I know it had everything to do with me and nothing to do with him.
The conversation was something about Steve. Anyway he went something like, "Man you to don't have anything in common, I guess it's true opposites attract huh?"
I took umbrage. We are very alike in a lot of ways. But they aren't necessarily specifically in the area of hobbies. I mean we tend to like similar TV shows, and go see movies together and do the everyday chores and shopping together, occasionally go rollerblading together and the like. But what we do with our free time can be pretty different. Even if we are both on the computer we do differet activites.
For the most part we are pretty tolerant of the other person's hobbies (my dogs, his jujitsu etc.) and don't get in the way and are generally fairly supportive of the other person doing what they want to do.
I guess what tees me off is the idea that in order for a relationship to work you have to spend every waking hour of every free minute together doing things with each other.
What I see happening in relationships where this is true is that an uneven balance of power develops and one person of the couple starts always giving in to the others wishes. Very rarely do I actually see them alternating between one persons preferece and the others, and very rarely are the two people's interests SO identical that they always want to be doing the exact same activity (though it can happen).
Bob's counter argument was that time is so precious you should be wanting to spend every minute with your beloved. Nice in theory I just don't see it working in practice. Very few people actually treat time like it is precious. Most people take it for granted, and waste loads of time daily with or sans "beloved". So the argument doesn't hold water.
What do you think?
AJ
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Not to derail or anything, but I read the title as "Relationships vs. Hobbes". You think you took umbrage?
Hobbes Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
AJ wins.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
My wife and I do vary on interests. We develop time to spend away from each other.
We both feel that this enhances our time together.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Spending every minute with your beloved sounds boring. After awhile nobody has anything new and vital to bring to the relationship.
My sister in-law and her hubby are joined at the hip. If you talk to one of them, you've talked to both of them.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I suspect most of hatrack will be in your camp eslaine, so this probably isn't the forum to actually get an unbiased discussion going. But it's worth a try.
AJ
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Some people just aren't built to spend all their time with each other. I have a very hard time if I don't get to spend part of my day alone.
It bugs me too when people assume because my personality is different than theirs, that I must not love my wife very much.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I'm just gonning to go ahead and say that if someone gave me the chance to spend every waking moment with Annie I would take it. Relationships are kind of like children, you know what happens when you try to apply the same method and theory of raising child one to child two.
Hobbes Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
yes but that's slightly different hobbes because you are in a long-distance relationship to begin with. once it becomes a near-distance relationship, you might view things slightly differently.
Would Annie (and Annie feel free to answer) actually want you hanging over her shoulder every single minute she is trying to create Art?
AJ
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I would have taken such a chance when I was in a university relationship as well. Now, though, I wouldn't. I require time with both myself and my male mysoginist friends (I'm kidding, my male friends aren't mysoginists). So remind me to ask you the same question again when you're old and grey like me Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
That's my point AJ, each relationship is different, and different things have an effect on each relationship. I'm not advocating our good friend Bob's position so much as I'm saying that don't go to the other extreme and declare him always wrong, just recognize that everyone has a way of making a relationship work, and trying to assign a judgment on how well it works besides how well the realtionship actually does is pretty silly.
Hobbes Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I guess the other thing that bothers me is that people view Hobbies as something being in opposition to Relationships unless both parties are involved in the same Hobby.
AJ
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I cracked up at AJ's post, because when I saw Art capitalized, I figured it was a name, perhaps of their firstborn son. "Hanging over her shoulder" just doesn't sound quite right in that case....
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Yes Hobbes, every relationship is unique, but people do and are passing judgment on everyone all the time even if it is unconscous. Perhaps those of us on Hatrack pass jugdment less or are kinder in their judgements than the rest of the world, but maybe we are fooling ourselves too in our Hatrack ivory tower.
AJ
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Just because they're doing it all the time doesn't mean it ain't silly.
Hobbes Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
hee hee Moose, the reason why I used generic "Art" was because I know Annie likes using several artistic mediums and I didn't want to select one and then look blatantly stupid for picking a "wrong" one.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
just because it's silly doesn't mean you should disregard someone's feelings.
AJ
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote: "Hanging over her shoulder" just doesn't sound quite right in that case....
You sure about that, Pop? Perhaps you've just grown inflexible in your old age...
