This morning, about 8:30, I wandered downstairs to go to work. After I put my stuff in the car, I realized I'd forgotten work's laptop, so I went back upstairs to get it.
While I was there, there was a knock on my door. I opened it to reveal the man who lives downstairs. He was the one who complained when I first moved in about being able to hear me walk around, but I haven't talked to him for months. Maybe said hello on the stairs.
He wanted to know if I had a phone book. What kind? For the phone. "I mean, what city?" "Dallas."
I left him at the front door and went into the kitchen where these things are kept and asked whether he needed white pages or yellow pages. "Yellow pages." Hmm... that sounded close.
I turned around, and he was standing in the doorway of the kitchen. I handed him the phone books and said I needed to leave for work. He put one hand on my waist and the other on my chin. Excuse me????
I shoved him in the stomach and out of my way and scooted for the door, saying, "Excuse me?? This is unacceptable." He tossed the phone books aside and headed out the door, saying he was confused. I slammed the door and locked them, and took a deep breath. This person lives downstairs!! This explains the creepy watching from the balcony thing!
I went to the manager's office, told the manager, and she told me to call the police. They sent an officer out, and I told the story and filed a report. The officer went downstairs to talk to him, but no one answered the door. I don't know if they are going to try again, but I'll call in a few days and ask what the status is.
Creepy!!! My hands were shaking, and now I'm a little creeped out about my apartment. I don't think there was a serious attempt to harm, because he backed and left fairly quickly. But still.
I think I'm mostly irritated by the "confused" remark. I mean, I live by myself, was that the confusing part? What the heck?? *irritated*
[ April 12, 2004, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by lcarus (Member # 4395) on :
((((Kat))))
[Did you edit, or am I just slow this morning?]
[ April 12, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: lcarus ]
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
At least it's on record that he did that. A police report can mean a lot when there is a problem.
Take care of you!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Oh, my god.
katharina, do you have a deadbolt? If you don't get one put on.
Wow, I'm so glad you involved the apartment manager right away, and I'm so glad that they responded with due concern.
Do whatever you have to do to feel safe, okay?
And another sucky sucky sucky part of this is that were you living "under the protection of a man" (brother, father, husband, boyfriend, even just roommate), you'd probably never have to deal with this.
B-word. Ratfink jerk. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Hope your OK, and be careful. That's beyond creepy.
Dagonee
Posted by lcarus (Member # 4395) on :
Many apartments won't let you get a deadbolt. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Oh, Kat, how awful and frightening!! I'm glad you're okay. You handled the situation perfectly.
Did you ask the police about a restraining order? Maybe that's something you should look into.
Also, maybe you should consider keeping some sort of weapon in the house. If not a gun, then how about a tazer or pepper spray?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
B word?
I'm sorry something like that happened to you... I don't know what I'd do if someone did that... especially since I live alone myself... They better throw the book at that goon... Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*hugs Kat*
You did the right thing. What a creep! Maybe he's related to the previous occupant of your apartment. Could he be the one who was going through your mail?
AJ
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: He tossed the phone books aside and headed out the door, saying he was confused
How exactly did he say that? Is that all he said? I mean, did he just say "I'm confused" -- or do you remember? That is just really really curious that he said that. I wonder if he's doing drugs or something.
That would totally creep me out. You did exactly the right thing by calling police.
Farmgirl
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Icarus, that's horrid. Nobody should need immediate access to a currently immediately occupied apartment unless it's under circumstances in which breaking down a door or a window would be appropriate.
Katie, I'm so sorry, sweetheart. It isn't fiar that you have to deal with this. At least the police involvement will put an appropriately serious note to the warning.
Deadbolt, one-way front door peephole, and a bit extra on the windows should be mandatory for everybody, not just women who live alone. Man, Katie, I'm spitting acid about this. it's like eating through my desktop.
I swear to goodness, it's a good thing I know some decent and honorable men, or I'd give up on the lot of 'em. I went through this too many times myself to frequin' count. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
(B-word = bastige, or the like. Oooh, I'm feeling pissy.)
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Kat,
He is probably under the delusion that some of his fantasies about you have been real.
Or he may have been sleepwalking and in the middle of a dream. He woke up when you pushed him away.
Keep tabs on what the police find out and like CT said, get a dead bolt. And some mace. And take some self defense classes. I'm not joking.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Kat, I'd suggest finding another apartment, but my experience is that living alone as a woman means you are prey to this pretty much anywhere that you can afford to live. At least you know that your apartment management will take this sort of thing seriously. That being said, the best advice you can probably follow is to trust your gut, and if you can't feel safe there, then find somewhere you can.
You might have to (ah, so unfortunately, because it shouldn't be this way) develop a touch of paranoia to stay "safer." I use the word "safer" deliberately, because it's like "safer sex" -- there are no guarantees. Unfortunately, that means keeping a locked door between you and anyone you don't expressly invite in -- and it means not inviting anyone in without thinking about it carefully first.
[but I don't mean to blame you! I just wish I was there to accidentally lay into him with an iron skillet for you ]
This isn't your fault, not at all. It's just a sucky world that you got born into. There are good and joyous parts, though, and a good number of them can be found in the freedom and peace of living on your own, in your own quiet space. You don't necessarily have to give that up. Remember that even while you set about dealing with this incident.
As you get older, you will get a tougher edge, and predators will back away from that. Sadly, part of what makes you you is a touch of gentleness and vulnerability. (((katharina))) Don't let go of that completely, okay?
[ April 12, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I have a deadbolt. Anyone remember the amusing drama of the deadbolt breaking and locking me inside? The complex fixed the next day or so, and I always lock it as soon as I walk in the door whenever I am home. I live on the third floor and there's not an easy way to climb the walls, so I'm not really worried about the windows. I do lock the deadbolt on the door to the balcony at all times.
The confused remark was weird to me, too. All I can think is that the translator in his brain turned the occasional "Hello" on the stairs into "I want you."
I'm not going to get a gun, but mace or something on my key chain is a good idea. Also, if someone is at the door, no more leaving the door open while I get something out of my apartment. And my instincts did say leaving the door open might be a bad idea, but I was trying to be polite. That was my mistake.
