It has been a while since I have seen this, so I now I feel safe to broach the subject without targeting or offending anyone, but....
Has anyone else notice that people tend to give their resumes here? I have never heard so many people pat themselves on the back for enjoying literacy, understanding politics, being gifted, or knowing some unusual intelligent work of art or literacy.
Has anyone else felt that here on Hatrack? I know I have actually done it myself in my unneeded proclamation of my study. Why does this happen so much here? Or am I seeing something that is not here?
Posted by Ryan Hart (Member # 5513) on :
I have to say...that's a really bad thread topic. Your just asking to get ganged up on.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I think this is a somewhat special place in that people feel comfortable talking about lots of things (good and bad) that happen in their lives a bit more openly than they might in other online forums.
I also think that there might be an element of "nerds gone wild" here. I mean, you mix in a bunch of folks who don't relate well to others and give them a bit of positive reinforcement, and WHAM! they turn into validation junkies.
I know that's why I'm here.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I read a great underground book by a Sherpa in the Himalayas on this very subject.
[ March 30, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Frisco ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Alexa, I know what you are talking about, but I agree with Bob. I think it is more of a comfort level thing. Lots of times, people have to hide their intelligence. It sounds dumb, but it is true. I think people here feel respected, and feel OK talking about their gifts. That is how I see it.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Cool, Frisco. I wrote that book.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
I intend not as a rip, but as a social question. I have said many times I got my degree in Psychology, and in other places I have referred to my love of reading. But as I type it, I know I am doing it to feel like I have a high IQ and can fit in such an esteemed crowd.
Does anyone else do that? I embellish myself, and when I read, I see that in others. SO, does anyone else pat themselves on the back to fit in here? The psychologist in my wants to know, because after all, that is what I studied. Plus, I tend to do it myself.
Myabe I should of requested you talk about your own posts, and not others. I have a feeling I am not the only one who has noticed this.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
It's because we're all smarter than you, Alexa, and want to make sure you know it.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I was saving my 999th post for something important and I figure this is as good as any:
Why does it say there are 3 posts on this thread when in reality there are five (six including this?)
What is happening to Hatrack? Somebody else mentioned this on another thread, and now it's happening here...
EDIT: Now it's fixed, and you're all going to think I'm going crazy but I swear that something was happening.
[ March 30, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"But as I type it, I know I am doing it to feel like I have a high IQ and can fit in such an esteemed crowd."
Perhaps not everyone who does this has the same intention -- although I'm sure that some do.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Some people (especially on-line) think that their opinions and comments carry more weight (are more important, trustworthy, or "right" than other opinions and comments) if they state their credentials. In some cases, this is true (the statement of a doctor about some medical issue is probably more trustworthy than the statement of a random person) but not in every case.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
The things I've accomplished that I thought were pretty great, I don't mention often because people might think I'm bragging. Those things barely get me in the door around here.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I remember reading some forum "discussion" about how intelligent people judge others by their intelligence and how this was every bit as shallow as judging a person by their apperance. I don't agree with the comparison, but I do think that smart people do tend to do this.
So when smart people get together, they tend to preen their intelligence level a little.
I also really like what Bob said.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:underground book by a Sherpa in the Himalayas
So, was he, like, in a cave?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I told you I wrote that book, Bob. Are you calling me a he?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
CT is a writer, a pediatrician, and has a PhD in philosophy. Everyone on Hatrack is smoked before leaving the starting gate.
On top of everything, she NEVER credential-drops. Even when she has to twist around to avoid carting out the doctor title.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
This is sort of crossing threads or whatever, but I remember something from church that has remained with me always. It is the old "Don't hide your light" thing. True humility is recognizing your gifts as gifts from God(or just as gifts of nature if God is not your thing) What you are doing is not bragging, but simply stating who you are.
I think people who are super-bright are always trying to NOT say they are, because it is assumed they are bragging. It is really no different than saying "I have brown hair." (except, in my case, that would be a lie, since it is really quite gray. But I digress)
[ March 30, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
Holy crap. I'm personal proof of CT's non credential dropping. I knew she was a doctor, but I had *no idea* she had a PhD in Philosophy. And I'd like to think I've been here a little while...
*feels inferior*
....but that happens a lot, on Hatrack.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Just like Bob_S doesn't usually mention that he has a PhD -- I was here several months before I realized the high education level of many of you.
