quote:Courtney Glowczewski has gone through two grades hearing the taunts - "disease" is a particularly cruel one put on the 12-year-old, who has cerebral palsy.
Her mother says Courtney has been tormented by classmates and ignored by indifferent teachers and administrators.
Then came came May 17, when Courtney said a seventh-grade classmate threatened her with a small plastic knife and lit her hair on fire.
But even that wasn't the worst of it.
Courtney was the one sent home for the rest of the school year and told to forget about taking her exams, while nothing happened to the boy accused of bullying her.
"They were just getting rid of the problem is all they were doing," said Sherrie Glowczewski, Courtney's mother. "I can't believe she has to put up with all of this."
The Denver Public Schools' administration, after being alerted to the incident by a story on Denver's 7 on Wednesday, has now disciplined the classmate, apologized for the incident and admitted that administrators at Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School handled the matter inappropriately.
"There were serious lapses in our processes and our standards," said DPS spokesman Mark Stevens. "Victims of harassment and bullying need support and outreach and our full attention."
Sherrie Glowczewski said police were never called by the school after Courtney reported the assault. Further, her daughter was told to clean out her locker - alone - before her mother arrived to pick her up.
"She needed to be protected at that school," Sherrie Glowczewski said. "And even after this happened, nobody protected her. They let her roam the halls."
Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School had the most fights of any school in the state, according to statistics released in September. Sherrie Glowczewski says what happened to her daughter grows out of an environment in which children can be disruptive with impunity.
"I know that for many students at Martin Luther King Middle School, that's not the case. But we certainly respect what has happened to (Courtney)," Stevens said.
Stevens said the school will have new leadership during the next school year. The school is currently led by an interim principal.
Stevens said the school district has asked to meet with the Glowczewskis to make amends for how Courtney was treated. And the school has offered to enroll Courtney in summer classes and provide transportation for her to make up for the lost work.
"What kind of offer is that?" Sherrie Glowczewski asked. "Kids who go to summer school, it's because they're not passing."
Courtney is a strong student, her mother said, despite the harassment. She doesn't want to go to summer school, either.
"I didn't do anything wrong," Courtney said.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
So it's been less than two weeks -- shouldn't be that hard to allow her back, maybe arrange for a tutor to help her make up any missed work (and you better believe the school is both doing the arranging and the paying!), and let her take her exams.
If the exams have already happened, then make arrangements for her to take them in a week or so. No reason why this poor girl should be forced to attend weeks and weeks of summer school for the school's mistake!
Talk about blaming the victim. Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
Someone lit her hair on fire and SHE was sent home? This kind of situation is what our civil court system was designed for.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
rivka,
those are my feelings exactly. They should have offered a tutor upfront and whatever arrangements were necessary in regard to missed exams.
The fact that they've offered summer school even after admitting the girl was mistreated by the system isn't exactly a sign that they're accepting full responsibility for this.
I also think the principal and any other administrator involved in this should be suspended now, pending investigation and review.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
We could have all the teachers and the principal beaten until they have brain damage.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: jebus202 ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I was wondering why you cut off the very last line (quote) of that article when you pasted it here Stephen.
Obviously, Denver Public Schools can't protect against every incident of bullying. But DPS can claim only gross negligence for failing to act in the case of Courtney Glowczewski, the seventh-grader at Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School who has cerebral palsy and who for the better part of two years has been tormented by classmates because of her disability.
Neither school administrators nor teachers adequately addressed the harassment reported to them by Glowczewski and her mother. Then earlier this month a classmate reportedly threatened Glowczewski with a plastic knife and set her hair on fire. Instead of disciplining her assailant, the school sent Glowczewski home for the rest of the school year.
Caught out, DPS disciplined the offending student and is groveling to make amends for Glowczewski's deplorable treatment - as it probably should, since the case has "lawsuit" written all over it. The next step should be some discipline for the assistant principal who ignored the abuse of Glowczewski.