*hugs everyone, especially CT* It DOES suck that this happened, and I have no doubt that if there was a man around it wouldn't have, but it turned out okay. Hopefully the visit by the police will scare the crap out of him. The officer did say that it was a Class C assault if I wanted to pursue it. I'll see if anything happens.
Man, I love living in a country and a time where I CAN call the police over this and not get blown off. Yay!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm with CT on this--I'm furious about it. I'm glad that the guy was at least easy enough to get rid of, but WTF? What a scum bag!
It sounds like you handled things fairly well, but...::shudder::
I don't know what to say on the "I was confused" comment--what, is the question "white pages or yellow" is a come on where he's from?
Does this guy seem slow?
If you don't already have a deadbolt, do get one. If you've got one, and you didn't before, start using it. Also, definitely get a pepper spray thingie for your keychain.
((kat))
What's the story on the creepy watching from the balcony thing? If you related that here I must have missed it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The watching from the balcony thing is that he lives with a family (a family! which explains some of the defenses being a little down) downstairs, and all four members of that family (this man, about forty, a woman, about that age, and two pre-teens) watch me whenever I go by. I thought it was because of the whole "Please don't walk around, we can hear you." complaints from when I first moved in, so I didn't pay much attention.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
The family watches you!? Creepy! Unless its just cause they don't have a TV and yours is in plain view.
But... Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Jeez-o-pete.
What would I do, given that information? I'd find out from the police how long I had to press charges. Hopefully, it's like two years or so.
Then, I'd square up my courage and knock on his door. I'd have the apartment management or a representative come with me, too, if I couldn't get a police officer to come. (The latter would be better, but might not be practical.)
I'd look him square in the eye and say, "Look. I don't give a damn why you did what you did. Anytime you put your hands on me, for any reason, it is assault, and I could have pressed charges on you for it this time. The police know about it. The management knows about it. If anything ever happens like this again -- if you look at me cross-eyed, or if anything of mine gets touched or disturbed in any way, or if I get any anonymous notes -- those charges are going to go through.
Do you understand? If I am made unhappy by anybody in my life, I will carry through against you, whether I can prove it was you or not. I don't have to prove anything new. I have [a year] to press charges for this incident, so you better hope I stay happy here.
You are not allowed to speak to me, or contact me IN ANY WAY. Do you understand?
Good. I'm sending you a notarized letter to that effect. I hope we never interact again."
--------------------------- By the way, I'd never beard the lion in his den without 1) an "official" representative with me, and 2) the police already being involved. But thankfully, bullies and predators tend to back down from complicated situations. they like people who are afraid and polite.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Katie:
The self defense/martial arts classes will not only make you capable of defending yourself in such a situation, it will make you a less likely target, because they talk about how to get that edge that makes you appear to be too much of a problem to be worth it to scumbags.
And pursue the charges. Not because you hate the guy, or want revenge, but because he needs a clear message that such behavior is unacceptable on every level. If he has never done anything wrong, this is a wakeup call. If he is a thorough scumbag, he probably has a record. But by your description of the creepy family, you will have to gauge how things develop once you do file charges. Talk to the police and find out if it would continue to be a dangerous situation for you. If it is, you may be able to get victim's reparation for the cost of moving.
Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
(((kat)))
Have I mentioned before that I knew a guy on my mission that was a hit-man. This was just the sort of jobs he took.
And why should you move. See if the complex will evict him or force him to go to another part of the complex. If not, see if you can switch to another unit in the complex away from Creepo-man.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!
added: Yeah, and all that stuff CT just said. I wouldn't just threaten, though, I'd press those charges forthwith.
[ April 12, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: peterh ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
CT is wise. I think I'd do exactly that. It should hopefully stop the direct staring stuff too.
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
kat, I'm so sorry! If there is some crazy rule about not getting a deadbolt, perhaps telling your landlord about this incident will change that for you.
I am assuming that he didn't *really* need that phone book, he was just looking for an excuse to get close to you. Sure makes one less trusting of strangers!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That's a very good idea, CT. I'm going to wait a couple of days for the police to catch him at home, call, and then do that.
I don't think... I think he came with nefarious purposes, but I don't think he planned on using force. The cynical side of me, the part that knows that sometimes "romantic" attentions are used as a way of asserting power, suspects that it was partly in response to me blowing off his requests that I stop walking around in my apartment. If that's the case, since this happens, he DOES need to be on the receiving of a show of force so he does not consider me a target anymore. I think I'll do what you recommend.
I have taken self-defense classes before - I know what you mean about attitude. There's a toughness (ravenous bird-of-prey ) inside me, and she comes out when I need her. As soon as I got the inkling of what he was doing, he got a punch in the stomach, and he then ran for the door.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Kat,
good to hear you are ok. Agreed, very freaky that this happened. If you are interested in self defense, I know a very good, and inexpensive instructor.
Good job handling the situation so far. being too stunned to react is one of the easier ways to make these situations much worse and you should be applauded for not hesitating to assert your territory.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
The "I'm confused" comment just seems so bizarre. And makes the situation that much creepier. Like someone else said, it sounds like he started to believe his fantasies involving you were true.
Just a side note on self defence courses. I also think they're a great idea, and they do make you a less likely target in the sense that you start to carry yourself differently. But, odds are they won't help you if someone does attack you. There isn't a lot you can do when jumped by someone 50-100 pounds heavier than you. The best defence will always be of the kind CT is saying.
I'm glad you're Ok. This is something like the 5th woman I know who's been attacked in the past 2 weeks. I guess it's something about spring?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'm a little leery of CT's suggestion, and I'm not quite sure why yet. I think it's because its eficacy is conditional on the fact that the same thing that motivates him is the same types of things that motivate "normal people." And if we know one thing about the guy, it's that he doesn't have the normal perspective on socially acceptable actions and relevant costs.
Further, the criminal charges, if any, aren't that severe. At best it's simple misdemeanor assault. So given he's already shown that things that would deter behavior in most people don't deter it in him, a weak criminal charge would likely not discourage him.
Worst case might be if he's convicted and given a fine or community service. He'll be emboldened because the only threat against him has been found to be toothless.
