Someone at work was talking about a divorced friend of theirs who is having trouble meeting men. She mentioned that this friend has three kids. I offered my condolences and mentioned that I could see how tough it would be, since a lot of single men won't date a woman with kids. She replied with, "Those men are idiots." I said that, in fact, I would never date a woman with kids, and that I think there are very valid reasons for that. She just gave me a 'look' and left.
So I've been thinking about it. If you were a woman with three kids, why would you even WANT to date a man who sees your three kids as a negative to the relationship? I'd think that if I was a woman in that situation, I would be thinking, "I will only date a man who sees my kids as a bonus."
But this puts me back to my topic. Are people so desperate to meet someone and get into a relationship, that they overlook all such issues and just 'try to make it work'? Or, is it silly to make up your mind ahead of time that certain things are deal breakers?
I can think of lots of things that would immediately make a woman undatable to me.
Kids - I don't want kids. Not even my own. I certainly wouldn't want to play daddy to someone else's kids. And, in my opinion, any woman with kids who was trying to date a man who didn't want kids, is crazy. There are plenty of men who love kids. Go find one of them.
Smoking - I could never date a woman who smoked. She could be Jennifer Connelly's twin sister, and just looking at her carbonated my hormones. But she pulls out that cigarette and lights up, and that would be the end of it.
Vegitarian - As I once heard, 'Dating is 2% sex, and 98% trying to figure out where to eat'. I think there are lifestyle choices that can make people incompatible. I don't want disapproving looks every time I munch a ham sandwich.
So, those are just three, but here are probably dozens more. You people out there in the dating scene, do you have things like this? Or are you open to trying to make anything work?
Don't you think having a reasonable list of items that matter enough to make a relationship impossible is a good thing? That it might keep you from getting into a bad relationship, or keep you from wasting time with people who are definitely not going to work out in the end?
I always wonder this about Mormon girls who date non-Mormons. I always think, "You know you are never going to marry a non-Mormon. You know that non-Mormons expect more of a physical nature from a relationship than you are going to give. Why waste your and his time?"
Maybe it's just the fact that I would rather be alone, than in a bad relationship. Maybe other people are willing to tolerate anything just to have someone.
I'm interested in opinions on this.
Posted by peter the bookie (Member # 3270) on :
Aside from the inherent sexism of only thinking that of Mormon girls, I have to agree with you. I also had a list of 'not to date' rules when I was single. Each of yours and a few more were on it.
Maybe that's why you're such a good rolemodel for me. Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
quote:She could be Jennifer Connelly's twin sister
I've never understood this fascination. My husband thinks she's hot, too. I just don't get it.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
No vegetarians? Well, I guess I'm off Slash's list (I note that "being a man" wasn't on his list though. Makes you wonder...)
And Kayla, you just aren't looking hard enough. Look *past* her clothes.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Slash, you're right, and that person you work with is an idiot. Really. Any single mother would be insane to date or marry someone they know doesn't like kids. Might as well file for divorce right after the marriage ceremony and save some time. Might also start saving money for your kids' therapists.
My husband's second stepfather didn't like kids. I ask myself frequently why in the *world* his mother married a man like that. And what kind of man marries a woman with kids, *knowing* those kids aren't going to just disappear?
Still, there are people so blind. We have a couple in our step-family group that swears they have the perfect marriage, except for this small detail: his son. Not that his son is a real problem. The problem is that the new wife already raised her children and didn't want to raise anymore. More than once I've wanted to get in her face and yell, "Then WHY DID YOU MARRY A MAN WITH A 5 YEAR OLD???"
We all make our mistakes, but geez, I wish people would make mistakes that didn't destroy their children.
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Flawless porcelain skin, finely sculpted features, hazel eyes, raven black hair, slender yet still voluptuous figure...
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
Am I the only guy in the world who doesn't avidly follow the current top 10 of Famous Hot Chicks? I have no idea who this Jennifer what's-her-name is...
And as for dating rules, I have somehow managed to break every one I ever thought of. Sometimes this ends in disaster, and I learned my lessons. Sometimes it just shows me how little I know about both myself and women in general.
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Jennifer is far from a current flash in the pan.
She has been a successful and talented actress for the last 20 years. You have seen her in dozens of movies. Not knowing her name is a crime, though.
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
Sue me. Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
It's the eyes. Those innocent, intense, dreamy eyes. Too bad about the catepillar eyebrows though. Yuck.
