What roll does politeness take in civil group behavior? Is it necessary? What constitutes polite behavior?
fallow
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Yes, it is necessary. I believe that most of our behavior twords one another has historically been grounded in polite behavior. I think that it allows us to function in groups working towards common goals even when we don't agree on every point.
That is not to say that being rude doesn't have it's good points at times. People tend to become very comfortable and resist change, to become set in their ways. Times change, and we have to change as a society or we fall, adn another group that is more flexible and adaptative replaces us. Sometimes it is neccessary to be rude to shock people into change, or into any sort of action at all. Being rude, deliberately, is a way of polarizing views, and then discourse can happen.
The Civil Rights movement is a prime example of this. Blacks holding sit-ins and boycotts in the 50's and 60's were not acting according to the polite rules of society. This is how they made their point, by deliberatly acting out against polite society, forcing a social discourse that was long overdue.
But without the polite rules existing in the first place, their behavior would have been easier to ignore. Sort of a paradox, isn't it? Business as usual attitudes steamrolled over any and all attempts to raise conciousnes of their issues, but without standards of proper behavior they wouldn't have been able to use civil disobedience as a tool for social reform.
Kwea
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Kaiser
----
*half-hug to show I'm kidding* Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I can't help it----I'm on a roll.......
Kwea
Kat: great minds think alike....and so do we....
[ March 31, 2004, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
This week a man robbed a bank on the west side of my city.
As he fled the bank with his money, he held the door open for an older woman coming into the bank.
They're calling him the Gentleman Bandit.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Hi Mack.....
How civil was he to the teller, though?
Kwea
[ March 31, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Civil. He handed her a note saying he had a gun, she gave him money, he left.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I hope he at least said thank you....
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
Kwea,
That's good. Introductions, "hello" and "goodbyes". "Pleased to meet yous" and "I beg your pardons". They are a lubricant of a sort, paving the way to those grandiose common goals.
e.g. "It's been good talking to you, but I'll be taking my leave now. Hope to chat/challenge/argue/flame your ignoramously egotistical heathen arse ASAP."
fallow
Posted by democrat (Member # 6408) on :
Civility is restraining from punching someone in the nose when you want to do so. That and to avoid a lawsuit.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
dem,
that presupposes an invitation to The Party, not a bloody eggressional?
fallow
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
yeah, but it goes even more basic than that...the pleasentries that we are all familiar with (or at least MOST of us are) were created to express the willingness to work together that we needed as a race (the human race, that is) to survive.
In anthropology one of my teachers pointed out that cooperation was a fundemental aspect of human development, one that elevated humans to primacy. Other animals have much better natural weaponry, are stronger, faster, or both, but humans have surpassed them all. All of this can be traced back to speech, which allowed communication and cooperation of larger and larger groups of people. The more people who cooperate, the bigger the jobs that can be attempted.
Civility becomes very important in two ways. First, as a society grows larger and larger, more types of people come into close contact with one another. The possiblity for conflict, which interfears with open communication, grows exponentially. Clear rules of civility help formalize proper rules of conduct, including appropreate ways for resolving conflicts of interests. Second, as a society grows, people tend to break down (catagorize) the larger groups into smaller groups. These smaller groups are easier for people to deal with on a day to day basis. However, civility is important in small groups as well, particularily when the membership of the group is not by choice. For instance, how many of us have had to work with someone they just couldn't stand personally? If your job is in a large factory then you can probably get by fine by dealing with the person as little as possible. We all have neighbors like that as well. But if you work in a small group setting, civility is VERY important. Sometimes you don't have the option of walking away, or telling them off. Civility gives us the ability to work in close quarters with people we dislike, as long as both parties follow the rules.
So civility is an extremely useful tool that we have used for thousands of years, and maybe even longer than that.
