I was just watching a televangelist on TV, and I went through some thought processes I wanted to get up on screen.
This pasture was just gesticulating and pontificating and getting his audience all riled up, and I sat back and thanked God I was raised Mormon. I love the still quiet testimony and prayers I learned as a child. I heard once in my religion that the only emotion/feeling that Satan cannot imitate is peace.
I was sitting there being grateful for the degree of testimony I posses, and then I went through one of my doubting logic loops. I was watching and then started thinking, "WTF is up with Christianity?!" I stepped out of my LDS paradigm (as I am prone to do) and thought that nothing makes sense. It is all false. There is no Creator, Messiah, or Father in Heaven.
I jumped back to my beliefs in evolution and life being a random event that ends with death. There is no cosmic purpose; life and death and everything in between are just energy transfers.
If it is all energy transfer, doesn't anyone else think this (meaning everything---wars, televangelists, Mcdonalds, relationships, and whatever else we discuss here on hatrack or experience in life) is an incredibly strange way for energy to behave?
What is mind?
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
quote: If it is all energy transfer, doesn't anyone else think this (meaning everything---wars, televangelists, Mcdonalds, relationships, and whatever else we discuss here on hatrack or experience in life) is an incredibly strange way for energy to behave?
no. how could it be?
quote:What is mind?
a terrible thing to waste?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If it's all energy transfers, how can you possibly assign the value "strange" to it? At worst, you can call it "inefficient" or "unnecessarily complex." But, then, if this is a universe created by a benevolent God, those adjectives would apply just as well.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Tom, I think the phrase "unnecessary altogether" would be more appropriate, since "necessity" implies a purpose. Necessary for what?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
On the contrary, chaos theory proves that reality is very simple. If the rules were complex, we would be unable to discern patterns, and thus would have no concept of rules. As for Benevolence, even an imperfect understanding of those rules can give shape to tools for choosing ones own path through chaos. What more would one want?
[ May 27, 2004, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:What is mind?
No matter.
"What is matter?"
Never mind.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Is "pasture" supposed to be a pastor or posture? I think your inability to spell might indicate a lack of the light of intelligence in your life.
I think if Satan can appear as an angel of light, he can also appear as the golden arches. That is, there are substrates of mind that are not the mind of God. Mind is the relationship of minds. Are you familiar with Kierkegaard's definition of the self?
P.S. I think you succumbed to doubt because you were feeling prideful of how better Mormons are than most. But I only have your words to go by. I don't know what you were really thinking.
[ May 27, 2004, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Alexa,
To quote Lazlo Hollifeld, "You're right."
But, honestly, if watching Televangelists going at it is enough to shake your belief, you probably need to toughen up a little bit.
Besides, I think that Televangelists are closer to Mormons than Christians. Well, they're just one letter different (please, no offense to Mormons!)
When I watch Televangelists, I think, "Thank God I was raised an atheist!"
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
Gratitude and pride are two different things pooka. I would never assume someone is proud because they thought a 14 year old boy who claims to see God was ridiculous. I try to judge my self how I judge others. I think pastors (my second time to spell this word in my life) look ridiculous...well, televangelist pastors look ridiculous.
quote:Are you familiar with Kierkegaard's definition of the self?
I am familiar with Fear and Trembling , however, I prefer Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind .
quote: If it's all energy transfers, how can you possibly assign the value "strange" to it? At worst, you can call it "inefficient" or "unnecessarily complex."
That’s just it! I CAN assign value to it. Value means something to me. If I am just the synergy of all my parts, where does awareness come from? Where does mind come from? If there is no spiritual or GOD (which often makes more sense to me then the traditional concept of "Grandfather God" in a white robe with long hair), then I am just another physical part of this valueless universe. Since I can assign value to my life and personal judgments on televangelists, somewhere in this transfer of energy you get both mind and awareness. I am having an existentialist crisis right now. Sometimes that causes panic attacks, last night and this morning I had a really bad panic attack.
Panic attacks are the best argument for the consumption of alcohol in my opinion! lol
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
quote: But, honestly, if watching Televangelists going at it is enough to shake your belief, you probably need to toughen up a little bit.
Watching televangelists did not shake my faith. Watching televangelists reminded me of how strange behavior can be. Oddly enough, strange behavior makes me think there must be a God. It seems really strange that the evolution of how matter and energy interact could produce a phenomenon of someone acting in a televangelistic way with a spectator formulating opinions on how silly it seems.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
This question occured to me last night: Does alcohol really kill brain cells? That seemed to be the quick explanation when I was a kid. I think I've heard it on the Simpson's as well.
I tend to think it's more a matter that seeing alcohol as a solution to problems prevents growth. Anyone know?
P.S. Dagonee said gratitude becomes pride when it is about what others don't have and not what you do have. Like I said, I only have your words to go by, I don't know what you were feeling. I am judging you, but with the aim in mind of helping answer questions that you asked.
[ May 27, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
It really kills brain cells, via asphyxiation. That's the line I've always heard, and having drunk a fair bit in my day, I would tend to agree.
-Bok
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
quote: I love the still quiet testimony and prayers I learned as a child. I was sitting there being grateful for the degree of testimony I posses…
My feelings were about what I posses. I was in no way thinking about what "they" don't have.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
That is, there are substrates of mind that are not the mind of God. Mind is the relationship of minds. Are you familiar with Kierkegaard's definition of the self?