visual impairment, it is hard for anyone to take it for what it is. I am not asking for symapthy here, but how do I get people to recognize things in order to make work/learning/relationships a more functionable situation?
If anyone here has any advice, or previous experience with situations like this I would appreciate any thoughts you have on it.
At any rate if I can't find a great way to handle this I can always go back and talk to my therapist about this, but since that costs me way to much, I tend to try to do as much personal research as possible, and then as a last resort turn to the pros if I can't figure something out.
Thanks in advance
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
one of the few things I know is that ADD and ADHD are *not* the same thing. ADHD, as I understand it, has additional symptoms. I have heard of good success at treating both by eliminating certain allergens from your diet.
as for people not taking you seriously, you might calmly point out that there is a difference between thinking you have something and actually being *diagnosed*, but mostly I think you just have to let them be ignorant if they choose to be. Ultimately it's neither your problem nor your responsibility to correct their rudeness and lack of empathy.
*edited to correct misleading statement*
[ March 10, 2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: T. Analog Kid ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Chaz-King
I feel for you, because I know that since the ADHD and ADD diagnosis went through a "boon" in recent years, for people who really have this disorder, they will find themselves often scoffed at. Whenever you deal with problems with the brain, people tend to scoff -- because it isn't anything visible you can prove to them. Hang in there.
My middle son, age 16 now, has ADD - other. He is NOT hyperactive -- in fact, if he got any slower he would be at a dead stop. But he lives kind of in a fog all day - dream world. Almost impossible to concentrate. And his older brother scoffs "he could be just fine and normal if he just WANTED to bad enough." <SIGH>
We have not found any medications that work real well with him -- have tried Ritalin and Adderall. The latter worked better than the former. But currently he takes neither.
We did find a lot of correlation, in OUR case, with sleep patterns. He has a very hard time getting to sleep, and a harder time getting up. When he is allowed to sleep as much as he wants (his body schedule) he does much better than trying to conform to our sleep schedule. One day he slept 16 hours straight (I got worried) but following that he was like a totally different kid -- like he was on meds that worked or something. However, that only lasted one day.
There is still much research going on. One PBS special said they have identified six different types of ADD/ADHD by brain MRIs. Each responds to different treatments. So what works for one person might not work for others.
Best of luck to you -- research it as much as you can.
Farmgirl
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
I guess I should have elaborated a bit. First what used to be called ADD is now called ADHD, and basically has three subtypes: ADHD, primarily inattentive; ADHD, primarily hyperactive/impulsive, and ADHD, combined type, with the presence of all three behaviors.
So in essence they are the same, but as you stated there are differences in severity. My diagnoses was in the inattentive sphere of things.
I can see your point also on the second question because as long as it falls outside of the context of work, school, or relationships, it really doesn't matter to me what people think.
I think however my frustration stems from me trying to explain to people at work or friends of mine that I am really not an airhead, I just forget/miss things thanks to my ADHD. I guess it is just tough to expect people to view you as an intelligent individual when you can do all of this great stuff, but you miss crossing your t's and dotting your i's in a few spots. I want to say I can be more vigilant, and always catch these things, but if that were true, I wouldn't have been diagnosed in the first place =P.
I guess I am just trying to find a way to get around that frustration. So I guess it would be better to ask what people who have had this type of experience do to get around situations like this.
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
I don't know if I'd be diagnosed with anything or not, but I can be very absentminded. I go to great lengths at work to set up reminders for myself. As soon as someone asks me to do something, I enter it in my iCal program. It then sets off an alarm 15 minutes before I'm supposed to do it, and puts a window in front of whatever I'm doing to get my attention. Or it emails me if it's a time when I'm not going to be at work. When they give me a pager, I'm also going to have it page me to tell me where I should be. Without all this, I'd never get anything done.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ayelar, are you a youngest child?
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Farmgirl: Thanks for the encouragement. I have a few questions about the medications though. My doctor had me go on Strattera, and it seemed to work fine, but I experienced pretty much every side effect from nausea to heart palpitations, and they only occured at levels of the medicine that actually tended to make a difference =P, so I told my doctor, and he had me back off of it some, but at lower doses it really isn't effective.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on Ritalin and Aderall. My parents are both in the medical field, one is a PA, and the other is a nurse, neither of them want me to take Ritalin because of the stories they have heard, but my therapist says that this is an exageration (mostly due to the media boon you mentioned) and ritalin when handled correctly works fine 95% of the time.
How was your experience with these medications?
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Ayelar: If you really want to know, you can do what I did. I went to the Texas Rehabilitation Commission (I am sure you have one in your state also).
This is a government organization that helps people with disabilities with such things as school and work. I have always had trouble with school, and I want to go back to college, so I figured I should get tested before I go back so I have some ammo to work with for confronting any learning issues. They helped me set up testing, and they paid for it.
If I had come up with no problems, they pretty much would have ended their involvement there. In the cases that you do have a disability, they will help pay for the first sessions of therapy (depending on your income), and they provide you with lots of information.
