This is topic Good Lord...I just realized that my skills have no value in the real world in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
I'm more of a lurker than a poster but I need some advice and failing that some reassuring. What better place to find it than the esoteric group of intellectuals at the hatrack boards?
I'm a fine arts student studying watercolor and metalsmithing and have just realized that barring some serendipitous event, I will be a poor man.
Until recently I held to the lofty ideal that I could just do what I loved and money be damned. Lofty ideals are all well and good, but they don't pay the bills. I will have a family one day, God willing, and I'm not sure that I'll be able to provide for them without selling out.
Maybe it's just that I live in the heart of a poor state little call for things of an artistic nature. Maybe its my parents naysaying (and boy could they say nay) catching up with me. But I am seriously considering changing what I intend to do with the rest of my life.
Poo...When I started this I had a clear idea of what I was asking but somewhere in the middle of the above rant I lost it. So...I'm not exactly sure what kind of advice I want. Maybe I just want some reassurance that I can do what I love and money indeed be damned.
Perhaps someone out there with experience in art can give me advice on what to expect in jobs or careers in the field.
Come on folks, I'm grasping at straws. I want to make art more than anything, but just don't see how it's practical. If I can't make ends meet with what I want to do, then I need to learn to do something that I can.
Thanks for at least reading this...and thanks to anybody who can give me good reasons (or at least convincing lies) for continuing to study art.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Just go to grad school and become an Art teacher. You wouldn't consider that "selling out", would you?
Then you can have a school to pay for your materials and young minds to warp...err, mold.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
quote:little call for things of an artistic nature
B.S.!
You should know by now that art is everywhere and in everything. Pick a career that pays and bring your art with you.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I know a guy who makes money doing tinsmithing for re-enactors. He mostly sells at events, but also sells on E-bay. He doesn't make his living at it, partly because he has a good job as an electrician. However, I think he's thought about it and might do that eventually. (No health benefits with it, though).
You might try making things (art) that can be sold in shops. That's something you can start doing now to see what kind of market is out there. You might be able to sell the same types of things at different shops and not have to stick to one geographical area.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
When you pick another career, the art suffers. Or at the very least, becomes much less prolific.
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
I think going to grad school and teaching is probably the best option...but its harder getting an art teaching position at the college level than I previously thought. More people than positions available. I suppose that's how it is everywhere these days. I certainly don't think teaching is selling out, in fact I'd be honored to teach, but I don't have much confidence in any teaching ability I might have either.
Have you been to Oklahoma, skillery? Everything is ugly, cheaply built, and utiliarian. I can't say how it is in other places because haven't traveled. But the oppressive prefab sterility of where I live is really starting to take its toll on me.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
fleetwood,
Come make movies with me! I could use a prop-maker and set-designer.
just kidding.
dunno. (wish I had some kind of useful or at least poignantly-sounding advice here)
man, if you enjoy what you do, there's gotta be a way to make it work in a practical sense.
fallow
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
CaySedai, I really don't know how to do any large scale metalsmithing. My area of study is small, jewelry scale copper, bronze, and silver work. Though I admit that I have thought of making things to sell at renfaires.
Maybe its just my parents trying to talk me out of art. My mom keeps telling me not enough people want to buy things they don't need for me to make a living at it. That's really pretty true of where I live. I would definately have to move to be able to...but I don't know if it's different anyplace else. Like I said..I've never traveled.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
If you really, really love what you do, if it means so much to you, then go for it. Sure, life will be rough. But, you're doing what you want to!
Life be damned, there is a value to beauty--and no matter how little or how much it's worth in terms of money, you're making the world a better place, you're changing the world in a way you never could from an office job.
I'm sure opportunites will open themselves to you if you work hard enough--but that doesn't mean it won't be tough, that there won't be times when debt is high, hope is low, and stomach is hungry.
Best of luck to you.
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
fallow, I would absolutely love to be involved in making movies. My dream job would be at weta workshop, though I realize that isn't a realistic goal.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Mack:
quote:When you pick another career, the art suffers
I guess I'm lucky that there are plenty of opportunities for artistic expression in the software world.
Art isn't just what you create, it's how you think and how you perceive the world. That thinking is going to find expression no matter what career you choose.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
fleetwood, so would I. too cool for school. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Not exactly. What I do is entirely different from my art and quite hard to be combined. While my career can provide inspiration, it also provides a lot of tiredness that becomes detrimental to finding enough energy to write significantly.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
skillery,
I'm inclined to side with Mack here. Creativity in raw form is a good and general thing, but as your name suggests, skill-sets are pretty key. (making no mention of time and energy, much less that wasted on trivial pursuits)
fallow
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Hell, I've had an outpouring of photography and have it all on my website. But I haven't sold any of it. I haven't gotten my business going for that.