It might be far better to just press charges, with no conditions. Then it's the system against him, not Kat.
Immediate steps you must take:
Deadbolt and window security (drilled-through bolts if the windows are wood).
Follow up with the police. At minimum they must interview the guy. Find out the time limit on pressing charges as CT suggests.
I'll ponde this some more...
Dagonee
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I'm glad you're okay. Just reading your post made me shake.
I also like CT's suggestion.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
quote:I have taken self-defense classes before - I know what you mean about attitude. There's a toughness (ravenous bird-of-prey ) inside me, and she comes out when I need her.
That totally made me think of Rose is Rose. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Pressing charges would be great, but there's the issue of having (possibly) to live near these people, still. There's also the issue of putting yourself at risk for retribution. It's a fine line to walk.
If you press charges and give him a record (if he doesn't already have one), he might feel he has nothing left to lose. Why not take it out on you, anonymously? Slashed tires, creepy looks, whatnot. People can be weird that way. At least with the threat of charges, he has a vested interest in toeing the line around you. I'm sad to say that I'm hoping this means he will attach onto some other woman instead, since you are too much of a hassle.
--------------------------------------[tangent] But any further involvement at all, even just living there, can be an incentive. I've heard back from a stalker like 5 years later (he wrote me c/o my mother, since he knew my maiden name and the state I grew up in -- it's an uncommon name). This all because he happened to run my name on a websearch and found out where I was going to school, which happened to be in the same state (IL) in which he owned some land.
I went unlisted in the public and school phonebooks, too, although I somehow got listed on the webpage for my degree program. One of many reasons I took my mother's maiden name for my license and practice. Less likely to trigger some damnfool's memory of "my sweet face."
-------------------------------------[/tangent]
I'm of the persuasion that it's a good idea to make yourself as physically secure as possible (mace, locks, and self-defense classes are all great ideas, and Amka's right about "the edge" -- though you stood up for yourself magnificently. Sometimes women can't bring themselves to hit, even in defense, without a lot of practice. Go, Katie!)
And then, overwhelming show of psychological force. Get in his face -- he won't expect that -- and draw the lines unambiguously, so he can't claim to be "confused" again. This type of guy will rationalize anything he wants to himself, if he can.
Gee whiz, girl. (((kat))) Take care of yourself and trust your gut. No more "good girl": it sets a bad example for the other young women who need to be "safer," too. Teach 'em where to kick and how to sue, instead. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
kat, think of the next woman he may do this to and press charges pronto. If this is a one time thing for him, it hopefully won't hurt him too bad. But what if it isn't? This thing is a crime for a reason.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
T_Smith: *laugh* Yes, I'm pretty sure she wears a leather jacket, ripped black jeans, and a KMFDM t-shirt, along with too much black eye liner. Not that I own that outfit. *looks innocent*
CT: I agree with you. I don't want to move, I don't want to be watched, and I DEFINITELY don't want to feel not-safe. This is my home, and no one is running me out. He used to harass me about the foot noises until I told him that if he wanted to complain, do it through official channels, but I was not going to be afraid to move in my apartment and his pestering was rude. And he quit - that was it. I think being confronted will make him back down here, too.
[ April 12, 2004, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
BtL--
it depends on your level of training and what you are willing to do... but most of all, when you do it: you'll note Katie didn't wait for the guy to wrap her up and get a good grip on her... she punched him in the stomach as soon as she felt threatened.
Timing is everything.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Yeah, CT, that is a fantastic idea. I think that would go much farther to defusing the problem than to simply charge him.
And now that I think about it, my dad actually did this for me once. My family had gone somewhere else and let me stay home. An old boyfriend who seemed confused about the point that "I didn't want to be his girlfriend at all" started prank calling me that night. Then he decided to do some pranks at my house. During the course of his creeping around, he discovered that I was, in fact, home alone. He broke in talk to me. I've never been so thankful in my life for my parents to come home at that time.
This guy had never done anything so stupid or criminal before, and seemed to have just gotten carried away. So my dad gave the ultimatum that if the ex bf talked to me, or approached me, or blinked at me funny, we would file charges.
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
{{{{Kat}}}}
I am so glad you prefaced this thread that you are fine. I am so sorry that it happened. What a creep. No one has a right to come into your home if you don't invite them first, and an open door shouldn't be implicit of that. Only if you had said something about coming in or there was a written consent should anyone be allowed in, unless, like others have pointed out, there is a desparate need like an emergency.
The whole situation just sends a shiver up and down my spine. I am glad you have a working deadbolt. Maybe you can get one of those brace sticks like a "club" but for your door instead of your steering wheel. At least it could double for a kneecap breaker if it doesn't stop unlawful entry.
About his family, I wonder what they'll think about this. I mean the police would have had to have gone over and spoken to him. At least, I think they would have. That sort of thing is hard to explain.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Dag, I am more than happy to defer to you on all things legal. I'm serious, I know my limits.
Having had a few experiences of harrassment, though, I think it's better to keep ahold of the upper hand. If she presses charges, it will be seen as her, not the system (I think). And if the charges get dropped or dismissed, then she has to deal with his perception of having "beaten" her.
I used to think this meant just tucking tail and running would be the best strategy. Remove yourself from the situation. But that didn't work, either.
This way, though, he knows that the police will finger him if anything happens to her, and hopefully he'll be uncomfortable enough to move out on his own. It's a shame that the complex probably couldn't kick him out unwillingly even if the charges stuck. (Could they? You'd know much better than me.) <---- *********honest lawyerly question, Dag, please help! **********
I'm reminded of the time I rented a house with some other grad students from the church next door in Urbana-Champaign. Me, some women I'd known for years, and a very passive young scrawny vegetarian guy who sold plasma to support his art school tuition. He was our token guy. His girlfriend, who looked like a Betty Boop dominatrix, kept him on a pretty tight rein ( ), although just having the Y chromosome in the house seemed to ward off most predators.
You'd think we'd be safe, right? Like I'd finally made some good choices?
Well, that would be before the church rented out the coach house next door ... to a guy .. who we later saw was wearing an ankle cuff ... and who asked us to give our phone number to his parole officer, as he needed to give a contact.