The problems I have found since then though, is that in order to really find the things you need to know, you have to find someone who specializes in ADHD, or do tons of research, but you never have a definitive answer.
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
where in Texas, man?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I was given a preliminary diagnosis of adult ADD a few years ago. Tried ritalin and except for the fact that it was really good at keeping me awake on long drives, it didn't really "work" for me.
That apparently is diagnostic in and of itself. If one is "truly" ADD or ADHD, the reaction to ritalin is dramatic and in the right direction. Or so I'm told.
I think the symptomology of ADHD is very similar to other things that a person can develop...including just bad habits or laziness. So, it is sort of tricky for a clinician to decide whether their patient needs counseling, medication, or a good swift kick (okay...a gentle prod towards increase productivity).
This is unfortunate because ADD is a real psychological problem. In severe cases, it is a very debilitating disease. Fortunately, it is usually treatable.
If your doctor thinks you have it, see how the meds work. That's my advice. If they work, you have it. If they don't work, maybe you're dealing with something else. Or maybe you're just resistant to the medication (or have a different etiology).
It's a tough one.
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Analog: I live in the Dallas Metroplex Area
Bob: Yeah, that is where a lot of the trouble comes in. I have spent most of my life beating up on myself and telling myself I am just lazy and stupid, although everyone I have worked for has loved what I can do and all of my friends/family/therapist think I am very intelligent. In fact that is the reason why I got tested. I know I am smart, and I know I am not really lazy, however it is tough for me to concentrate on things I like, and even tougher on things I don't like. I felt like I have not accomplished as much as I could given the situations I have been in, and how smart I am.
The real tough thing is that if you are fairly smart, and you grow up with something like this you tend to adapt to it without knowing it. There are plenty of things in my personality now that I had already developed to cope with the symptoms inadvertantly, which made the diagnoses that much tougher on my therapist.
I have read also that some people can develop a sort of pseudo ADD when they are in high stress fast paced environments, like living in a busy city and working 60 hours a week. Situations like this is why a heavy part of the diagnoses lies in the need for symptoms to be present since childhood, and they must also signifigantly impair you in work, school, or relationships to really be considered for diagnoses.
As for meds, like I mentioned before, they do work, but the certain med I was taking only really seemed to work at doses where the side effects were always along side the concentration =P.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Chaz,
Well, our experience with the meds was not great mainly because said son also have stomach/digestive sensitivities, and as you are probably aware -- most of those stimulants have a side effect of possibly not setting well with the stomach. Ritalin was the worse in this way. He actually took Adderall without as much problem in that area (digestive) and it seemed okay for awhile. It did help some, just not as greatly as the teachers had hoped, I guess.
Once I pulled him out of school to homeschool him, we just quit the meds because he said they made him feel like he was in "slow motion" and I had greater flexibility to work around his disability instead of medicating it.
I had always heard that stimulants for ADHD quit working once a child went through puberty and into adulthood, yet you are having luck with meds. So perhaps the thinking toward this has changed some.
I do worry about "self-medications" -- many kids who have this sometimes end up using drugs/booze, etc to feel "normal". My son doesn't seem to do that yet, but he has not yet been tempted by either. I think he would be a chain smoker if he every started cigarettes -- because he seems to have a tic need to always have something in his mouth -- a very nervous habit. But this may not be ADHD related.
I see a lot of it in his dad (who is 53) who hasn't been able to hold a job for longer than one year in his entire life. And has chain smoking and other addictive habits. I'm just trying to keep my son steered from following the same path, and it is hard to tell how much is ADHD and how much is other problems. Brain chemistry is such an unexplored science.
Farmgirl
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Whew I am keeping busy on this thread
Farmgirl,
As far as I know from the questions I have asked and what I have read, the stimulants still work after puberty and such, but more than likely the problems people see is that they need to change the dosage due to the changes of their internal chemistry.
Your childs father (your husband?) might actually have ADHD, it is reported that if one person in a family has ADHD, there is a 25% that another blood related family member has it also. It can really be tough as an adult expecially if you are not aware of it. It makes things like emotions much tougher to control and like I said before it can misrepresent your capabilities, because you do tend to make small mistakes a lot if you don't go over things like 8 times (and if you have ADHD you only remember to do this half the time ) .
EDIT: I also meant to mention that you are right, that this is a fairly new field of study, so you do have to take some of the reports with a grain of salt. Which makes it that much tougher to pull out what you think really applies.
[ March 10, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Chaz_King ]
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
PSI: No, I'm the oldest of two, and fit pretty well into the "oldest child" stereotype, I think.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ah okay. That's cool! Do you procrastinate a lot then?
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
I was voted "biggest slacker" in high school. I was also the only one in my class to go to an Ivy League college, though. Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
LoL That is funny ayelar because I once had an electrical engineering teacher who explained that used to love to say how lazy engineers, programs, and math majors are, because we are always trying to find the simplest solutions or trying to make something to find the solution for us .
Oh, and Analog, I live in Farmers Branch, right around Midway and 635, I see from your profile you live in Plano Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Did you also get an ulcer while you were there?
