For a psych class, the Professor is having us do an assignment in which I am to ask other people for ideas. I am to write a letter to myself on how to pick a marriage partner. I should talk to others to gain insight, advice, ideas, etc. It's going to be 2 pages long on my ideas and the advice of others and ladedadeda. (single spaced, 12 font ).
I suppose most of the insight and advice mostly goes with what to look for in a person, which is totally going to be subjective on certain levels. Others is going to be what's helpful in a marriage, and what's hurtful.
I suppose I should say a few things on my ideas. First, I can't even imagine myself being married, which is going to be normal, so I'm not freaked out that I don't really care to be right now. Next, there is a lot of me that needs improving for any kind of relationship, mostly self esteem wise. People like people who like themselves.
Being able to say when their upset would be a positive thing. If she was upset at me, I would prefer her to tell me to work it out, instead of letting it sit and bug her, and vice versa for me.
When life gets tough, it does no good not to point out what your obstacles are. She'd have to be able to see things as goals and obstacles, other than failures and defeats.
For me, she'd have to be someone who knows how to enjoy herself, while still having limits on how to do that. In otherwords, she's gotta be colorful.
Expecting her to be perfect all the time would be wrong of me, and I don't expect her to be. And likewise, she can't expect me to be perfect.
Being LDS is a big part of who I am, and right now, I'd have to say that for me, she'd have to be LDS, too. I'm not saying I won't date/flirt with nonMormon girls, but in the long run, her having the same religion as me would work better.
I'd like to have at least one child in my future, and saying that, I'd be silly to say that her genetics aren't going to play a role. The thing is is I don't want to say that I can't marry her because of her genes. Again, I'd prefer to see it as an obstacle other than a failure.
The main problem with this assignment and me is that I can't comprehend yet the kind of love and relationship needed for marriage. Or perhaps it is that I do, and don't feel it. I don't know. I'm not going to claim either.
So, anyone have any insight to picking Mr./Mrs. right?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Ouiji board
When that fails, Magic 8 Ball.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Hatrack.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
When I'm grading papers, I sometimes throw them all down the stairs. The ones that get farthest get the best grades.
Hope that helps.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Haven't you people ever heard of getting really drunk at a college party, asking a guy what his sign is, and then arranging for a ride home from him?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
::laughs::
So should I fold it in a paper airplane, or do crumpled balls get more distance?
Edit: Seriously though, he specifically said to ask for insight.
[ April 25, 2004, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]
Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
A psyche class teaching young adults (averaging 18-21) is asking them to put together a list describing their potential marriage partner?
This doesn't seem a little out of the league of a psyche class to anyone else? What are they gonna ask next? What names you plan on choosing for children?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You don't think asking young adults to think about their most important life decision is a good idea?
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
John, he got other options, that's just the one he's choosing to answer.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Well, when I think about this question for myself, I try to analyze myself first. What quirks do I have? How do these effect my relationships with other people? What is essential to my mental make up?
For example, I could never marry someone who doesnt understand my fascination with baseball. I LIVE red sox during the season, and I need someone willing to tolerate that, because its central to my personality.
On a deeper level, I have a lot of the typical jewish neuroses. Could I marry a non-jew? I don't know. She might not be able to deal with me.
I express love through mockage, oftentimes. If I don't mock you, I don't care about you enough to mock you. My sense of humor runs towards self belittlement. This extends to everyone important enough to have a place in my mental conception of myself. A lot of women love this about me, a lot hate it.
Just some examples.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I think a sense of humor, including the ability to laugh at yourself, is one of the most important ingredients in a relationship. (And I admit I never had it as a teenager or twenty-something.) I remember every conversation and every meeting with Bob as perfect, because when something goes other than we had planned we laugh at ourselves (and each other) instead of getting angry or frustrated. So even the mistakes are fun.
Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
quote:You don't think asking young adults to think about their most important life decision is a good idea?
I don't think 18-21 year olds have the right frame of mind to make a suitable decision. I fully expect "likes the same bands" and "looks cute" to be high on such a list from that age group.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
I'm sure that everyone has a shopping list of traits/ideals/philosophies that would be important to them. I would suggest that knowing yourself well is the first key to successful partnering.
Identify the areas you and your potential mate are least likely to compromise on and work those out ahead of time.
Realize you are going to fight occaisionally. You aren't going to win every time and compromise never feels good but is essential.
Personally, a sense of humor, compassion, and the ability to communicate effectively are qualities that I find very helpful.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Thanks for the vote of confidence in my judgement, John. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Maybe not all of them are as immature now as you were then.
*grins at John*
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
quote:I fully expect "likes the same bands" and "looks cute" to be high on such a list from that age group.
Oh, John. Don't even get me started.
Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
You know, despite the obvious exceptions to the rule, it doesn't justify having such a subject be part of a general education class.
T, why don't you take a short survey of 100 students in your school? I'll do the same of 100 youngsters at my local community college. I'm pretty confident that I'm not projecting here (like Kate is assuming).