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Well now I'm hopelessly confused as to what we're arguing (or agreeing) about. Basically I just said that you don't have to like all the same hobbies and spend every waking moment together, but applying the reverse (that you can't have the same hobbies or not want to spend all possible time together) is just as wrong, because there is no pre-determined RIGHT way of making a relationship work besides just plain making it work. That's as far as I went, now we seem to be on something else and I don't know what it is, or what the position you think I've taken on it.
Hobbes Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I always need me-time. Time to write, read, work on my photography, study, any of that stuff.
My definition of a relationship wouldn't involve two people being totally dependent on each other. That would annoy the crap out of me. I want another individual who has compassion, who is his own person with likes, dislikes and hobbies.
And when our hobbies coincide, WOOHOO! Like zombie and disaster movies, Halo, hiking, things of that sort. 'Cause then you can do stuff together.
But to do EVERYTHING together?
It seems then you would stand to lose your individuality.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:I suspect most of hatrack will be in your camp eslaine, so this probably isn't the forum to actually get an unbiased discussion going. But it's worth a try.
::sits down in eslaine's camp:: Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I suffer from codependephobia, also known as "Severe Independence Appreciation Disorder."
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Hobbes, it's just that it's sort of amusing for you to take the "every-waking-moment relationships are for me!" stance when we all know you're thousands of miles away from your sweetheart. Most of us have been there and remember how it feels, and how different it is from how it feels to live with someone all the time. Still loving and exciting, yes, but way more subdued. It has to be. You can't pine for someone when you wake up with them every day.
I'm amazed at how much more effort goes in to keeping each other amused now that my fiance and I have been living together for four years. After so much time, we know all of our jokes, all of our opinions, all of our quirky little idiosyncrasies.... so if we weren't both constantly trying new things and doing things separately, we would have little more to talk about than the weather when we were together. Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
For the first fifteen years of my marriage I was on the road about 30-percent of the time. I was surprised that was almost a perfect balance for our particular personalities. My wife had plenty of time to indulge in her hobbies, and at just about the point where she'd reached hobby saturation, I'd come home.
I haven't been on the road for nearly six months now, and we're both starting to get a bit stale.
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Spending all your time with the same person would be fantastically draining, to say nothing of boring.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
The fact that I'm in a long distance relationship and want to spend way more time with Annie than most people would want to spend with their SO is my complete and entire point. The relationship we're in changes what it takes to keep it together, and how we want it to work.
quote:You can't pine for someone when you wake up with them every day. [EDIT] Spending all your time with the same person would be fantastically draining, to say nothing of boring.
It's statements like that that I'm disagreeing with. Definte have-tos and can't-dos may exist in one relationship but that doesn't mean they can't in any other. I think that's what bugged AJ so much, is that Bob was saying "here's how a relationship works" and she was saying "that's not how it works for me".
Hobbes
[ June 08, 2004, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
But you don't know how much time you would want to spend with her if you were living together. I think that's AJ's point.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
<---- has to be in eslaine's camp as well!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Well it's true, I don't since currently we are sepereated by multiple states, I don't know how much time I will want to spend with her when we work it out so we're living close to each other.
Hobbes Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Exactly.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I guess I just don't see how that applies to what I've been saying though.
Hobbes Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Pardon me. Spending all your time with the same person would be fantastically draining, and boring, for me. Different adjectives will obviously apply to different people, though I doubt "healthy" is one of them.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
if twinky is old and grey, what does that make me?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
RB, your posts are one of the chief reasons I lurk in the VR on Ars. You almost never fail to crack me up.
celia, if I am old and grey you must be young and sexy. (Bonus points to whoever recognizes the band name in that sentence.)
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
I think the most important part is to respect each other's hobbies. I've definitely seen a few people in relationships in which one person treats the other's hobby with disdain. And that ain't good.
Beyond that, I think it's personal preference. I find that I only really want to date people who have fascinating hobbies and a strong interest in those hobbies. It's not necessary that I join them at their hobby, but I want to be able to appreciate it in some fashion. Like I'd want to enjoy watching them, or seeing the results, or attending shows with them. I'd like the vice versa to be true as well.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Suneun--exactly. It's happened to me. I've been in a relationship where the other person got pissed off that I went to the gym daily and didn't spend that time with him.
I invited him along.
But then he decided he couldn't go with me because he didn't think it was right.
Also kept telling me I'd "better not turn into a she-woman of muscles."
