Holy cow, what the heck is going on with the gas prices this week? In my town, regular gas is now over $2/gallon, when it was hovering in the $1.70/$1.80 range last week. I remember prices staying at a pretty consistent $1.25/gallon when we started driving around here 3 years ago.
What the heck is going on? Are they expected to drop any time soon? Doesn't the US have oil reserves that we can draw on when prices are sky high?
And does anyone have a Hybrid they want to sell me? Posted by ReikoDemosthenes (Member # 6218) on :
...and yet again I am reminded why I really ought to learn how to use public transit
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
I had to get gas this morning. Regular was $2.219. And that was at one of the cheaper gas stations.
Posted by Tzadik (Member # 5825) on :
That's pretty bad, recall getting gas for like 0.80 5-6 years ago! But on the other side, it isn't as bad in other parts of the world - in Europe (Czech Rep.) we pay $4 to a gallon!!! Now, that is really bad!
Posted by slacker (Member # 2559) on :
Gas prices are about the same here ($2.15 was the average on my way home today). I did manage to score gas for $1.83/regular last Tuesday.
I sincerely hope that they don't try to tap the Strategic Reserve just to offset gas prices. We have that reserve to help prevent the oil flow from stopping (if something was to happen in the Gulf, maybe), not to make it so that people can get cheap gas.
I think that we kinda brought this one on ourselves. We sell our mass transit systems short (no light rail here in Phoenix), drive gas guzzlers - 20mpg - , and live far from our offices. This, coupled with the increased demand overseas (China and India), a lack of refineries (we're at capacity as it is), and a billion different types of gas needed in the summertime make for more expensive gas.
If you want to help prices go back down (and I'm being honest here), try to cut back on your gas usage and encourage others to do the same. I'm talking to both SUV drivers and econo cars - saving gas anywhere is about the only thing that will help save us.
Edit: In 2000, Clinton did release some gas from the Reserves just before the election, and was trounced for it. I'm pretty sure Bush would have the same thing happen to him if he tried the same thing.
[ May 10, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: slacker ]
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
It's about $1.85 here in Orlando. It's seems like it was only a few years ago that it was about one dollar less.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I like to think of gas prices as the most concrete manifestation of the vengeance of God.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
edit: see slackers link
Gas here is as low at 1.86 that I've seen, and as high as 1.99
[ May 10, 2004, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Maybe Americans will finally learn to carpool, ride their bikes, or take the bus.
sigh... let's hope so.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Mmmmm....bike.
Hobbes Posted by slacker (Member # 2559) on :
T - Edit your link! It'll take people to pages that'll give you tons of popups and will try to sneak spyware onto your machine
[ May 10, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: slacker ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Personally, I refuse to feel bad about not trying to bike 24 miles round trip every day.
Posted by bCurt (Member # 5476) on :
As much as I hate the prices, there is something positive to it. I think it will create more demand for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles and that increased demand will put pressure on the auto industry to kick up the rollout and research on such vehicles more.
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
I guess we won't have much of a choice for now... we can't keep paying these prices, especially when our car requires at least medium-grade gas.
Unfortunately, while it's feasible for us to try to find other forms of transportation in the summer, though really difficult and inconvenient, it's near impossible in the other three seasons out of the year. Our area is incredibly steep and hilly, making bike-riding something requiring a training regimen, and there's hard rain and snow most of the year, making even walking pretty miserable if not dangerous. The bus schedules don't jive with my work schedule, and we can't really do a lot of shopping or errands if we're relying on the bus. And we don't know any of our neighbors, and even if we did, it's not fair to ask them to shuttle us around.
We need to be able to drive! We do what we can to help out the environment, but we aren't college students living on campus anymore. Public transportation and bike riding are luxuries that aren't really available to us. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Public transportation? Where!?
Posted by slacker (Member # 2559) on :
Um, you may not need to use the higher grade gas (unless you're using it to prevent misfires/predetonation).
Most high performance cars can use a lower grade fuel, but will suffer a slight performance impact as a result. C&D link
I used to run 91 octane gas in my Honda till I read that, then decided it wasn't worth the extra cost (and this was when I thought $1.50/regular was expensive!).
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
There was a time when people didn't have cars you know... I'm sure everyone will survive.
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Yeah, and there was a time when people worked on the same property where they lived and did their "shopping" twice a year.
There was also a time when people didn't have computers and internet, and Hatrack didn't exist! Do you really want to go back to that time? DO YOU??
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Well, aside from the no Hatrack and internet, let's go for it!