How Mormon girls can break up with non-Mormon dudes:
Girl: For THAT to happen, we'll have to be married.
Dude: No problem, I love you.
Girl: When we marry, it is for eternity. We will live in heaven together.
Dude: Yes, I know, I love you.
Girl: mother will be there too...
Dude: See ya!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I would rather be alone than in a bad relationship too.
I do love my flings however.... Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Slash, I have to agree with you. You should have a list of what is acceptable and what is not. I think that a great deal of thought needs to go into that list.
My fiance has two children but didn't want to date anyone with children. He says it is too difficult to blend families and he didn't want to subject his children to that. So, he gets me, who is childless. After his youngest graduates from high school, we'll have our own children. I would not marry him unless he was willing to raise children with me.
Your statement of:
quote:I always wonder this about Mormon girls who date non-Mormons. I always think, "You know you are never going to marry a non-Mormon. You know that non-Mormons expect more of a physical nature from a relationship than you are going to give. Why waste your and his time?"
I've wondered that same thing. But Peter's right, you can apply that to any group of people who are willing to compromise their standards for the sake of being in a relationship.
I look at some of my students and I want to wring their parents' necks. Their parents give no thought to what they are doing to their children when they date carelessly. People forget that when they have children they can no longer think only of their wants and needs.
I admire you for having a standards and sticking by them.
The chick summed it up at the end of the movie "Some Kind of Wonderful, "I'd rather be alone for the right reasons, than with someone for the wrong."
I paraphrased. Unfortunately there was a time when I was not that way. Fortunately, that phase didn't last too long.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
im not bothered by a woman who has kids. I can easily see where guys would be turned off by that, and where woman would be turned off by a man who has kids from a previous relationship, it jsut doenst bother me personally.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Jennifer Connely was in Labyrinth. I'll need to see your geek credentials.
-----
quote:You know that non-Mormons expect more of a physical nature from a relationship than you are going to give.
This isn't always true, in a couple ways. Sometimes they don't expect more, and (often)if they do, the girl doesn't know that they might.
quote:"I'd rather be alone for the right reasons, than with someone for the wrong."
This is ABSOLUTELY true.
[ April 15, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Ok, Odouls, but do you have things that are definite no-nos on your dating list? Or is everything negotiable?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I totally agree with you Slash. My deal breaker is actually something quite trivial to most people, since it isn't actually children. But, the person I'm with has to be able to tolerate my dogs. They don't have to love them, but treat them humanely and understand that if you get me you get the dogs too. Even if we had kids unless one of them was violently allergic I wouldn't give up the dogs. And I'd probably do some experimenting with the kid to see if he was allergic to poodles or terriers before I'd get rid of the dogs.
AJ
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
quote: This isn't always true, in a couple ways. Sometimes they don't expect more, and (often)if they do, the girl doesn't know that they might.
That seems incredibly naive to me. You are walking into it KNOWING that this person does not share the basic core of your moral beliefs. I can't see how anything like this would come as a surprise.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Never underestimate naivete.
---
I agree with you, though. Although I haven't always. Barring some other event (Angel Moroni visit, basically), I'll never marry a non-member, and they usually expect more than I'm willing to give, so there isn't a point in even going on a date with one.
Edit: I keep adding commas. That makes me nervous in the grammar corner of my soul.
[ April 15, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Slash, there are two simple answers to your question:
1) Sometimes, people don't care about an issue as much as they pretend they do. (So that a woman who thinks she'd only want to date vegetarians discovers that she'd rather date someone attractive and funny, regardless of his food preference.)
2) Sometimes, people discover that their opinions change -- and other people know this happens. (So that same woman might try to persuade her meat-loving loverboy to try a little falafel, or cut back on the steak -- or, in an extreme case, assume that somebody who says he doesn't want kids is only speaking out of the side of his mouth and, deep down, really DOES want them; he just doesn't know it yet.)
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
Okay. I looked her up. I have seen her in exactly two movies (Dark City and Hulk), not realizing she was the same actress, nor remembering her name or face, or realizing that there was anything to remember and not remembering that there was anything to realize. She made no impression on me. I will say that she is rather cute, though, but I will probably have forgotten by this time tomorrow.
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Yeah. But to me, that would be like dating a non mormon, then being shocked when he showed up with a cup of starbucks. I mean, the basic rules are fundamentally different. Like a muslim dating a non-muslim then being offended when he showed up with a ham sandwich.
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Tom, that is foolish to me.