*not that you can tell it from Bob's posts, of course*
okay -- I'm just full of snarkiness today and should stop posting until tomorrow
Farmgirl
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If it makes some of you feel better, I'm a college dropout.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Well, I know I speak on behalf of all Hatrack when I say that yes, Tom, we do all feel better.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:I told you I wrote that book, Bob. Are you calling me a he?
Well, Liz, if you can be an underground Sherpa in the Himalayas, I wouldn't put ANYTHING past you.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Anyone who is automatically impressed with the fact that someone is a Ph.D. has probably never spent much time around Ph.D.s
Heck, there are parts of Cambridge, MA where you can't hardly sleep overnight on a park bench without fighting for it with a gaggle of Ph.D.s
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
Truthfully, I have yet to find anyone that I can sit down with and have a deep discussion about religion, government, philosophy, and the intriguing points behind movies and books.
Hatrack has filled that void for me on many occasions.
As for why people seam to list their credentials, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that no one really knows anyone on here, and they have to give some basis for their opinion. Some kind of weight to their thoughts.
In any discussion you have to know if the people discussing are qualified to even give an opinion. And if someone happens to know a lot about one subject, I am sure they are proud of that knowledge, and will more than likely have a tendancy to go overboard a little
But it really is like that anywhere you go. I think it is just more prevailant on the message boards due to the anonymity of the users, and the need to provide information that backs up your "wisdom".
Edit: I didn't read ludos' post, but pretty much about the same as what I said.
[ March 30, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Chaz_King ]
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:Anyone who is automatically impressed with the fact that someone is a Ph.D. has probably never spent much time around Ph.D.s
I will second this. I spent about 7 years around Ph.D.s of the employed variety. A few were very interesting, intelligent and supportive people. They seemed to be outnumbered by those who had trouble talking about anything outside of their specialty.
One really vivid recollection was of a professor who was looking for my mentor, who wasn't in at the time. He then asked me if I followed basketball. I said, no, I never had. He proceeded to talk basketball at me for ten full long minutes! Posted by Sal (Member # 3758) on :
On the other hand, I admit that it often DOES affect how I listen to someone, at least in more specialized discussions. If you say you have a degree in psychology, then I AM a bit more interested in your opinion about, say, brainwashing. Or what sndrake has to say about bioethics, etc.
Now that I know Bob has a PhD I might even start reading his posts... Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
In rhetoric, it is called "appeal to authority". If you can set yourself up as an authority, your words have borrowed weight. [/geek]
It's all about jostling for position. CT's so far ahead that it's just jostling for second place.
Posted by Chaz_King (Member # 3184) on :
I know I lurk a lot and only post every now and then, so excuse my ignorance... but who is CT?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Claudia Therese
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:On the other hand, I admit that it often DOES affect how I listen to someone, at least in more specialized discussions. If you say you have a degree in psychology, then I AM a bit more interested in your opinion about, say, brainwashing. Or what sndrake has to say about bioethics, etc.
Just to be clear - I do NOT have a Ph.D. - I effectively abandoned that for what I do now. Much to the chagrin of my advisor, an academic who put a high value on social justice and activism.
I hope what credibility I have on those topics I work on is based on the experience and study I bring to it. Degrees aren't meaningless, but they aren't everything, either.
Posted by Argèn†~ (Member # 4528) on :
People also like to feel special. What's wrong with that? It's nice to talk about accomplishment and feel supported for it.
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
CT = Claudia_Therese
I'm probably one of the worst about posting autobiographical, "gee aren't I neat" details here, at least in terms of percentage if not pure volume.
It's something I'm working on. I have an amazing capacity to receive attention and still feel ignored, to receive praise and still feel valueless, and receive love and still feel unlovable. So when I do this, the primary reason is that I'm neurotic. Ironically, I'm probably doing it again, with this post, in that "I'm special because I have problems" kind of fashion that melodramatic teens tend to use...oh well. <shrug>
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I definately didn't know Bob had a PhD! What's it in?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Puns
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Didn't Bob get his PhD running rats through mazes? Now he does it to us. Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I just want to say that my credentials are better than YOUR credentials. I am... the chosen one. Beat that!
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I think it's because we value people's gifts, and because we want to share what we bring to the community.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Praise me! I am the chosen one!!!
Said the lobster as he was pulled out of the tank.
It's clear from this thread that I've talked way too much about my degree. But since you asked! LOL. rivka is right. I ran rats in mazes & pigeons in Skinner boxes.
Peck at the colored lights, my little doves...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The great claw has chosen me!
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Possibly because it beats sitting around having conversations like:
So, tell me, what do you do?
Oh, nothing special.
What do you think about?