Children can be cruel, of course, but they can also be held to standards, if not of empathy, then decency. But they also need adults around them who live by those standards and who expect them to do the same.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: jebus202 ]
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:I was wondering why you cut off the very last line (quote) of that article when you pasted it here Stephen.
Because I got distracted. And as someone with brain damage, I tend to do things like that when I get distracted. Crap - it's a great line.
That said, I'd like to point out that I like to think that I usually show better judgment than the school officials involved in this.
(Not-so-subtle hint: As someone who actually HAS brain-damage, a thread about the mistreatment of someone with a disability is not the greatest place to start throwing out disparaging stuff about brain damage.)
Edit to add: "subtle hint" not directed at Farmgirl.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Frankly, this kind of thing doesn't surprise me. I was in gym class in 7th grade and this kid came up to me and punched me in the nose. I was in the corner and couldn't get away. When he pulled his fist back to punch me again, I kicked him in the stomach.
We both got suspension, for the same amount of time. The gym teacher said I deserved punishment because I kicked when I could have blocked. This kid had 20 pounds on me. It was then and there that I realized school discipline is not about justice, it's about control.
Dagonee *I hadn't even read Ender's Game yet when I did that.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Sorry Sndrake... no offense intended.
Edit: my post in question is deleted.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
This happened to me too in grade school...about 6th grade. My brother and I were at the ABSOLUTE bottom of the social totem pole growing up. Alot of abuse and fights, yadda yadda yadda...
And one time this one bully, sitting behind my only friend in class, was punching my friend in the back of the head. Well, I get up and report it to the teacher and she f*@cking screams at me! And then the whole class claps and cheers at my humiliation bringing on more physical and mental abuse from them.
Don't know what she was thinking... but long story short my folks found out about it and raised a stink and the teacher was forced to call my house and apologize to me. Wacky stuff man.
Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
Reminds me of a story from my son's school several years back.
One boy in junior high came up to another and kissed him on the moutn. THe boy who received the kiss was horrified and "straight" and reacted naturally to the gay kid: he punched his lights out.
The kisser got one day's suspension for sexual harrassment. The kissee got ten days due to the school's zero tolerance policy.
When the father of the kissee found out about it, he went to the school and beat the crap out of the principal. He said that he did that because he didn't feel like kissing him!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
So the kid came by his violent overreaction naturally, did he?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
TAK/Jim-Me,
It's not a big deal. My skin is a little thinner today than most days.
You really didn't have to delete. What you said is the kind of thing people say every day in all kinds of settings - it's embedded in our language and culture (and probably most other ones, too.).
I know you didn't mean harm by it. Most of the time I just go with the flow better.
Thanks for your patience and coolness. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Seems that way, Dagonee.
What I want to know is whether the father was arrested for assault and battery.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Jalapenoman's story is a classic illustration of why it's so hard to figure out nature/nurture influences on behavior.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Crazy! I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious. I couldn't even imagine kissing another boy in public, let alone in a harrasing manner like that. I had to hide being gay or face social suicide. I was lucky if I was ignored. I don't know if that's good or bad... that the culture is becoming more accepting for gay folk that developing youngsters feel like they can do that....
Girls! Survey time. When you were going through grade school did you and how often did you face sexual harrasement?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Never (that I recall, anyway).
Then again, all my classmates were girls. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*growls* Why the hell can't schools and parents teach kids NOT to bully? I think I got groped at a library by some kid in junior high school...
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
That is odd that the kisser only got 1 day suspension...it should have been a heck of a lot more than that. When I was younger a guy at my school pushed a girl against a tree and kissed her against her will and he got expelled from school. Of course the girls father was a wealthy lawyer, that might have had something to do with the expulsion, but one day sounds nuts for any sexual harasment...be it male or female.
[ May 28, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Lupus ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I was lucky if I was ignored.
Now there's a familiar sentiment.