I finished two novels while in college and a ton of short stories. Since graduating two years ago, I have four short stories and just 1/3 of my third novel completed. I should be finishing the novel this summer though, as I finally got through a major plotting snarl.
But that's a huge production slow-down. I haven't had the time or energy to CREATE as much as my drive is still there. I take photos while hiking (Physical activity is a necessity) and compose stories while I bike and run and hike and fall asleep.
Yes. We need to live. If I could sell this manuscript for my second novel, I'd be pretty set to do what I wanted (write more). I'm confident that it's a good book. But it hasn't sold yet, or found an agent, and honestly, I haven't dedicated enough time to GET that done, or it would be.
So yes. Find a skill set that'll give you a decent job in order to live. But make sure you like that job. And be aware that your creative production WILL go down.
Unless you stop sleeping.
But with that comes other issues. Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
There's always the possibility that you could marry someone who would be able to support you and your children, leaving you free to pursue your interests. I'm not saying you should marry for financial reasons only, but it's a possibility. So don't despair yet.
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
Phanto, I don't care if I go hungry for my art...but what kind of person would I be if I let my future wife and children go hungry.
Until recently I worked at walmart to pay the bills. It was physicaly and emotionaly draining. I quit because of the people I had to deal with (not everyone was bad but one mean person could ruin my week), incompetant management, and the the fact that after four years I was making less than six dollars an hour. I know some really awfull things that walmart does but am obligated by confidentiality agreement not to tell.
Though there is an art to being sarcastic to stupid people in such a way as they don't know it. And I've come up with several uncanny parallels between walmart and Oceania (sp?) from Orwell's 1984.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
mack,
really?
fallow
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
quote:an art to being sarcastic to stupid people
So you found art even in your minimum wage job at Walmart.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
fleetwood: Family is something entirely different. It's a trade. If you want a family, and your wife ain't gonna support it, then you have an obligation to it.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
quote: Maybe it's just that I live in the heart of a poor state little call for things of an artistic nature.
quote: I can't say how it is in other places because haven't traveled. But the oppressive prefab sterility of where I live is really starting to take its toll on me.
Traveling really does change ones perspective. It opens your mind to new possibilities that you probably would never have imagined if you just stayed put.
There are places in the States where I'm sure I'd end up every morning if I had to wake up there.
Of course I don't know your situation, but a move might open up wonderful unseen horizons for you that you've never been able to imagine before.
quote: I see trees of green, red roses too I see them bloom for me and you And I think to myself what a wonderful world.
I see skies of blue and clouds of white Are also on the faces of people going by I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do They're really saying I love you.
I hear babies crying, I watch them grow They'll learn much more than I'll never know And I think to myself what a wonderful world Yes I think to myself what a wonderful woI see trees of green, red roses too I see them bloom for me and you And I think to myself what a wonderful world.
I see skies of blue and clouds of white The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night And I think to myself what a wonderful world.
The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky Are also on the faces of people going by I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do They're really saying I love you.
I hear babies crying, I watch them grow They'll learn much more than I'll never know And I think to myself what a wonderful world
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I'm not sure that I'll be able to provide for them without selling out.
The whole "selling out" worry has always bothered me. Assuming were not talking about doing something you consider immoral, there's nothing wrong with taking a job for no other reason than the fact it gives you money to eat.
There's three ways to look at your possibilities, assuming you can't find an art teacher job:
1.) You take a job that you can leave at work, requires only 8 hours a day, that you can tolerate, but is not tied to your sense of fulfillment. In this scenario, you're bowing to the realistic notion that you have to work to live. You'll make less than if you had a "career" that required you to think about it after work and work longer hours, but you should be able leave it at the office. Finding this kind of job is more about the people where you work than the job you're doing. No sense of self is tied up in it.
2.) Work at your art and struggle financially. If it lets you do what you want in life, you're ahead of most people in the world. But, as you said, you have the potential family to support. The tradeoff here is fulfillment in your career with tradeoffs throughout the rest of your life - financial worries, less security, etc. Don't underestimate the extent of these worries. Financial concerns are not purely materialistic - they are important.
3.) Find a career that you can dedicate your self too. You'll work more, or at minimum will be thinking about the job at home. Don't underestimate how much that actually effects you. The problem is, you'll gradually spend less time on the art, and look back at yourself one day and say, "How the hell did I get here." With luck, you'll have saved money and be in a life situation where you can regroup.