It ain't a personal lack of confidence, T. It's a general surprise that a class would be asking students to explain such decisions, where they have little to draw from for an accurate answer. That is, unless you prefer basing a marriage off of adolescent high-school romances.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
John, maybe it's an exercise in self-exploration. He's not asking them to be *right*, he's just asking them to consider the idea.
Maybe he'll tell them to save the letters and read them ten years down the road.
Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
Or maybe it's another example of rushing kids into thinking about getting married.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
"Maybe he'll tell them to save the letters and read them ten years down the road. " -- Well, that is the concept of writing yourself a letter.
And as far as answers like "he's cute" is involved, why do you think he said to ask other people for insight and advice on what to look for. Asking people of course is going to be honor system based, but I'm pretty sure he'd be able to spot a letter that was based off those high school romances.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
quote: T, why don't you take a short survey of 100 students in your school? I'll do the same of 100 youngsters at my local community college. I'm pretty confident that I'm not projecting here (like Kate is assuming).
Um, I think the wiser course here is what he's trying to do in this thread you keep trying to derail. Why would he want to base his thoughts on the idiot mass of college kids that have no idea when he has ready access to all of us? I'm not going to say your assesment is wrong, but this approach is neither what the question asked for nor the smartest solution.
quote: Or maybe it's another example of rushing kids into thinking about getting married.
*looks up*
Oh, I actually did make a post already! He picked the question.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
John- I think its a great assignment. If people actually THINK about marriage partners, ask others about it, etc. I'll bet that over half the papers are reasonable attempts to describe what should go into that decision making process.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
It is a valid question. In psych classes that focus on marriage counciling, "fighting" is always stressed. You want to look for someone you can fight "well" with.
The definition of "good fighting" is more then what a 2 page paper could cover.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Students study sex education. Do you feel that is inappropriate?
Asking students to consider what areas of importance they would assign in choosing a potential life partner makes sense. This (to me) is no different than careers courses that many schools offer. We aren't expecting these 9th graders to rush out and get a job right away but they should be thinking about what is important to them and what areas fit their strengths.
[ April 25, 2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Not to be rude, but take it to another thread if you're not going to be giving any advice or insight.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
1. Date lots of women who have the same general beliefs as you.
Hmm. From this point out, it kind of depends on the person.
But hey, that's a starting point!
Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :
No personal advice, but this is the advice my religion teacher gave my class one year (I think in grade 10- could be wrong).
Pick someone you can talk to about anything at anytime.
Pick someone that you don't need to talk to all the time- just being with them is enough to make you feel content.
Pick someone that you can be comfortable being you around... (I think he oh so eloquently put it "if you need to fart, fart. Don't be embarrassed by it")
Pick someone who makes you smile.
Pick someone who's "annoying" habits are livable annoyances.
Don't expect the person to be perfect, expect them to be human.
Hmmm... I know there was more to that "sermon" then that, but I'm feeling brain dead (exams coming up- been studying my butt off )
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
My class was once told by a teacher that a couple can get over any difference--race, socioeconomic background, interests, political leanings, even religion--except one: differences in level of intelligence. I have no idea if that's true or not.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Its not true. Seen too many relationships work where one partner is significantly less intelligent then the other.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:shutting up:
:biting tongue:
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Find someone who has similar or complementary goals. Marriage is less about looking deep into each others' eyes, and more about looking in the same direction, toward something important to you both.
Choose someone who sticks with their commitments. Every marriage will have unforeseen (and unforeseeable) challenges. You want someone who will stick with it, even when times get hard. Even when it's hard to remember why you got married.
Choose someone who's not afraid of change -- in you or themselves; but DON'T choose someone on the condition that they WILL change. Growth should be allowed and encouraged, but not forced.
Choose someone who you enjoy being around. You're going to be looking at this person every morning over your orange juice (as one teacher of mine once put it) -- make it someone whose company you find enjoyable.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Confirmation class was a decade ago, but I remember it involving a similar lecture.
Along with, you guys aren't ready to get married until you're ready to go out and buy tampons. I think the specific example he used for little annoyances was toothpaste. He asked us all where we squeezed the tube from and what if our spouse squeezed it from a different place every day.
I don't know that I can add much to this for you, Nate. You already know that I have a list of "no." My list of "yes" has sense of humor, patience, loyalty, ability to take criticism, ability to give criticism, and must be an asshole. I think I did pretty well, and I think we continue to do well.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I think opposites may attract, but you must have some common ground before entering into a marriage. You MUST be in agreement on whether or not to have kids. I personally think religion is something you need to be compatible on, but that's because religion is so central to my life. It may not be as big a deal to others.
I think you should look for someone that you can enjoy talking with. Sexual attraction and the ability to do fun things together is not enough. YOu also need to just enjoy being with that person. You need to think sitting on the couch beside them reading is better than sitting on the couch reading alone. Even if you're not talking, not interacting, a good mate is someone that makes you better just by being near you.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
For me, a very important trait is that you have similar views on money/finances. Very few things can create strife in a marriage faster than the couple not agreeing on how to handle money.