Look, the guy who got kissed was entitled to use reasonable force to prevent it - pushing, holding, etc. He was also entitled to the kisser being punished and having some kind of distance proptection (a restraining order, if you will). As a response to the kiss, however, the punch was both out of proportion and not for defensive purposes. It was vengeance, pure and simple, and probably resulted more from the implication he was gay than from the actual sense of violation. Maybe the boy's reaction was understandable, given how cruel middle schoolers are to anyone with a hint of gayness, but it still wasn't right. And the father's response was criminal.
Had a boy done that to a girl, I hope no one would consider a kick to the crotch an appropriate response (assuming there was no follow up threat and they were in public). And I seriously doubt most people would consider an unwanted kiss from a girl cause for any physical violence in retaliation.
Dagonee
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Agree with Lupus.
Sorry, nothing more to say.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
<grin>
I figured you just accidentally left if off, sndrake. I just purposefully pointed it out because I knew then everyone would run to the original link to see what was missing.
<WINK>
Farmgirl
Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
In answer: The boy's father (the one that did the hitting) got arrested for battery. He spent one night in jail, but school and principal decided not to press charges (due to the possible negative publicity).
I have no idea why the kisser only got a day. Wealthy parentage or ethnicity could have had something to do with it, but I am unsure.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
no problem Sndrake... if I had realized how offensive it was, I wouldn't have said it to begin with...
The words "Brain Damage", to me, conjure up 20 yr old Bill Cosby routines about children who behave in mystifying ways, not about serious conditions which affect people's day to day life.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:I figured you just accidentally left if off, sndrake. I just purposefully pointed it out because I knew then everyone would run to the original link to see what was missing.
Well, Farmgirl, I forgot to say that I fixed it now. But please don't delete your message about the missing quote at the end. If people read diligently through the thread, they will realize the article is now complete.
Those who work will be rewarded with comprehension.
The others...
will just have to be confused. Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
LOL, sndrake. I actually clicked the link you provided to the original article to see what line was omitted (and found that you had already fixed it). So do I get extra credit for reading the article twice? VBG
What an incredibly unreal scenario, where the bullied child (disabled or not) is expelled/suspended, and the bully is not. Sometimes I wonder what kind of world I am living in.
I try so hard as a parent to instill in my child a sense of personal responsibility. It blows my mind that other parents don't follow suit.
I'm going to paint a sign to put in my (shared) entryway: "Do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do". Do you think anyone will read it?
*heavy sigh*
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
Sexual harrassment in elementary school?? Yes! My family moved to Colorado in 1969. In my previous school, I had never experienced any sort of bullying or discrimination, to me or any of the other kids, that I saw.
In the next two years in Colorado, I was humiliated, beaten up, called ugly names, groped, cornered on the playground by a pack of boys, had my clothing damaged and belongings stolen right from my hands and destroyed, pushed down a flight of stairs, and threatened with a knife (big, not plastic). In one incident, I had my top unbuttoned and was groped by three boys while standing on the risers during a choir program, in front of a couple of hundred teachers and parents.
The school system did nothing. Teachers who witnessed it told me it was my fault. (One did give me a safety pin to repair my broken bra.)
Terrible things seems to happen in Colorado schools. I wonder if it's something in the water.
Rain
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Rocky Flats, perhaps?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:Frankly, this kind of thing doesn't surprise me.
(with rest of story omitted)
Dag,
what surprises me about the story is how far it went. The mother called the principal and the DPS administration and got no response.
Frankly, THAT level of stupidity surprises me.
The general dynamic don't though. I'm familiar with them.
In middle school, I was short, kinda funny looking and not real skilled socially. I was an easy target for bullies, who pretty much name-called, shoved, pinched, etc. with impunity.
The two times I shoved BACK within the school walls I ended up in the principal's office, along with the bully. In one of the cases, the other kid actually glared at me as we sat there and said "see what you did? Happy now?"
quote:It was then and there that I realized school discipline is not about justice, it's about control.