I'm really fascinated with birth order.
At first I thought that the fact you couldn't remember to do anything indicated a youngest child. But right after I posted, I realized that that was stupid, because the youngest child wouldn't have gone to all those extreme measures to fix it. And that it probably pointed more to procrastination than anything.
I've noticed that oldests and onlies tend to procrastinate to the extreme, because they feel like they have so much to do, it isn't even worth tackling ANY of it.
I'd be willing to bet that there is a higher percentage of firsts and onlies on this board than the other birth orders compared with the national percentage.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:I do worry about "self-medications" -- many kids who have this sometimes end up using drugs/booze, etc to feel "normal". My son doesn't seem to do that yet, but he has not yet been tempted by either. I think he would be a chain smoker if he every started cigarettes -- because he seems to have a tic need to always have something in his mouth -- a very nervous habit. But this may not be ADHD related.
This is a significant concern, I think.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I think it is even tougher when, like you, the person is GIFTED and ADHD. Because they use the primary (gifted) to sometimes conceal the secondary, then teachers write it all off to laziness.
My oldest son was very gifted (I won't get into scores), but was also the very driven type A personality. So he soared through school.
Son #2 (the ADHD one) struggled through school. When they finally took him for testing to check for LD's, they found his IQ was nearly as high as his brothers. This absolutely shocked some people at school ("you mean the kid that can't even remember which desk is his in the morning? and won't do any work?") Luckily, some teachers DID realize he was very bright and built on that, but others cut him down because in their mind everything is performance related (written output especially).
So a person who has trouble focusing, concentrating and keeping on task is looked at, by and large, as less intelligent. Or, if it is apparent verbally that you are intelligent and have a lot of knowledge, yet your output doesn't match that, you are seen as simply lazy.
If you were to meet my son (he does has a few minor problems other than ADHD) you might even think at first he was retarded. Just because he walks slow, talks slow, is very reticient, and has a hard time with focusing on some simple tasks. Yet in reality, when you get to know him, you can get into a discussion about theories of black holes, and it blows the top of your head off.
Farmgirl
Posted by gwan (Member # 6194) on :
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was in grade three. As far as I'm concerned, it seems to be an excuse... I took mediction for three years, and quite frankly I feel a whole lot better without it. I think that it is something that you have to learn to control for yourself. Don't use it as an excuse to, "why you do, the things you do." If you just learn to control it without drugs you'll be fine. I found that the drugs made it hard for me to concentrate, and being a kid at the time, I felt like everyone wanted me to be a different person. Because that is exactly what the drugs made me, a different person. I think that especially in younger children, medication can be scaring to a childs self image.
It just always fills me with murderous rage to see people sticking thier kids on ritalin. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Sometimes I worry about the wrong kids getting stuck on ritalin, just because so many boys in my family are spacy, and off in their own worlds all the time, and a bit uncontrollable. If someone thought that one of them had ADHD and gave them ritalin, it might change that and then they wouldn't be the special kids that I know.
I can name two guys my age who could have easily been diagnosed with ADHD as kids. I'm glad ritalin wasn't around then because they were awesome just the way they were.
Edit for sintacks and speeling.
[ March 10, 2004, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I have two brothers who were each on Ritalin for several years, PSI. It really doesn't cause any personality changes -- it just meant they had the ability to sit STILL and focus on a task.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
But they were more interesting when they never sat still. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hmm. Not to themselves, definitely. And not to others either -- how can you have a conversation with someone who can't stay on one topic?
I mean, other than on Hatrack. Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
I had a lot of the same concerns when medication was first mentioned. I worried about how it would effect my creativity, or if I wouldn't be as crazy and happy go lucky as I am.
However, the true effect it has is more of an ability to focus on tasks, and think through things easier, which in some cases actually helps the creative process =), and I think I will always be a crazy happy go lucky guy.
Of course I had the same concerns as Gwan had also. If I have to take a medication fit in, then am I really being true to myself. This is scary for kids, and I can see how it can be damaging, especially without good explanation. The reason I never got tested as a child was because my parents felt it would hurt my self-confidence more than it already was, and they never took the time to explain that a mental problem like this doesn't mean you are stupid.
You wouldn't expect a one legged man to not use a prosthetic leg just because he isn't accepting his role if he does, and I don't expect myself to function with my brain sending sub-par signals if I can help it. My brain doesn't work the right way, so I figure if the medication works correctly (stronger focus and such) then that is the way I would be if I hadn't been born with some odd chemical issue in my head.
However, like you said, if that medication makes me feel worse, or just not right, then I wouldn't continue to take it.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
No rivka, I mean, I don't think they had ADHD which is my point.
But maybe they did...it doesn't matter, because they grew up so well without meds, it shows that they didn't need them.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Kids who don't have ADD/ADHD who take Ritalin don't generally find it useful -- which is why prescribing Ritalin can be used diagnostically.
As for "it doesn't matter, because they grew up so well without meds, it shows that they didn't need them," I find that an unconvincing argument. People manage to thrive in spite of all kinds of issues or disabilities. Does that mean we shouldn't do our best to alleviate them?