If one person is frugal and likes to save, while the other one thinks that they "deserve" to go out and buy nice things because they feel like it or for whatever reason, that will cause all sorts of problems.
A related story:
My roommates and I were pretty close. Whenever one of us started dating a girl, she would eventually be subjected to "the test" by the roommates. We would pull out a credit card, and ask a yes-or-no question.
"Is this money?"
The correct answer, of course is "No. That is debt." One girl said that of course it was money. When we tried to explain that it's not money, she didn't understand. Her daddy had always paid her credit card payments. If she wanted to buy something, she just had to go to the store and get it. *shudder*
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I'd like to point out that in addition to the (very good ) suggestions that have been made before, physical attraction on some level is a must. You'll be (hopefuly) living with this person for years and years to come and if you don't even like looking at them... well you get the point. Marriage is about loving each other, and part of everyone is their body if they like it or not. Of course I think other things are far more important but msot of them have been mentioned.
I think it's key how you handle stress. Not how each person individually handles stress, I'm of the opinion that it can be helpful if you handle it in the same way, but not necessary. The important part is how your relationship handles stress. If you have to make a tough desicion or get in a fight, how do you react to each other? It's important that even when you're mad at each other or worried or have to make a tough choice you can still live in the same house and sleep in the same bed, not to mention come out making a good desicion.
Hobbes Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Compatibility. The more important a part of yourself is, the more compatible it needs to be.
Example, if you go to church every Sunday and base your life decisions around prayer, you better get someone with the same commitment to God you have. If you were more raised in a religion than actually following it, you may not care if your partner has a different belief system.
I second the money rule. Ask your potential mate if they round their checkbook or keep it to the penny. Whichever you do, the other will drive you nuts. I love the credit card test, mph.
I think it mainly comes down to knowing yourself. What will you compromise on? What is too vital to your sense of self? Knowing when to compromise is just as important as being willing to compromise.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
It's alot about how well you argue. Everyone will have disagreements, if you have poor conflict resolution skills, enmity will build.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
There was a course called "Mate Selection" at my uni. It was one of those very easy electives. Mostly full of girls. Taught in some girly part of campus like the home ec building or something. Three of my guy friends took it and had a great time letting their hair down and talking girl talk with the chicks. Posted by Coccinelle (Member # 5832) on :
When I think about choosing the person I want to marry, I have to ask myself the following question: De we have the same goals? Are we headed in the same direction financially, spiritually, socially, intellectually and emotionally?
I think it's important to look at not only where you have been, but what are your plans? What are his/her plans?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
If you ask mph's question, be sure to be willing to explain before juding. The answer to that question can stem from a lot of different things. For instance I have my credit card set up so that it autmatically gets paid back from my checking acount unless there isn't enough. And I never spend more than there is in my checking account (or even close to it). So for me, the credit card acts exactly like the debit card I have that also accesess that checking account. In other words, I may fail your test until you explained to me what you meant and then I'd see your point and agree.
Hobbes Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Every succesful marriage I know of has one thing in common -- one member is hot-blooded, the other cold. They cannot be comfortable at the same temperature. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Hobbes, of course. The question is a springboard to see what their attitudes on money is.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I agree with a lot of the other things that have been said. These are personal musts for me:
quote: Realize you are going to fight occaisionally. You aren't going to win every time and compromise never feels good but is essential.
quote: Pick someone that you can be comfortable being you around... (I think he oh so eloquently put it "if you need to fart, fart. Don't be embarrassed by it")
quote: Choose someone who sticks with their commitments. Every marriage will have unforeseen (and unforeseeable) challenges. You want someone who will stick with it, even when times get hard. Even when it's hard to remember why you got married.
quote: YOu also need to just enjoy being with that person. You need to think sitting on the couch beside them reading is better than sitting on the couch reading alone. Even if you're not talking, not interacting, a good mate is someone that makes you better just by being near you.
Also, pick someone you're willing to sacrifice for. You need to be able to say, "I've always wanted to do this, but you're more important."
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Hobbes Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Ditto on the money thing, more divorces happen over money management than I think just about anythinge else. Even if your spending habits aren't identical you have to be comfortable with the other persons as well as bill-paying etc.
AJ
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
The statistic I heard (no link, this was a year ago in a psych class) was that the number one cause of divorce was just plain drifting away. I guess that measn that after a while the couple just didn't feel any connection to each other after a while. I guessed money would be first two but it was second.
Hobbes Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
i'm going to choose my marriage partner based strictly on breast size. is that bad?
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
rivka said:
quote: Choose someone who's not afraid of change -- in you or themselves; but DON'T choose someone on the condition that they WILL change .
Bold, underline, capitalize - this is critical! I think it's one thing to be in a marriage where a problem emerges and needs to be resolved. But if it's a problem during the dating/engagement period, GET OUT! (Fast)
And by all means, treat yourself and your fiance-to-be to one of those pre-marriage encounters (months in advance of the actual wedding) where you can explore all the other areas that are involved in a relationship (finances, religion, childrearing, household duties, etc.)