I had a similar epiphany and it generalized. I developed the conviction that authority functions to maintain the status quo. It's not about justice, truth, right or wrong.
As long as it was bullies picking on ME, the status quo was in full swing. When I pushed back, it was a disruption requiring a response.
My parents used to blame the Vietnam War for my ambivalence to authority. They realize now that a lot of it traces back to that middle school principal who hauled me in and gave me a stern talking-to when I defended myself.
I should also point out that my parents were no great respecters of authority, either. But they thought they hid that from me pretty well.
They were wrong. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
With me, it made me want to be the one administering justice. 'Cause I'll get it right.
Dagonee
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:Why the hell can't schools and parents teach kids NOT to bully?
Schools don't teach kids not to bully because there's really no way they can. What are they going to do? Suspend the bully? I can tell you from experience that that almost always makes the situation worse, not better, when the bully returns. Expel the bully? I have a hard time seeing where that would be any better.
Parents can teach kids not to bully in most cases, I think, but they don't for many reasons. Sometimes because they, themselves, are or were bullies and see it as a sign of strength. Other times they're just bad parents and neglect their kids. But I think most often it's because they love their kids so much that they can't imagine that they would be bullies. To this day a parent of a kid who used to beat me up in middle school thinks that my mom and I are liars who got her child in trouble for no reason.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Related to the subject:
My son recently told me that several months ago, he and some friends were being silly, and that he said to a girl: "gee, you're kind of flirtatious today."
She immediately began walking toward him with obvious malicious intent, which my son thought was feigned. His (male) friend started shouting at him to run, but he again assumed that the reaction was a joke of some sort. When she reached my son, she kicked him in the balls.
Afterwards his friend told him that his warning was serious, because some time before, she had kicked HIM in the balls.
When I heard about this, I intended to go to the school, but my son didn't seem to think it merited that. I'm not sure why, but I think the prevailing attitude is that females attacking males isn't a serious issue. He also said that this event was several months old.
My wife also thought this didn't deserve to be reported. I got angry at her, citing cases where men are abused by women and it's dismissed or ridiculed.
Eventually my son promised he'd tell her that if she did it again I'd file assault charges on her, and I relented, mostly because of the time lapse since the event.
What are your opinions?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
In exchange for a light comment, though rude, your son gets PHYSICALLY assaulted in a very sensitive part of the body. He could have been castrated for life.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Assuming your son's report of the incident is accurate, I totally agree with you. Even if he did more to antagonize her than he admitted, it's still totally unacceptable behavior on her part. What the heck is that girl going to do as an adult, if she considers that an acceptable reaction to being called flirtatious at age what, 7? 10? Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
I was bullied, teased, and humiliated all through school. I was fat and I got really good grades, so I didn't have a chance. And what happened when I complained to teachers about it (which I learned very early not to even bother to do)? I was advised to "try and get along". Excuse me?
So, you see, I'm not surprised at all that the sort of thing described in the article goes on. It was always my experience that the whole school thing is geared toward making everyone as much the same as possible. In this sort of system, bullying actually serves a functional purpose - nobody likes getting bullied for being different, so anyone who possibly can tries to be as much like everyone else as possible. Works quite well in shutting down all those non-conformist individualists who make the system uncomfortable. And if, like the individual in the article, blending in is not possible due to some sort of disability, the attitude of the system is that it's just too bad. I think that attitude stinks.
Sorry if this all sounds awfully cynical, but I only have my experience to go on.
Edited for stupid grammar and tense agreement.
[ May 28, 2004, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: littlemissattitude ]
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
For perspective: My son is a senior in high school.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I would hope that by the time a girl is a senior in high school, she has learned that you can't just kick boys in the balls every time they upset you. That's the kind of thing I'd expect more from an elementary-school-aged group (not that it's any more acceptable among that group, of course).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
This girl is in HIGH SCHOOL?