One other thing to keep in mind: Money earned now is worth more than money earned later. If you can establish a cushion for yourself, you free up options that would be unavailable later. Just make sure you keep your soul while you do it.
Jobs that are "fulfilling" generally earn less, because people are willing to trade money for fullfillment. Recognize that money is necessary, but not as much as our culture seems to think. There's nothing dihonorable about doing an honest day's work in order to feed, shelter, and clothe your family. Even if you use your talent to do so, you're not "selling out."
Just make sure you don't ignore the other parts of yourself while you do it.
Dagonee Edit: And about the prefab sterility: Look at it as the blank canvas the people living their color in with their lives. Finding beauty in the non-obvious places is the true artist's calling.
[ June 24, 2004, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Somehow this thread reminds me of "Mr. Holland's Opus" -- where he really just wanted to be a musician and composer, and he felt like he was "selling out" to take a teaching job to support his family. But it ended up being a very blessed thing that touched many lives. Even if he only got one Opus done....
Farmgirl
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
too bad you're not a woman - you could get in line for the next big lawsuit coming down the pike at WalMart for underpaying women as compared to men - on the other hand, approx. $6.00 an hour after four years? WalMart might pay you to be a prime exhibit in their argument that they don't discriminate . . . .that could set you up in the business. (okay - that was a sorry attempt at inserting little humor)
Whatever you do, don't get into the human services field - that is for sure one quick way to annihilating any artistic sensibilities you may have harbored through sheer exhaustion.
Personally, I'd advise a home business such as landscaping or custodial wherein you can set your hours, get paid for some physical and satisfying work (satisfying because you can see the beginning and end point), and still have time and energy for your own pursuits including those of husband and papa.
Actually, there's nothing more creative than raising little persons. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Staying at home with the kids is an option, if finances allow. You will NOT get a smuch done on your art, since kids take up a lot of time. But if you set up a babysitting coop you can free some time up, as long as you bring the kids on errands with you when you don't have the sitter.
It's not so much that staying with kids takes less time as it is that you save on the money for day care. But you may find that your most creative times are still not available because of the kids schedule.
The big problem is that watercolors may be safe to do around the kids, but metal work really isn't. Once they're in school, you can use school time for art. You still save on day care, since it's very hard to find a job that let's you work just while the kids are in class.
Dagonee
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
We tried the stay-at-home-dad-who-does-art thing but it turned into the stay-at-home-dad-who surfs-the-web-all-day scenario. Guess how long that lasted?
[ June 24, 2004, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
That is the problem. I'm still looking for a way to fight crime and stay at home with the kids.
Dagonee
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Oh, and a note on the confidentiality agreement: confidentiality agreements just aren't allowed to prevent you from saying certain things. For instance, I'm pretty certain if a practice was illegal you can talk about it (at least to, say, a labor board, or lawyer for a suit against walmart) all you want.
Talk to a lawyer.
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
I took a blacksmithing class last fall from a professional blacksmith. He has a forge (well, several forges), and makes beautiful things for a living.
He teaches at RISD to give back to the community, and makes a great deal of custom work for private homes and companies. He makes a lot of his own equipment (all his tongs, his pressure hammer, the forge, etc).
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Since you do small jewelry style metal work, have you considered apprenticing with an artistic jeweler? They pay would suck, the hours would be long, and it might be a royal pain, but after a few years, who knows. You might be able to go out on your own as a master Jeweler.
I have a friend at work who opened their own on-line/off-line jewelry store making boring average costume jewelry, or selling the beads to others so they could make their own.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Shan is way, way right about human services draining energy.
Fallow: really.
Hmm. I'm going to have a lawsuit pending.. o_O
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Hey fleetwood, I'll trade you a much better website than that guy has for a nice (but small) piece of metalwork.
[ June 24, 2004, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
I don't think that the stuff about walmart that I know is illegal..just immoral. But I also know a lot of people who would stop shopping there if they knew about it.
fugu, if you're serious then i'll take you up on your offer. I've been thinking about starting to sell my stuff, but there just isn't a market for it here. A website could be just the ticket. Drop me an email.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
<--boycotts Wal-Mart
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Unless you have a trust fund, when you are an adult, you have to provide something of value so someone else will give you money so you can buy the things you cannot procure for yourself.
It's annoying, but it's the price of eating every day.
There is NO selling out in working for a living. That whole concept comes from two sources: (1) One is a conceit that money is filthy and there should have nothing to do with pure artists, and therefore to be an artist you can't work for the money. That comes from years of art being in the hands of those who were born to wealth. It isn't intrinsic, and it is not part of Western art tradition.