That is what lets people get into relationships with the justification "He'll change after we get married." The recipe for misery, in my opinion.
What happens ten years later, when he still doesn't want kids, and she gets pissed? "I never thought you REALLY meant it?" Not taking people at their word is a bad idea. Yes, sometimes people change. But gambling your future on that possibility seems silly and reckless. Especially when there are lots of people out there who wouldn't have to change, because they actually want the things you want.
"I'll change him" just sounds to me like "I am desperate to make this relationship work, no matter what."
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote: "I'll change him" just sounds to me like "I am desperate to make this relationship work, no matter what."
I agree with you.
[ April 15, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Digging_Holes:
What is life like, as a eunuch? Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
I wish I had a single younger brother I could set up with kat. Alas, they're all married.
But I do have this cool cousin in law school . . .
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Well, from personal experience, which did not result in marriage, I thought that if the other person was smart they would naturally want to change to my way of seeing things. I think I was being outright stupid. Bull headed. Arrogant. A bigot by hatrack standards (since along with them "seeing the light" of your way, they have to "realize the error" of how they were raised.)
My husband was vegetarian when we married. I went along for a while, but then quit. But we ate most of our meals his way for about 9 years. His accupuncturist had him go back to meat when he had hernia surgery, and after that he read Body for Life and is mostly okay with meat. Still doesn't like a lot of pork, meat on the bone, or ground beef.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*blush* That's very sweet!
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I made an impossible list of things I wanted in a husband, because I honestly believed I'd never find what I really wanted, but I kept the list to remind me not to settle for less than I really needed. Who I'd date was sort of flexible, though. I wanted smart and reasonably cute. I tended to favor shorties but had nothing in particular against taller guys. I liked geeks.
When Mr. Perfect came along, I spent three years looking for the mand behind the curtain before I'd commit. But Ron was the real deal. *shrug* Who'd thunk it?
Anyway, Ron read an article in a magazine that said single or divorced mothers of sons were significantly more likely to re-marry than divorced or single mothers of daughters. Also, that men whose SO became pregnant were more likely to marry her if it was a a boy she was carrying. That's depressing, though i don't understand why those stats would be that way.
My sister is pretty, divorced, well-employed and has two daughters. The oldest is 21, the youngest is 11 this year. She has had a lot of interest from men, but most of them have been dolts or just after the boing-boingy. She's dropped hints lately that she might consider expanding her search to include alternative lifestyles. Which is fine, if that's really what she wants, but I don't think it is. *sigh*
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I remember that thing about the sons and daughters. I think in addition to what the men may want, mothers of sons may be more motivated.
By the way, anyone read OSC's article about misandry this week? I think the interesting thing he said is that for women to revile men because they have been oppressed is like people who were abused as children turning around and doing it to the next generation.
I think a woman who has been through a divorce and only has daughters may be more inclined to harbor misandry. I hope. Though I see a lot of people being anti-male in front of their little sons and it just breaks my heart.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Oh, I did have a rule not to date non-Christians. I went out with one guy and broke up with him when I discovered that he wasn't a Christian (I was young and sheltered and just sort of assumed he was ).
So, when I went to college at a private and very religious school, I sort of assumed that most of the guys were religious, too. Most of them were. Ron survived the early portion of our relationship by using the Honesty. "I'm a Presbyterian, but you know, I'm really intrigued by Taoist philosophy, which I find to be compatible with the practice of Christianity..."
Gorry, but he was smooth So, yeah. I converted to Heathenism for the perfect man, and have found my life much the better for it.
People DO change their minds, you know. Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
My mom had daughters, and she was divorced for a very short time before marrying a childhood sweetheart. But then, my mom was one of those women who can go out dressed casual and not wearing make-up and turn heads. She always had... presence.
Anyway, I agree about the Misandry in modern culture, and it really bothers me. Maybe that's a topic for another thread. I think a better analogy would be the reverse racism we also see in our culture-- it's okay to hate whites because of past years of slavery. I think both issues are about as prickly.
But that's a discussion for another thread...
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Slash, presumably these stances will change BEFORE marriage, not after. It would be foolish to MARRY someone who hasn't made any concession to something you find you can't overlook, but I don't see why it would preclude someone from dating someone who isn't a "perfect match".
I got turned off on Jennifer Connelly in Dark City, when she had a noticeable moustache. Petty, for sure, but as a result I get a neutral feeling from her.
