The American Flag. Children across the country pledge to it every day. Bumper stickers/decals on cars displaying it are pervasive throughout the roads. The people supporting the US and it's policies proudly display it, while enemies of the country burn it.
Do people pay too much attention to the flag? My school, the University of Florida, next year is placing American flags in every classroom at the cost of about $10,000 (the campus is VERY large). I know this isn't that a giant sum of money, but I think that this money could be better spent on new technology, improving buildings, etc.
It's not that I don't support the country, I just think that flags in classrooms should be left to elementary/middle/high school.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I am all for placing flags in every classroom. I think it's a great idea. I think it's a worthwhile use of the school's money.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
I have no issue with the flag. My issue is with those that suddenly start parading it in xenophobic frenzy.
Patriotism suddenly blooms, after some event or another, and reactionaries start waving it everywhere. After 9/11, I was disgusted by those that stuck flags on their cars and drove them around until the flags were in tatters. They leave the flags in the rain as well. They display the flags at night with no light to illuminate them. These are all disrespectful towards the flag.
Sticking a flag on your rear window of your Japanese car is the worst. If you really want to support the US, why don't you buy a domestic auto?
Oh, well. I'm done raving now. Thanks.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
It's much harder to breed rabid patriotism/nationalism and create another "red scare" (WMD, terrorists, etc.) without the use of daily visual and verbal reinforcements. Now, if only we could figure out a way to make sure all those stay-at-home moms see the flag everyday.
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
Well, because there's no way to be sure your domestic auto is really domestic and your foreign car is really foreign unless you look at all the parts. A lot of cars that are supposedly made in one country are actually composed mostly of parts from many others and barely have the model name slapped on in the country that supposedly "made" them.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
My car is over 90% manufactured in the US. And the parts as well.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
But the Japanese made cars last longer...
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
The US should be spray-prainted with an american flag so big it can be seen from space. Then those brave astronauts can shed a tear when they see the greatest thing known to man.
Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
I think this is a good investment. When I was a small child, we said the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school (through junior high). Now, in Texas, my son and his children are no longer required to do this. They do not listen to the National Anthem each morning either (we did). There are just as many Mexican flags as American flags flying in this town. Most of the stores that fly both fly them at the same height. OUr kids need to know what country they live and and develop some form of patriotism. These things are important.
By the way, we recently moved here from New Mexico, where my son did recite the Pledge and the New Mexico pledge each morning.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
I don't know...most college students have a hard time paying for their education...and I would rather see the funding going on enhancing the education.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Yeah, Jebus, there you go, that would show them.
I personally like seeing the American flag. I don't necessarily equate its presence with a big show of aggression. It can be used that way, but I don't think putting flags in classrooms is some big propaganda ploy. Yes, there's definitely a context for this action, but I don't think it's an aggressive, oppressive response by the school. That's jumping to conclusions a bit fast.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote: develop some form of patriotism. These things are important.
Why?
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: By the way, we recently moved here from New Mexico, where my son did recite the Pledge and the New Mexico pledge each morning.
New Mexico has a pledge??? What are the ... lyrics?
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote: Yeah, Jebus, there you go, that would show them.
Show who? Would it be a punishment to astronauts to see their own flag?
quote:I personally like seeing the American flag. I don't necessarily equate its presence with a big show of aggression. It can be used that way, but I don't think putting flags in classrooms is some big propaganda ploy. Yes, there's definitely a context for this action, but I don't think it's an aggressive, oppressive response by the school. That's jumping to conclusions a bit fast.
Who said it was?
::salutes flag::
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Patriotism (or rather the nationalism that ultimately underlies any sort of patriotism) is an increasingly useless, and detrimental, ideal.
That said, while I think it's kind of silly (if you have true pride in the USA, you don't need to compensate by setting up flags everywhere, and if you are worried about flagging patriotism, I can think of many, more long-lasting, constructive ways of encouraging pride in one's country than putting up flags that will not be properly cared for), I figure that if that's how UF wants to spend its money, go for it.
-Bok
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:I can think of many, more long-lasting, constructive ways of encouraging pride in one's country than putting up flags that will not be properly cared for
Like getting a new country?
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: I figure that if that's how UF wants to spend its money, go for it.
But it's not really their money. It comes from the taxpayers and the students. I do agree that it's a waste.
What is the reason they're giving for doing so?
BTW, I heard Burrito Brothers is going to close. Is that true?
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
jebus, I refuse to be so cynical.
zan, I wasn't sure if the university was private or public... Since it's public, I'll simply amend my statement from "how UF..." to "how the people of Florida..." If they want to stop this, it's their choice. I certainly am not going to stop them (being a MA resident and all).
-Bok
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Having flags flying outside public buildings is fine, and if a particular teacher/educator/other person, wants to have a flag in his or her workspace, that's fine, but in every room...!
It's sort of like everyone typing all the time with caps lock on: THIS IS OUR MESSAGE! PAY ATTENTION! THIS IS AMERICA! HELLOOOOO!