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Interesting link, slacker. We've been putting in 89 or higher since we got this car both because that's what it's always had, and because that's what the manual says to use. We put 87 in one time by accident, and the car definitely felt more sluggish. If it's not causing damage, though... we might consider switching to 87 for a little while.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Help help!
$2 a gallon in Detroit already! Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Ethanol rocks!
Farmgirl
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I'm considering the theft of an Amish horse and buggy. Yes, I know I should probably just buy one of my own, but with the cost of gas recently I can't afford to be moral. Besides, my fox terrier refuses to pull a wagon. Were about $1.86 or so down here in KY.
space opera
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Really people. Look at what Tzadik wrote.
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
Gas is $1.93 here in the Kansas side of Kansas City. Now, we do have public transportation (buses), but I don't have a clue what the schedule or routes are.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
but Kama! American is a lot BIGGER than Europe -- so we have much farther to drive......
Farmgirl
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Plus, both the Czech Republic and Poland have cheap gas, in relation to the Western Europe. At 4$ a gallon.
[ May 10, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Kama ]
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Yes, but in Europe, at least in Belgium and France where I was, the public transportation system is everywhere and pretty economical. We could travel pretty much anywhere we wanted without a car. Most places in the U.S. just don't have that kind of public transportation set up. Our bus system in Utah Valley is a joke in comparison. Driving a car is really the only reliable transportation in my area.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
I live in the Sacramento Valley in California, and we have almost no public transportaion. It's the same for San Joaquin Valley.
Gas here is about $2.20. At least I don't have to drive 150 miles to see my girlfriend (now ex) anymore.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I hate to be on the public transport side of things, but high petrol prices does increase use of public transport. Long commutes, with a public transit system that is used enough to be cheap, are completely possible.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
The reason we don't have public transportation here is because we wouldnt' use it, because we've got this attitude that if you can afford a car you're somehow a better person. No one rides the greyhound because only scary ex-cons without a drivers' license ride the Greyhound... which has elements of truth, but that's because we've decided that unless you want to hang out with scary ex-cons you don't ride the Greyhound.
It's a complicated circular effect, but it boils down to the fact that we're selfish and stuck up.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
But...
If we raise gas prices to $10 a gallon, we can force people to be less stuck up! Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Well, all the talk about public transport only helps the city folk who commute to work.
It doesn't help how the gas prices are affecting the over-the-road truck drivers trying to get our products to our stores....
.. the costs businesses are incurring to keep their equipmenet/vehicles running (such as lawn services, having to fill up lawn mowers, and drive to many locations around town..
.the cost to farmer for running machinery to harvest the grain used to make your food..
etc. etc.
There is a lot more to it than simply sharing rides to work or taking public transport.
and Public Transport isn't even an option for me to choose where I am.
Farmgirl
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
$1.87 for regular...and the car I'm looking at needs premium. *shakes fist*
Public transportation in New Orleans is awful. The streetcar only runs on one line (essentially, it goes up and down one street) which goes from Uptown down to Bourbon Street, which is really no good if you want to go...anywhere at all, really. Plus, all of the malls and movie theatres and things are in the suburbs in Metarie, which is a 30 minute drive on a good day. Then you factor in the fact that the streetcars are never reliable, always keep you waiting about half an hour, are filled with loud, smelly, drunken tourists, and have a tendency to plow over Mercedes whose idiot drivers have decided to stop on the tracks while waiting for an opening in traffic to make u-turns...
[ May 10, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: pH ]
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
You know, I love the Greyhound. I do all my travelling by bus and I've met some of the most interesting people ever while on it. And for all the interesting people I've only ever been accosted by one ex-con. But he was just out of Kingston Pen that very day and was just a little confused. The police came pretty quickly and gently dealt with him (I was very impressed). So, no harm no foul.
Gooooooo GREYHOUND!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: But on the other side, it isn't as bad in other parts of the world - in Europe (Czech Rep.) we pay $4 to a gallon!!!
Yeah, but you can cross your entire country in, like, five minutes. I'm going to have to drive two days straight just to get to a cousin's wedding on THIS side of the country.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I wish I was still working at my old job, just a bus ride to work. Now I have to drive
Remember, even at $2-2.20, we are paying less, adjusted for inflation, than even 20+ years ago.
And this jump is due to the summer season/memorial day approaching.
-Bok, who can't buy his Prius soon enough to replace his 20-year-old Volvo
Posted by Psycho Triad (Member # 3331) on :
$2.099 here in West Michigan.