Wow. For her sake, if no one else's, this behavior of hers (which sounds like it is not uncommon on her part) needs to be reported to someone who will DO something (like getting her some serious therapy) ASAP.
When a younger child does stuff like that, there is still hope that they will be socialized to understand that it's not acceptable behavior. But a high-schooler who thinks this is ok? And keeps having that reinforced, because no one (as far as I'm hearing) has ever called her on it? She has some serious issues, IMO.
mack, your opinion?
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
You know, I had all the characteristics of a good bully-ee, and I went to a pretty bully-riffic junior high and first few years of high school. I remember being spit on once when I was eating my lunch (alone, of course) which was surprising, but that's really the only bad thing everyone ever did to me. I think I carry myself in a pretty intimidating way... I don't make many friends like this, but it's a great defense mechanism. I think even my boss is a little scared of me. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
This kind of thing drives me nuts... It has got to stop. We can't let people pick on people because of weakness or difference. It's unacceptable in a society that's supposed to be civilized. And it has to start at an early age. A kid as early as preschool that picks on another kid has to be pulled aside and punished. The parents have got to stop seeing picking on people as a sign of strength and as failure on their part. And the answer is NOT making the child that's different change like on Sally when they gave kids that were being picked on makeovers. Like they had the problem...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Glenn, you're first instinct was correct. It should have been reported. Had he hit her back (I'm not advocating this), you can bet it would have been reported and he'd have been in BIG trouble.
Whereas if a guy punched a guy and got hit back, that would either be the end of it, or they'd be suspended equally.
Dagonee
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I agree. Kids in our society have to put up with much worse than adults would ever stand for. The idea that this sort of thing is inevitable, that there's nothing those in authority can do about it, that kids have to work these things out among themselves, and so on, is just crazy.
Adults can certainly require kids not to be this way. I think the answer is to sue the school systems until it stops. That's what had the biggest impact on sexual harassment in the workplace. Suddenly you get all sorts of sensitivity training and so on. You get people being fired for failing to comply with the rules. You get people in authority taking the issue seriously.
Until it is made to hurt those in power as much as it hurts the kids who are victims of it (and the perpetrators, too, come to think of it, are damaged quite badly by letting this go on as well), then it will continue.
I don't tend to fault the victims much for overreacting, though. I bet the guy who gets kicked in the crotch will never ever tease a girl again in a way that she doesn't like. I don't want anyone to have to be injured, but teaching someone how to behave is a great benefit to everyone. Pain will often teach a lesson quickly and well that may never have soaked in any other way.
When I am touched inappropriately, if the person obviously knows I don't welcome their touch and just doesn't care, is determined to touch me anyway, then yes I react quite violently to that. That's very violating. The person who does that needs an instant lesson in the lack of wisdom of that path. My usual method is to strike out, aiming to cause intense pain, and then apologize profusely saying they startled me. This is what I recommend all girls do. If we trained all girls to respond this way from a young age, then I believe the incidence of rape, groping, sexual harrassment, and disrespect of women in general would drop to nearly nothing.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I never appreciated until recently how much my parents supported us when we were growing up.
From my first days in elementary school, I was told: "If a kid hits you, hit back. I will support you, you won't be punished at home, and I will go to bat for you in the school." Although I never found need to hit anyone, just knowing that if push came to shove (pun not intended) that I would be allowed to defend myself really gave me a lot of confidence. My sister had to hit someone back in Kindergarten, and from then on she never had any trouble.
The flip side of that was that we always knew when it was appropriate to hit back or not. Verbal teasing was not an excuse; nothing but all out being hit was.
I'm really quite baffled at this DPS. Honestly, wasn't there ANYONE who realized what was going on? Wasn't there a single teacher or school admin who had that little flash of common sense? That's so sad. And I'm not a huge fan of lawsuits, but man, this is calling for one if they don't make up for their mistake and at the very least allow this girl to finish her year properly.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
The balls-kicker basically needs to learn that it isn't acceptable to do that unless being physically attacked.
