As per the discussion in this thread, this is the first meeting of the Hatrack Bible Study Group. Welcome, and help yourself to refreshments.
The method we’re going to be using this week is modified from a form of lectio divina that I learned hanging out with Benedictines. I’ve adjusted it to work (I hope) with a group that’s dispersed in both geography and time. There will be a different “assignment” for each of three days, and then beginning on the fourth day we’ll open up the conversation to post about people’s experience with the process.
Ground rules – This is not a debate thread. Please do not challenge anyone’s personal reflection. In parallel to that, please do not state your personal reflection as if it were binding on other people.
Use any Bible translation that you like. I’ll post the text for those of you who don’t have a Bible, but feel free to use another translation if you’d prefer.
No previous experience with the Bible, particular belief about the Bible, or religious faith is required. Anyone is welcome to participate.
Please hold commentary/questions about the process until Friday, or start another thread for them.
[ March 26, 2004, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Day One Instructions
If you plan on participating, it would be a good idea to start before reading other people’s responses. So read these instructions and follow them before reading the rest of the thread.
Find a quiet place, where you will be undisturbed for at least five minutes (more if you can). Close your eyes and take a few deep breaths. Try to clear your mind of distractions. Now open your eyes and read the text slowly. Read out loud if you can, if that would be disturbing to others, read “out loud” in your head so that you can hear the individual words.
Sit in silence for a time. I usually let this go about one minute with a group, but since you don’t have anyone to time it, just go with what feels comfortable. (If you’re not used to silence, go a little longer than feels comfortable.)
Read the text again, slowly and (if practicable) out loud.
Sit in silence for another minute. In this silence, listen for the word or phrase that sticks in your head.
Come back to Hatrack, and post that word or phrase in this thread. Post only the word or phrase – no explanations, no commentary.
As you go through your day, hold onto that word or phrase. Repeat it to yourself, as opportunity presents. Don’t worry too much about what it means or why you chose it, just sit with it for a day.
Come back tomorrow for further instructions!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The text: Psalm 42:1-6a
quote:As a deer longs for flowing streams, so longs my soul for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When shall I come and behold the face of God? My tears have been my food day and night, while people say to me continually, ‘Where is your God?’
These things I remember, as I pour out my soul: how I went with the throng, and led them in procession to the house of God, with glad shouts and songs of thanksgiving, a multitude keeping festival. Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my help and my God.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Hope in God
FG
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:Hope in God
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: When shall I come and behold the face of God?
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
a multitude keeping festival.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
These things I remember
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
My soul thirsts...
Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
while people say to me continually, Where is your God?
[ March 23, 2004, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Jacare Sorridente ]
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
so longs my soul for you
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Hope in God. Tears have been my food.
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
My soul thirsts for God.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me? Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
The face of God
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
"Where is my God" Posted by Audeo (Member # 5130) on :
Surely, as the Lord lives
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
so longs my soul for you, O God Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
My tears have been my food
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
These things I remember... Posted by GZ (Member # 6077) on :
soul thirsts Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
"The face of God"
Posted by Zevlag (Member # 1405) on :
My tears have been my food day and night
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
for the living God
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
for I shall again praise him
Posted by Plain Jane (Member # 6142) on :
My tears have been my food day and night, while people say to me continually, ‘Where is your God?’ Posted by dawnmaria (Member # 4142) on :
Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me?
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
The phrase that sticks with me is
quote: These things I remember as I pour out my soul
Now I can go read the rest of the thread. Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me?
[ March 23, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Jenny Gardener ]
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
quote: As a deer longs for flowing streams, so longs my soul for you, O God.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
flowing streams My soul thirsts..for the living God
[ March 23, 2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: LadyDove ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
pour out my soul Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
My tears have been my food
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Why are you cast down, O my soul
Hobbes Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
My soul thirsteth for to see God, for to see the living God; when shall I come and appear before thee, O God? (JST Psalms 42:2)
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
As a deer longs for flowing streams, so longs my soul for thee, O God.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Day Two Instructions
Same text, similar process.
Again, if you’re participating, read and follow the instructions before reading further in the thread.
Find a quiet place, close your eyes and take a few deep breaths. Try to clear your mind of distractions. Open your eyes and read the text slowly, out loud, if possible, otherwise “out loud” in your head.
Sit in silence. If you had trouble with the silence yesterday, try to go a little longer today. Otherwise, as long as you feel comfortable.
Read the text again, slowly and (if practicable) out loud.
Sit in silence again. Then come back to Hatrack and in one or two sentences post the answer to the question, “What do you believe God is saying to you today?” (If you don't believe in God, feel free to phrase this as “what is the text saying to you today?”) No need to specify which of those questions you are answering, and again, please refrain from commentary or explanations.
Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
I don't really think of this in terms of what God is saying to me today- more along the lines of what is it in this scripture is relevant to me today. Along those lines what I get out of the Psalm is this: There are times when doubt may set in or just when others may question your faith. There is no need to be shaken by such experiences- remember what it was that led to your faith in the first place, and be patient. One doesn't need a "spiritual experience" daily to retain hope in God.
D'oh! I just reread and saw the one or two sentences rule. Oh well, I guess I don't follow directions very well.
By the way Dkw- good call on the whole study group thing.
[ March 24, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Jacare Sorridente ]
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Though I may (or may not) go with the throng, it is my personal relationship with God that is my strength and my hope. I should work to strengthen this relationship to ease my disquieted soul.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I have fed on my own misery, have been sustained by my grief.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I feel like my relationship with God has waned. I long for that close connection that I have felt before and I am given hope that I will feel it again.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I feel as if I am at a cross roads, and I need some direction. But I don't know how, or why, or what.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Tears and sorrow are as valid an expression of emotion as happiness is. In fact, the grief can be as healthy and sustaining as the joy. I should not cut myself off from either end of the human spectrum.
(sorry tht is three sentences)
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
My soul thirsteth for to see God...
I missed ward temple night this month. I always enjoy attending with my friends and family.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
After reconsideration, I have to say that this says nothing to me, because "once again" implies a "once" I don't have.
[ March 24, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: celia60 ]
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
God is saying to me:
You can't always live on a spiritual *high*. That the moments of great joy, of great connection, of outpouring of the spirit may be brief in relation to the relative placidness [maybe complacence?] of everyday life, but that these moments are enough to sustain. But that doesn't mean a life of passiveness. That what matters is that you are receptive to the "once again."
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
The text speaks to me of a huge loneliness.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I step away and someone starts a Bible study thread. I don't think I can stay away from this.
My phrase was:
"Why are you cast down"
God is saying:
You have chosen to be depressed, now choose to be in love with me again.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I was once close to God. Being part of the throng, the multitude, took me away from what God really was.
Posted by dawnmaria (Member # 4142) on :
I feel God is telling me he has always been there for me, it's been my lack of *fill in here with numerous failings* that has kept us apart or not as close as I would wish to be.
Posted by Ryan Hart (Member # 5513) on :
quote:people say to me continually, ‘Where is your God?’
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I've forgotten to keep God in my heart and in my life. I've dealt with things internally and haven't looked for His guidance.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
My reflections:
I see my own experiences in this passage. Sometimes I feel that God is far from me. I know that in times past I have felt very close to Him and rejoiced in that feeling. When I feel like God is far from me, I often realize that it is because of my own actions (or inaction). After realizing this, I may experience a sort of spiritual hunger, a desire to be close to God once again. And even though I have not yet drawn near to Him, I am confident that I will feel His presence near me again.
I think that hunger is a good thing to experience. It often precedes a time of new growth. I remember that Jesus said "blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness...." Matt 5:6
I admire the phrase "As a deer longs for flowing streams, so my soul longs for you." I don't know if my hunger is so profound, and I think that longing is admirable.
[ March 24, 2004, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by GZ (Member # 6077) on :
In God lies what you most hunger for. And it is not enough to welcome him in on the surface or just by being part of the group; it must be done with the whole heart/soul, or you will be left still wanting.
[ March 24, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: GZ ]
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Where have I been leading the throng. Is it really to God? Or am I jsut following the throng and going where they will?
Posted by cochick (Member # 6167) on :
I missed out on start and I have to go to bed but I'll catch up and post my replies tomorrow
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
"Hope in God; for I shall again praise him"
As resistant as my head is, my heart believes that I will once again find peace with God.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
I registered a thirst and an empty belly upon my arrival.
There was nobody at the desk out front.
Posted by Zevlag (Member # 1405) on :
I need to commit to that which I know, I need to understand that which I know. And give thanks.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
"Be still, my soul the waves and winds still know His voice who ruled them while he dwelt below".
Suggestion: Could we go back and edit the previous day's post instead of posting a new post each day?
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
"Thou still unravished bride of quietness..."
The silence of woods in winter, the purity of a cold running stream, the beauty of stars in heaven, they are here with me.
Let go of the burden and just be.
[ March 25, 2004, 02:35 AM: Message edited by: aka ]
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Life isn't static; nor is joy, sorrow, fear or security. But God is constant. He is the one thing that remains and sustains me; a float through the wonderful and terrible currents of my life.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
reduction?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Pooka, I’d prefer that people make a new post each day, rather than editing for a couple of reasons. First, it allows someone joining late to follow the process without inadvertently reading ahead. Second, I’m trying to duplicate as much as possible the “feel” of doing this together on a retreat, and I think a sequential conversation will work better for that.
