I have a question about copyright. Let's say that there's a song that I hear on an album. I like it. The following is a list of things that I could do with that song. Which ones could get me in legal trouble in USA?
Listening to the song by myself at home. Listening to the song with friends at home. Listening to the song with friends at a public park. Playing the song over the PA system at the park during a free festival. Playing the song over the PA system at an event that I am making money from. Singing the song in the shower. Singing/playing the song at home with some friends. Singing/playing the song at a public park with some friends. Performing the song to a public crowd for free. Performing the song at a ticketed venue.
Where is the line? Do any of these cross it?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
The following definitely:
quote: Playing the song over the PA system at an event that I am making money from.
Performing the song to a public crowd for free.
Performing the song at a ticketed venue.
These possibly:
quote: Playing the song over the PA system at the park during a free festival. (probably)
Singing/playing the song at a public park with some friends. (much less probably)
I'm assuming by with friends you mean a small, informal group. The only way the last one I listed would get you in trouble is if the group got pretty large, and even then its highly unlikely.
I'm not exactly speaking to legality (and IANAL, of course), but more to a combination of legality and practice. And it is of course possible to get away with the things above, but if caught at some of them by the copyright holders, many copyright holders would sue (they could only get a civil judgement, and only then if you failed to cease given reasonable notice, unless you were making a fairly large amount of money; there is little legal danger in infringing copyright unless you're doing it for money or over the internet, which has extra restrictions, because it must be pursued civilly and the courts prefer reasonable effort has been made to resolve the situation agreeably).
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Good summary. All I have to add is that the infringement in each case is not against the recording artist, but the songwriter. In other words it's ASCAP/BMI's practicies you should examine, not the RIAA.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
If you play the radio over the PA at an event you're making money off of, does that count?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes. Its outlined in the law exactly what's allowed/required. Usually you just can't do it unless you pay some small fees.
*checks*
I don't see the particular rates mentioned right off, but here's a rundown of how they're determined:
What if you are performing something *based* on someone elses works? I am thinking of a case of a folk song that is open domain using lyrics that are not open domain but were written by a current artist.
What if we have purchased the sheet music? Does that help?
[ April 04, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I don't see how that would be any different. You are still legally beholden to the song writer, correct?
So if it's just a group of us that got together because we like playing, nobody would probably care. Correct?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
beverly: first, why is the song public domain? If the artist who controls all creative elements of the song that are under copyright made it public domain, every lyric in the song is public domain. Just because its available freely doesn't mean its public domain, though. There needs to be explicit notice by the copyright holder.
If there are copyrighted elements in the work that were not made public domain, but are used under fair use, then its pretty hard to tell. Assuming the fair use usage is correct, then so long as they are used in the song as a whole its fine. Using them in excerpts that are clearly from the song as a whole should be fine as well. However, using the excerpts in a way that could be construed as being from the still copyrighted works is likely not fine except for very small snippets that would fall under fair use anyways.
Another possibility is that the song itself is infringing (despite the attempt to place it in the public domain). In that case, only those creative elements (however large or small a part they may be), and the combined synthesis of elements, that were created by the person placing it in public domain may be used freely. The rest of the song remains protected.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes, if you're just a small group of friends playing together, its fine.
Purchasing the sheet music means you own a piece of paper with the words and notes on it, and have a license to use that paper with those words and notes as an item that falls under the doctrine of first sale, and the words and notes as falls under fair use. Nothing more.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Is it different in Canada, because in that case I've definately violated copyright many times.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Its very different in Canada. In Canada you're generally free to play anything you get off the public airwaves (this has recently changed somewhat wrt TV, but afaik its the same with radio still), for instance. I'm not nearly as up on Canadian copyright law, though, so you'd want to do some digging.
Canada has much more sensible copyright law, though, so you're probably safe.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Phew. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Fugu, let me rephrase. The melody is public domain because it is a folk melody passed down from generation to generation. No one knows where it originated. No one has a copyright on the melody. But it has never had lyrics before either. Someone wrote lyrics recently. That is the specific situation I am talking about.
[ April 04, 2004, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
You're perfectly allowed to play the melody. No singing the lyrics for profit, though, or at public events, without paying royalties. They're two different works (three, actually; the tune, the lyrics, and the combination of the two).
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Hmmm. I don't see us playing it for profit, but I would like to play it at free gatherings.
What about choral music that you buy at the store? When a school choir performs, they have to buy copies for each individual. Isn't that payment enough? That's what I meant by us buying the sheet music and calling it good (or legal, as the case may be.)
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
It doesn't matter if you think its payment enough, or even how much it is at all (except as that is limited by the licensor and the gov't), what matters is that its paid in exchange for the proper license.
Its not okay to perform it at public gatherings without a license from the writer. Luckily for you, what a license means is permission. Ask, you'll probably be okayed.
Choral music you buy at the store is often in the public domain, and as such the only cost is the sheet music. If its not in the public domain, a license must still be obtained from the appropriate copyright holder.
Many musicians are perfectly happy to allow church groups and school groups and similar to perform music which copyright is owned by them. However, many are not, and many copyrights are not owned by the musicians, but by a group such as BMI. Which charges a lot of money.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
OK, thanks for that clarification. I imagine we will be asking for that permission in the not-too-distant future.
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