Yep, we went online and found out that he was a registered sex offender. Hopefully reformed, but we didn't lend him a key to the house to use the laudry, as we had the last coach house occupant.
Sometimes running away merely makes it worse. And, to be fair, he had every right to rent a place without disclosing his status in advance. It just naturally creeped me out.
[ April 12, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Dang, CT, you've been through a lot. I guess the sweetness and kindness and general fabulous humanbeingness that comes from you gets seen by those who shouldn't, as well. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
How sweet!
I've learned to turn b**** on a dime, though. When I need to, I can scare people, whether for my own protection or for that of my patients.
(I will also show a little leg to get my patients in to see somebody or get a procedure faster if need be, but with the understanding gleam-in-the-eye that should I get hassled, I'll bite down and rip 'em off. It's a cutthroat world, and you gotta develop as many skills as you can. Still, though, it's worth it to be strong and happy.)
Go, Katie! Go, Katie! Go, Katie!
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
(((((Kat))))) I'm sorry. I've know this kind of stories once, when the guy I was working with in university (I hadn't chosen him) started to follow me at my home when I had told him to go and phoned in the middle of the night. I was so frightened I didn't know what to do. Finally he has been fired from the university (I don't know why) and I never heard of him again.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Yikes!
Oh my goodness, that is so scary!
I admire you being willing to say it's your home and no one is running you out of it.
We had a somewhat similar experience at the house we used to own, not nearly as scary because he was never in the house, but this guy across the street was, well, crazy. He began sending all kinds of bizarro letters, and referenced me in several of them.
Wes and I were interviewed by the FBI because he also threatened a federal judge. That's what finally got him landed in jail. But, he was only there about a month, and then he was back, sending the letters. We coulnd't do much about them because they weren't actual threats, just disturbing ramblings. He was very paranoid and he thought Wes was spying on him for the government because he was a firefighter.
I hope you never have any dealings with this guy again! I'm glad you called the police, I would not hesitate to call them again if anything else happens.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
First, glad your ok.
Second, I think CT's suggestions are wonderful and just want to emphasise that if you do go knocking on his door, take a witness.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote: Kat, I'd suggest finding another apartment
I hate the idea that it is felt that a woman might have to uproot her life and move because some sick guy is horny. Just makes me boil.
Before that happens, let me come down there and take a pass at him. I'll make the point in a way he'll understand. Very politely. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:it's worth it to be strong and happy.
Yes! I completely agree.
I would like to be that sweetness and light and innocent thang, naturally. I have a tendency to hero-worship and not-quite-in-this-worldness that would certainly enjoy a world where the don't-mess-with-me thing wasn't necessary. On the other hand, I have to admit I enjoy the independence of knowing I can take care of myself. Eventually, just about everyone has to.
But that's part of the social contract - being a Nice Girl at all times is only possible in a world Being Tough As Hell is never needed. We don't live in that world. Like in Gone With The Wind - Scarlett was a wench, but she was also tough and the only one holding things together. She went against everything her mother taught her, but what her mother taught her didn't give her the tools she needed to take care of her and hers in the world she came to inhabit.
---
This sounds very dramatic, but I have to admit that inner tough girl first made her curtsey at age one and a half. My dad still tells stories.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I know you're tough as nails, katharina. I see you clearly. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I have to admit my favorite people are those around whom I don't need it. Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
Kat,
I am so glad you are safe and were brave enough to involve the police and manager. Thank goodness. I wonder if he was confused at your lack of desire or what he was doing. Either way, I like the mace idea. See if you can get a big one with spikes...lol
((Kat))
Police records are open to the public. I would see if he has a history.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
kat, I'm glad you're okay. And I'm glad you're dealing with it in such a deliberate and intelligent fashion.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I'm glad you're okay. And I'm glad you reported the jerk.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
(((((((Kat)))))))
You rock.
Hobbes Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Kat, my sympathies and my respect.
My sympathies because this creep is in your life.
My respect because, wow-woman, you did everything just about perfectly right.
Please take care of yourself.
However, besides telling the Manager, you may want word of what happened to you to get out to your neighbors. He has learned that you are not to be messed with, but there are others who may hesitate, may not know what to do, may find themselves far worse than you did.
Let them know what happened. Next time he tries to borrow a Phone Book, the woman will keep him waiting outside.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
It can be hard to speak back, especially if you are scared. I still remind myself to "Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes." The very act of saying "I am mad" or "I don't trust you" is a very powerful thing, even if the words quaver in your throat.
katharina, don't forget to give us an update. I'll be thinking about you.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Hmm, I think my last post was misleading - I'm not advocating defintely pressing charges. I just think that threatening, pressing charges, and having them fall flat would be worse than pressing them immediately and having them fall flat. The dangers of the the threat are two-fold: First, it makes any charge-pressing personal, done by Kat, instead of the faceless system correcting him for inappropriate behavior. Second, once a threat is fired and found wanting, it can embolden him.
Police don't understand the reason threats don't work against stalkers. Their job is to catch criminals; criminals want to not be caught. Someone with a record of harassing you will be easy to catch if something happens to you, so in a cop's mind no one normal crook would do anything after his threats are on record. The problem is, this guy is not a normal crook. He is motivated by different things.
By the way, don't be surprised if this jerk presses charges against you. It would be bogus and have no chance of winning, but it would be his attempt to make you look like you overreacted. Which you didn't. If he does this, don't let it phase you at all, or make you second guess your decision to use force this morning. You will need to get a lawyer if he does that, though.
The key thing to remember is no one in the entire world knows more about this situation than you. You know the whole history, and your intuition has been informed by a million signals you haven't consciously processed yet. Your intuition served you well this morning and will do so in the future. The advice on this board should be used to further inform your intuition. If any of the advice seems bad to you, don't follow it.
If you ultimately decide to threaten first, take a cop with you (they will go, if you make the right noise). If you decide to press charges immediately, stand firm in your decision. If you decide to do nothing official once the police have interviewed him, know that you can count on yourself to keep safe. Trust your intuition, and let no one gainsay it.
Dagonee Edit: By the way, this is the situation I think big-brother justice should be allowed in. Not Orwell Big Brother. Real big brother. I'm sure there's a couple dozen people who'd be happy to lend a hand in that department.