I guess I'm going to have to go back to donating plasma just so I can get back and forth to work/school/stuff.
I wonder how well our local bus system works.. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Here's the thing with hybrids: I read somewhere that although yes, they save you on gas, the fuel cell has to be replaced after two years or something, and the cost of that is at least as much as the amount of money you save in gas during that time.
Anybody know?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Fuel Cell?
A hybrid car is a car with both a gas and an electric engine. The electric engine runs most of the time while power is generated by the gas engine. The gas engine can also help add power for freeway driving or going up steep hills.
I could see where replacing batteries could be expensive (though a hybrid has few of these,) but fuel cells aren't even an issue.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Well, you know what I mean. The electric deal thing.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The one that I test drove was guarenteed for 10 years. But they wouldn't even quote what it would cost to replace the battery after the ten years was up.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I would like to make a correction about why we, in the states, don't use public transportaion.
Its not because we love the car and find its use a mandatory status symbol.
Its because public transportation is, at its heart, inconvient.
At any time of day or night I can jump in my car and drive directly to where I wish to go and directly home. If I get hungry I can pull over at a vareity of eateries. The cost is a five minute fuel up every hundred or so miles and some routine maintance that I can have done for $24.99 at Jiffy Lube.
This compares to waiting at a hot bus stop for the bus to come and slowly take me to twenty stops where I don't want to go before delivering me to a stop I do want to go to. Then if I need to shop, I can only safely buy what will fit in my hands so that I can carry it to the bus. (Thsi from someone who carried a six foot long spear on the metro-link train in St. Louis. It still hangs in my house) Then I get to walk the blocks from the nearest bus stop to my house, hoping that its not raining.
Cars are status symbols, but that is not why we ignore public transportation.
We ignore it because we are lazy and impatient. We don't want to wait when we can be on the go.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
They use abunch of hi-test NiMH batteries, I believe. They are warrantied out to 8 years, minimum, and while they currently cost a grand or so to replace, in 8 years the hope is that enough hybrids are around to drop the price thanks to economies of scale.
-Bok
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Dan, you should have seen me carry a file cabinet home on a bus. I was five months pregnant, too.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
2 cities where Dan's explanation is not the case are Boston and NYC. You can get to anywhere you want about as quickly on the T as trying to drive and find parking... ANd cheaper, since the whole city is metered.
You'll find all metro schedules at this website. The metro in KC is cheap, but annoyingly sparse. You can basically get anywhere you want to go but it's a question of how long you want to spend getting there. I imagine it's even more difficult to work around a metro bus schedule on your side of the state line than it is on mine, and that's saying something.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Bok, that was why they wouldn't quote it. They just kept saying that the price would come down so much by the time the warrenty expired that any quote they gave now would be meaningless. I hope they're right. I'd really like my next car to be a hybrid.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Yeah, but Southern cities are really too spread out for effective public transportation. And although having a subway would probably be nice, but we can't even bury people underground, much less dig subway tunnels.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
pH? What's wrong with making U-turns?
*lives in a state where they're legal* Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
It's not that they're illegal. Left turns are illegal, though. It's just that when you sit in your car in the middle of the streetcar track, the streetcar doesn't always stop in time...
Then they shut down the entire streetcar line for the day.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I paid $1.889 for gas today. There was another station down the street charging $1.859, and that's the lowest I've seen around here. We usually get the cheapest gas we can get, unless it adversely affects the way the car runs. (For example, there is one low-priced gas station that my husband won't go to cause the gas makes the engine knock.)
I would use public transportation in a heartbeat if there were reasonable public transportation around here. In fact, it would make our lives a lot easier, in terms of getting kids to and from school and getting to work.
The current state of public transportation here is that it can take all day to get from point A to point B to run one errand. Who has time for that kind of nonsense? And people keep voting down proposals to improve public transportation. They would rather clog the highways (and I do mean clog) with their gas-guzzling SUVs. Posted by bCurt (Member # 5476) on :
$1.899 here in the Panhandle of Texas.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
$2.19 in the City of Angels (and that's the cheapest -- I've seen $2.35 for 87).
I have a hard enough time getting two kids to school by 8:00, and then another (back in the other direction about 15-20 minutes) by 8:20 and me a mile from there by 8:25. All I need is to fit that into a bus schedule. HA!
Give me public transportation that can let me do all that, and I'm sold! Until I had kids (plural -- it was actually after I had my second), I took buses everywhere. But with kids in tow it becomes very difficult.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I just had to fill up to go visit my mother (well, my whole family really...but she was the main reason for the visit) for mothers day, 1.90 a gallon.