Kwea
[ April 03, 2004, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
kwea,
Yes it is. It's a shock that a person can learn the ins and outs of rhetorical argument yet feel ill at ease in the foyer of said host's livingroom.
fallow
[ April 03, 2004, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: fallow ]
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
Marking the beginning of a convo and the end of one should be accessible to everyone. That's a good start at politeness, no?
Posted by democrat (Member # 6408) on :
quote: that presupposes an invitation to The Party, not a bloody eggressional?
huh? Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
dem,
presupposing a context.
fallow
Posted by SoberTillNoon (Member # 6170) on :
fallow (3 above),
Yes, that is a good start. Also, not insulting someone during an argument is another start.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
Is it too much to ask that people say goodbye and hello?
I can't monitor who is active or not except by their posting activity. I find it wrenchingly uncomfortable when someone suddenly disappears.
the "last post thread" sounds like it should address my question, but it doesn't.
fallow
[ April 04, 2004, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: fallow ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I think I may be missing something here.....
Are we talking about here in this forum? The rules are a little different here, as this isn't a conversation, so to speak. If it was a conversation then it would be rude if someone I didn't know jumped in and threw in a comment when they were not included in the original conversation. Here on-line, it not only is acceptable but expected; in fact, it is the reason I post. I like "conversing" with people here, where everything is public and open, and I like getting different viewpoints about topics that I care about. I like listening (so to speak) to the opinions of people I would have otherwise never met, and finding out information that I would have never known.
That doesn't mean that all the same conventions are the same though, because they aren't. I know that I tend to come on-line late at night, and I never know how long I will stay. I type (if you can call it that ) until I am too tired to stay, and then I go to bed. I may be posting on two, or four, or even more threads at once, and I don't think I'm rude by doing so. You aren't in my house, or my guest, and I don't owe you a hello or goodbye, because you aren't really here. We are exchanging notes (or letters) at a very fast rate, and I don't usually wait for a reply before moving on. I don't expect you, or anyone for that matter, to keep the same strange hours I do.
I try to keep tabs on the threads I am interested in, even if they aren't on the first two pages.
But it was rude of you to presume that I have nothing better to do but wait for your reply. This isn't a telephone conversation where I hung up in mid sentance, or a conversation that I walked away from while you were talking.
Think of it more as an open letter to a paper; everyone can read it and reply to it, but not until the next edition.....
Kwea
P.S. If I misread the situation, and you were talking about something else, I apoligize.......is that civil enough?
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
*spreads paper across the bird-cage bottom*
Poop's away!
I agree with you Kwea, certainly. Well, now that I think about it, I don't, really.
I still think a nice howdy-doo and later-alligator would do a lot to spruce up the place.
fallow
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well, that's what's great about civility, fallow......we don't have to agree on everything to get along here!
See, it works....usually....
Kwea
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Good night.....
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
g'night kwea.
I don't think this exchange is a solid example, though. I think things could work better in general.
right!
fallow
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
Have I been asking irrelevant questions?
Posted by Sal (Member # 3758) on :
Here's a polite for fallow.
Told you not to use bread crumbs!
And now Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well fallow, I don't doubt you are right, but that is my point......just because we don't agree completely doesn't mean that we can't have a conversation, even if the rules for posting aren't the same as the rules for IRL conversation. If everyone had all the same views I have thins would always run smooth, but how boring would that be?
Did you start this thread just to protest this forum's rules on posting, or did something else spark this conversation?
Some people I know are raising their children without teaching them proper manners. I realize that they have the right to raise their children however they want, but when they are around me I insist they behave themselves. I don't do that at their house, but if they are in mine they have to follow my rules. Oddly enough the kids love coming over to my house even though I insist they behave.
I think that if you raise kids to respect others you are also teaching them to respect themselves. Kids like boundries, even if they don't consiously realize it, because it tells them what society considers appropriate. So if you teach kids proper manners (whatever you consider that to be) you are giving them tools they will use for the rest of their lives.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
for fallow.![[Sleep]](graemlins/sleep.gif)