[ April 12, 2004, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Yeah. What he said about trusting yourself.
(And one last thought -- write out what happened in as much detail as possible. You have a good start here. Anything else you can add, while the memory is fresh? A written record is important, both for documentation and to keep the memory fresher if you should need it.)
Dag, a Hatrack Goon Squad? Put Slash in charge, and fill the ranks with righteous men who carry the Wrath of the Lord in their eyes. Mind you, I'm not for vigilante justice, just a bit of a reminder to walk straight.
(don' mess wi' her, ors yah get Burninated, if ya knows whats I mean. *tough guys look )
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
*Best Christopher Walken voice:
"You're talking to my girl all wrong. Your tone - it's all wrong."
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I love Christopher Walken.
He is deadly sexy, and more importantly, terribly interesting.
*adds Walken to the dinner-guest list
*becomes a Daghead
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
If we really want to go there, I have a brute squad in my back pocket... and they're all local here.
[ April 12, 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I volunteer for the hatrack good squad. I can take 'im.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
It's a transitory thing, Dagonee. Bears repeating sometimes, that's all. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Kat, this makes me so angry I'm shaking. Yes, it's because you are a female alone. Because you are beautiful and kind and polite. This puts me into a cold fury.
You know, skeet shooting is a lovely sport. You get outdoors and develop a nice skill and as it happens, any creepy people in the area will see you going back and forth with your delicate filigreed SHOTGUN, and perhaps when this man saw it he would understand that he has made a serious, serious mistake and needs to do some deep soul searching about his view of life.
The only thing worse would be if you told your father and he blamed you, as happened to a friend of mine. Fury. I am filled with fury about this. You did everything right, dear one, but don't count on the police or anyone else to keep you safe from this point. You keep your own self safe by being perfectly willing to maim or kill if he so much as breathes on you again. If you have no interest in a shotgun, then perhaps I can interest you in a nice stout walking stick? He needs a visible tokan that you are more powerful than he. It wouldn't hurt for him to feel utter quaking terror a little bit, either. Let him understand and get to live with that feeling himself for a while. It is instructive to his sort.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I love you, Anne Kate. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*hugs Anne Kate* It's freaky, huh. I am going to make sure he knows it is completely unnacceptable.
...
I am NOT moving, but I may park on the other side of the building. That way, they can't see me from their balcony. Is that running away? Maybe a little... *thinks*
I was fine this morning. My hands were shaking, but I was more mad than anything. I think the creepiness is just now kicking in, because I have to go home tonight, and I don't want to all of a sudden.
[ April 12, 2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
There's some paranoid people on this thread...
Forget maiming and killing and trying to intimidate the guy. That sort of thinking inevitably is just going to cause you unnecessary trouble.
You've already clearly warned him, made him run off, and made the authorities aware. Make sure he knows the police and the manager know about the incident. I suspect for most people that will end it. He may have been confused, but he won't be now. If he does try something, he should have no excuse whatsoever any more.
All I'd do beyond that is avoid being alone with the guy in any circumstance, and any situation where he could hurt you. He should be on your personal equivalent to the no-fly list.
[ April 12, 2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
With all due respect, Tres, I used to think that way, too. Exactly that way. I don't anymore.
*shrug Personal experiences changed my view. On the other hand, katharina needs all the good minds she can get, so I'm glad for your point of view.
(I'll just never underestimate my own gut again.)
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
There's something very intimidating about the shotgun, even more so than deadlier weapons. Pump shotguns probably make the scariest man-made sound on Earth. And the double barrel breech loading kind (like those used in traditional skeet shooting) are visually very disturbing.
But, and this is key, never rely on a gun for self-protection unless you're willing to kill. And never draw or point one unless you're willing to kill in that situation.
If used as a bluff, and the bluff is called, you're worse off than if you just tried to fight or run.
Dagonee
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Goodness, Katie! That is Horrible. The advice here has been good, and I know I've come late to this little party, but ... whoa! Just had to let you know I care about you, and want you to be safe.
((((katharina))))
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Very important and good call, Dag.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
I still think you need to go to the police station and see if he has a record.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Ready for a bit of fluff?
A gun bluff that worked.
My father has a friend who would fit perfectly out on the range. He is tall and lean and grisled. He's had a tough life and wears a tough skin to match it.
Among his many skills, from whittling humours charcters to making quality tables out of old wagon wheels, this friend is a gun smith.
One day, my father's boss decided he needed his gun fixed. It was a shotgun belonging to an ancestor. It hadn't gotten any use in ten years, so he asked our my father to have his friend fix it for resale.
My father's friend picked up the gun at my fathers work, in one of the less friendly parts of town. While the gun was complete on the outside, it had several missing pieces and was mostly rusted. This friend set it in the seat of his pickup truck and headed home.
At the first stop light a strange man walked up to his truck, opened the passenger side door, and started to get in. Just like that. What his plans were--car jacking? begging for a ride? mistaken identity? my father's friend didn't ask.
He simply raised the old shot gun to eye level of the stranger entering his cab.
The stranger looked down the barrel of the gun and froze. Then he flashed a dirty toothed smile as he very slowly and deliberately backed out of the truck and gently closed the door.
The light changed and my father's friend drove off.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:I still think you need to go to the police station and see if he has a record.
He won't, if the last person he did this to made the same decision most are giving kat. Just an observation. Not intending to heavy hand it.
The only useful advice I have is as a former apartment manager. If anything else does happen, think first if it might have been the young kids. We had a tenant that was reported for parking on the laws by another tenant (also a single woman) and the kids wrote her a threatening note (reminiscent of Ralphie's link of power, only not in any way amusing). It really frightened the single woman. The creepy family moved, but so did the woman shortly thereafter.
[ April 12, 2004, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
pooka, wouldn't they keep a record of the complaint itself (her having made a report to the police), or would there only be a record if charges were filed, too? In my mind, I was distinguishing the two, and I assumed that the documentation would be separate, although present in both cases.