And definitely check the list/letter in 10 years. You'll either get a good laugh or you'll cry!
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
Pick someone who is LDS, has a temple recommend, and still smells good to you even after working in the yard all day without perfume or deodorant. Date long enough to find out what is important to her without having to ask. See how she treats her siblings and parents (and maybe yours, too) when she thinks you're not looking. Everything else can be worked out.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Dead Horse is wrong. Not only about the LDS and temple thing - but the smelling issue.
There is nothing wrong with telling the person you love that he needs to take a shower before there will be any cuddling together under the covers.
Nothing at all. In fact, you'd better have a good enough relationship and be comfortable enough together to be able to say "Ya know, you need a shower. Badly" and know that person won't be offended.
Although, I will say that when Wes leaves on the weekends to go to the fire station, and I have an hour or so to sleep in, I always roll over to his side of the bed, so I can sleep on his pillow. Smells like him.
Smells like a clean him though, not a nasty yard work him. There is a difference.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
quote:I am to write a letter to myself on how to pick a marriage partner.
I'm no expert, but I'd say the first step is not writing a letter to yourself. I don't think that sort of thing is legal yet.
[ April 26, 2004, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Remember that whether she wants to marry you or not is completely her choice. As much as I wanted to marry my (future) wife, I had to let her make up her mind about marrying me.
You're choosing your wife, and she's choosing her husband, and the choices coincide. It's a beautiful thing. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Someone who'd take care of spiders.
Which simply is another way of saying: someone to whom my needs come before his. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
And vice versa, duh.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:When I'm grading papers, I sometimes throw them all down the stairs. The ones that get farthest get the best grades.
Hope that helps.
Sorry to interrupt, but Iccy made me spew Peach Tea Snapple.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I think it's a stupid assignment.
I think psychology professors in particular, lie awake at night trying to think of cutesy and stupid assignments, just to see how their class reacts.
Farmgirl
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I posted last night when I was half delirious.
The thing about agreeing on money management or delegation of money management, is that the way you approach this one item tells a lot about the values you hold in the rest of your lives. If the values you hold are similar it should be easier to work out financial strategies than if they are drastically different.
AJ
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Not only about the LDS and temple thing - but the smelling issue.
If you're active LDS and not willing to give it up, religion is the biggest issue. Bigger than money, bigger than sex, bigger than just about everything. It's very, very hard to be actively LDS and be doing it by yourself. It often, often comes down to a choice between staying actively LDS or picking your spouse.
There are exceptions (at least one here at Hatrack), but those are the wildly, wildly rare exceptions. Expecting anything else is fooling yourself.
quote:Remember that whether she wants to marry you or not is completely her choice. As much as I wanted to marry my (future) wife, I had to let her make up her mind about marrying me.
AFR, while I LOVE that you recognize that, I can't even tell how much it annoys that it has to be said. I know you're not talking to T specifically, but it is unbelievable to me how many guys don't quite realize that their preferences and what they think of me are not the only factors in whether or not it's going to happen.
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
How is that not obvious?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You'd think so, huh?
Because some guys have a sense of entitlement that because they are so Darn Cool, anyone they pick would be lucky to have him. And if they aren't quite sure, then they are obviously wrong. Since there's that whole Get Married commandment, not only are they wrong in some way, they are immoral for not wanting to marry him.
And I WISH I were kidding. Trust me, this is not a pleasant thing to discover about the human race.
[ April 26, 2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Homestarrunner (Member # 5090) on :
kat--
(This is afr, by the way)
I've always thought it was kind of one-sided to say "choose your spouse carefully." As if you could just walk up and pull her off the shelf. I did decide that my future wife was the woman I wanted to marry, but that wouldn't have counted for much if she hadn't decided she wanted to marry me as well (and she almost didn't). I had to sit on my thumbs many times to not start trying to persuade and cajole her into marrying me. I thought I had a good case, but I wanted her to make the choice on her own. The fact that she did is the most positive reassurance I have ever received in my life, and is a constant source of strength and confidence for me. Her approval keeps me working hard to become the type of man who deserves it.
Men who choose their wives and expect them to accept the choice are thinking of them in terms of expensive property or social investments. I can't say what the women are thinking when they "accept." But that's what the men are thinking.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Okay, time for me to get serious for a sec:
T, if being LDS is important to you, then I believe that is the most important thing in the world (like what Kat said). Here's why.
Because a belief in Christ and commitment to following what he wants for your life will outweigh ANY struggles you may have, and I truly believe that. When two people both work hard to please God, they will make decisions that are pleasing to each other, and/or learn to live with those decisions.
That aside, pick a really hot one, and chemistry will never be a problem.
Breakdown: First, same convictions in religion as you. Distant second, but still very important: Chemistry.