The other source is the concept of nobility - in Europe, anyone who worked for a living instead of living off of rents from his (and it was always a his) property could not be a member of the nobility. There were elaborate rules as to who could and could not claim to be noble, and that's where the crazy marriages came in, because trading a kid for money was fine, but working for money wasn't.
So, there's nothing wrong with working for a living. It has to happen. To be happy, find something you can do with your art, or, if that doesn't work, find a job that you can do that won't suck all the energy and will for art out of you.
[ June 24, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I'm perfectly serious. An email is on the way.
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
I absolutely don't think that there is anything wrong with working for a living. Also, there is nothing wrong with money. But I wont compromise my my artistic integrity for money. That is selling out.
I would shovel manure for a living before I changed my art out of love of money. I think doing anything out of love of money is wrong.
[ June 24, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: fleetwood ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
CHanging your art might be selling out. But using the skills you have that allow you to create art for something not art-worthy isn't. You wouldn't be doing it for love of money. You'd be taking care of an obligation to provide for yourself and your family (when you start one).
Dagonee
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
There's a difference between doing something artistic to make money, and compromising your values to make money. How is doing something (artistic) differently than you did before compromising your values?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
fleetwood:
When you get the website, as a writer, I'd be perfectly willing to assist in writing the content.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I do understand, however, not doing something you love as a job for fear of losing the love for it. That does need to be considered.
And of course, if you do feel like you're selling out, you have to answer to yourself, not us.
Dagonee
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
fleetwood - you might want to check out http://www.americancraft.com/, they've got some information and links for artists and businesses selling artwork and crafts. They also offer some courses to get you started. If nothing else, you might be able to pick up a few contacts and get their advice. There are certainly plenty of arists making a living out there, even if its not easy.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Some people seem to think that getting a job you dislike to earn money instead of "doing what you love" is selling out.
That's not selling out. That's growing up.
Yes, there are a few lucky people say "I would still do this even if I didn't get paid", but there are also a few lucky people who win the lottery. A realistic adult just won't count on that happening to them.
After all, if my job were that fun to do, I'd have to pay them to do it. There's a reason why I get paid money. Because it's work.
[ June 24, 2004, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Its worth noting that American Craft, which though it seems to have good advice, renders most of that advice in book form, and their website serves largely as a marketing vehicle for those books. I could find almost nothing in the way of actual content on the website proper.
The forums seem to be decent, though, if not very highly populated.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
You get paid because you have a relative advantage at doing it. Lots of people work at things which are enjoyable. Now, the true efficiency at doing work does take into account individuals particular distastes for doing something, but those are merely additional "costs", not some sort of insurmountable barrier -- after all, you do it.
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
I think an example of an artist selling out is if a customer offers you money to make something that pains your soul to do.
1) some people would be against working for certain types of customers, like a casino or adult video store.
2) some people would find it wrong to use their skills to make lewd or sacriligious artwork
It's not that someone is saying, "it's a sell out to get paid for my work," but that sometimes you have to make a decision much greater and harder than that.
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
mr. portiero head, I don't think that having a job that I dislike is selling out and I don't think taking money for art is selling out. But changing the meaning of my work for the sake of money is selling out. I want to do what I love for a career, and making a career out of doing what I love without compromising the meaning of it will be difficult. .
I have nothing but the utmost respect for people who work at jobs nobody in their right mind would want to work at to provide for their families. I will try to make a career out of making art as long as I can. If I'm not able to provide for my future family by making art, I will do anything so long as I can provide for them.
I simply wanted advice as to how make a career out of my making art.
[ June 24, 2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: fleetwood ]
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:Yes, there are a few lucky people say "I would still do this even if I didn't get paid", but there are also a few lucky people who win the lottery. A realistic adult just won't count on that happening to them.
You mean I could win the lottery as well?
I studied English in college in order to become a writer, and voila, I'm working as a writer and supporting my family just fine. Would I do it even if I didn't get paid? Heck no. I have just enough business sense to make sure I get paid to do what I love to do all day. But I like my job, and I'm glad I have it. Things could have worked out much differently for me.
However, I would work at any number of jobs to support my family, and I wouldn't feel like I was somehow upsetting the purity of my skills as a writer even if I were sweeping floors somewhere.
I trained for what I felt I wanted to do. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. But I knew there was a good chance I would have to earn my living in other ways, or go back to school for more training in a more "practical" vocation. That's just the way things are sometimes.