My brothers (when they were teenagers) ON Ritalin were the same people as they were off; except more able to focus, and more able to control THEMSELVES.
Ritalin is not a "cure" -- it's a tool. And of course, it's not the best tool, or even a good tool, for everyone with ADD/ADHD or similar issues.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I was diagnosed about six months ago with Adult ADD. I was put on Adderall diagnostically, and it worked, immediately. When I told my doc that I noticed an immediate difference, she said that pretty much sealed the deal. If my brain reacts positively to Adderall, then they consider me ADD.
It works very well, and I am learning behavioral techniques to assist my coping with it. I have to make myself lists, I have to limit my tasks, I used to try and do way too much. I have to notice when I'm hyper-focusing on something too much.
I've still got a long way to go, but I can say things are much better now that I know about ADD, I'm being medicated and I'm getting therapy for it. I recommend going to your local library and loading up on books about adult ADD and doing some reading. Even if you don't learn anything new, don't underestimate the therapeutic value of reading the experiences of others and learning that you aren't the only one.
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Belle: One of the hardest things for me right now is to break out of my routine and actually plan ahead. I have spent so much of my life so far just flying by the seat of my pants, that it is very tough for me to get super organized.
I have even made plans with my wife to setup bulletin boards and such, but we always get distracted with work and other stuff =P.
As far as reading goes, would you have an book suggestions, perhaps specifically on interacting with people or just oranizing at work so I don't have to even worry about ADHD getting in the way?
Posted by Jill (Member # 3376) on :
I was diagnosed with ADD 10 years ago, in the second grade. My mom fought for years to get me diagnosed-- no one would believe I had it because I'm a girl and not hyperactive, just inattentive and impulsive. After I was diagnosed, I went on Ritalin, and the change was remarkable. Before that, I had never quite understood how to read. I was very slow and it never seemed to "click." In third grade I went from the lowest-level reading group to the highest in three months. Everything else seemed to "click," too. Ritalin did have some side effects-- I was underweight for many years, and had to take a sleeping pill at night. It's much harder now that I'm a teenager. With all the hormone and chemical changes going on in my body, it's hard to find a medication that works. Apparently this is typical for most teenagers. Ritalin stopped working as well for me (and I had to go on much higher dosages), so I tried Concerta, then Wellbutrin, then Adderall, then various different types of Ritalin, like Methalyn and Metadate (whatever the doctor says, those are NOT the same thing), then plain Ritalin, then Strattera, which I'm on right now. So far Ritalin has worked the best for me, but last year when I was on it I lost ten pounds, and I'm skinny to start with. I also kept having to increase the dose when my body got used to it. My doctor says that my brain should start to settle down in college, so hopefully then I'll find a medication that works (and continues to work). I have gotten much better at controlling it on my own, though.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Belle said: "It works very well, and I am learning behavioral techniques to assist my coping with it. I have to make myself lists, I have to limit my tasks, I used to try and do way too much. I have to notice when I'm hyper-focusing on something too much. "
Belle, A friend of mine was recently diagnosed with adult ADD, and takes meds, which have helped her a ton. She was into a bunch of different things, sort of the jack of all trades bit. Now, she focuses, and gets more done.
A strange side effect that no one mentioned to her is the strain on her marriage. Because her behavior is significanly dfferent, her husband is having a hard time dealing with it, even though it is, supposedly, better for her to be this way.
Have you noticed a difference in relationships?
Liz
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I was diagnosed as ADHD at 4 and was on Ritalin until I was 11..I actually weaned myself off it and THEN told my mom I'd been flushing it....I do get a bit scatterbrained butI would not be comfortable taking psychopharms unless they were absolutely neccesary to function. I am quite sure Olivia (5) be diagnosed too, which is just another reason to homeschool to me.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
My best friend has ADHD and he acts just like every one else, but I think that has a lot to do with his medication. Oh and by the way, how many kids with ADHD does it take to screw in a light bulb........Want to go ride bikes?
Ok, that may have been inappropriate, but I couldn't resist
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Elizabeth,
That seems kind of odd, just because of my own relationship issues that have come up. When I was on meds, my wife was always asking me if I was okay because she was worried I was spaced out or something when in fact I was just focusing on the task at hand, and she wasn't used to me just sitting when doing something .
I also tend to do crazy stuff less, i have been know to do things like put the ice cream back in the fridge instead of the freezer, I will put a dish somewhere, and leave it there for hours because I got distracted on the way to the kitchen... I tend to do these things a lot less when I was on the meds, but the side effects were worse than just dealing with the problems.
I remember when I explained this to my wife, she actually said, "I always wondered why you did stuff like that, like you were just oblilvious to it". So explaining these things, and communication has actually helped our relationship more, and now when she reminds me to do something, I don't see it as nagging, because she is just doing it because she knows I am going to forget, and she doesn't think I am trying to shirk responsibility, she just knows it will slip my mind.
I am thinking I might ask my therapist about a different set of meds though, because I would rather not do those type of things at all =).