Day Three Instructions
Again, same text, similar process.
If you’re participating, read and follow the instructions before reading further in the thread.
Find a quiet place, close your eyes and take a few deep breaths. Try to clear your mind of distractions. Open your eyes and read the text slowly, out loud, if possible, otherwise “out loud” in your head.
Sit in silence.
Read the text again, slowly and (if practicable) out loud.
Sit in silence a bit longer this time. Listen for the answer to the question “What is God calling me to do today. (Non-theists, feel free to phrase this as “What next?” or “So what?” or “How shall I respond?” )
Come back to Hatrack, and post one or two paragraphs in response to that question.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
There's a stillness inside. Not unpleasant. A stillness that allows for sitting up straigt, listening to the early a.m. bird chatter, breathing and feeling the path of the air. There is a place of peace. What I need and seek. Whether I call it God or centering or nothing at all, it can be found and entered. At will?
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Reflect, nourish my soul.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
More JST Psalms:
quote:42:3 My tears have been poured out unto thee day and night, while mine enemies continually say unto me, Where is thy God?
42:4 When I remember mine enemies, I pour out my soul to thee; for I had gone with the multitude; I also went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with the multitude that kept holyday.
He is calling me to come to His house (and also to pray for my enemies).
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Wait.
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
I'm sorry. I missed day two. I'll combine both into one post.
I believe that God is telling me that I need him. I've been rejecting him for so long. God wants me to trust him.
And I think he wants me to tell someone about Him. This scares me. I'm very new to all of this, and I have no idea how to do it.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
How shall I respond to that which does not apply to me? If I ignore the last two lines, it is a window into my own past. An opportunity to reflect upon where I am now in relation to that time.
But aren't we supposed to take the whole into consideration? In whole, I have the reactions of the girl who leans towards believing and the girl who leans against. And even with those two, more than one reaction. That part of her that says, yes, yes I want to know that feeling, the part of her that says why are You taunting me with that which You have never seen fit to grant me? the part that says, it's amazing what people can convince themselves is real, the part that says not having this experience is not the same as it not being real and therefore it can only be filed as the words of others and not sorted into either column. And I think that's where the needle stops. Whether it is me asking or Him asking me to fit this in, the answer is the same. I have never known the presense of God, and someone else telling me about it does not change that.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Be still, be calm. Stop worrying about the weather, and count on the climate. Let me operate on my own time line.
Dana -- since you're going to be editing the first post each day, in addition to editing the topic, you might insert a link to the current day's instructions, so people don't have to search to find it. Just a thought.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Well I thought this whole passage was taking me towards the direction of being able to express my emotions better. I have difficulty being able to actually express vulnerable emotions. I bottle them up and this is unhealthy. (this is as spiritual as I'm going to get in this post)
However last night after sitting on the couch shivering sweating and crying while watching Snow Dogs of all things on TV, (with "tears have been my food" as a refrain in the back of my mind) I'm wondering if I'm actually getting sicker than just a sinus problem and that my current state of mind has nothing to do with emotional vulnerability. What should I probably do? Make an appointment for the doctor. Am I going to? I'm not sure yet. I wish this would get better on its own!
AJ
(Called the doc, got his answering service. I can't make an actual appointment until tomorrow.)
[ March 25, 2004, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by GZ (Member # 6077) on :
Hmmm... I don't know if I feel a "calling," though I don't know if I would recognize one even if I had one. Again I relate very strongly with the sense of yearning within the passage, which fits closely with both my own renewed interest developing in my relationship with God and a general desire to experience life more fully than I have been and find a greater sense of community. But those are thoughts I brought with me to the passage, and that I see them reflected there only sharpens the emotions I already had.
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
Growing closer to Him, walking in His light, is more important for me right now than anything I can try to accomplish in the world. I am driven to try so hard, I have to make things right in the world, but if I don't make things right first within myself, then I will accomplish nothing of lasting value.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Be at peace with the journey. Spend less time looking behind me and less effort straining forward. Be grateful. Listen.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
quote:Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my help and my God.
It reminds me of what is called the "Psalm of Nephi" in the Book of Mormon as he struggles to not hold a grudge against his enemies. Faith is a part of you that doesn't depend on the thoughts or actions of those who don't believe as you do, for faith is a response to God and not mortals.
He is calling me to not be so worked up about what others think (believer or non-believer) about my faith or relationship with God. The important thing is that I am working on getting my "calling and election made sure" in this life or the next (for those who wouldn't understand, i.e. create a relationship and faith in God to the point that its practically assured that I will be with God.)