Assault charges might fix that. It seems she hasn't gotten any consequences for it yet.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:Adults can certainly require kids not to be this way. I think the answer is to sue the school systems until it stops. That's what had the biggest impact on sexual harassment in the workplace. Suddenly you get all sorts of sensitivity training and so on. You get people being fired for failing to comply with the rules. You get people in authority taking the issue seriously.
As a person who has been on the bad end of bullying and who has personally seen what happens when bullies get punished, I would be more than willing to bet, say, $10 that you are wrong.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Does anyone have a comment on the time delay? Is it too late to make a stink out of it?
Posted by Son_of_Priam (Member # 6411) on :
Personally I have found that after a while, if it wasn't reported immediatly, the school administration will decide it must not have been that serious and the girl would have been told "You shouldn't do that." been patted on the head and been told to run along to class.
Posted by Son_of_Priam (Member # 6411) on :
The main problem I see is that the school might actually deem that by saying "You seem awfully flirtatious today" your son was sexually harrassing the girl, and he'll be suspended. That's one of the main problems with disciplin in schools: if they only punish the offender they will get calls from angry parents complaining about how their poor little precious was treated so unfairly by the school. Case in point, I was in gym class 3 days before a school feild trip, and I forget exactly how it came to happen but this person bit my arm. and when I say bit I mean he tore some of the muscle in my fore arm from the bone, and he bit hard enough the puncture the skin. He didn't actually rip the chuck of flesh from my arm but it bled and really hurt. I punched him in the face to get him off me, and we were both sent to the office, the kid got suspended for 1 day, after which his mother called and talked about how her son had a bruise on his face from where I hit him and demanded that I be reprimanded as well, and I was suspended for the day of the feild trip.
Pretty much the school administration just need to hand out enough punishment to make sure they got everybody involved so no parents will call up the school and whine.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I actually helped get a friend out of punishment. Some kid on the wrestling team came and took an ice cream sandwich from a kid at our table. My friend went to get it back - he stood over the thief and reached for the ice cream.
The thief stood up, took a swing at my friend, and ended up with two black eyes. (Our wrestling team really sucked.)
The principle was going to punish both of them, but the thief's mom complained and made life hard for the principle. "My baby doesn't start fights. It was the big bully's fault."
So they asked me down to describe the events as they happened. I played lawyer even then, explaining that standing next to someone in the cafeteria has never been grounds to allow hitting as far as I knew.
The principle decided that he couldn't in good conscience punish one and not the other, so he let my friend off the hook. Took great pleasure in telling the wrestler's mother about it, too.
Dagonee
Posted by Son_of_Priam (Member # 6411) on :
It probably shouldn't have but that story made me chuckle. Yeah some of the things teachers will spout at you for fighing is hilarious too. That whole "Just walk away" bit is all well and good except when your being assaulted by someone who's faster than you, and its about 30 feet to the door, not counting having to run around tables and all of his friends trying to catch you.
Even if you get into a fight and just throw the person to the ground and hold him down so he can't get back up, seems to be cause for punishment. I've been into way more fights than I think were necesairry and I've now gotten to the point where If I'm going to fight someone its going to be worth the punishment I get. So what if they make me see the school therapist because when they ask me if I thought it was worth it to get into a fight after they've told me my punishment for not standing still while people hit me with wooden boards in the shop room, I can honestly reply "Yes, and I'd do it again if it came to that"
A big problem is no one tells the truth anymore, it usually comes down to who has more friends willing to lie for them because to be honest not too many people are ever truly innocent. Sometimes there are so many people lying that they all completely contradict each other, but all try to say their friend did absolutely nothing and from out of nowhere this crazy person starting hitting him, that the administration just has to assume they each did something and hand out equal punishment not really sure of what happened.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I was in grade three in a small northern community. This'll date me - that was back in, uh, about 1976 or 77. There was a boy in our class, several years older because of failing grades a couple of times, and he used to pick on absolutely everyone. He was the classic bully. He'd hit, punch, bite, taunt, call names, and everything else that I can't remember at the moment. One day in particular, I'd had enough. I yelled back at him. I told him to stop it. He said, what are you gonna do? I'll make you. Fine, he says. And he suggested a particular exit and we'd fight it out.