It's an important thing to know, regardless of what she does.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
That story warms the cockles of my heart, Dan...
but to be clear (because guns are the last thing you want to be unclear about) I'm pretty sure what Dag meant is that if you pull a working gun on someone and are unwilling, for any reason, to use it, you will likely find it used on you.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yes, you need to be 100% willing to use it, if necessary. But having it and being willing to use it mean that it's probably not going to be necessary.
Tres, it's very sweet that you think that way. I fervently hope that you never have to lose that innocence. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yes Jim and ak, that's exactly what I meant.
But Dan's story is very cool, nonetheless.
Dagonee
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:With all due respect, Tres, I used to think that way, too. Exactly that way. I don't anymore.
*shrug Personal experiences changed my view.
Personal experiences have set my view as well - too many friends messing things up with extreme responses to fears. It's all too often a case of overestimating the liklihood of the worst case scenario, and underestimating the cost of the measures being taken to prevent that worst case - measures that often provide only an extremely slight benefit (like owning a gun) or may even make the situation worse. Often it is their own personal experiences that create the fear - something in the past that they fear will happen again, or something that happened to some friend (which they will usually recount to justify whatever extremes it is they are taking) - things that may be extremely unlikely, but are remembered much longer than all the times that the worst case did not happen. They call everything but paranoia naive - and end up really hurting themselves as a result.
I've seen it work just like that so many times it's not even funny. I wish more people would learn this lesson, but I think "personal experiences" lead many into a trap of thinking fear should be followed to it's extreme end.
(See Iraq War for another example. )
[ April 12, 2004, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
I din't mean to see if he had a record of complaints, but to check to see if he has any attemted rape or assault charges. He probably doesn't, but it wouldn't hurt to verify.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
But if we lack confidence that filing charges in this case wouldn't stick to the guy, why would a past of complaints matter? (I'm trying to keep this real here, not just forcing an argument.)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I'm in the same spirit, pooka.
Would a past history of complaints be helpful in, say, ensuring the police to take future incidents seriously? That is, if a woman came out of nowhere to make a complaint (or even a charge) against this guy, would she have an easier time making a case with the police and others?
I'd bet it's not admissible in a criminal case, though probably in a civil case. I'm just guessing. (Dag?)
Tresopax: I agree that it is important to evaluate both opinions and claims of fact in the entire context in which they are given. Excellent point. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
pooka - even if he was acquited, the complaints would still exist. Even here, he would likely be convicted, just of a misdemeanor. The minimal consequences of conviction stem from the nature of the charge, not the likelihood of conviction. Knowing about the complaints helps Kat judge the threat level.
Dagonee
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Nope, the mere fact a complaint was filed in an unrelated incident wouldn't be admissible. Even if the original complainant could testify, that might not be admissible. I can't go into more detail because I take that class next semester.
Dagonee
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I think the standards for evidence in civil cases differ; e.g., I think hearsay may be ruled as admissible, unlike in criminal cases (for the most part -- e.g., possibly excepting deathbed accounts, etc?). I am not sure, as this is far out of my depth, but I'll try to look it up.
[ April 12, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Oh, and CT, I love you too! Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Kat, I am so sorry. Be careful!!
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
if you do get mace on your keychain, remember, its not going to do you the least bit of good if its in your purse, or somewhere not in your hand if he bothers you. If you get it, CARRY IT. In your HAND. Otherwise, don't expect the least measure of protection to result from it. And if you have long hair, keep it in some not-easily-grabbed hairstyle. Hair is a great thing to grab. (I got these and many other protection measures drilled into my head during the serial killer thing. They're good to remember)
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
((((Kat))))
You certainly were calm and brave and over all fabulous! I'm not sure I could have done the same.
I guess there is one positive thing to come out of this - that guy tries anyone else, you let Hatrack know, and before you know it there will be a Hatrack army converging on his position.
((((Kat))))
It does make me mad though, that women are made so vulnerable just because we're women. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Kat, here is another story for ya.
I have a friend who was traveling across the country to visit her husband stationed on the East Coast. At a certain gas station, she felt strongly impressed to buy a baseball bat. That night, she came in late to a hotel. The hotel manager was very *friendly* offering to carry her bags in for her. She politely turned down his offer. More than once he brought up excuses to escort her to her room. She declined again.
She found her bedsheets to be dirty and called for hotel service to bring her fresh sheets. Who should show up at her door but the hotel manager. He came in and lingered, trying to make conversation, standing very close to her. Her newly purchased baseball bat was not far in the corner, and she glanced at it. He saw what she was looking at, backed away, and left the room.
Eh, take it how you will. A baseball bat would be nice to have, but supposedly any weapon you have can be used against you also. Posted by victoria (Member # 6450) on :
Hi--delurking to suggest you read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin deBecker. His main point in keeping yourself safe is that you need to honor your instincts in all cases.
He also wrote a great book about keeping children safe titled "Protecting the Gift."
I'm sorry that happened to you but glad it didn't turn out worse.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
In the state of Texas, if you are carrying a baseball bat and not headed to practice or a game, you will be arrested for carrying a weapon.
Ironic but true. You can walk down the street with a loaded shotgun... if you are going to a skeet range. You can't walk down the street with a stick larger than a certain size (I want to say 14 inches) unless you can show a specific, immediate, non-weapon, use for it.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Katie, I'm so glad that you're ok after this.
And I'm bumping this for the sake of my car theft dobie. Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Tres, it's very sweet that you think that way. I fervently hope that you never have to lose that innocence.
Nobody HAS to surrender to their fears, though. In fact, even if you have already "lost your innocence," as you put it, I think you can get it back by resisting things like the urge to protect yourself absolutely from everything. Things like traumas can push you to give in, but I believe people can resist effectively, especially if helped by friends.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Tres,
Why does the need to protect one's self need to be resisted? Are you suggesting that it is paranoid for a woman to know how to defend herself? I'd really like to know what is so wrong or paranoid about Kat (or anyone) taking steps to protect themselves against this or other kinds of assault, which are all too real in the world we inhabit. Spending a couple of nights a week learning to fight, or safely own, care for, and shoot a firearm is immediately going to turn a person into Batman.
I'd turn the question back on you-- what is it that *you* are so afraid of?