As an aside: It is really difficult for me to be a part of this, although I want to be. My approach to Scripture has always been what does the text say, rather than what does it mean to me subjectively. Of course, you could say that what I feel the text means is what it means to me. All objective interpretations have a subjective underpinning.
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
This doesn't exactly relate to the text, but it's what I've been feeling for the last day or so.
When my faith stopped making sense, I stopped praying. Last night, a situation arose with a friend that made me want to pray for the first time in months. And I did. I think God is telling me that prayer is the first step back in His direction. That the peace that prayer can bring will propel me toward a stronger faith.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Day Four
Thank you all for participating. It is now time to open the thread for comments and discussion– about the text, about the process, about whatever you like.
Please be gentle with people’s personal stories / comments that were shared as part of this process. No one should feel obliged to defend or even explain them, unless they so choose.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
To me it sounds like the Psalmist has a rough life, being persecuted by his enemies. But communing with God in the temple enabled him to pray for his enemies, much like Enos did in The Book of Mormon. The Psalmist longs to commune with God again.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Sorry, I've missed the last couple of days.
The passage just strikes me as a man who remembers a day when he was in a glory from the world and felt his spirit had soared to and within the Lord during that time. Now, as the days of glory had passed, he finds himself feeling less touched by the Lord, less blessed and less worthy, but without realizing that God is with him, just as strongly, at the highs and lows of life, not just when he leads the faithful to the temple.
It hits a chord with me and is reminding me now, that in the depths of our struggles in life, when we feel up against the wall and forgotten that therein is our test of faith. It's not a test of God's attention to us, but of our attention to God.
For me, I've been struggling with this for the past four years. I left my home in the Appalachians to marry my wife and come to live with her. While I didn't have much moneywise there, I had the life of an active small town newspaper editor: everyone knew me whereever I went, I was respected and placed in positions beyond the years of my age would normally have warranted (asked to run for office, being part of the county Economic Development Advisory Board, the Arts Council, Partnership for Children initiative and being able, through my work, to motivate and move people to enact change, all before I was 30 years old). I was a big fish in a small pond.
Since moving to Greensboro, I've seen a much, much bigger pond and become a much, much smaller fish. I've had no luck with newspapers here (including getting mixed up with a start-up that turned out to be a complex con game) and have had a heck of a time just finding decent employment (until recently). After my wife spent a year and a half unemployed and we nearly lost our house and cars (still struggling with this), I do find myself wondering where God went and how those blessings seemed to have faded.
Somewhere, in reading the passage, it just slid back into place. My life had changed but God hadn't. My feelings of abandonment were misguided, and somehow, someway, the desperation is sloughing off and going away. But through it all... heck, I'm just rambling, trying to grab onto the thread and spin it into words, but there's something there.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Well, the words, came as I stood on the back porch and smoked.
You're a fish, don't worry about the pond, just swim, that's all I ask of you.
That's what the passage brought to me in the end.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
For me, I think it is comforting that other people feel the same flux in relation to God that I do. My faith, my determination, my committment all wax and wane but that's not abnormal - apparently even prophets feel that. And it helps to know that I need not despair in these times of loneliness, but I can look forward to the day when I again "praise Him".
[ March 26, 2004, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I'm honestly having a hard time meditating on it with the recent dkw-Bob news.
I guess right now I'm dancing with joy in the streets along with them.
The good news and a lot of sleep does seem to have gotten me out of my recent funk. Sinuses have become more normal too.
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I missed yesterday's assignment. Kudos to dkw for being so on-the-ball! She has every reason not to be.
I don't know if this passage was written by David or not or when, but it makes me think of David post-Bathsheba. I feel that is one of the most tragic stories in the scriptures. It makes me want to cry when I think of "The Lord is my shepherd...." Again, I don't know if that was written by David, but it just seems like he was so close to God and had such joy in Him, but then he made a fatal error (fatal to Uriah anyway). He was so sad after that. Things were never quite the same for him.
So, assuming that my assumptions are anywhere near correct, I look at this passage and see David missing the days when he was in the Lord's bosom so-to-speak, golden days that would never quite return to him. Very sad.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
Day 3 (plus like 5 days) I feel very uncomfortable knowing or seeking to know what God wants me to do. I guess from this reading I feel like he wants me to draw near unto him. But I feel like I don't know which door to find him behind. I guess it's like that Cat Stevens song "life is just a maze of doors and they all open from the side you're on".
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I'm supposed to learn and grow. So that involves being connected, but also being on my own some too. I had a true dream once that showed me not to get too comfortable. What I seek is to be found at the edge, or during the gut wrenching drop. Not safely inside, surrounded by loving family and friends. I have that place always. That is my home. But I'm needed at the edge and on the long long fall. I'm needed and I need to be there. There joy lives.
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