That all said, it wouldn't stop me from dating her, if only to make all you stalkers jealous
-Bok
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
The "look" was because that woman is no where near defined by just the fact that she's had three kids. You are instantly quantifying that woman based on a single part of her life. Hopefully she will find a man who will appreciate her and not see her only as the mother of three children and that is what she should be looking for. However, because of societal judgement, that will always be the first barrier she will have to overcome in a relationship and I'd imagine it gets pretty daunting.
Granted, I do think that people have their own personal list of sticking points -- they are not the ones that they list when thinking of criteria for dating and I find people who make such lists never date because they are so consumed with finding the perfect match to the list.
Finally, I believe that couples compliment each other and that many couples find that the thing they thought would bother them most about a partner ends up being the thing that keeps them together because it balances out their own personality.
Its silly to make up your mind beforehand because people are not static. They change and grow and develop in their lives. Its the overall relationship that matters, not single-issue sticking points.
Posted by peter the bookie (Member # 3270) on :
It's also silly to expect people to change for you or for you to change for them.
I mean, really, if he wants kids and I don't, what's the point of ever going out? What if I do fall madly in love with him? I'm just making breaking up all the more difficult when our differences become irreconsilible.
Why on Earth would I do that to myself when there are plenty of men out there who meet my criteria?
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Uh...Christy...while there may be a great deal more to a woman than the fact that she has 3 kids, and the person she is underneith the title Mom may be spectacular, her top job and highest priority for responsibility is toward those kids she chose to make. So it seems to me that being identified as "Single mom of 3 kids" is reasonable. Her sparkling, wonderful personality isn't going to undo the fact that she has three children, nor should it.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:There are plenty of men who love kids. Go find one of them.
I think the reason that there are so many women who will give you "the look" when you say things like this is that these guys are--stereotypically speaking, at least--hard to find. It's sort of obvious that looking for someone who would accept your kids and constantly failing would be frustrating. Why keep looking, you ask? There are a lot of people in the world that don't like to be alone, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It can lead to bad decisions if it gets out of hand, though.
quote:The "look" was because that woman is no where near defined by just the fact that she's had three kids.
See, the thing is that some (the common wisdom is many, but I have no real data) people (esp. men) just don't like kids. The exclusion of dating partners who have kids may often have less to do with the fact that the person is judging his potential partner based on her parental status and more to do with the fact that he is judging his potential future lifestyle based on the presence of children. And really, that's pretty valid.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
If anything were to happen to my wife, and I were left a single dad, I don't think I could date at all. Because a woman deserves to have first place in her man's heart-- and I don't think I could love any other woman more than I love my children.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
At this point in my life, kids would be a automatic turn off. I want kids some day, and skipping the diaper stage might not be the worst thing in the world (but they are really cute when they are little). But I’m not even going to consider dating a woman with kids (even if they were any my age) till I’m at least 30. As soon as you start dating, depending on the kid’s age, you become daddy in their eyes, and having so many men come in and out of the child’s life will only add to their list for the therapist to deal with.
As far as dating guidelines go, I try to only date smart, decently groomed, semi-religious girls. Preferably Methodist, Christian of any kind works, and as long as she has some sort of established morals, religious or not, she’s datable. As far as their life styles go, I really don’t care, as long as my changing mine isn’t her top priority. I only look at physical attributes as a tiebreaker between two amazing women.
Stryker (and yes I’m single)
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: Slash, you're right, and that person you work with is an idiot. Really. Any single mother would be insane to date or marry someone they know doesn't like kids. Might as well file for divorce right after the marriage ceremony and save some time. Might also start saving money for your kids' therapists.
In response to both this and Slash's original post, the answer that it it is very hard to find a 'good woman', and even harder when the pool of single women shrinks as you get older; it's not clear when you're dating whether you're dating for marriage or just for right now; most people don't know for sure that they don't want kids if they've never had them; and most women with kids make it perfectly clear that you're not only dating them, but you're dating their kids.
So, you meet this really wonderful person, your true love, your one and only--but she has kids. What do you do? If you're like me, you're pretty sure that you would make a pretty wretched father, but you date them because you don't *know*. Particularly because being a father involves being a father to particular children. Maybe you would suck with some kids but not with others. Surely you've met some children you get along with, but not others?