In general, he got pissy that I didn't spend EVERY WAKING MOMENT with him. It made me pretty damn resentful of him.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Wait, before we move on I need closure! Are we agreed that Bob was wrong that AJ needed to have the same hobbies and spend almost all of her time with Steve to have a healthy relationship, and are we agreed that what was wrong about that was that he was impressing his type of relationship on AJ, not that he just happened to have the wrong type of relationship?
Hobbes Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*nods* I had this rule that we didn't see each other on Sundays and Wednesdays. I need days to be alone. When I was in school, I was alone while studying and that worked, but since I now work in an office around people, I need to spend at two nights a week where I can be by myself. I need that time to think and be me again.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I love Mr. Opera dearly, but spending all of my free time with him would drive me beserk. I *have* to have alone time, otherwise I get very grumpy. Some of our hobbies are the same, like hiking, but others are very different. This is fun in its own way, b/c I get to tease him that Clint Eastwood movies are boring, and he gets to tell me that paying 79 cents for a piece of scrapbook paper is crazy. I only get concerned when our worldviews don't match up on big things like parenting philosophies, etc.
space opera
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That was the hardest thing for me when I served an LDS mission -- never being alone. I wend kinda batty. I feel sorry for those poor companions of mine.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I know exactly where you're coming from, mph. I have some friends who hate being alone, and I have never been able to understand that. For me being alone is akin to renewal. It also stops the urges to run around screaming like a lunatic.
space opera
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I had a few companions to whom I never said a word inside the apartment. It wasn't anything to do with them, I just needed to be by myself, and it was the only way to do it.
I have this theory that that's part of the reason I was such a bookworm as a kid. As one of four kids in a house, it's hard to get privacy, but if I was reading a book, I could block out everyone.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I was out at Purdue for two months one summer, and I lived in the dorms all by myself. Four out of five nights a week I would spend completely by myself.
It was glorious.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
When were you at Purdue? Are you ever going to come visit?
And find, no one give me closure.
Hobbes Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Hobbes, I don't think it's a matter of coming to consensus. Though I also got lost about BannaOJ's feelings. I guess I'm in your camp because I had to stare at this a long time before I realized it said "hobbles" and not "Hobbes." (Edit: cool Freudian typo, eh? of course I meant "hobbies")
Maybe I'm confused because of the use of capitalized "Hobbies". Is there some kind of transcendent concept of a "Hobby" that is escaping me? (More edit, while I'm here) I don't know that I have any hobbies on the order of dog showing. Unless you count Hatrack.
[ June 08, 2004, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by BlueJacsFan (Member # 6590) on :
Personally, I can't think of anyone I'd want to spend every waking moment with. As Space Opera said, I'd go berserk.
Now, that's coming from a bachelor's point of view, and I'm not currently in any relationship.
I think though, that it's all a matter of personality. Bob the Weightlifter is not right in trying to impress his needs or views on someone else's relationship (and, of course, this begs the question: where was his SO?), but if his (and his SO's) personality are such that they can spend that much time together, more power to them. He needs to understand that those of us with more melancholy/analytical/pick-your-own-term-for-this-personality-type NEED the alone time that several of you have mentioned.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Hobbes, I think he was here about a year before I started. And if Porter visits, I call dibs!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Thanks BJF, complete agreement with you!
Celia, have all the dibbs you want but if he comes I'm meeting him, even if I have to.. umm... suffer through Bill's cooking.
Hobbes Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Yeah, I was out at Purdue during the summer of 1998. I really liked the place the surrounding countryside. I came *this* close to getting my masters (mechanical engineering) out at Purdue. It actually would have been cheaper than doing it at BYU.
I'd love to make it out there again some time. Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
heh, make that a few years before I was here. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Man, you guys are making me feel old...
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
98 totally doesn't seem that long ago. Danged if I can remember a single thing that happened back then, though.
Oh, yeah, 1998. Well, the upside is that I weight the same as I did then.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
quote: Since when are you old? Old is only a state of mind, like being young. I've never been young and I've never been old because I never think of myself like that. I am older than people, yes, and younger than people, but old and young are just the states you give yourself.
--a wise man
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Hey, don't try to stop me from being an old man. And get off of my lawn!
Dern kids...
Posted by John Van Pelt (Member # 5767) on :
I have something to say here, but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe I can work it out.