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
rivka, I'm not saying your brothers shouldn't be medicated. All I'm saying is that I'm glad my husband wasn't.
Posted by TimeTim (Member # 2768) on :
I've never been diagnosed or taken any types of medication but I have suspected for quite a while that I have ADD or ADHD. The funny thing is that my memory is very good. I forget very little and I don't take many notes. Merely seeing and hearing something is usually enough to cement it in my brain. On the other hand, I have great difficulty focusing on one thing long enough to make any real progress. I sort of want to try some meds just to see how they would affect me.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Chaz,
That is what I mean, the effect of the behavioral change on others. Her husband had a hard time dealing with the change, even though it was for the better, whereas your wife was able to understand things.
Some parents of kids I have worked with don't like their kids on meds, because they seem so different, like they are not the same child.
Liz
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Okay, I'm biased. I figured I'd say that up front.
I work in mental health. Not medicating a psychological illness is poor practice. Medications alleviate symptoms that significantly impair daily functioning. Using both medications to alleviate those symptoms and talk therapy to begin cognitive restructuring and behavioral plans, things start to come together.
Therapy or psychopharmacology alone to produce results--but the greatest results are gained with both at the same time.
There are a lot of common myths about ADHD, especially around medications. Particularly that they can cause drug addiction. Actually, properly medicating ADHD leads to a LESSER chance of drug addiction because they don't feel the compulsion to "self medicate" by abusing drugs.
But my bias really occurs from my own case history. For a over a year, my doctors struggled with medicating what they thought was Bipolar II Disorder. They had successfully knocked out the depression by using Lamictal, but I still had problems with what appeared to by hypomania. We used I think nearly every single medication in the book for it, ranging from atypical antipsychotics to lithium to the antiseizure medications. Nothing worked.
We looked at my family history. My father, sister, grandmother and several cousins have ADHD. Behavioral indicators in my daily functioning (or misfunctioning as it were. I'd been in and out of the hospital six times in the past year for dangerous impulsivity). We did a test for ADHD and it was overwhelmingly positive. But still weren't sure.
Finally, my psychiatrist ended up admitting me again because of dangerously impulsive acts. As a shot in the dark, we tried Ritalin.
Dammit, it was a magic pill for me.
The nurses who had seen me six times said they'd never seen me this relaxed. My psychiatrist and psychologist said the same thing.
Work said it. My classmates in my MSW program said it. My professors noted it.
And I noted it. I never knew that it was like to TRULY be relaxed. To be able to focus. To be able to NOT feel hurried and rushed and impatient all the time.
ADHD is a valid psychological disorder that deserves the researched treatment of any other psychological disorder. A thing to remember about ANY of those disorders is that illness is NOT a choice.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
mack, I love you. And not just because you have the sexycat hairdo.
I am ignorant about ADD/ADHD, but I'm learning. Mostly, I get my information about it on Hatrack. I increase my learning potential while feeding my addiction (HatCrack, for you newbies ).
Thank you mack, and thank you, Hatrack!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
jexx is one of those people who has witnessed the change in my ability to function. Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Off Topic: So I was trying to go to sleep last night, and I had another ADD night as like to refer to them. I was tired and was laying in bed trying to get to sleep but my mind just kept going and going and going about work, my hobbies, why people act the way they do, should I get back into religion, etc etc...
Long Story short, I didn't get to sleep until about 2 am =P and boy am I feeling it today .
As for Mack, I am glad to hear you found something that works well. Now did you have Bi-polar in conjunction with ADHD, or was it just the impulsiveness and the lack of control over emotions that that ADHD brings with it that might have confused them?
I know for a fact looking back that there have been tons of times when I have gotten angry for what looks and feels like no aparent reason. When I was first married, and I was workin gon something and my wife interupted me, I would get that really anoyed feeling in my gut and I would want to just go off (I had learned a long time ago to control this), but I didn't understand why it happened until I did some more research on ADD, and found how many of the people with it have that same problem with controling impulsive emotions.
Either way, I am glad you are doing well Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Chaz, did you find a way to make your mind stop, or did you just get so tired that you couldn't think anymore? Because I have ocd, and I get stuck in thoughts a lot, especially when I'm trying to get to sleep, but the only way I've found to control it is to think the same phrase/sentence over and over again.
Posted by BattleSchooler06 (Member # 6279) on :
when i was in second grade...(im in 8th now) i was tested for ADD....i knew i didntr have it but what suprised me was how close i am to HAVING it....all the tests show that i am bright (dont want to brag) but im lazy....and someitmes i feel that i CANT stay on one subject...so my parents had me tested....i finished the test about an hour and a half early..so they immediatly knew that i didnt have it but i was very close to having it....i have friends that have ADD and ADHD....one of them takes ritalin...and he seems to be fine...i never notice anything in him...i dont know what the other one takes but he is fine too....not hyper active or anything....
edit : im at scool right now i wont be home till 3:30 so i wont be able to reply to anything almost period change
[ March 11, 2004, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: BattleSchooler06 ]
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
pH usually I have to get up and I play on my computer until I can't think straight. I have tried the textbook reading approach, but then my mind just wanders
The reason why I play on the computer, is because it keeps me focused on one thing, and it stimulates my mind enough to wear me out (I am usually playing some kind of game that requires some sort of strategy).