(Not to say that compatability isn't important, but I do believe that it is often the natural reaction to be attracted to a person with a compatable (read: opposite) personality to you. As far as kindness and respectfulness and all that good stuff, that should be covered in the "commitment to Christ" area.)
[ April 26, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Men who choose their wives and expect them to accept the choice are thinking of them in terms of expensive property or social investments.
No kidding. And it's supposed to be flattering!
This is obviously a sore point for me. When I was 22, a friend I had known from high school proposed, and I was just...enough of a needy Tragedy Girl (at the time) and trusted him enough at the time to agree before my brain kicked in. I'm dumb about a lot of things, but not dumb enough to make THAT decision from anything other than a position of thoughtful stability. When I said I needed a little bit of time to think about it (and adjust to being home. I'd been home from my mission for three weeks.), he did not react well. You know that whole warning that bishops give that no one else can get answers to your prayers? I thought it was a joke until I told him that I didn't feel right about it, and he told me that since he DID feel right about it, and since he was the one who had the priesthood, then I was getting was obviously wrong and I needed to listen to him, and he was dissapointed in me that I'd question priesthood authority like that.
I'm pretty sure there's a special place in hell for guys that misuse it like that. Especially since my testimony of the authority of the priesthood was aquired amidst so many tears and prayers in the first place. Obviously, his reaction made MY decision much, much easier to make.
So, yes, thank you for what you said. And bravo to you for not pressuring her.
[ April 26, 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I always thought choice had little or nothing to do with love; it would be like saying that there's choice involved in getting hit by a falling piano as you're walking down the sidewalk. I don't think anyone sat back and said "Hmm... You know, I think I'm gonna fall in love with NO WAIT!... Yeah. Yeah, the blonde. Looks nice in slacks."
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
Belle, I am not wrong. We just have different opinions and preferences.
Kat, Yeah. Those "I had a vision" proposals are evil.
Okay, maybe you don't choose a spouse like you choose a laundry detergent. But it pays to be careful where you shop.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
kat, every time I hear stories about LDS guys that try to talk girls into marriage by claiming either revelation or authority (which is too often for comfort), I am tempted to think it's just a joke, or that it's something that happened to someone once, and the story just spread and became a Mormon Urban Legend. And then I hear from someone to whom it actually happened. Like you. And my mind boggles.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Book, I believe choice has a LOT to do with love. I believe it is impossible to "fall in love" with someone without first choosing to get to know them well enough to fall in love. I also believe that you can choose NOT to fall in love. I do recognize, however, that you can't simply choose to fall in love, like, "Hey, I think I'll fall in love with that person there. Oh, it worked."
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I know all about that kind of revelation. My mom gets one everytime she meets a good-looking guy who'll sleep with her right away and treat ther like crap.
God told her that they should get married.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
And finally, for my answer to the original question.
I have long held the opinion that genuine friendship is the most important factor in marriage. That is why I think that you should become good friends with someone before you ever seriously consider marrying them, or even becoming deeply romantically involved.
When thinking about whom to marry, look for someone who has the qualities you would want for your closest personal friend.
I have never understood those marriages in which one or both spouses wants to spend all available spare time hanging out with "the guys" or "the girls," meaning, in my mind, their "real" friends, since of course they could never have any fun with a spouse that doesn't involve the marital bed.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I remember once a teacher had us do a thought exercise. He had us for about five minutes write down all the qualities that we wanted in our future spouse. Then we were stopped and envisioned that wonderful person in the mind's eye. Then we were to imagine what kind of person that person would be attracted to. The point was that if you want to attract that kind of person, you need to become someone that he/she would be attracted to themselves.
I have seen many people fail to realize this. I have known overweight guys that would never consider dating anybody that weighed over 110 lb.. It's so sad and pathetic, it makes me cry.
[ April 26, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Close your eyes and think about yourself in the future. Now look to the side and see who's right next to you.
Think about the worst time in your life, and think about who you would want at your side if you had to go through it again.
Think about the thing you hate to do more than anything in the world, and figure out the one person you would not only do it for, but would be happy to do it for.
Think about who you want to call first when you find out you got promoted. Then think about whether you'd be happier about your promotion or learning about hers/his.
Think about who you want to call first when you find out someone close to you died.
Think about who you would give your most precious possession to, not for safekeeping, but to do with as s/he will.
Dagonee
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Or think about the beauty and simplicity of entering the monastery or convent.
(Sorry, Dag - I couldn't help it, I just had to say it . . . )
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Jeez, Shan, last time I try to be sensitive around here. Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Sorry.
*Bows head in shame. For about 1.5 seconds.*
Edited to add:
[ April 26, 2004, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Shan ]
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
That's beautiful Dag.
But according to your formula, I would marry my mom, or Colonel Klink.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Well, implicit in that is that someone isn't ready to get married until the answer isn't a parent, sibling, or fictional commanding officer of a P.O.W. camp.
Edit: Wow, Shan, that was about 1.25 seconds longer than I thought I'd get, best case.
