Sorry, I had to delete it. I considered giving warning but at the moment nothing was more important than preventing the shame and hurt of a fellow hatracker.
Please feel free to continue the discussion.
If anything like that gets posted in here again, I'll delete it again.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I hope someone knows! I just woke up. Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Storm Saxon asked if any women here actually felt totally happy with their bodies.
I'd be lying if I said 100%. But I feel I'm pretty close. Sure I poke fun at myself for some stomach flub that comes and goes, or acne that won't go away (all my father's fault, he has horrible skin). But when it really matters, I can feel totally comfortable with my body.
I used to ask my friends way-back-when when they were deciding whether or not to lose their virginity to some guy they were dating that there were certain things I thought were necessary to answer first. And the pertinent one for here is, "Are you truly comfortable with your body? Can you stand around naked in front of this guy and not feel ashamed?" I think it says a lot about self-esteem, self-worth, and trust.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
PSI, yes, you should have put a warning... I saw very interesting stuff yesterday in it, but didn't have the time to read it all. I have no idea what happened later in the thread, though... If things like this happen again, consider saving the pages with non-offensive content so that if anyone wants them you can e-mail the pages to them. (right-click on the page and then "view source", than save it as a html)
[ August 07, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Corwin ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I think there have been moments where I thought I was totally beautiful, and a few of them were totally independent of my husband, so that's good. I'm kinda striving to feel beautiful without my husband to tell me that, with his admiration as icing on the cake. It doesn't happen often but it's nice when it does. I'm thinking specifically of my wedding day. Looking back at the pictures I wasn't more beautiful than most brides, but I thought I was then. It's all about perception, which has already been said.
Corwin, since you didn't see it, consider the fact that it may have been too bad to save.
Ergh: Page-saving. Yes you're right. Thought you meant the thread. Sorry
[ August 07, 2004, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Thank you. I was in the process of adding my admonition to the pile.
Didn't get to read the earlier discussion, though.
I doo remember Storm Saxons' question about who likes their body, though, and felt I should respond.
I love my body. It's strong and healthy. It does what I require of it. It's helped me bear and nourish two beautiful boys; it gives pleasure to me and my mate. I love the little red moles dotted on my (relatively) pale skin. I like my pale skin-- no tanning for me! I like my long, slender fingers and strong nails. I like the shape of my fingernails and toenails. I like my plain, brown hair. I even like my small breasts, and those marks left on my body by life, the scars, the stretchmarks, the little lines beginning to emerge around my eyes and mouth. I like my larger-than-proportion-would-dictate booty.
Sure, part of me would like to lose some inches in posterior, but I've always had that thought-- even when I was well and truly skinny. Therefore I don't trust that feeling. *shrug*
Partly because of the gentle ministrations of friends like CT, my ego (deserved or not) is very healthy. Even bootylicious, I still think I'm pretty hot. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
As far as women being comfortable, I think those would be some pretty special women. Everything from birth is geared to make you self-concious, from those first little "Awen't you a pwetty widdle girl?" That contrast sharply with "My what a strong boy you are!" that we know our big brothers hear.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Do you know I wasn't even aware of my body until I hit puberty, and ever since then I have been uncomfortable with it.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
quote: "Are you truly comfortable with your body? Can you stand around naked in front of this guy and not feel ashamed?"
I think that's a great indicator of how to tell if you are ready for sex. So many people I know, my friends included, jump into sexual relations with men while they still feel completely uneasy about their body.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Well, it's easy to believe the adults who tell you you're pretty, until you get old enough to realize that all adults are morons.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
When I was younger -- in my late teens -- I really was happy with my body (and I know that is very unusual for teens). However, let me preface that by saying I had a very nice BODY - but not-so-nice face.
In fact, a friend in school once said to me "you know, from the neck down you could be a model" -- which, of course, forever after made me obsess about how ugly my face was... <SIGH>
But there's only so much you can do with buck teeth and freckles...
Farmgirl (and now I wish I had taken better care of that body)
[ August 07, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I never understood the thing about freckles.
Just WHAT is wrong with freckles?!
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
I can understand that S4E. I tend to feel gawky and out of place very very often, but then I just get so darn tired of feeling down and awkward that I say a great big "screw anyone who thinks badly of me" and then I feel fine. People tend to find me much more fun when I'm in those moods Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
I think freckles are very attractive on women!