I try not to think.
What have you learned in life?
Not much.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
I know how to do taxes But even my degree is so old and about stuff no one cares about even when it was new. Uh, let's see, though my sister did call me late sunday night with a morphology emergency. She wanted to know if there was any system to which prefixes are used to negate a word in English.
The only thing I know about Alexa is she claims to have family home evening regularly 0_o
I've never been intimidated by CT's credentials (I'm sure Theca feels bad about not being the center of this debate ) But when I found out she is more psychologically diverse than me, I was really blue. I dunno, I don't ever see myself posting a message asking for their help. I guess I might feel differently if I didn't have any relations I could bother for advice during their leisure hours. :straps on the dogpile armor:
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "Every man I meet is in some way my superior." A corrolary to this statement is the fact that everyone we meet is in some way our inferior. I think there are two types of people in the world, or everyone is on a spectrum between two extremes. Some people focus on their strengths so that they can feel superior to anyone that they meet. Others focus on the strengths of the people around them so that they can learn from them and strengthen their weaknesses.
I work with a pharmacist named Mary who is on the side A of the spectrum. For those of you who don't know, in a pharmacy there are two types of people: pharmacists and technicians. Pharmacists are the ones with a degree that allows them legally to oversee the running of the pharmacy, and technicians assist them. This pharmacist that I work with treats every technician she encounters with complete contempt. One of these techs has lived all over the world and knows everything you would want to about geography, culture and customs. Another is a bodybuilder/ personal trainer, with an amazing amount of discipline and understanding of exercise physiology. Another is incredibly skilled at crafts. Another is a gourmet chef. Another is an immigrant who speaks three languages fluently and smatterings of a few others. But all this pharmacist sees is people who didn't go to school, and regardless of what they did instead, they are automatically inferior to her in the only way that counts.
On the other end of the spectrum is my former kung fu teacher, MasterLu. When he was growing up in Taiwan he convinced a Shaolin monk who had fled China during the Communist revolution to teach him kung fu. In order to pay for the lessons, he opened his own restaurant in his early teens. He simultaneously became a gourmet chef, a successful entrepreneur, a doctor of acupuncture and traditional Eastern medicine and a tai chi/kung fu master (a title that isn't given as lightly in China as it is in America.) He was Chinese National Champion of kung fu two years in a row, beating all his opponents from all provinces in all weight categories. When his master immigrated to America in 1974 he chose Master Lu, his prize pupil, to come with him. Master Lu opened his own kung fu studio and drove through legislation to licence practitioners of accupuncture, becoming the first licenced acupuncturist in the state of Utah. He also married an American and together they raised one of the happiest and most functional families I've ever met. He has more things to brag about than just about anyone I know. But of all the things I've listed and many more things that I've learned about him, he never mentioned any of them to me. When I started learning kung fu from him all I knew was that he appeared to be a small unassuming Asian man. Over the three years I studied with him I learned all these things, little by little, from members of his family and other people that knew him well. He displayed no trophies in his studio, preferring to decorate it with pictures of his master and his students, cultural artifacts and pictures of himself practicing with his classmates in China. He told no stories of amazing fights that he won, in tournaments and on the streets (and there were plenty of both.) He rarely even displayed the full extent of his skills. Instead, when I talked to him, he preferred to listen to me tell him about what I was learning in school. He asked me where I was from, what I'd done in my life, and what my family was like. He listened much better than he talked, and as amazing a specimen of humanity as he was, he always made me feel important. His display of this character trait was a more valuable lesson than any he ever gave me in kung fu.
I learned a lot from both these people. Mainly I learned that I'd rather be like Master Lu than Mary. When I come to Hatrack I look for people that are superior to me. I don't want to mention names for fear of leaving anyone out, but I've met people here that have taught me about visual art, music, language and linguistics, logic, writing, medicine, psychology, politics, computers, popular culture, economics and a host of other subjects. I love it when people pull rank on me. I try to learn from people who are strong where I am weak, but, God help me, I'm a bit thick sometimes. There are plenty of times when I think I know something and someone who has actual knowledge of the subject will post a contrary opinion. Then I get to take a look at my beliefs and possibly even modify them. It's a good thing.
Yes, I've noticed people posting resumes on Hatrack. But most of the time they seem to list qualifications in an effort to enlighten rather than to prove superiority. I love it. I see some Mary in myself sometimes, but I'm trying to be more like Master Lu. And when people make their strengths more obvious it only helps me. That's why I'm here. So keep at it.