Hobbies are only a subset of 'all activities' -- which can include work, vocation, avocation, serious interests, self improvement, entertainment, etc. Nobody expects a couple in a relationship to go to work together, or share a common avocation or common ambitions -- but one does expect that they will share some sympathy or philosophy in that regard.
(One marvels at the deeply religious person married to the atheist, or the vegan married to the fur importer.)
As my now-ended marriage wound down, one of the sticking points seemed to be this 'activities' question. I had become a rabid competitive Scrabble player -- quite addicted -- and then added motorcycling. Neither of these activities held any attraction whatsoever for my wife, nor -- even if they did -- were there ready ways for her to participate even for the purpose of enjoying time with me.
But she was adamant that I not give them up, even to 'save' the marriage. If our relationship was to work, I had to feel happy doing the things that rewarded me. She just wished that they could include more things that embraced her interests: reading, travel, dining out, walking, etc.
When we talked about the possibility of her taking up an independent hobby so that she might not feel so like a Scrabble widow, it became clear that all this talk of activities was a bit of a red herring. We each wanted, at root, to feel wanted and cared for by the other person, to feel -- in some essential way, from non-verbal cues as well as by behavior -- that we were at the cherished center of the other's heart. Simply aligning our hobbies was not going to make this happen, if it didn't exist otherwise.
It would go off topic to explain in further detail how it continued to unravel... but this debate was at the center of our lives for the two years or so that we struggled to 'make it work.' Very interesting.
My new love and I happen to share Scrabble -- and much else beside -- and having so many lively interests and hobbies in common is new to me. But I don't think I am deluded into thinking that is what makes our relationship work. It is part of what drew us together, but it is her mind, soul, body, values, dreams, voice, imagination, humor and more that I love, and where we share such a bond.
-jvp
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Hobbes I'm sorry I didn't get back to you before now. Actually had to do that little thing called Work. <grin>
Basically I what everyone else already said, I'm not talking about a long distance relationship, because by its very nature you aren't living together in any sort of proximity with each other. I would expect you right now to want to be with Annie every moment you can because the opportunity is so rare.
But when you are near each other while still wanting to spend time with each other by its nature mundane every day life will still have to happen. You are still going to have to eat, wash clothes, do dishes etc. You might do them separately, or you might divide the labor. The question is how your other interests in life and time meld or don't meld together with each other.
please let me know where more clarification is needed.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
The other thing that I was thinking of, is that you may think other peoples opinions are "silly" but they aren't necessarily silly to the people themselves. Perception IS reality in their minds and you can't change it no matter how unfair it is.
We might hate the fact that it is true, we might rail against the injustice but the fact is that we have to get along with the "silly" people in the world too. Most of the time they aren't truly bad at heart even if they are shallow in our opinions.
AJ
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:We each wanted, at root, to feel wanted and cared for by the other person, to feel -- in some essential way, from non-verbal cues as well as by behavior -- that we were at the cherished center of the other's heart.
This is beatiful, JVP.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
quote: And when our hobbies coincide, WOOHOO! Like zombie and disaster movies, Halo, hiking, things of that sort. 'Cause then you can do stuff together.
A girl who likes zombie movies and halo is a total plus, in my book. And yeah, having seperate hobbies are nice, too. Gives you time to yourself.
And since when am I a wise man?
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
I have a feeling that happened around May 9th of 1985.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
AJ, I guess I got confused because I think we're arguing two, completely different things. I'm saying that enforcing your (general your) view of how to make a relationship work on someone else is silly, and you're arguing that normally couples don't need to have the same hobbies. I agree, couples don't always need to spend all their time together, but that doesn't mean that a couple spending all their time together is wrong any more than it means enjoying different things dooms the relationship.
As for thinking other people's opinions are silly I'm not so much saying ignore it or hate it or anything, it's just Hobbes's version of saying that our friend Bob was wrong (in my opinion).
Hobbes Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote: Since when are you old? Old is only a state of mind, like being young. I've never been young and I've never been old because I never think of myself like that. I am older than people, yes, and younger than people, but old and young are just the states you give yourself.
In that case I'm so old that I remember the birth of dirt.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I can't remember how long weightlifter Bob's longest relationship lasted. I suspect Steve and I are beyond that time limit, though one of Bob'd gfs lasted far longer than any of the others at I think 3 years but it might have been 6. He's had one failed marriage that lasted for less than a year and several other turbulent relationships.