I usually do this anyway, but on days when I decide to sit around and watch TV with my wife, my mind is still usually going a mile a minute when I go to bed, because watching TV doesn't really require me to exert much mental energy.
I don't really know if this would work with OCD though, just because of the nature of OCD Posted by BattleSchooler06 (Member # 6279) on :
chaz...if u can stay focused on the comp....im guessing u can stay on topic when u read a book....why cant u do it with other things?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Sometimes I have to sleep with the tv on...I guess the background noise kind of distracts my brain so I don't focus on what so-and-so said at dinner or things that go bump in the night in the dorm.
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Actually Battle, the only time I can read a book is when I am on vacation at someones house, in a hotel room, or in a car.
Like I said, TV is horrible for me I can't sit and watch it for mor than an hour usually, so it doesn't distract me, but if I am trying to read a book where I can do other things like getting on my computer or playing other games (card games and such), I can't realy focus on the book unless it is a pretty fast paced book.
The reason I can focus on the computer is because I play first person shooters online. The rounds are about 5 minutes each, but usually faster. It has contiuously changing situations, and it it encourages me to change my thoughts about as rapidly as I normally do .
Not to mention the adrenalin(sp?) factor, people with ADD can't pay attention to a lot of things, but they tend to be drawn to hobbies that put them into exciting situations. They think this is due to the fact that the stimulation in the brain is higher in these situations, and the ADD brain tends to function at normal levels of concentration... also people with ADD tend to have peaks and valleys in concentration when it comes to things that REALLY interest them. If you check out some of the articles on the web a ton of them will mention how ADD people tend to "hyper-focus" on certain things, which can throw off outside observers who are watching for signs of ADD. This hyper focus also tends to lead to burn out though, which is why you see people with ADD get REALLY interested in a project, and then drop it at like 75%
EDIT: I really should finish sentences.
[ March 11, 2004, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Chaz_King ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I know a guy that has serious ADHD and that boy can play video games for hours and hours.
I can't explain it, can you?
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
With that being said, there tend to be a few views on this... I mentioned before how it stimulates a persons mind, and requires constant reactions so it helps keep my focus on the game, but at the same time, it becomes a kind of retreat.
I have at times decided I should stop playing video games all together, because they take up so much of my time and I tend to have a need to play them in order to just chill out at home.
People with ADD tend to have an addictive nature when it comes to anything that can stimulate their mind enough to get it to calm down, this can come in the form of video games, sky diving, paintball, or as FarmGirl mentioned before self-medication through things such as alcohol, or drugs.
So while I like to play video games a lot, I try to make sure I don't do it so much that I drop everything else.
Of course there are also times when I try to sit at my computer, but there is nothing new or different going on in the games, and I get really restless... this is when my wife gives a loud sigh as I head out the door on my way to Best Buy or CompUSA to see if I can find some sort of entertainment
Edit: broke my URL link
[ March 11, 2004, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Chaz_King ]
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
pH now that I think about it, I did used to listen to music a lot when I was younger when I was trying to go to sleep, and I didn't have nearly as many problems sleeping then as I do now. The difference now is that I can't do that because my wife can't fall asleep if there is any noise at all, so I usually have to be pretty worn out mentally before I go to bed otherwise it will take me a good hour or so to fall asleep.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
It's a fallacy that ADDers can't stay focused on anything. In fact, no one focuses better than an ADDer.
I ruled out ADD for myself when I considered that I read constantly, and have no trouble finishing a book.
That's actually pretty common, whether it be computers, books, video games, whatever - most adults with ADD have found something they can hyper-focus on and use it to calm their minds.
The problem comes when that habit is itself destructive, like spending so much time on the computer that your housework doesn't get done, as in my case. My several month hiatus from hatrack helped in that regard, I broke the addictive habit of sitting on computer forums all day and night. NOw, I keep it to a reasonable amount. (mostly )
Speaking of...I feel some housework calling me.
Later.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Chaz
have you tried going to sleep with using headphones with your CD player? (to not bother your SO). Work pretty good in our house.
Farmgirl
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Belle is right about hyper-focusing in ADHD.
And Chaz, the impulsitivity and such that they had thought was hypomania was actually the ADHD symptoms. So I'm not bipolar, but I do have ADHD co-morbid with atypical depression.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Mack, I am SO happy for you!!! Not that you have ADHD, but that you know what it is that was making you so miserable. The last time I was around, you were having such a hard time.
The offer of the Holyoke Range is still, and always, open. I can drop you off and pick you up wherever you want. Then (see Exercise thread) I will watch someone else exercise on tv while you are run-hiking.
Liz
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*snort* Posted by Psycho Triad (Member # 3331) on :
ADD is not a disability. ADD is not a crutch. ADD is not an excuse for being late, for needing extra help, or whatever. ADD is just a personality trait.