[ April 26, 2004, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
I'm practicing humility, Dag. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The problem with practicing humility is that as soon as you think you're getting better at it you're not.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I'm glad you said that, Dag! I was trying so hard to think of way to say something like that, but nothing sounded funny. Good job.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Thank ya very much!
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
*Thwacks all around with Ralphie's stick.*
*Hopes Ralphie doesn't mind the imprudent use of her irony adjuster.* Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Well of course I knew you were being ironic. If I thought you were serious I would have mocked you mercilessly.
Dagonee
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Promises, promises . . .
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
quote: That's beautiful Dag.
But according to your formula, I would marry my mom, or Colonel Klink.
I laffed.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I thought Rivka's post was fantastic. The only thing I would add is that a potential spouse should have an ethic of growth, rather than reaching a level of comfort and maintaining it.
In Utah, it is not unlikely that there are many girls who didn't have education emphasized for them growing up, so I would say don't discriminate too much on "intelligence". I think they should be your equal in potential, even if they haven't read or studied as much as you.
I have this great book called Till Debt Do Us Part (Oddly, my husband won't read it because he thinks the title is fatalistic, but there was an earlier version called Love and Money ) It begins with a values inventory, assuming that money is an expression of values and that people who can sympathize with each other's values can overcome disagreements about money. I don't want to crash his copyright by listing it all, by my hierarchy of values was as follows: (you get to pick 10 out of 30 and rank them)
1. A meaningful relationship with God. 2. A fulfilling marriage 3. Success in a job or career (where my job is childrearing). 4. Honesty and personal integrity 5. Learning, gaining knowledge continually 6. Emotional security, freedom from excessive stress 7. Good health and physical fitness 8. Helping the poor, sick and disadvantaged 9. Social recognition and community status 10. Having nice things, such as cars, boats, furniture
It also has an interesting section about finances and birth order. But I'll probably put that in another thread.
P.S. Yes, there were 20 things that I want nice things more than. None of them was "World Peace", though.
[ April 26, 2004, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Think about who you would give your most precious possession to, not for safekeeping, but to do with as s/he will.
I refuse to marry anyone who uses "s/he." How do you pronounce that, anyway?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I think love is my only criterion. I want to marry someone I'm completely in love with, who loves me as much or more. I think the rest will work itself out.
Here's how I could tell.
1. We each are better people together than we were alone. We are kinder, harder working, better at our jobs, better children/siblings/etc. to our families, calmer, saner, and happier people when we're together.
2. We each put the other's needs and problems ahead of our own. We both find joy in being of service to the other.
3. We each think of the other many times a day. We talk about the other one a lot, making excuses to bring the other's name into every conversation.
4. We each think the other is better than we deserve, and want to try to live up to be the person the other one really ought to have.
5. We each enjoy thinking of ways to make the other one happy. Whether it's little gifts or just thoughtful or loving things to say or do, we each take great joy in constantly inventing new ways of making the other one smile.
6. We each admire the other as people, we think highly of each other's talents and qualities as human beings. We each want the other to succeed, to achieve their dreams, to accomplish great things.
7. The saddest day together is happier than the happiest day alone. We each are grateful for the other person, and perpetually amazed that we should be loved by someone such as that.
I think so long as this is true, then everything else can be worked out. I think that in such a case, the love and joy would just build and build up to the sky and beyond, for the rest of eternity. I don't look for that to happen to me in this life, but that's how I picture my marriage. That is what I look for.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: 7. The saddest day together is happier than the happiest day alone.
There are some people that this can never be true for. Some of us really enjoy solitude. So, I guess somebody like me would never make it onto your list. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I guess I didn't mean that exactly. What I meant was the saddest day after we were together (whether spent together or not) was happier than the happiest day before we were together.
But anyway, I heard you were already married. Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
*applauds aka* Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
*steals AK's green accounting visor*
AKA
fallow
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I am so jealous of ak it hurts. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I refuse to marry anyone who uses "s/he." How do you pronounce that, anyway?
Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one, I guess.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
quote:I am so jealous of ak it hurts.
Why?
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I'm looking for what she has described and judging by the specific way she wrote that post, I think it is safe to assume that she has found someone who fit that description.
Man, is this a sapy post or what? Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
But, ak, what happens if you fall out of love?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Beren, I couldn't figure out why either. No need for jealousy here. So far I've only just tasted it enough to know what it would be like. Yet even that one taste, maybe, is reason enough for jealousy. I know I would not trade it for anything.
PSI, for me love never quits. I have to work hard for years to get over someone, even when I'm trying my very best, after they go away or decide they don't love me, or something.
If somehow it happened that my feelings were ever to disappear, I do know how to get them back. (I mean in addition to waiting with faith and knowing the feelings will return.) The secret to how to generate love for someone in your heart is very simple. Just render them loving service. When you do that consistently over time, your heart will surely come to love them greatly. It's very easy.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I would just like to point out that it's perfectly o.k. to leave your religion or, for that matter, to join one for the sake of your spouse or, Bob love ya, go to two different churches!!!!, as long as your 'core' values are basically the same.