Patriotism is not symbols everywhere, but dignity, the fact that the people don't have to say who they are. They know, and that's enough.
EDIT: Typo demon.
[ May 26, 2004, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Understood Bok. I would like to know where this comes from. Did the student government come up with this or the administration?
I think the University of Central Florida did this recently and I believe it was the student government that brought it up.
Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
Here is the New Mexico pledge that I mentioned. My wife did this from memory, so may be missing a part.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the state of New Mexico, the Zia symbol: a perfect friendship among united cultures
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I personally like seeing the flag. It reminds me of the freedom and values this country was founded on. The actions of our leaders don't always line up with what the flag represents, and that's pretty sad. Maybe there should be more flags around the White House and the Capitol as well.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote:At UF, the situation is a bit more complicated and everyone involved seems to have a different version.
Guillette introduced the proposal at the last minute at a student government meeting last summer, failing to go through the committee process first. The student senate eventually approved spending $8,000 for the flags, though only after members discussed whether it would be better to erect three large flags.
UF provost David Colburn formed a committee of faculty and students to study the issue. The group will recommend in a few weeks that one flag be flown alongside a plaque commemorating Sept. 11 as a more meaningful tribute.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
kaioshin, You are at UF? I am as well...when I first saw you post I thought, wow...my school is doing the same thing, then I looked again and saw that your school is my school
As for the flags, the alligator (school paper) said it is actually a new state law that says all classrooms must have flags...though the state of course leaves the schools to pay for it.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: BTW, I heard Burrito Brothers is going to close. Is that true?
they have a burrito brothers?? I know people were protesting Taco bell a few months ago.
quote: As for the flags, the alligator (school paper) said it is actually a new state law that says all classrooms must have flags...though the state of course leaves the schools to pay for it.
Oh.. I didn't know that Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, if they really need flags in every room, why not ask the art students to PAINT 'em?
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: they have a burrito brothers
If you don't know what Burrito Brothers is, I'm going to have to doubt that you're really a UF student.
A couple of things caught my eye in that article.
quote: Administrators suggest a single flag be erected on campus instead.
There's not already at least one flag there?
quote: Emily Ruff, co-chairwoman of the UCF Progressive Council, which represents nine groups such as Greenpeace, said some students oppose the flags because they worry they will offend others, including international students.
If you're attending in college in a foreign country, why would you be offended that that country's flag is flying anywhere they happen to put it?
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:There's not already at least one flag there?
::shock:: B-b-but how will people be patriotic without one?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Jebus, I love you. Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
WEll zgator, I do go to UF, though I've never heard of this Burrito Brothers place... is it good?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
If you have ever lived anywhere other than the USA Bok, I doubt you would say that patriotism is useless or meaningless. Most of the people I know who have immigrated from other, less fortunate places in the world, are very patriotic and are glad to be here.
I don't like seeing the flag improperly cared for, and I don't think that patriotism is always a good thing, but i do think it has a place in the modern world. Too much zeal and it can be the cause of a lot of pain and trouble, but the same is true of just about anything. I am very patriotic, and my family is too, but we don't go around waving the flag in other peoples faces.
I had a condo association try to get me to remove my flag 8-9 years ago, and I had a problem with that. However, it turned out that the association rules prohibited flags of any sort in the front of the building. So rather than bitch and moan, we simply moved it to the back railing on the deck.
If you don't like this country, why live here? I don't think that every person who flies the flag is a patriot, but I don't see anything wrong with a public university choosing to show it's support of our way of life by buying and showing flags.
As for spending the money on students, ask the Student Council how much it costs the football team for the pads they wear. Why should football (and all the other sports and activities) be allowed to spend money on a game that a lot of students don't care about?
To me, flags are the better investment in our future.
Kwea
[ May 26, 2004, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Football is a big part of UF. Of course they're going to spend money on it.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
quote:WEll zgator, I do go to UF, though I've never heard of this Burrito Brothers place... is it good?
It is very good (unless you don't like mexican). lol, they will also ship burritos so if you get hooked on them now, you can still get them after you move away.
man, it seems like there are several gators here. small world.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
Who else is a goatr?
translateion:
who else is a gator
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm not, but I was at a concert there last week...someplace called Neutral Ground or something? Oh, and your Holiday Inn is a ripoff...
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
quote:Most of the people I know who have immigrated from other, less fortunate places in the world, are very patriotic and are glad to be here.
You mean like the ones who fled to the U.S. to avoid tyranny?
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!" - Einstein
Granted, Albert was a wussy pacifist. Perhaps instead we should look to those who fought for their freedom.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - Washington
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote: If you don't like this country, why live here?
So thinking that $10,000 could be spent in better ways than buying a bunch of flags means you don't like the U.S.? And why do there need to be flags there? I really doubt that the Pledge of Allegiance is said before every class at UF. Would the students forget what country they're in without the flag there reminding them?
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
quote:f you don't like this country, why live here?
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