Driving an SUV can be very expensive at times. Good thing I can use mass transit around town.
Posted by angelily (Member # 6298) on :
Here in the Bay Area, we're up to $2.69.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
Ela, I'm definitely with you on the SUV thing. I hate them. There is no reason to have such a large car if you don't live in a treacherous terrain, or you tow a large trailer.
I don't have too many issues with the six-cylinder SUVs (raised minivans ), but do you really need a 5.9 liter Dodge Hemi Durango/Ram? A 5.7 liter Toyota iForce Tundra/Sequoia? A 5.9 liter Ford Expedition/Explorer? These are pointless to own. I live in a valley flatter than a pancake, and yet these SUV drivers comprise over 50% of the cars on the road in my area, and they don't tow anything.
quote: Left turns are illegal, though.
pH, left turns are illegal where you live?!? Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
I believe that the regular gasoline here is 1.79, unless it's gone up again.
In small towns like this public transportation is near non-existent. There just isn't the funding to make it worthwhile, nor can there be--no tax base.
There is a transit bus and a rather expensive taxi service. To use either, you must also have a working phone; they don't make regular rounds.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Yeah, in New Orleans, you can't make left turns a good deal of the time. Our road system sucks (enough to actually justify owning an suv). You have to drive past where you're turning into, make a u-turn, and drive back.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
I went to Texas once and the traffic lights were horizontal. I'm used to vertical traffic lights. Is there any point to this reply? I dont think so.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Nick, the vehicles that get my daughter are Hummers. She always remarks on them, something on the order of: "You need a Hummer to drive on the highway in south Florida?" Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
This is why my next car will be a Prius. I'm about as environmentally protective as I can be right now (my Accord does not even move, people), and I think that the Prius is the best move for me to make.
That is, of course, if I get the job that I had a promising interview for yesterday... *crosses fingers*
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Gas prices went up another 10cents today in STL.
Hmmm. Diesel prices remain the same, which means the cost of transporting goods does not increase so overall inflation does not jump so that interest rates stay low.
If there is a shortage of fuel how can diesel remain low but gasoline go up? It can't.
That means the shortage is in the pipeline from the refinery to the pump. Too few pipelines, gas reformulation, the drop of certain dangerous additives, all add up to the increase.
Or this is Enron-style California Energy scam on a wider scale.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I would be looking at hybrid cars more seriously, except for a few things such as the fact that they don't offer v6s, the hybrid models are usually very limited in terms of options, and the things haven't really been around that long...I don't trust 'em yet.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Hybrids make sense as an environmentally friendly alternative, but not as a money saver. The amount you save in gas is less than the amount extra you'd pay over a comparable vehicle over the expected lifetime of the car.
Edit: I should say that this is only how things are now. As time passes and hybrid technology matures and becomes more widely used it should become cheaper.
[ May 11, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: saxon75 ]
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Hybrids help a bit considering my mileage in a 85 Volvo 240.
Hybrids have been on the market 4-5 years now, pH, they are made by 2 high reliability companies (Honda and Toyota) and by all accounts they have lived up to their reputations.
If you want a V6, you are sorta defeating the purpose of having a hybrid. If there is one thing they are NOT designed for, it's speed/accfeleration.
However, supposedly there will be a V6 hybrid Honda Accord out in the fall or next spring. That may tickle your fancy.
-Bok
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Yes, but five years isn't exactly a long time, in the grand scheme of things. I need the acceleration of a v6 (my father would add, especially considering the way I drive...lies! ), and I really think I agree with my parents on waiting a while before running out to get a hybrid. Maybe after the car I'm getting next week dies, I'll feel more comfortable with hybrids. It'd also be cool if more than two companies started making them.
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
I was looking at the Honda Accord Hybrid yesterday, and it said it started at $19K new. Maybe my pricing sense is a little out of whack since I've only ever shopped for Volvos, but isn't that pretty reasonable for a car? Especially since Honda's are supposed to be so reliable?
<--- wants a Volvo XC Hybrid like there's no tomorrow. Posted by bCurt (Member # 5476) on :
I filled up this morning for $1.839. Some stations have gone down here since yesterday (barrel prices dropped a little due to an announcement from Saudi Arabia about increasing production by 1.5 million barrels).
$19k sounds reasonable. The hybrids have excellent acceleration. I've driven a Honda Insight and was impressed. An Accord or Prius would be more feasible. I would buy one if I could afford a new car.