Dont just jump at my throat. I was diagnosed to the full extent of the tests at the time as a poster child for ADD. I was hyper, i couldn't sit still, and i couldn't concentrate on a single task for very long. In came the Drug. The Drug was pretty helpful, it helped me keep on task a little more than normal, but it gave me something else: it gave me a label and a skapegoat. "Why is Ken so weird?" "Oh he has ADD" No one tried to see past those three little letters that had been tacked onto my name. I was Ken Fales, A.D.D. Lucky me. I started doing better in school, and at home; i could keep on a single task for as long as I wanted to put my mind to it. I could sit (relatively) still when needed, and was pretty much a "Great Student!". Every so many months at the doctor I'd be asked 'Do you think the Ritalin helps?' and of course I answered yes. That's the answer looked for, wasn't it? Isn't that what school is all about? Giving the answer thats being looked for? Isn't that the reason I'm doing well in school? About halfway through highschool I decided to try not taking Ritalin. Actually, I just decided I didn't want to be drugged anymore. Doesn't make sense, but most decisions in highschool don't. And wowie! The next day I still did good in school. The next day? The ame. Next week? Hmm.. this is interesting. I had learned, Personally, how to deal with who I am. Admittedly, the medication helped, especially in the beginning. but it wasn't everything. Medication, or diet, or whatever the new trend is not an answer, or a solution. For it to be an answer, what was the question? how can i be normal? You can't be normal. You are you. Learn to like it, because short of Vulcan mind-meld, you're stuck. Is it a solution then... that must mean there was a problem. Is there a problem being You, the person You were born as? I don't see why. Instead of looking for a solution (or whatever the magic term is) you need to start thinking about yourself. Who are You, and what can You do to make Yourself a better person. Learn to deal with the fidgets, to cope with distraction. Cooping skills (also refered to as: learning to deal with life) is hard. I know it is. Sometimes you try as hard as you can, and you still fall short of expectations. Thats when things like medication can be helpful. Ritalin, for me as a child, helped take the edge off the struggle to keep myself 'in line'. Now, I'll be the first to tell you that I am a very hyper person. I bounce alot, I fidget. Hi, thats me, not a diagnosis. Hyper is a good thing; it keeps me happy and can be helpful for sports (i fence. Fear my hyper bouncing attacks! )
... wow quite a rant for me. Sorry if i've bludgeoned anyone's ideas, or contradicted and what not. I just feel that people who use ADD as a label have it all wrong. Remember:
quote: Its not a disorder. Its a personality trait.
This last year i went back and tried medication again. Went on Adderall for about 4 weeks. I saw no change, my family saw no change, my friends saw no change. So I stopped. I have trouble remembering to do things; my palm pilot is a god send for remembering dates and times and assignments and errands. Make it beep, and its an extra section of brain helping me say "oh! do this". Do you find yourself often disorganized? Others use dayplanners, Post-it's, emails, etc. Find something that works for you.
WELL! Enough endless babble. I get like this on certain topics. My apologies. Returning to my normal self of hyper and happy. Heading to bed now.. tired . This has been a public service... errrr.. a rant from the mind of Ken. Nothing to see here, folks; keep moving. Posted by Psycho Triad (Member # 3331) on :
And to address the "play video games for hours but not sit still in school"
Hyper-focusing. Often children diagnosed with ADD do either one of two things during an activity: 1) spacy, not on task, wandering mind. 2) intent, focused, mind not thinking anything but the task.
I can sit at a TV or computer monitor and play video games for hours upon hours. I can sit down with a book, wordy books such as those in LOTR, and read the entire book in mostly one sitting. Could i stop reading or playing video games? Sure! now.. do i want to... nah.
ooh thats right! sleep!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Ken...
Posted by Jill (Member # 3376) on :
About the hyper-focusing... when I was little, I would read book for hours on end, not doing anything else, even eating. I couldn't even hear much going around me (Mom would actually have to physically touch me before I would look up from a book). I can also do that on the Internet (like Belle). That's more normal though.
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Ken
I agree with most of what you are saying... even if your approach is a little rough. Addressing things first by saying:
quote: ADD is not a disability. ADD is not a crutch. ADD is not an excuse for being late, for needing extra help, or whatever. ADD is just a personality trait.
tends to make it look like you are pointing a finger at people and treating them like children, although I don't believe this was your intention.
While I do agree with some of what you said, I disagree with you that ADHD is not a disability, especially when you run across severe cases like Mack's.
And you have to remember, that you did change your actions to become more "normal", you took the meds and you learned how to cope. At some level whether you or your parents decided to, someone recognized a deficiency in your behavior and helped you overcome it.
I guess I am just trying to say your post confuses me, because you tend to deny that ADHD is a problem, but at the same time you explain how your life is better once you "dealt" with it...
I am however very glad that were strong enough to deal with your issues, and I hope I can acheive results like yours.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
Is this a common thing?
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Most studies show about 4-6% of the the population of the US has ADHD.