Well, now you've met miss right, and you put your best foot forward. you don't have to spend much time around the children, if at all, for the first few weeks/months of dating. But when you do meet them, society and your woman want you to step in and be a father. You love your girl and love as a man involves fixing cars, taking out the garbage, fighting off bears and shit, and otherwise doing what your woman wants to make her happy. So, what the hell .Be a dad. Your dad did it. Birds do it. Bees do it. Even educated fleas can do it. How hard can it be. Plus, all the tv shows hold fathers up as the be all, end all of manhood. Be that knight in shining armor, make a difference. So, many pressures on you both socially and personally to step in, and even if you get along with them as 'visiting dad', you still don't know what it's going to be like to spend day after day after day with the children.
And that's why many men become fathers. It's probably in the same ballpark of reasons why many men, people in general, get married when they shouldn't.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I've been told more than once that I look like Jennifer Connely. ^_^
Perhaps your co-worker gave you "that look" because you didn't realize that you aren't interested in having kids period. She may have assumed (assume=bad) that you want to have kids with a woman, but wouldn't be willing to deal with her kids. I can see why that might irritate her. Her friend has probably run into some of that.
Girls do tend to sympathize with their woman friends more than with men. It's all in the "Girl's Pact".
Posted by Lara (Member # 132) on :
I know personally when I was younger I got swept away by the comfort of having a relationship, all standards and decisions aside. Sometimes you just fall in love, and when it happened for the first time for me I didn't really think very far beyond, "Wow, I love this guy." I'm LDS and I've been taught all my life not to date people who can't take me to the temple, but good general advice and decisions I made dispassionately before I'd ever been in love didn't hold up well against the reality of caring a lot about someone and him caring about me. But the relationship didn't work out - because of the very reasons I'd always been taught a realtionship like that wouldn't. I don't know what my point is. I guess just that I understand at least one reason why people try to make illogical relationships work.
[ April 15, 2004, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Lara ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Plus, all the tv shows hold fathers up as the be all, end all of manhood.
Hmm. Interesting. In my opinion, TV fathers are shown as, and are, some of the most despicable creatures put to media.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
You ought to watch Oprah and Dr. Phil more often, then.
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
Speaking from personal experience, when I was about seven, my mother started seeing a man who was divorced. He had two teenage kids who lived with his ex. He didn't really want more kids, but he decided that he would take on the burden of helping raise my brother and I. He demanded that we treat him like our father, something I never did, since I already had a father, and didn't need another--especially one who seemed to consider me a nusiance at best. This led to increasing animosity, and by the time I was ten, his disgust with me was fairly apparent. He would hit me, drag me about by my hair, lock me outside the house, etc. As I got older, he couldn't push me around physically, but we fought incessantly. Now I am 20 and have lived on my own since I was 17, but still, I can't even go home for holidays without getting in some kind of fight. During last Christmas dinner he began shouting angrily at me about the general worthlessness of my life and my unsavory character before taking my drink and throwing it on me. Needless to say, I haven't gone back since then. I can't have a normal relationship with my mother or brother because of him.
I would say that any woman who thinks she can change a man who doesn't want kids is as stupid as my mother.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Might I suggest that you avoid phrases like "stupid as my mother" when trying to patch things up with your family? Long years of experience have shown me that this helps.
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
I'm not trying to patch things up, just avoid them as much as possible. She made a decision to stay with him, so I'm making a decision to stay away.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Chaeron, sounds like a story I am struggling with.
Sometimes I think it's useless to write a list of what you want in a partner when sometimes you end up with someone so on the other side of the spectrum... I wish I'd end up with someone. A nice heathen like me, because I can't see myself with someone hyper-religious... The arguments we'd get into. The secrets I'd have to keep. I don't plan on spending the rest of my life hiding and disguising myself. That's no fun. My main criteria is, "Don't get on my nerves." But it's impossible to find someone who WON'T get on your nerves some of the time. (Jennifer Connely is so dreamy... She has such gorgeous eyes. But in Requiem for a Dream though... gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
As a single mother of three, I have NO interest in dating anyone who doesn't like kids.
quote: Uh...Christy...while there may be a great deal more to a woman than the fact that she has 3 kids, and the person she is underneath the title Mom may be spectacular, her top job and highest priority for responsibility is toward those kids she chose to make. So it seems to me that being identified as "Single mom of 3 kids" is reasonable. Her sparkling, wonderful personality isn't going to undo the fact that she has three children, nor should it.
Exactly!
That said, the person Slash was speaking to might still be right.
*ducks, runs*
*runs faster*
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
I have a response to Christy.
Christy:
While I agree that the woman in question is NOT defined solely by the fact that she is the mother of three children, your life together WOULD be partially defined by those three children.