The Ford Escape hybrid is coming soon and GM is coming out with some hybrid trucks in two years or so. I'm hoping for a hybrid minivan to take the family around in.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
ACK! Not only did they go up from yesterday to this morning -- $2.19 to $2.21 at the cheapest place nearby -- they ALSO went up from this morning to this afternoon! I had to pay $2.23! *dies*
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Yeah, I should add that the electric motor really kicks butt on low end acceleration. pH, you'd be one of the fastes of the line going from 0-20, say, but after that you'll eat most any car's dust.
Also, people are amazingly flexible creatures, and can adjust to new conditions
A Volvo XC hybrid _would_ rule.
Also, 5 years is actually a very decent time within which to make conclusions on a line. Generally, in the automotive world, if it doesn't break in the first 30k miles, it won't break until the end of it's expected lifetime. In fact, that's generally true of most manufactured things (bad computers generally manifest their issues fairly quickly, or never at all).
-Bok
EDIT: Ayelar, you were looking at the Civic Hybrid; there are no published specs on the Accord Hybrid yet, I believe. The Civic Hybrid is 19.5k for a stick, 20.5k for a CVT.
[ May 11, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Bokonon ]
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
aren't there much better, efficient cars that companies have developed, but not released? someone back me up on this?
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Well, in the past, big car companies have been known to buy up fledgling alt-power companies and just sort of sit on the research, for no apparent reason.
I mean, they could all start making aerodynamically efficient, gas-sipping econo-boxes tomorrow, but people (in the general sense) don't want them.
-Bok
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
The reason why hybrids don't have a V6 motor is because of one simple reason. The gasoline motor has nothing to do with the direct propulsion of the vehicle. The entire drivetrain is is powered by the electric motor. The electric motor is powered by batteries (nickel-metal hydride I believe), which are charged by the gasoline motor.
That is why a V6 motor would not increase actual torque, it would simply increase the rate of the battery charge. A "V6" car is called a V6 because it has six cylinders that are arranged in a pattern of a V. There are six cylinder cars that don't have a V6 motor.
I have a four cylinder car, but it's not a V4. My engine is a "boxed" engine (slang). The cylinders are horizontally opposed.
Does the help answer any questions?
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Nick, that's only generally true of the Prius. The Civic hybrid uses the electric motor as an acceleration assist. At least, that's what I've gathered from researching their sites and other online info.
-Bok
EDIT: I should add that Honda even utilizes a cylinder-control scheme where it will turn off some cylinders, based on the power need... SO that implies to me that the engine IS required, sometimes, to drive the vehicle, not just as a powerplant for the motor.
[ May 11, 2004, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Bokonon ]
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: aren't there much better, efficient cars that companies have developed, but not released? someone back me up on this?
I'll back you up on it.
They're called fuel cell cars, and they work by harnessing the electric current that is released when oxygen meets with hydrogen to form electricity. They accomplish this with a permeable layer that conducts electricity. Unfortunately, one of these layers only generates about .7 volts of electricity. But they are very thin, and can be stacked. You can create a large amount of electricity by doing this. It only needs a pure source of hydrogen (the challenge that GM, Daimler Chrysler, Ford, and Toyota are all facing) to run because there is not a shortage of oxygen. The only "exhaust" is heat and pure, distilled, drinkable water. More info: Click on the link on the right that says: "How fuel cells work" Here.
[ May 11, 2004, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I grew up driving V6 and V8s and have a four banger now with some damn good pickup.
...and have the tickets to prove it. o_O
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I didn't know that the Civic hybrid used it's combustion engine to help propel it. Could you provide how you learned this, I would like to see it. *is a visual learner* EDIT: I'm just not typing well today!
[ May 11, 2004, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I know what's up with that mack? Do cops target four cylinder vehicles? My first car was a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 (which had more pickup than almost any four cylinder! 5.2 V8 ) I never got a ticket in that car, but I got my Subaru wagon and I got a ticked a week later for 18 over the limit. Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: SO that implies to me that the engine IS required, sometimes, to drive the vehicle, not just as a powerplant for the motor.
How would that imply that that it would have to drive the vehicle? Maybe that means the the batteries are at full charge, and the engine does not have to run full speed to keep the batteries charged enough to run the electric motor.