I honestly believe that all the 'major' religions in this country are pretty much equivalent, anyway. So, it's not that big of a deal.
So, T., if you meet a nice Jewish girl, or a Catholic girl, or whatever, please feel free to date and marry her.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Sappy, Beren, sappy.
'S'okay - I still luv ya.
(Dang this thread brings the sarcasm out in me . . . )
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Aw Stormy, it's not the same.
It's a matter of time. What about.. well, what about tithing? And remember the priesthood thing? Where do the kids get baptized? Church is three hours long on Sundays and there's stuff during the week. The amount of scriptures quadruple. The amount of comprimises that would have to be made is amazing, and for many of them, you'd have to choose between your religion and your family. If you really believe your religion, that's a terrible choice. Why set yourself up for it?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: Aw Stormy, it's not the same.
I mean the people are 99.9% the same. If you put me in a room with a Catholic, a Mormon, a Hindu and a Muslim, and religion in general was never brought up, I doubt very seriously that I would be able to tell who was who.
If you left your religion to participate in your partner's religion, I bet, given some time, you would have some amazing revelations about the truthfulness of your partner's religion, and vice versa, and how there really isn't that much seperating them.
quote: It's a matter of time. What about.. well, what about tithing? And remember the priesthood thing? Where do the kids get baptized? Church is three hours long on Sundays and there's stuff during the week. The amount of scriptures quadruple. The amount of comprimises that would have to be made is amazing, and for many of them, you'd have to choose between your religion and your family. If you really believe your religion, that's a terrible choice. Why set yourself up for it?
Obviously, if you marry someone else with the attitude of absolutism, that only one religion is absolutely the right way to go and there really is only one, true way to worship God, you're going to run into problems.
But that is a choice. It's perfectly possible to be syncretic in your philosophy and beliefs. In a marriage, you do that to some degree anyway. Doing it with two religions just takes compromise. Certainly if you believe two people can walk into a marriage without ever having sex and make it work through communication, the same applies to religion.
So, maybe you compromise on the priesthood and they compromise on dietary laws. Maybe you go to Mosque on Saturdays and Temple on Sundays. It's quite doable. There's no shame in going your own way sometimes, though whether whatever church you are going to approves is another story.
I think T should know that his world isn't going to end if he marries a non-Mormon. We're really not bad people. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Aww... It's not a matter of bad people, Stormy.
But being Mormon does mean that it has something that other religions don't, something important. Even agreeing that there's no real difference between the two means you've already given up something...
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
When my sister got married everyone was so worried. She had 4 Mormon friends who all married in the temple and were so concerned for her because her boyfriend was non-Mormon. She left the church and married someone who many considered suspect.
Jump 17 some-odd-years later and she is the only one still married. If you hold Mormonism more important then people, by all means, find someone with the same values.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*shrug* My step-sister married a guy that converted for her. They got divorced a couple of years ago.
Didn't Tom find some data that LDS marrying in the tmple have an 11% divorce rate, but LDS marrying a non-LDS have an 45% divorce rate?
Stormy, even in your justification, what you're saying is that it's okay to compromise your religion for somebody. That's just what I mean - you will probably have to in some ways.
One of my best friends - the one in SoCal for any Shindaers who are reading - married her oldest friend, a non-member. And she and her parents completely felt it was the right thing to do. I believe her. My dad married a non-member (my mom). I'm not saying its always a disaster. But it's a factor.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Kat, sorry about that sentence. That was overly snarky.
I agree with you that if you absolutely, positively have to be in the church and that you can only go to that church, then, yes, only date Mormons. What's the point of even dating non-Mormons?
However, if you think, for whatever reason, that you could go to another church and still be a good Mormon, or a good person, whatever, then by all means, date around and marry outside your group.
I'm not arguing against what you're saying. That would be silly.
I'm just trying to say that it's o.k., to me, and to many other people, if you go outside the church and date and marry. You can be happy. It *is* an option.
But it does come down to what you really believe. If T really believes that he could never marry outside the Mormon church, then I think he better not *date* outside the Mormon church, because that's not only a dead-end, it's liable to tempt him away from his church.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
quote: Being LDS is a big part of who I am, and right now, I'd have to say that for me, she'd have to be LDS, too. I'm not saying I won't date/flirt with nonMormon girls, but in the long run, her having the same religion as me would work better.
Not saying that if I didn't marry someone who was LDS it would be a disaster (I think any person I marry I'd have to think it wouldn't be a disaster), but that if she was, it would compliment me more, since LDS is a part of who I am. I'm sorry if you felt like I was saying nonLDS girls aren't good enough for me.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
quote: If T really believes that he could never marry outside the Mormon church, then I think he better not *date* outside the Mormon church
I agree with the statement, but not the conclusion. More like, why would you deliberatly create an emotinal attachment that you knew you'd eventually have to terminate when you could be looking for one that could potentially lead to marriage?
But that's assuming an answer to the question, what is the purpose of dating?