He's also extremely fastidious and inflexible as far as his routine, what he does and what he eats. So I wouldn't necessarily go to him for relationship advice ever.
Another example: I know that if there is a big project that needs to get done over a long weekend I start talking about it with Steve 2 weeks in advance. It takes Steve that long to adjust to the idea. Well over Memorial Day there was a project (putting in a floor in one of the bedrooms) that we both know needs to be done and I was planning on doing, that involved him but I forgot to tell him. So I told Steve on Tuesday of that week before. The result was not good. Anyway I mentioned it to Bob that Steve had been upset. I blamed myself but was also amused because I know how Steve's mind works and that I was giving him short notice.
However after a day to recover from the shock he was ok with doing the project. But after we talked it over together and doing price comparisons, we realized that we needed to do the glued type of engineered wood flooring rather than glueless, since glueless costs twice as much. After realizing it was going to be even a much bigger project than planned and more involved we've tabled it until a later date.
Yet Bob refuses to believe that it was actually a joint decision. He thinks Steve somehow "won" and I somehow "lost" when no such thing happened.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Hobbes I'm not saying that my view of life should be "enforced" on any one any more than Bob's view should be "enforced" on me.
However there is no law saying you can't make general observations about the relative happiness and healthiness of relationships and draw conclusions about human behavior either.
AJ
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Exactly! See? We're not arguing at all, we're making two non-conflictory statments.
Hobbes Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Anna, I think the moral of this story basically boils down to "I should remember not to care what weightlifter Bob thinks, as he's probably going to be judgemental about my boyfriend out of jealousy no matter what I tell him."
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
That's the thing though Tom. Bob isn't that complicated. I genuinely don't think he was jealous. I don't think he actually understands how two people can live together without spending every possible moment together. If anything I suspect that was the downfall of his own relationships.
And this is a "hot" topic to me because of how many times I've seen my mother getting suckered into doing things with my father just because its Dad's thing and they *should* be doing it together, not because she actually wanted to. She does it constantly and I don't know if I've ever seen my father reciprocate and do something that she wants to because he *should*.
I don't think it is entirely tied into chauvinism though, because I've seen guys in the same position my mother was in before.
AJ
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:And this is a "hot" topic to me because of how many times I've seen my mother getting suckered into doing things with my father just because its Dad's thing and they *should* be doing it together, not because she actually wanted to.
AJ, I totally agree this is a huge problem in a relationship. But it's not gonna stop me from trying to hook my sweetie on the 'Rack.
Even though you will all think she is much cooler than me.
Dagonee
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
quote:And this is a "hot" topic to me because of how many times I've seen my mother getting suckered into doing things with my father just because its Dad's thing and they *should* be doing it together, not because she actually wanted to.
I do agree with this, AJ.
But on the other side, getting interested in your sweetie's hobbies can open your own horizons. Certainly that has happened to an extent with me and Tony - even if it's little things like him convincing me a little physical exercise won't kill me, or me taking him fishing and making him scale all the fish he caught (he now has a better rod than me...).
But I also fall into eslaine's camp - we can't spend every waking minute together every day otherwise we each become bored, staid and unenthusiastic. Of course, there are times were we do spend all day together - camping holidays for example, and I think it works because it's not the norm. And we're often quite relieved to get home and just have some *me* space at the end. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I feel that it is very important to be supportive of my wifes hobbies even when they don't make much sense to me.
JenniK is VERY involved in the Rainbow Girls, a service organization for younger girls that is affiliated with the Freemasons and Eastern Star, to the point that she is on the local Board for them. Her mother is the Mother Adviser, and JenniK herself is a past Grand Worthy Adviser, the young girl in charge of their meetings. One of her bridesmaids was a young girl from Rainbow.
I don't alway like the fact that Jenni has so many demands on her time. Often we plan to do something together, and as the time draws closer she will remember that she has a Rainbow function to attend or chaperon. However, I know that this is something that she really enjoys, and I like most of the people I have met at the Rainbow functions I am allowed to attend, so I support her. I even participate, when I can. It just isn't my thing, though.
I love to play pool. I use to play all the time, and was on several teams. Jenni liked pool, but didn't really know how to play. She joined my pool team, and loved playing on it. But, it wasn't really her thing.
Both of us support the other, without feeling that we have to do every little thing together. That is what works for us, usually.
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