Just a thought. You do seem to know more about the Civic Hybrid than I do, but I'm not seeing the logic there. Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
From the honda site:
quote:The latest version of Honda's Integrated Motor Assist (IMA™) system thrusts the Civic Hybrid to the forefront of hybrid technology. On the electric side of the power-producing equation is an ultra-thin brushless DC motor. Assisting the engine as needed, this highly efficient, compact unit increases total torque output by a whopping 66% at 1000 rpm. And conveniently enough, you never have to plug the Hybrid in for recharging.
-Bok
EDIT: I should add, that none of the in-production hybrids can drive without gas. They explicitly warn you in the guide to not drive the tank empty, even if you have a full battery pack.
[ May 11, 2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Bokonon ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Nick,
There are two general schemes for hybrid vehicle technology: the parallel configuration and the series configuration. In the series configuration, the electric motor does all the work of moving the vehicle while the engine only generates electricity for charging the battery. In the parallel configuration, both the engine and the motor work to move the vehicle, and the engine also generates electricity to charge the battery. You seem to be talking about the series configuration. But neither Honda nor Toyota uses a completely series configuration.
As Bok mentioned, Honda uses a parallel configuration. Toyota uses a sort of in-between configuration that acts like a series configuration at low speeds (under 15 mph) and a parallel configuration at freeway speeds.
Now, because most of where a high torque engine is working is low-end acceleration, you're probably right that the way the Prius is built wouldn't necessarily speed up acceleration by putting in a bigger engine (because at the low end the motor is doing all of the work). But it probably would make a difference when speeding up from, say, 40 to 60.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I bought my Prius last week. (28,000 miles, $15,000 from the dealer) It moves fine thank you. But if you drive like me it only gets 43 mpg on the highway.
As for options, I've got buttons for cd changers, gps mapping (the touch screen display is standard, it shows you the car's functions, an acts as the interface for the stereo) highway alerts, and so forth. When I touch the buttons the display reads "the external system is not connected" (In other words, you can buy it, but it's not on this unit) I think it's pretty cool that the radio displays the name of the song and the artist, along with the radio station's call letters. The little fuel mileage bar graph and power flow chart thingy is pretty neat too.
I've got automatic air conditioning, cruise control, ABS, factory alarm system, power windows and door locks. (And three trip odometers)
What options do you need?
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I never said anything about a specific car. I didn't know that hybrids had another way of working besides the series configuration (to use your words). I know now though. Thanks for the information, I always like learning new stuff about new "techy cars." Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Leather, for one.
I'd like to add, before you all go jumping on me for being a self-centered gas guzzler, I'm not the only one involved in the car decisions. My parents are paying for it, so if they want me to wait until my next car to look more carefully at hybrids, that's what's going to happen.
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Heh, pH, you're a college freshman and your parents are buying you... a new car? And you need leather? Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Interesting News:
I somehow got on the Saudi Arabian Embassy User Group. They send me mail once or twice a week. Enclosed is their most recent mail that came in yesterday:
quote: Saudi Arabia is calling for OPEC to increase oil production to prevent high crude prices from hindering global economic growth. According to a May 10 statement by Saudi Arabia’s Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources Ali Al-Naimi the OPEC production ceiling should increase by at least 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd), or just over six percent.
Al-Naimi said that such an increase was "essential" to balance global supply and demand after prices spiked to $40 a barrel last week, adding that the Kingdom is committed to “maintaining sufficient supplies to avoid price fluctuation that might have a negative effect on producers, consumers and the oil industry as a whole.”
Al-Naimi attributed international increases of oil prices to a number of causes, such as the market's unwarranted fear of disruption in oil supplies, “the trend among traders and investors to purchase and maintain long-term contracts for commodities such as oil” and “the expected shortage in some types of gasoline in the United States as a result of the stringent environmental regulations that have aggravated the crisis and contributed to price increases both in products and crude.”
"We ... do not want to see prices rise to the level that they negatively affect the growth of the international economy or the demand for oil," said Al-Naimi. "It is apparent that demand, especially in Asia, has been increasing, and will continue to increase in the second half of this year."
The Saudi proposal will be reviewed by other OPEC oil ministers at the International Energy Forum in Amsterdam on May 22-24 and Al-Naimi will “try to reach an understanding for an increase in the production ceiling” at the June 3 OPEC meeting in Beirut.
Good news.
They went further in a follow up news letter. They suggested reading This Reuters article on why gas prices are going up.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Ayelar: If my parents want to get me a car with leather, hey. Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Hey, if they're feeling generous, I could use a little lovin' up here... Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Dan, I heard a story relating that "Saudi Arabia is calling for OPEC to increase oil production to prevent high crude prices from hindering global economic growth" on the news yesterday morning.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I missed it, but I love their e-mails that keep saying, "Hey, Its not our fault."