[ April 27, 2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: celia60 ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I don't get non-sexual 'dating' anyway. What's the difference between that and just being friends with someone? If you're just seeing someone because they're your friend and you're not interested in marrying them, or doing anything sexual with them, why call it dating?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Ha, ha. Great mimes think alike.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
quote: If T really believes that he could never marry outside the Mormon church, then I think he better not *date* outside the Mormon church
The funny thing is is I never said I couldn't marry outside the LDS church, just that it would compliment me better. Stop assuming things about me.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I didn't say that that's what you thought. See that 'if'?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Yes, but both you and kat are using that 'if', that assumption, to make a point, when that 'if' shouldn't be there to begin with on me. It'd be different if you said "If someone in the LDS church really believes..." yadda yadda yadda.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
First thing EFL students learn about conditional clauses:
if + present simple = statement of fact
if + past simple = probability
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Which is why my post uses the ever enigmatic 'you' as a reference point. Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
See how I don't mention you?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*confused*
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
*edits out all the not love*
[ April 27, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: celia60 ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Uh, I don't know which mood or tense or whatever my statement is in, but it doesn't read to me as a statement of fact. If I wanted to make it a statement of fact, I would have said 'since'. Maybe Kama would like to school me on this.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
T, did you read that thread about whether people want kids or religion (I think it also talked about smoking and vegetarianism). It had some thoughts about marriage. Wish I could remember what it was called. Are people just desperate... Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Yeah Stormy, you know you've always wanted to be "schooled" by Kama, you just finally hit on a plan to convince her to do it! AJ
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I'm not allowed to make vague sexual innuendos in Kama's direction. She gets mad at me every time I do it. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
You mean people get off on grammar? That Jon Boy Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I bet Brinestone mixes her tenses just to be 'naughty'. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
You made sexual innuendos?
Gotta read closer next time.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I didn't. No. I was just responding to Bana. Sorry that I wasn't clear.
By the way, did I goof grammatically in my 'if' sentence? I'm genuinely curious since I really don't see it as a statement of fact.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Gee. I know. I was trying to be insulting
--- I seem to have got it a bit messed up.
if + present simple
quote: Type 1 conditinals:
In these sentences, the conditional clauses represent open conditions. We make such statements when the action or event is being actively considered, or appears likely to happen.
I was actually thinking type 0 conditionals:
quote:
These sentences are statements of universal truth or general validity, and in this type of sentence, "if" corresponds closely in meaning with "when"
"If you don't water flowers, they die."
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Okay, actually, your sentence was a cause and effect type, i.e. type 0.
If he thinks so, then he shouldn't do it.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Oh, yay. It looks like I didn't goof. I can sleep with a clear conscience. Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Hrm. But I'm not saying that he does think a certain way. Yes, it's a statement of fact in that *if* he believes or does x, then I think y should be the result. I'm not saying that he does think that way, though. I think.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Dunno.
Just continue with the sexual innuendos.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I don't see how you could apply toffee without incurring a second degree burn at least.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote: I am to write a letter to myself on how to pick a marriage partner
Take her out on a date, and open the passenger side door for her. Close it behind her and walk around to your door. If she reaches over and unlocks it for you, there's your keeper. If she doesn't, at least the curb is right there to kick her to.
[ April 27, 2004, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: odouls268 ]
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
"Yet even that one taste, maybe, is reason enough for jealousy. I know I would not trade it for anything."
Still jealous.
Well, at least I'll always have Shan's cookies. Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
ODULS, if he puts that in his paper he might get in trouble for plagerism...
Still a good test=....my wife had power locks though....
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Compatible emotional baggage.
Color-coordinated, if possible.
-Trevor
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
I think this assignment sounds great. Marriage is the elephant in the room when you hit college these days, more so because trends are heading towards group dating and random hookups (this has actually been discussed in some of my philosophy, ethics, and sociology classes). A friend and I agree that while love is required, it is not enough. She and I came to this after having been in relationships where we loved deeply and were loved deeply and yet the relationship didn't work out. This is largely because of the extent that people our age change, I think. Still, people are going to keep changing all their lives - to me the most important part of a relationship is just that: that it IS a relationship. You know, the thing where you talk to someone relatively honestly about what you think about your life, their life, your lives together; the important stuff (money, politics, religion) has to gel enough, but when it's six p.m. on Tuesday night, you're not watching the news, money's not pressing atm, church/God/prayer isn't immediate absorption, yet you want to be together, what do you do?
I want a tickle fight, banter that makes me laugh until I snort, opinions on whether it was Mary or Percy who wrote most of Frankenstein, and no fear that the guy I'm with is going to adore me just as much after our slightly-more-heated-than-is-mature conversation about Mary and Percy. And that I'll still adore him. I want someone I trust and that I have fun with, in that order, both necessary.
What do you want?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote: First, I can't even imagine myself being married, which is going to be normal, so I'm not freaked out that I don't really care to be right now. Next, there is a lot of me that needs improving for any kind of relationship, mostly self esteem wise. People like people who like themselves.
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