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
There is nothing at all wrong with being safe, or taking precautions, or learning to protect oneself. But there IS something wrong with taking fear and precaution to the extreme - doing things like moving, carrying a gun, or worrying yourself silly that do more to harm and endanger you more than protect you. What *I* am afraid of is that, if katharina (or others) really took some of this advice seriously, she'd hurt herself or others and place herself in unnecessary risk. I've seen that happen often, in reaction to things far lesser than this.
[ April 13, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Which advice besides the shotgun falls under that description? It seems to me people have offered pretty good advice.
There is good fear and bad fear. Worry is never productive, but taking simple precautions can be.
A lot of people get hurt because someone told them they were "overreacting" to an intuitive fear.
Dagonee
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yes, again and again the police, the courts, people's families, society as a whole, will tell women, "you're overreacting, you're the problem, don't make waves, there's nothing we can do, oh poor guy, it's not his fault, anyone can make a mistake," etc.
Girls are constantly assaulted and killed. It happens with great frequency. Most college campuses have one or two a year that make the news, and several that don't. Most large cities have dozens a year. How many is acceptable before it would be okay in your mind for women to use force in response?
Women should not rely on anyone other than themselves to keep them safe. Historically, that just doesn't work. Given that the risk is real, which lives are we more comfortable putting at risk?
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Well, aside from the shotgun, I think the "big brother justice" ideas and mess-with-the-guy-to-intimidate him ideas are the sorts of things that are likely to lead to more trouble than protection. I'd also be very wary of the more general notion that she should change her personality in any way to be "tougher".
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I thought it was pretty clear that the big brother idea was mostly a joke. In case anyone didn't take it that way, I'll reiterate - the vigilante justice is bad. OK?
As for becoming tougher, it depends on what she means by that. If it means not buying into societal ideals that women are supposed to want everyone to like them, then I think it's a good thing.
Dagonee
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm not accepting that I'm "overreacting" and need to be understanding. A stranger has been watching me and entered my apartment without permission and put his hands on me. This is not acceptable behavior. This is my home and I have the right to be and feel safe in it. The danger is not something imagined; it HAPPENED.
You can say that protecting myself is over the top when you can guaruntee my safety. Social contract - you want the women to be calm and polite, you make damn sure they never suffer evil consequences from it. I've been polite, and someone took it as permission to invade my privacy and endanger my person.
I'm not going to get a gun. I refuse to shoot someone, so there's no point. I will get pepper spray or something, and I'll do whatever it takes to make sure he knows that even blinking in my direction is completely unacceptable.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Watch out with pepper spray, if you're forced to use it inside your home then you really will have to move out (trust me on this, I've used it before and you don't want to be anywhere around it even if it's pointed the other direction). Is there any other non-violent type weapon that's possible?
Hobbes Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, maybe. I'm not relying on that, though. I think the police officer saying "Don't mess with her." will be more effective.
-----
You know what the saddest part of this is? I didn't want to be wary of my neighbors...
I live in a nice apartment in a sketchy part of town, but my apartment complex is mostly families. I KNOW that's why defenses were down enough to leave the door open. I remember the thought crossing my mind that he's got a teenage daughter, and I didn't want to be the Anglo princess. So, I was polite. Apparently that was "confusing."
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
a cattle prod (seriously) or tazer, I s'pose...
but, in case anyone hasn't been able to tell, I think the idea of non-violent, or even "measured response" reactions against violent people are not effective.
[ April 13, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Has anyone brought up moving out of the complex?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm not moving. If anyone is moving, it is the person threatening me. He isn't even on the lease.
It's not my responsibility to run. I'm not wearing a chador to prevent men from getting evil thoughts from seeing my uncovered head, and I'm not moving out of my complex because the father downstairs can't imagine that the single girl upstairs isn't looking for him.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Yes, again and again the police, the courts, people's families, society as a whole, will tell women, "you're overreacting, you're the problem, don't make waves, there's nothing we can do, oh poor guy, it's not his fault, anyone can make a mistake," etc.
This just isn't true. A few say this, but the overwhelming message is exactly the opposite.
quote:Girls are constantly assaulted and killed. It happens with great frequency. Most college campuses have one or two a year that make the news, and several that don't. Most large cities have dozens a year. How many is acceptable before it would be okay in your mind for women to use force in response?
It's not a matter of "acceptable." It's a matter of what is the wise course of action for the woman in question. It's a wise course of action to carry a gun around when the costs and risks you bring upon yourself by having it are less than the degree to which is helps you, and it is not smart when the costs are greater than the benefits.
When the sniper was attacking in my area, dozens were killed in a matter of weeks. Some would not allow their kids to go to school. Did that protect them from a potentially terrible attack? To some extent. But when you consider the extremely low liklihood of that kid being attacked at that moment, even with all those attacks across the area, I'd argue that it was not worth the costs of missing school during that period. It's the same idea.
Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
I brought it up storm.
I suggest having the complex at least force him to move to another unit.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:It's not my responsibility to run. I'm not wearing a chador to prevent men from getting evil thoughts from seeing my uncovered head, and I'm not moving out of my complex because the father downstairs can't imagine that the single girl upstairs isn't looking for him.
Exactly - which is what I've been saying. You should feel no compulsion to take on any great burdens to avoid the threat - only measured responses, like not letting the guy in again for any reason.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I do want the police to talk to him, so he does not enter an apartment without permission again - to me or to anyone. Also, to make it clear that harassing me has consequences.
I have made one change - I park on the other side of the building now. When I do that, they can't see me from the balcony. No one will know I'm home until I'm in my apartment and the doors are dead-bolted. I worried for a second if that was running away, but it's not inconvenient to me and the benefits are enormous, so it's okay.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Kat, I'd say that the sanctity of your living space has been irreparably harmed. I couldn't live in an area where I didn't feel safe coming and going from my apartment. I just can't see how one of you is not going to have to leave, and I think the safest thing to do would be for you to leave. That way, he wouldn't know where you are.
You want to fight rather than leave. Is a little wounded pride going to hurt worse than any of the other things that could happen if this guy catches you unawares? Is it worse than not having peace of mind in your apartment? Because that's gone, isn't it? Isn't a little wounded pride worth peace of mind and definite security? I can't see how it isn't.