[edit: Wow, that was long. I should have saved it for my landmark. Hope nobody minds. ]
[ March 31, 2004, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: Speed ]
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
This thread is exactly why I've decided to just skate by on my looks.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
I just now read this thread.
I'm in High School. Advanced program, granted, but I already feel like I'm never going to catch up. You guys are amazing.
By the way, Elizabeth, I wrote that book. I would have the papers to prove it, but they had an unfortunate incident involving a match, two pounds of Napalm, and a funnel.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I don't need looks. I am... The One! My looks are just a secondary great feature.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
T has the brown jacket. I have moles so that if the world economy ever collapses, I will still be able to do "Mr. Chinnigan" without the aid of eyeliner to put eyes on my chin.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
So... Wait, Bob is a psych major??? Stop with the analysing me!!!!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Booooooooob...help me get my phd.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
Am I the only person over 30 here who kind of wishes they were in HRE's shoes? Kind of, except knowing what I know now so I can live my life safe and boring with no weird surprises. I remember being in high school and folks saying how you should treasures these years and wishing those particular weirdos could go back in time and treasure the reign of Vlad the impaler. Now I'm one of them.
Posted by lcarus (Member # 4395) on :
Wow, Speed. That was an amazing post. What a neat person Master Lu sounds like!
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
In spite of this thread appearing to be mostly about IQs and education and whatnot, I think that knowing people's backgrounds actually helps our discussions become less academic and more human. Not that purely academic discussions aren't interesting, but I think the heart of this board is people just talking from their own places.
quote:Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "Every man I meet is in some way my superior." A corrolary to this statement is the fact that everyone we meet is in some way our inferior.
Mmm...my mother once said that "life isn't fair." That statement just sounds too close to fair to be true. It looks like the same thinking that leads some to believe that pretty people can't be smart, that smart people cannot be successful with the opposite sex...
Sort of reminds me of a Frasier episode where Frasier meets a man who he feels is, in every way, his better. If I remember correctly, he works through it, but at the end discovers the one thing he can do better than this other man. It doesn't always work out that way though. Life isn't fair.
Speed, I do have to say that I like what you took from the quote and your own experiences. I just wasn't feeling the Emerson quote, not disagreeing with your take on it at all.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
Wow Speed,
Nice quote.
Wow, everyone, I stand corrected. Perhaps most vredentials are not about tooting the horn, but rather, to place quotes in perspective.
I must say, I enjoy the discussions that go on here.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Speed...nice post.
quote:I don't want to mention names for fear of leaving anyone out, but I've met people here that have taught me about visual art, music, language and linguistics, logic, writing, medicine, psychology, politics, computers, popular culture, economics and a host of other subjects
Hint...you left out PUNS!!!
mack, if it was up to me, you'd have your PhD already.
So, have you applied yet? What's next?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Not quite sure yet.
I need to contact faculty at the schools where I might want to go and see if they're interested in my research.
I need to take the GRE.
I need to find a professor at a college around here that will agree to help me with my proposal and pilot for an independent study in experimental.
I need to take stats.
*sigh*
Anyway...interested in looking at my proposal draft and neuro notes thus far?
I found a NIMH database that you can request datasets from previous fMRI studies. Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Sure thing! Send the proposal to:
bscopatz@data-nexus.com
Stats is not a problem. I'm really bad at math and considered a pretty decent statistician in that I can explain what the results mean and usually run the software packages without committing gigantic blunders.
If you go for understanding the concepts behind the statistical tests, and you understand experimental methodology, you'll be far ahead of most people in the field.
Knowing how to actually calculate the statistics is less important. You might even be able to con a friend into running the stats for you. hint hint.
<have stats package and I love crunching numbers>
Whee!!!
edit to add: We loves giant data sets!
[ March 31, 2004, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Geez, Bob, I should've hired you! You don't TEACH stats, do you? I had to coerce a co-worker into doing an introductory SAS class because there was a lot of interest here among the lab technicians. He seems pretty excited about doing it now, though, and he's probably going to do a monthly lesson as people suggest application ideas. I'm pretty proud of getting that set up for us. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Bob--sent.
And I DO understand the principles underlying stats. We've started that and learning SPSS (isn't hard thus far) in research methods.
But stats is a prerequisite for grad school admission. As is experimental.
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Plus, I tend to do it myself.![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
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![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
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But even my degree is so old and about stuff no one cares about even when it was new. Uh, let's see, though my sister did call me late sunday night with a morphology emergency. She wanted to know if there was any system to which prefixes are used to negate a word in English.