I am interested in a basic music recording set-up. I mostly want it to be able to record myself (plus maybe my wife) playing and then play along with myself.
But I have no idea what is required for that. What I think I want (I may very well be wrong) is one or two microphones (I was told Shure sm57 is a good basic one to get) with stands, some simple mixer for the two microphones, and then something to hook it all into the computer to record.
Does this sound right? What kind of cost am I looking at for all of this? How much would that mixer cost? What do I need to connect it all up to the computer?
[ July 19, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I'm not sure about the equipment, but an excellent bit of software I'd reccommend is Apple's Soundtrack. Not sure if there's a PC version, but maybe there's something comparable. It's easy to work with and pretty user-friendly while still allowing for a lot of variability for those with a little more musical knowledge than the average bear.
Music is one of the three industries in which Mac still holds the prominent spot, but I'm sure there are plenty of good PC options inexpensively available. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Yes, I forgot to ask that question. What is some cheap (read free) PC software that I could use? Right now I use Audacity for some stuff. Would that serve me OK?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Sm57s are great workhorse mics. You might also check into some MXL Large Diagphragm condensers-- very inexpensive for this type of mic (should be able to find it for close to what the SM57 costs). With a little more cash, I highly recommend the Rode NT-5 condenser, but it sounds like you are doing this on the cheap, yes?
For a mixer, the Mackie 1202VLZ should do you well... if that's too expensive, Behringer makes a copy of it. The high quality (VLZ on the Mackie, Behringer calls them something else) preamps are important. A compressor might come in handy and shuldn't bee too expensive.
I don't know of any free software that is good, but the now Sony, formerly Sonic Foundry line of products is excellent. You can probably get trial copies of Vegas (multitrack audio) and Sound Forge (audio finishing and mastering) which will last you through a single project.
These are powerful pieces of software and I recommend learning them as well as you can before downloading the trial versions so as to maximize your actual usage and minimize the "gee what does *this* do?" time...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Ok, slow down. I'm pretty ignorant of such things. What's a condensor? What does it do? Why do I want it?
Same with a pre-amp.
What is a reasonable price for a Mackie 1202VLZ? For it's copy?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I'm expecting twinky to jump in here at some time... since he is always sharing with us recordings he has made of himself.....
FG
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I think he uses Apple's newest music software, which certainly isn't avliable in PC format.
Hobbes
[ July 19, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I think the 1202VLZ goes for about $150 new, the knock off is about $99. I'll check for you and get back.
"condenser" refers to a style of microphone... it's powered and produces a much cleaner, stronger signal. They are prefered for both distant Micing and for Vocal recording (particularly large diapragm ones). They tend to be more expensive, larger, and more delicate, but this isn't always the case.
The pre-amp is the part of the mixer where the mic cable plugs in. It's a crucial point in the signal chain and high quality ones are well worth it.
The "compressor" is a different piece that you might have confused with the condenser microphones. It smooths out the peaks in the signal, allowing you to get more overall volume and a cleaner, fatter sound. Extremely important for bass and drums, less so for vocals and guitar, but still helpful.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
My favorite thing about this topic is the (me) in the title.
[ July 19, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
So when you say "MXL Large Diagphragm condensers", you are referring to getting a different type of microphone?
Also, what do I need to buy to connect this all up to the computer? I know someone who has something that looks like a cable modem which connects to his computer via USB. Is this what I want? What is it called? What does it cost?
edit:
Oh, and JM, while you are at it (looking up prices for the knock-off), could you tell me what exactly the knock-off is called?
My hope is that by the end of this thread, I will have a shopping list of exactly what to buy. My ignorance will necessitate it being a pretty specific list.
[ July 19, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
The Mackie now sells for about $370, and you will be ok without it
this should be a good start... for the interface to your computer, you probably don't need the USB thing but they *are* good (Sound Blaster Audigy, is, I believe what you are describing). The "phantom power" is important for using condenser mics-- it's what powers them.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
OK, if I don't get one of the USB thingies, what do I get instead?
When you said "I think the 1202VLZ goes for about $150 new" and "The Mackie now sells for about $370", are you referring to the same thing? If so, I'll definitely go for the knock off (Beringher UB802) at only $60.
From what you said, I don't think I'll bother with a condensor microphone at the present time. If I ever feel the need for one, I'll deal with it at that time.
This "phantom power" you mentioned -- that came out of left field for me. Is that a feature of the Sound Blaster Audigy?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
the "mackie" and the "vlz1202" are the same thing yes.
if you don't get the audigy, your sound card should be sufficient. In fact, if you aren't going to be doing pro stuff, you're probably fine with your sound card.
The phantom power is a feature of the mixer.
your choice on the mics, but it will be difficult to obtain two good SM57s for $100, which is what the twin pack of condensers is selling for. I really think that's the better thing to get for home recording.
I think that covers it for you?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
These two condensor mikes -- they are more fragile than sm57? That's a concern in a house with 3 toddlers (mine).