I went and we fought. There were half a dozen teachers around, sorta watching while trying to look like they weren't. This guy and I got into it, and I ended up breaking his nose. He split my lip. He had blood gushing. I had a couple of drops. He ran home crying. Didn't show up for school for a few days. I was the hero. Bully didn't bully no more.
Teachers say everything and did nothing. I figured that they were hoping I'd win and if it looked like it was going to go the other way, they'd step in to prevent me from being hurt. It helps that I was the teacher's pet. And I was a tough scrapper - comes from being the youngest child.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:That whole "Just walk away" bit is all well and good except when your being assaulted by someone who's faster than you, and its about 30 feet to the door, not counting having to run around tables and all of his friends trying to catch you.
Word. Anyone who says "Just walk away," or "If you ignore them they'll leave you alone," is only able to say that because they have never had to deal with bullies personally and have no concept of how the bully mind functions.
Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
My mom always told me "Just ignore them and they'll get bored and leave you alone."
Needless to say, this never worked.
Then my therapist told me I should stand up for myself and say what I thought.
This ended up with a shouting circle of kids surrounding me and a bully pushing me against the wall, telling me she was gonna kick my ass.
I always noted that when a fight started teachers never broke it up, they waited until it was over and suspended all parties. So it really was a lose/lose proposition. Say nothing and continue to get picked on or say something and get beat up, suspended, and then get picked on when the suspension was up.
I was an A student up until the 7th grade... when I started cutting class because I didn't think people writing obscenities on the back of my new jacket or spitting in my hair was fun. My grades kept dropping until I quit school halfway through my junior year in high school. (I later acquired my GED.) My best friend finished school... barely. Someone once set her hair on fire in the cafeteria.
I can only come to the same conclusion that I saw earlier in this thread.... conforming, not grades, is the only thing that matters to the school system.
[ May 29, 2004, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: Misha McBride ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Well, I got beat up continually my whole life until I was about 16. Finally I'd had enough and I gave up my principle of non-violence which I had maintained pretty well up to that point. I believed in the "ignore it because you are above that" idea, but it didn't work at all. It just egged them on. I actually just lost it one day and went berzerk when someone was hurting someone helpless, and attacked the one doing the hurting. This happened once or twice then the bullies who had been beating me up for years stopped instantly. They even acted like they wanted to be my friend which was hilarious, I thought, and completely took me by surprise.
When that happened I wished I'd done it years before. It was so EASY! And not only did they leave me alone but they also didn't pick on anyone else when I was around, either.
So my policy now is to be kind and polite to everyone, but not to let people pick on people weaker or smaller than themselves in my presence. And not to let anyone pick on me either. I try not to injure anyone, (and once I got out of my rough high school it was pretty rare anyway) but I don't mind causing pain. I think pain is a very good teacher of bullies. If withering scorn and humiliation don't work, then I'm not averse to trying pain. After all, it's a kindness to the people the bully will encounter for the rest of their life. And even moreso, it's a kindness to the bully himself.
And in the adult world, as well, that principle serves me well. Now I don't often have to get in physical fights (thank goodness), but I don't let people bully me on the job, or in business dealings, or whatever. My landlady one time tried to make me move in a week for no reason contrary to the lease, for instance. The same idea still applies. Decide if it's worth a fight and if so then have at them (this time with attorneys or verbally) with all guns blazing. I think of it as a public service. The next person they try this with might just roll over and take it. They should learn that it's not good to be a bully.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
I think even my boss is a little scared of me.