If that is a life you are not interested in, then getting to know the woman as a romantic partner is a mistake.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Well, as a single mom of three (stands besides rivka) I have decided to basically just wait until my 3 are mostly grown and on their own before I date at all. It is just easier that way. I will always be a mom, but they may not be a part of my daily 24/7 life, and I will have more time to commit to a man after they are adults.
I know there is a LOT of pressure on men when there is a situation where he is dating a woman *and her kids* -- trying to be all things to all people. And it is hard on the kids.
My "list" of things a man must/must not have has usually been (and these things were by trial and error -- I didn't have any list years ago)
1. Must not smoke. (which is why my last relationship was especially bad -- he knew that I felt this way -- I had made it very clear, and he agreed with me, etc. and assured me he had never smoked -- until I caught him smoking behind my back) <sigh>
2. Be a Christian
3. Have a work ethic. After having been married for six years to a guy who had 15 jobs in 2 years and holds the world's record for getting fired for not getting his lazy butt out of bed in the morning, I decided I would really like to have someone who thinks work and providing for his family is important.
quote: or just after the boing-boingy
Olivetta! I just died reading that! MOST men are just after the boing-boingy (at least when it gets to dating middle-aged men...)
Farmgirl
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Synestesia, I wish I could tell you that a hyper-religious guy would respect your heathenism (or other belief) as a way of life, but I see people thinking they can sweep it under the rug over and over. I'm so glad it didn't work out for me the dude who grew up to be a presbyterian minister. If religious autonomy is important to you, I hope you always make a big deal of it so you can steer clear of the hyper religious guys.
I agree that there is more to a woman than her kids or lack thereof, and there is also more to a man than whether he wants kids or not.
Posted by peter the bookie (Member # 3270) on :
This suddenly struck me as funny (and I don't mean this to be insulting, just amusing in our differences).
I hadn't realized I had a line there, but I think I can honestly say that if some guy said that he woulnd't marry someone who beat couldn't beat him at chess, I'd have walked away.
For better or worse, I guess I'm just that picky. *laughs*
Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
Again, Pooka, yes there is more to people than their children/lack thereof.
But any relationship will be partially defined by children/lack of children. If that part of the relationship is important to you, then making a dating decision based on it is smart.
Why is it that a woman can say, "I would never marry a man who didn't want to raise a family" and no one will bat an eye. But if a man says, "I would never marry a woman with kids/who wants kids" and he is a jerk?
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
quote:Vegitarian - As I once heard, 'Dating is 2% sex, and 98% trying to figure out where to eat'. I think there are lifestyle choices that can make people incompatible. I don't want disapproving looks every time I munch a ham sandwich.
In their defense, I have never known a vegetarian that looked at me or any of the other people at the table disapprovingly when we ordered a steak or a "Meat Lover's" pizza. Also, I can't think of any restaraunt off-hand that doesn't serve something for vegetarians (like a salad or veggie-burger).
Now, of course, if they were one of those freaky vegetarians that exploded because a fry they purchased at MacDonalds, for goodness sake, was cooked in grease, there might be a problem. Most of the vegetarians I know, however, don't eat meat because they don't like the taste of it.
I don't get it either.
[ April 16, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Why is it that a woman can say, "I would never marry a man who didn't want to raise a family" and no one will bat an eye. But if a man says, "I would never marry a woman with kids/who wants kids" and he is a jerk?
I don't know, Slash because I agree with you - anyone who doesn't want children should be absolutely up front about that and a woman or man who married someone who didn't agree with their views on having children is asking for trouble.
I'm no big fan of Dr. Phil, but on one show I saw him tell a couple that children took two yesses and only one no. I think that's a good way to look at it. If you're going to bring a life into the world, both of you need to be on board for it.
And if you want kids and the person you're dating doesn't - your asking for trouble if you agree to a marriage without thoroughly addressing the issue.
Personally, I don't think raising kids is for everyone and I admire Slash for being up front about it, and the fact that he and his wife are happy together with their choice is fantastic.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
A guy not wanting to have kids doesn't make him a jerk. I think I'll always be to young to have kids, even when I'm forty. At least it means he knows his mind and has thought of it. You just can't force him.
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See ya!
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So, yeah. I converted to Heathenism for the perfect man, and have found my life much the better for it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I just died reading that! MOST men are just after the boing-boingy (at least when it gets to dating middle-aged men...)![[Confused]](confused.gif)