So if I don't get that USB thing, can the mixer plug directly into my sound card? My sound card only has the small headphone-sized outlets. I'd be really surprised if the mixer has an output like that.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
The mixer doesn't, but it should have "rca" outputs (like the ones on your stereo) and you can get a cable that goes from stereo RCA to 1/8" (which is the hole on your sound card)
you probably don't want your toddlers banging the SM57s around either, but yes, they will sustain the damage better than the condensors. If you go back to the musician's friend site, they have some mics on sale in bundles... there was a pair of AKG dynamic mics ("dynamic" just means "not a condenser") for like $80. Those are pretty good and cheaper than the sm57s.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
For an unrelated reason, I need to buy a new sound card for my computer (and work will pay for it!). Do you have any suggestions beyond getting one that has RCA input?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
You guys sound like the Donna the Buffalo taper-geeks! I always think tech talk is just a little bit sexy. Kind of like listening to people speak a foreign language.
MPH, you might want to check out some of the message boards on www.etree.org. because there might be some taping rigs for sale. Everyone is all gaga about one guy's Schoepps mics, that is all I know. But they cost thousands, apparently. I am sure Jim-Me knows about them.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
no real suggestions... look at the audigy and similar set ups and go with the cheapest. It's really not that difficult.
Turtle Beach makes really quality sound cards and sometimes bundles recording software with them.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
This is completely different from the style of recording I do -- I run my instruments directly into my computer, no mixer, no microphones, nothing. Just instruments and cables.
So this thread has been informative for me, too, because I have no idea how to record instruments using microphones.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
You could go really old-fashioned and find an old building with good acoustics (read - the right amount of 'verb) and just play ye ole' acoustic style onto cassette - before you invest a ton of money in equipment.
Other less expensive alternatives, if you really want the tech sound rather than the "campfire" sound, would be to check out your local colleges. Frequently, sound engineering students need a semester recording project.
One more idea would be performing at your local "open mic" shows and asking the tech to make a copy for you (bring your own tape)or again, place your standard boom box in a prime location and tape it live.
Just a thought - (recording practices for the broke)
An
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I'm just wanting to record (for myself only) in my home office.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
you might also see what it costs to get an old tascam 4-track (I'd bet less than $100 for even a pretty nice one).
It's a mixer and recorder all in one.... and records on normal cassettes.
they're pretty cool.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
It is true. A lot of the live tapers are going to digital now, and will probably be selling their old stuff.
You can easily hook up a casette player to the computer, and do it Shan's way.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Twinky -- what software do you use for this? Do you have any suggestions for cheap/free software I can use?
Posted by kerinin (Member # 4860) on :
i just spent like 3 weeks getting into almost exactly what you're talking about, except i'm more interested in portable recording for travel. I got a behringer B-5 Microphone and a Sound Devices MM-1 Preamp with phantom power. I really like the mic so far, and the preamp is really nice (though expensive), it has battery power so you can take it around places and record pretty high quality stuff.
You mentioned not wanting a condenser mic, and i was thinking the same thing, they sound complicated and phantom power is just wierd. i wouldn't suggest getting a normal (they're called diaphram i think) mic. I have one of both, and the condenser mic is MUCH better. if you're not interested in being mobile, you could get the B-5 i got ($90 i think) and the mixer console UB-802 for $60, then all you would really need is a cord that converts from mic-style plug (XLR) to regular computer plug (mini stereo/ 1/8"), and you're pretty much ready to go.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
much easier to find RCA to 1/8" than XLR to 1/8" and the mixer in question does have RCA outs... but other than that I got no complaints with that advice
[ July 20, 2004, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by kerinin (Member # 4860) on :
oh, and in case you're looking for a portable mp3 player on the side, the Neuros player has a built-in mic and line-in with a record function. it'll make mp3's that you can transfer via USB to your computer and play with, and is pretty cheap for what it is. it also has a FM radio TRANSMITTER which means you can listen to it in the car without worrying about cords or anything.
Posted by kerinin (Member # 4860) on :
oh yeah. forgot to look at that mixer closely...
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
sorry, I edited for clarity.... didn't mean to confuse the situation
Posted by sarfa (Member # 579) on :
My set-up, which is far from ideal, but works pretty good for guitar recording, is as follows: I use an SM-57 runnning into an M-Audio mobile pre-amp which hooks up into a USB port. I then use the Cakewalk studio software. The whole set-up cost me about $250, which is pretty cost effective. It gives you good multi-tracking ability for your own playback, but I would NOT recommend it for anything remotely professional. Anyway hope that helps.
Posted by sarfa (Member # 579) on :
Kerinin, those cords that convert from XLR to anything else are pretty pricey beacuse more has to be done then just plug on an adapter (I think the one I used with my old four track cost about $50 or $60). I would suggest getting a pre-amp that has XLR inputs already, I think mine cost about $80, which is cheaper and better then buying a converter cord.
[ July 20, 2004, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: sarfa ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I have a Mac, so I use GarageBand.
The reason I can run stuff right into my computer without having it come out sounding crappy is that I have an effects processor for my guitar that models amps and speakers, right down to the simulated position of the simulated microphone. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
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