I think a lack of empathy is killing our society and I think it's worse in the US than it is here in Australia - but we're getting there as well. We're turning into the romans, and Reality TV is just our first step along the path to a shiny new Colosseum. let's face it, we not there to watch a bunch of good people do great works, we're there to watch a bunch of people connive, scheme and backstab their closest companions.
We're growing to enjoy each other's pain again, we seem to care less for our neighbours and seem to actively seek the downfall of others for small or imagined slights.
I know that we've always been petty, selfish creatures, but it just seems to me that it's getting worse. Am I wrong?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I watched the first Survivor because of Colleen.
I watched the second cause of Elizabeth.
So I don't think I qualify . That is unless routing for nice, sweet, and beautiful girls to win money is a bad thing...
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Damn you for ruining my theory!!!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
As I have stated before, I have an extreme lack of empathy. It's probably my greatest weakness as a human being.
But I hate reality shows. It's been years since I saw a single episode of one.
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
I've had this thought before. I think it's an easy comparison. But what really worries me about Western culture, America specifically, is all the paperwork.
Yes, I did say paperwork.
You can't open a bank account without reams of identification. God help the person who doesn't drive (no driver's license) or the person who won't have their picture taken for religious reasons (I know some Amish sects will not).
Every transaction (from buying groceries to international relations) is accompanied by an ever increasing amount of paperwork.
Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have receipts, legal documentation, etc. But it seems to me that we're creating more and more to no particularly good end.
Have you ever seen Terry Gilliam's Brazil?
Posted by goblin (Member # 6539) on :
lack of empathy is probably the biggest problem facing us today. when we are so wrapped up in ourselves that we no longer care what happens to others, so long as it doesn't happen to us, is a sure sign of serious trouble. when are we going to wake up and realize that what happens to one of us affects all of us.
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Brazil is a mighty work of cinematography.
Ironically, considering the means by which we are discussing the topic, I think technology is playing it's part.
It's not that we were never petty or selfish or lacking in empathy before, but we're now given a much greater scope to indulge in it due to technology allowing us to distance ourselves from everything except the perception of what we want the other person on the other end of the internet connection to be like.
Why do you think text messaging is popular? It's more expensive than making a phone call, but in Australia, Europe and much of Asia it's a multi-billion dollar industry. Why? Because it's even further removed from personalised communication than the phone. We like to interpret people in our own way, and pesky things like intonation and body language just go to show that the other person is a seperate sentient entity, not just a bit player in our personal filmography.
or something.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
anyone see Series 7?
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
I saw that a couple of years ago. I forget much of the actual details of the plot, but the idea (I thought at the time) was wonderfully cynical of our "reality tv" infatuation. And that was before reality tv really got popular!
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
On the other hand, eliminating body language and such goes a long way toward wiping out the interpersonal frictions we create with inadvertant messages. Online, I can *smile* without anyone noticing that my smile is lopsided. I can *LMAO* even when a joke isn't funny at all. People don't have to worry that they are being seen as geeks, or dumb jocks, or blond sex objects, because no one can see what they look like.
For my part, I have such difficulty seeing body language anyway that the internet actually puts me much more at ease talking to people. I could never walk up to a group of twenty people and start chatting away--but I can easily waltz into Hatrack Chat and do the same.
Posted by Audeo (Member # 5130) on :
Has anyone heard of the new Fox show Superstar? That's what this topic made me think of. They are deliberately taking people who have little or no talent and turning down people with good voices telling them that they're terrible, all for an elaborate hoax.
I haven't and won't actually watch the show, it would be too cruel to support something like that, but it seems to be a symptom of the lack of empathy. I was talking to someone today and he told me, "Well if people who are that untalented think they're good, they deserve to whatever comes their way."
I was taken aback. Being self-confident, even if they're not particularly good, is not a bad trait, but mocking people and humiliating them on national television for it is just wrong. Furthermore they're raising their hopes and crushing the dreams of those with real talent. I realize America is a bit of a meritocracy, but it seems that we've gone a step shallower.
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Mabus - Do you think you're a *better* person online than you are in the real world?
See this is something I see as definitive about the way we're changing. Everyone at some time or another winds up being mildly seduced by the 'nets anonimity, and acts like a jerk, or at least more outspoken than they might ordinarily be.
The 'net has no repercussions, so they act like jerks - because they can. We see a bit of it here, but we all know that it's worse outside our hallowed grounds.
However this jerk-ness seems to be translating into real-life as well.
I learned a lesson from this many years ago. I realised that I was a very different person online than I was in real life, I was the version of myself I'd most like to be. Additionally I was a lot more open and honest that I was in real life.