Fleetwood, you really did specialize in areas that might not have lots of immediate, general application in the job market. Maybe using your broader art background will help you stay in the art or design field, but you might find that metalworking and watercolor painting will stay in the side business or hobby status.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Fleetwood, I am aware that you never said that. When I said "Some people seem to think that...", I wasn't implying that somebody here has said that. But I have encountered that thought, and I was using it as a contrast to express my own thoughts.
My words weren't meant as an attack on anybody who is dedicated to earning their wages doing what they love. As long as you realize what you are giving up, it's fine.
I have a good friend who got a bachelors and a masters in literature. She loved what she studied. I got a bachelors and a masters in mechanical engineering, which I loved studying. She took it as personally unfair that I had more job opportunities upon graduation than she did.
Acutally, it is unfair. But what can you do?
I don't think I could ever have the courage to make my living as an artist or entrepeneur, and I'm envious of the people even willing to try.
It's not exciting, but I really want the stability that comes from being a cog in the machine. If I were single, perhaps it would be different. I could handle being personally poor, but it would be much more difficult to inflict that upon my family, just like fleetwood said.
Suneun -- those examples are by no means limited to artists. It would be a sell out if I sold my services to the adult entertainment, alcohol, or tobacco industry.
[ June 24, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Just checking to make sure my email got through.
Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
Yeah fugu, your email went through. I'm thinking about it before I respond.
I would appreciate any help you can give Phanto, thanks.
Thanks to everybody else for responding as well.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I know this feeling... I want to make a living writing. I am tired of working at the supermarket, of not earing enough money or having a social life or being stuck on foodstamps when they can decide to cut 90% of them. Currently I dislike my life and situation...
But only a bit.
[ June 24, 2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Synesthesia ]
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
mph I don't think it makes a difference in my argument that it can apply to everyone.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
mack,
I have a hard time getting my head around the sheer productivity you describe and the apparent lack of reward for it. it's rigoddamndiculous! not to mention fairly depressing.
fallow
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
*bump*
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
What, my two novels?
The first is a first novel and has all the problems of that type.
The second is...well, I need to get off my ass.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
*delivers swift kick to Mack's booty*
anything I can do to help?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yeah, find me an agent. Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
wish I could. I could try and "play" agent. What are you trying to do?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I have to sell my manuscript to a publisher. Generally, you need an agent. So I have to query agents, get one of them to read the manuscript, agree to represent it, and hopefully, sell it to a publishing house.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
(not an agent)
What kind of response have you gotten so far? What kind of avenues have you tried?
curious.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I sent out queries about a year ago, and sent off stuff to Tor. No response from Tor ever, and negatives from agents. *sigh*
And I KNOW it's a good novel. I KNOW it is.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
oh.
why do you KNOW it is? and, what about the photography thing? Is that part of the books?
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I mentioned this thread to a coworker, Barbara. It's her bf (Jim) who is the electrician/tinsmith. Jim does demos at our local Fort Museum. Jim knows a guy who does this six months of the year and collects unemployment for the other six months. Apparently he gets enough to live on.
The types of things Jim makes include small things you can hold in your hands. I think Barbara mentioned some of his recent work - a wall sconce is the only thing I can remember. I'll email you his email addy so you can ask him quesions if you want. He does trade on ebay, but the name Barbara gave me didn't come up.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Because I've been told that by many brutally honest people.
And I could easily do a photography book...one of my projects was a photojournalessay thing that I still have to finish.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
on what?
what did the brutally honest people say? were they familiar with the writing content found in the places you were submitting to?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
lots of the stuff is explained there Posted by fleetwood (Member # 6530) on :
Thanks, Caysedai.
I've actually sold some stuff at a fundraiser for my schools art department. Jewelry made from silver and antique watch parts.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
mack,
thanks for the link. photography's hard. I think. Possibly more difficult than writing.
fallow
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I actually find it easier for some reason.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
To sell or to do? Sorry, I should have prefaced that last post with the commercial/biz aspect you lamented in the post I was originally interested in.
[ June 26, 2004, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: fallow ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Oh, to DO. Everything is hard to sell.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Then why do I spend so much money?
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
Mack,
on the writing thing. where do you think the disconnect is between your harsh but available critics and your unresponsive, unavailable (commercial) ones?
fallow
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Having time to read the manuscript.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
that's hopeful.
could I read something of it?
[ June 26, 2004, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: fallow ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Sure. I'll email you the first three chapters.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
really?!
that would be sweet. something to read over the weekend!
thanks in advance.
fallow
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
sent Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
I also went the stupid route in my education (major in cultural anthropology, minors in religious studies and literature).
Guess what education I have never used except in my hobbys?
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
every morning if I had to wake up there.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(okay - that was a sorry attempt at inserting little humor)![[Smile]](smile.gif)