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
*wants leather too*
I hope I can find a VW Golf with leather than I an afford no older than a 2000. With less that 50,000 miles. Not possible I know, but I can dream right?
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Since this is my thread, and I can derail it all I want, ha ha ha.... why is leather seating seen as more desirable in cars? Our old Volvo had blue fabric, and our new one has tan leather, and I have to say I really preferred the fabric. Sure, it didn't look as fancy, but it was a lot less affected by weather conditions and wasn't as slippery. And we're supposed to use this leather conditioner to care for it? Pff.
I guess I need me one o' dem fine sheepskin covers, like them's at the gas station. Mighty fine.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
OPEC does not really care about the world economy. The real reason they try to keep crude prices from going to high is alternate fuel. Right now gas prices are not enough to motivate most Americans to buy an alt fuel car...nor is it enough for the government to put more money into research in these types of cars. However, OPEC realizes that if things get to bad, we will put more effort into alt fuel sources (or hybrid) and once that happens, OPEC is through for good. The hardest thing about changing fuel sources is setting up the infrastructure...once that is done, keeping it up is easy. If OPEC looses America, they are screwed. Right now they are flirting with a very dangerous price range. It is getting to the range where people are started to get pissed off, and are talking more about other sources. I believe that if the average gas price in the USA gets up to 3 bucks within the next couple of years, there will be a bigger push for the alt fuel sources…leading to a decrease in fuel usage, which will nail OPEC.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Well, I bought my Prius used, so leather wasn't an option. I don't know whether it's available or not.
But as far as that goes, I don't like leather seats either. You might as well get vinyl. I'll take cloth any day.
Bush and Cheney say that "you can't reach energy independence through conservation." That's almost as good as "WAR IS PEACE - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY - IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"
The ONLY way to achieve energy independence is through conservation. What? Are we supposed to achieve energy independence through consumption?
Posted by bCurt (Member # 5476) on :
An old thread but is humorous to see what we thought were high gas prices.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
So in seven years, it's gone up about 200%? There's some impressive inflation.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Wow, that's insane. I wish I only had to pay 2 bucks for a gallon of gas. I just can't believe we've already hit 4 dollars. Now THAT is crazy. How does gas double in price in less than a decade, anyway? Do they even know?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
It was near 5 dollars three years ago in California. I sold my car and left the country.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: So in seven years, it's gone up about 200%? There's some impressive inflation.
I wonder what we'll be paying in another 7 years.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Frogs. We are frogs in hot water.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Personally, I don't think its a big deal. My auto insurance (with no accidents affecting the rate) still costs more than gasoline. And Canadians are working, if my calculations are correct, with 20% higher prices for gasoline, not accounting for the exchange rate which would bump it up a couple extra percent.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
If we're using less gas as a result, I can't help but see the higher prices as a good thing.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
This happens over and over again, and will continue to do so until literally there just isn't enough gasoline to go around, and people are forced to adapt.
edit: Or until somebody brilliant develops an energy source that can power a vehicle cheaply yet as efficiently. It does not have to be cheaper than gas now, just cheaper than what gas will be down the road.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: This happens over and over again, and will continue to do so until literally there just isn't enough gasoline to go around, and people are forced to adapt.
edit: Or until somebody brilliant develops an energy source that can power a vehicle cheaply yet as efficiently. It does not have to be cheaper than gas now, just cheaper than what gas will be down the road.
Or if we actually get the massive amounts of oil that we have in our own country instead of worrying about a little frog or fish that will be affected by it.
I'm down with nuclear powered cars though.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: This happens over and over again, and will continue to do so until literally there just isn't enough gasoline to go around, and people are forced to adapt.
edit: Or until somebody brilliant develops an energy source that can power a vehicle cheaply yet as efficiently. It does not have to be cheaper than gas now, just cheaper than what gas will be down the road.
Or if we actually get the massive amounts of oil that we have in our own country instead of worrying about a little frog or fish that will be affected by it.
I'm down with nuclear powered cars though.
The only oil we have in this country in "massive amounts" is shale oil. The stuff in Alaska and the Gulf is nice, but is dramatically less than is necessary to sate our appetite for oil. Our shale oil deposits, on the other hand, are massive. We're the Saudi Arabia of shale oil. The down side, is that it is extremely expensive to extract, even more expensive to refine, and is incredibly harmful to the surrounding environment even with the expensive measures taken to protect the surrounding areas. Thankfully that's changing a bit as new technologies come online - far less invasive ones. But even so, shale oil only works when oil costs $100+, since it costs almost $90 a barrel to produce.