After meeting a few people online, I was constantly disappointed how they were much more closed-off in real life than they were online. But when they weren't it was an amazing experience! I decided that I didn't want to be two different people and have worked towards being the best person I can be - online and off, and also to only be as open online as I am in real life.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
*wedgies troub*
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
I don't know, Troubadour. Maybe somewhat I am a better person online. But there's also my lack of perception, which isn't something that can be so easily remedied. Maybe it can be improved with time and practice. I have had 28 years, though.
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Fair enough, Mabus. Body language is something I'm particularly sensitive to - passed down from my Mother's side, who are all abnormally freaky when it comes to knowing what you're thinking, and it's something I've inherited to a lesser extent, so I guess it would figure more prominently for me.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
There is a counter current on line.
I have friends from around the world, all of whom seem to care about me, and I care about them.
So when there is a tragedy in India, I am more prone to notice and care. When there is a problem in Iran or an earthquake in Egypt I definately respond.
And they respond to all that happens in the US as well. If a Hurricane hits Florida (and I live in Missouri) I get emails and phone calls making sure I am all right.
I think the aninimity of the web works to break down some of the walls we build up against "the Others."
You can't make a racial joke because the person you are talking with may be of that race. Same with sex, religion, or anything else that we often use to divide the others from us.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That superstar idea sounds horrid. There's a big difference between a lack of empathy and being just plain mean and cruel. I have be the former, but I am not the latter.
Posted by Lara (Member # 132) on :
Troubadour, that is so true! About online communication being different than in person. It would make an interesting psychological study.
[ May 19, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Lara ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
To me there's no difference. None. I'm exactly the same person online as in real life, I think. And my friends are as well. I don't see any decrease in empathy.
I think this is the start of a new golden age. Like at the beginning of the industrial revolution, which was really a revolution in all arts, when the proximity of people in cities led to a ramping up of all skills and knowledge, due to ideas playing off each other, and to competition. Now we're all in one big city, the largest ever, and the explosion in the arts and sciences is already happening.
I am not sure why we're at such opposite poles on this issue, Troubs.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Anne Kate, people who are exactly the same online and offline are a rarity. I personally think that MY personality's pretty similar in both "places," too, but I know enough people in both spheres to readily admit that it's not the norm.
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Explosion in arts and sciences? Like new and better ways to create porn sites and get penis enlargement ads past spam filters?
I'm not really seeing this explosion in arts and sciences. If anything, I'm seeing our society becoming increasingly LESS intelligent and interested in anything more complex than the latest FOX reality show.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
The only time I ever saw a real difference was one person I had known offline for two years and thought he was nice. When I got to know him online I realized he was a real creep. (He was one of those people who are meek and gentle in real life only because they feel powerless there, and who are hackers online because it gives them a feeling of power or manhood they otherwise lack.) Once I knew that, the signs were there in real life too, I had just not seen their significance before. So in the one case where the different realms displayed different aspects of someone's character, the online aspect was more real, or truer to the heart of who the person was.
[ May 20, 2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Ayelar, maybe you're looking in the wrong places?
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
ak, thanks for posting. I'm too utterly tired to discuss this right now, but I'd definitely like to talk about it further. Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Where are you looking, ak? I'd love to see examples of how our culture might actually be growing more intelligent... Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Tolkien had a good thought on this. He was coming up with ideas for a possible sequel to LOTR, and the only story that he could come up with was the eventual boredom and restlessness of people with peace and prosperity. The youth starting "orc-cults" and corruption in the government... eventually he abandoned the idea as not worth telling but he makes a good point about human nature. We NEED a little chaos and conflict or we will create it on our on.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I agree with Telperion. The people I know who live the calmest lives, fictionless are seemingly always creating problems for themselves, dealing with the darkside, saying and doing things that will get them into trouble.
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
quote: I realised that I was a very different person online than I was in real life, I was the version of myself I'd most like to be. Additionally I was a lot more open and honest that I was in real life.
quote: So in the one case where the different realms displayed different aspects of someone's character, the online aspect was more real, or truer to the heart of who the person was.
I think that people are more confidant online. Since no one knows who we are, no one can mock our failures and so we do whatever we want. It's up to the individual to decide if they want to try being a bully, a seductress, or an intellectual, but it's almost like we create a character online who represents what we wish we were brave enough to be in real life.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: We NEED a little chaos and conflict or we will create it on our on.
Maybe some of us, but not all of us. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Hey...look... I'm just making up a little hypothesis....about human nature...
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. That is unless routing for nice, sweet, and beautiful girls to win money is a bad thing...
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