I happen to disagree that this kind of thing has to happen to single women. I think it's like a lightning strike. You just got unlucky. If you move, I don't think this will happen again.
Anyways. Hope everything works out. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:If you move, I don't think this will happen again.
Why not? I can't afford to live in a fort.
I'm not doing this out of pride, I promise. It's my judgement call. Thank you for your opinion. Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Oh, yeah. Sue your neighbors for whatever you can get, too. At least to conver moving expenses. In my totally ignorant opinion, I think you definitely have a case, and at least you can have the satisfaction of fighting that guy in some capacity. Plus, this creates a record if he tries it again.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
K. Good luck.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Thanks. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
No way! Do you know how expensive and difficult moving is? If anyone must move it is the creepy guy, not kat!
It's definitely true that this can happen anywhere, too. How many times should one have to move? Should all the single women living anywhere near this guy have to move?
[ April 13, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Storm, if the guy had planned to harm her, and gone there with the intention of doing so, (I hate to say this , Katie, but...) she probably would have been harmed. That said, he does seem unbalanced and sends the Olivet Creep-o-Meter pinging like mad, but these extra precautions she's taking should be enough, I think.
Plus, Katie's trusting her own instincts about the situation and the man, and she should have a better feel for the particulars than any of us.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:if the guy had planned to harm her, and gone there with the intention of doing so, (I hate to say this , Katie, but...) she probably would have been harmed.
I completely agree. I think he was creepy, but if he was actually looking to harm me, he wouldn't have left the door open when he came in, and he wouldn't have run so easily. The "confused" remark was irritating (because of the apparently-Hello-means-I-want-you thing), but telling. He didn't think he'd encounter resistance. When he did, he backed off completely. I'm glad I called the police and I still want an officer to talk to him, but I don't feel the need to press charges at the moment.
-------
This is the part I wasn't going to put on the thread...
I think it was a culture thing. This was the office manager's idea. When I told her the basic outlines of the story, she described the specifics almost exactly. Very typical behavior for someone from a specific culture who had a certain impression of a female. The impression was obviously wrong, but it has now been corrected. I honestly don't feel it will be a problem from now on, especially since parking on the other side of the building means I will never see them, and they can't see me.
He's still creepy, and I'm under no obligation to be accommodating to the cultural expectations, but I really think what has occurred will take care of it. If there is anything more that is a problem, he's not on the lease and can be asked to leave.
[ April 13, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
O.K. But everyone sees that I'm speaking from the perspective of what is safest for Kat, right? Do you all really think that she wouldn't probably be safer somewhere else? (I realize Kat's already given her opinion and I respect that. Am just responding to comments after hers.) I'm only giving her the same advice I would give my mom or my step-sister.
edit: Typed above before Kat posted last. Again, I respect Kat's decision.
[ April 13, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Yes, Storm, it was very clear that you are speaking from concern for her safety, I don't think anyone thought anything else.
*thinks it would be great to have Storm looking out for her* Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*hug* Thank you Stormy. And everybody. Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I don't think she would be necessarily safer by moving. There are people like this guy, unfortunately, all over the place.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Storm you have never been a single woman living alone. I have. It doesn't matter where you live. Moving doesn't solve the problem unless you can afford an expensive gated community and even then there may be creeps living inside the gates. Creeps view it as vulnerablity and while probably don't flock to you quite like moths to light it seems to bring out the worst in people you wouldn't expect or even think were creepy normally.
Katie hasn't mentioned in the thread that the guy's name isn't even on the apartment lease. So its kind of hard for the apartment complex to evict him if he isn't on the lease and the lease allows for X number of people in the apartment.
AJ
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Actually, most leases specifically allow for the removal of anyone not on the lease.
Dagonee
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Really. I can't see how him not being on the lease doesn't make it easier for the apartment complex to force him out. If they don't work to kick him out, then the finger of blame can be pointed at them if something bad happens.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: The confused remark was weird to me, too. All I can think is that the translator in his brain turned the occasional "Hello" on the stairs into "I want you."
I'm betting that this guy watches a LOT of porn.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
LOL!
But I think Katie remarked about cultural differences? In some places, making eye contact is an indication of sexual intentions, or at least a woman's openness to the possibility.
She hasn't said where the guy was from or what his cultural background is, so it is at least POSSIBLE that judging this man by average white-American standards is unfair. He may have realized his mistake and that MAY be the end of it. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
"The weirdest thing happened to me today. The pizza lady delivered the pizza, and didn't offer to have sex with me."
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Keep us updated, will you Kat? Just so we know you're okay and all -- and to record with us anything else suspicious this guy does....
I am single, but I live in the middle of nowhere, and I have five large dogs. However, I had still had men catch me off guard with moves similar to this in many other situations...... if they were to start intruding on personal space at home...oh, how unnerving the thought.
Farmgirl
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Dag- My husband has had a couple of women attempt to seduce him when he delivered their pizzas.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Wow.
My mom did have the mail man ask her to teach him voice lessons today. He drives by every day and heard her singing and teaching lessons, so he asked her.
But I don't think we've tried to seduce repairpersons or deliverypersons. Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
I can see the headline now: "Mailman hears siren call; seduced by voice teacher" Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Dag- My husband has had a couple of women attempt to seduce him when he delivered their pizzas.
Damn, I knew I was wasting my time going to law school.
Dagonee
Posted by Vána (Member # 3262) on :
Kat, I know I'm way late finding this thread, but I want to add my voice to those saying how happy we are that you're safe, and I also want to encourage you to follow your gut.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's so, so creepy. Yuck.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
And another sucky sucky sucky part of this is that were you living "under the protection of a man" (brother, father, husband, boyfriend, even just roommate), you'd probably never have to deal with this.![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
You don't necessarily have to give that up. Remember that even while you set about dealing with this incident.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
That was my mistake.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
), although just having the Y chromosome in the house seemed to ward off most predators.![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
Go, Katie! ![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Put Slash in charge, and fill the ranks with righteous men who carry the Wrath of the Lord in their eyes. Mind you, I'm not for vigilante justice, just a bit of a reminder to walk straight.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)