Most new oil finds, the big ones, are in hyper deep ocean wells, like that big find the Brazilians had a year or two ago that was touted as bigger than a Saudi Super-well. Those, too, are very expensive, and very dangerous to extract.
We're far beyond the low hanging fruit. Everything going forward is extreme oil, and that means it's all expensive, even if there's still quite a bit of it left. Thankfully, American demand for oil is actually dropping year over year, and the trend is starting to hold as Americans buy more and more fuel efficient cars that reduce our long term demand for oil. I give Obama a lot of credit for forcing tougher and tougher CAFE standards on the auto companies. They've come up with some great cars, and especially companies like Ford, have managed to do it while not only NOT going bankrupt, but with the biggest profits they've seen in a decade. They have to move more volume and rely on smaller profits per car, but that's a 21st century reality regardless, and has little to do with Obama.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: This happens over and over again, and will continue to do so until literally there just isn't enough gasoline to go around, and people are forced to adapt.
edit: Or until somebody brilliant develops an energy source that can power a vehicle cheaply yet as efficiently. It does not have to be cheaper than gas now, just cheaper than what gas will be down the road.
Or if we actually get the massive amounts of oil that we have in our own country instead of worrying about a little frog or fish that will be affected by it.
I'm down with nuclear powered cars though.
Hope you enjoy cancer babies, dirty water, acid rain, etc etc if you push aside environmental protections.
I'm a big fan of nuclear power and electric/hydrogen cars. As nuclear power is arguably cleaner than hydroelectric and vastly cleaner than coal plants by an order of magnitude.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
quote:Or if we actually get the massive amounts of oil that we have in our own country instead of worrying about a little frog or fish that will be affected by it.
The oil in the US couldn't affect the prices of gas noticeably.
quote:If we're using less gas as a result, I can't help but see the higher prices as a good thing.
Yep. Prices are by far the best way to change our gasoline habits.
quote:This happens over and over again, and will continue to do so until literally there just isn't enough gasoline to go around, and people are forced to adapt.
The nifty thing about undistorted price signals is, everything adjusts automatically.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
The less nifty thing is that actual people get squeezed in the adjusting.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Indeed. However, the reality is even more people get squeezed even more if you try to stop the adjusting. That doesn't mean that the effects of squeezing can't be reduced, just that trying to do so by stopping the adjusting is a very bad idea.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Sure. I just don't happen to think it is all that nifty.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I'm sure there are lots of things you think are nifty that are connected somehow to some people not being so well off. All I said was that it was nifty things adjust automatically when price signals are allowed to operate, not that it was nifty certain people became worse off.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Its nifty the same way watching a tornado going through new york city would be nifty.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: This happens over and over again, and will continue to do so until literally there just isn't enough gasoline to go around, and people are forced to adapt.
edit: Or until somebody brilliant develops an energy source that can power a vehicle cheaply yet as efficiently. It does not have to be cheaper than gas now, just cheaper than what gas will be down the road.
Or if we actually get the massive amounts of oil that we have in our own country instead of worrying about a little frog or fish that will be affected by it.
I'm down with nuclear powered cars though.
It's not about the "poor little" frogs and fishes. It's more about there having no fishes for people to eat. Or, the soil is too poor to use for crops without the use of fertilizers which require an immense amount of energy to produce.
Read Jared Diamond's Collapse (he also wrote Guns, Germs and Steel), which shows rather directly the correlation between poor environmental decisions and the collapse of many historical civilizations. Our habitats are not too big to screw up.
While we're at it, you should read Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemma. The book has a very good description of the way corn subsides have discouraged crop rotation in favor of plastic fertilizers which use an incredible amount of oil to produce, both subsidized by our tax dollars, and the run-off from which is killing the fishing industry inthe Gulf of Mexico (well, before the oil spill torpedoed it).
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I guess I'm going to have to go back to donating plasma just so I can get back and forth to work/school/stuff.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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), but do you really need a 5.9 liter Dodge Hemi Durango/Ram? A 5.7 liter Toyota iForce Tundra/Sequoia? A 5.9 liter Ford Expedition/Explorer? These are pointless to own. I live in a valley flatter than a pancake, and yet these SUV drivers comprise over 50% of the cars on the road in my area, and they don't tow anything. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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