And about half of the people diagnosed as a child still have trouble with it as an adult. (the other half usually has coping strategies and meds to help them later on in life, so they show less symptoms)
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
The odd thing about ADHD to me is that we spend years squelching movement and off-taskedness in children, then we expect our adults to have a job, raise kids, teach Sunday school, make healthy meals, etc in a very frenetic pattern.
I work with kids who are diagnosed with ADD and/or ADHD. Some of them are classic cases, and are helped by medication or the structure and high interest level of our classroom. Others are clearly NOT ADD. Sometimes, they have a severe learning disability, or are depressed.(depression in kids can somethimes "look like" ADHD)
So, I have always had questions about how much our society creates(or rather, exacerbates) ADHD symptoms in the public school setting.
Also, the US and Australia have the highest number of folks with ADHD. Is this because we recognize it as a disorder, or is it because the US and Australia were colonized by adventurous people?
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:About the hyper-focusing... when I was little, I would read book for hours on end, not doing anything else, even eating. I couldn't even hear much going around me (Mom would actually have to physically touch me before I would look up from a book).
I am like this also - when I am reading, I don't hear anything. It really annoys my husband when he is trying to talk to me while I am reading, even though he knows I don't hear him when I am reading. A psychologist once told me it has to do with the way my brain is, and he told my husband I can't help it that I don't hear when I'm reading. But I don't have ADD or ADHD or anything like that.
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Check out a little tool I made myself for when I am at work...
It will pop up the window every 15 minutes to ask me what I have been working on, to make sure I don't get off task for too long on one thing (like hatrack )
I am thinking of adding in a wav file of my boss saying "WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON?!?!?!" everytime the window pops up
EDIT: I still need to fix the time display to add in extra zeros on the minute field
[ March 16, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Chaz_King ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Ken, I agree with you completely.
quote:Often children diagnosed with ADD do either one of two things during an activity: 1) spacy, not on task, wandering mind. 2) intent, focused, mind not thinking anything but the task.
That's exactly me. This happened to both me and my brother, and my dad used to call it BDO [noun]. "Brain dead on books/computer/television." We also did miserably in school, but things worked out anyway. I kind of wish I had known all this when I was a kid, but it was okay.
My boss at work has come to recognize it, and that's how I get away with a lot. I actually slightly dissaprove of how much license being labeled as "creative" can get me.
I was in a meeting with him and some of the other higher-ups a few days ago, and was doodling madly on a notepad while someone was talking. Of course it wasn't related to the topic, so I had it sort of hidden. One of the higher-ups asked what I was doing, and my boss said, "She's multi-tasking, but she's hearing every word."
At work, I'm almost always surfing on Hatrack, listening to music, drawing in Photoshop, and doing my work all at the same time, and it's not an issue because everything gets done that needs to be done. I really like that about my job.
[ March 16, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I hyper focus and multi task too.
A friend was asking me recently, "How do you do it all?" We both have three kids, I also have a part time job ( as director of my church nursery) and do crafting ( I make soaps and bath stuff, and chocolate truffles), and homeschool. She stays at home and can't seem to get back into crafting. I have no answer really, except that I am "ADHD" and she isn't.
I reaaly enjoy being hyper Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I'm going to disagree with you Ken.
For some people who do not have ADHD, but have some of the traits, then yes, it's a personality trait. You can be prone to hyperfocusing, you can be prone to disorganization and a hazy memory, you can have trouble concentrating at tasks you don't enjoy - and you can NOT have ADD.
No one is saying everyone who has those symptoms have ADD.
What is a fact though, is that some people are helped by medication, and others are not. Remember that ADDers react atypically to stimulants. The drugs don't work the same on people with ADD as they do on people without it. That suggests a difference in the brain chemistry.
Changes in the way my mind chemically works is not a personality trait. It's a disorder, because it means my brain does not function like the majority of the population and that this difference in function affects my quality of life.
Is it a crutch? No. I can't sit here and let my house fall apart around me and say "WEll, I have ADD so I'm not good at housework and I can't stay on task so I should just let the house fall apart and who cares if the kids have clean clothes to wear and clean linens on their beds?"
No, I have to get up and clean my house and care for my kids. In order to do that, I need help with medication and behavior therapy. I have to develop coping skills, things like setting timers, keeping to a set schedule during the day (in 30 minutes I have to fix lunch for the kids and then clean the kitchen and start a load of laundry. That should be finished by 1:30, at which time I need to go upstairs and make up the beds) so that I don't forget the essential tasks.
ADD is more than a personality trait with me. It seriously hinders my ability to do my job. And if it affects my quality of life (and that of my family) to the point that I need professional treatment, then guess what? I call that a disorder. So does my psychiatrist and my therapist.
[ March 16, 2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Belle ]
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I was diagnosed to the full extent of the tests at the time as a poster child for ADD. I was hyper, i couldn't sit still, and i couldn't concentrate on a single task for very long.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Learn to like it, because short of Vulcan mind-meld, you're stuck. Is it a solution then... that must mean there was a problem. Is there a problem being You, the person You were born as? I don't see why. ![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
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