Farmgirl, judging from your personality, I'm sure your countenance was much more beautiful than anyone else's, and that brightens up a face more than looks ever could.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I like freckles, I miss the ones that uses to be on my face, luckily the ones on my arms are still there.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
OK, I am paranoid, did someone say something mean about me? Or did I say something that hurt someone else?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
School -- you mean in the original thread? Nah -- I think they are referring to someone else...
FG
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Freckles.
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
I like freckles.
(Am I allowed in here, being male and all? )
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I think freckles are great. I only get freckles temporarily, if I'm out in the sun frequently. Then they just fade away again in about a month. I love having freckles. I haven't had any for the past couple of years. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I've always been freckled. I usually didn't mind myself, but if someone made a negative remark about them, it would have hurt. I guess I liked to think they were cute and hoped others thought so also.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I always have my arm freckles, and most of the time they don't see the light of day.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Farmgirl-- I went to a sleepover with some classmates when I was in Chrisian school. I had these cute little baby-doll pajamas to sleep in. One of the girls said to me, "That would be sexy on anybody else."
O_O I was skinny. Some years later I began to have a face that would qualify as 'pretty' but I always knew I'd never wow anybody with my body. So, I had the opposite obsession. Didn't help when, after college, one of my mother's friends who owned a store told me I should "model sportsware" since my fresh face would make up for booblessness. O_O the mind boggles at how that could ever be seen as a compliment. *shakes head*
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Freckles rock.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I have very fair skin and have always had freckles. I have them all over my face, and I always envied my best friend who only had them across the bridge of her nose. I didn't particularly like them, but there were other things about my appearance that bothered me more - I have a rather prominent chin that REALLY bothered me when I was younger.
I was more bothered by the fact that I couldn't tan, than that I had freckles. I grew up in California, and every summer, I would get endless teasing about my lack of a tan. I tried and tried and tried, but I never did tan. Finally, my senior year, I realized it was a futile effort, and said to heck with them. It's not worth it, and tease away.
Now, though, it's another story. All of the girls that I went to school with are showing the effects of all that sun worship. I have not a single wrinkle on my face, my chest or my legs. All the years of sunblock and floppy hats have paid dividends and life is sweet. I look 10 years younger than all those sun worshippers. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Olivetta, I sooooo can sympathize with you....
All my life I wished I could be one of those who could "wow" with my body. Ain't never gonna happen though. That makes me a little sad, but I have mostly made my peace with it. Being happily married helps. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: I have not a single wrinkle on my face, my chest or my legs. All the years of sunblock and floppy hats have paid dividends and life is sweet. I look 10 years younger than all those sun worshippers. [Big Grin]
That's the payoff! I remember wearing shorts with my white, white legs and guys telling me, "Girl, get a tan!!" As though it was a crime to be that color! I am glad I found a man who appreciates my ghostly whiteness. He says he thinks it is feminine. Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
No sun for me. The sun is evil.
I love my white skin and the white skin of my kids (although the girls have their father's coloring and aren't nearly as pale as me - Daniel though is as ghostly as I am.)
My family history is completely free of cancer (heart disease kills us all) except for one great aunt that had skin cancer. I don't mess around in the sun, and I don't see the payoff. Tans don't look all that attractive to me - I prefer to see someone who is their natural color, and not looking like they were baked in an oven.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I've actually had patients in clinic comment that my skin is too pale and white. That usually reminds me to give my lecture about tanning and sun protection. They usually regret bringing the subject up. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I wonder if tans will go out of style now with all the concern about skin cancer and other damage from the sun? I know that even in just the last few years being white has become more acceptable than when I was in high school.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
That is an interesting point. Then again, smoking has been known to be bad for your health for decades now and that's still pretty "in style" blegh.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
True, true. But I also think it is not as cool as it used to be before we knew how bad for you it is.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
In my experience growing up in Oklahoma (I graduated from high school in '92) is that smoking is only "in" for a very small population of the youth. Unless you hung out with the 'stoner' crowd, smoking was definitely not cool.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Large pictures of leather-faced former sunbathers scattered around schools is a good idea.
People always gasp and say how young I look for my age. Mothers of kids my boy's age assume I'm still a twenty-something. I'm convinced it has a lot to do with sun damage in the general populace, and my lack of it. Then again, my mom was often mistaken for a teenager when she was in her 30s (my brother's school friends were mad for her) so maybe I got a bit of her 'graceful aging' gene. Here's hopin'! Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I am personally very skeptical of all these new warnings about skin cancer. I'm no sun worshipper, but I figure that if my body needs protection from the sun, it will creat it's own. Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Hm, well that's really good to hear. I'm moving to Oklahoma! Although, here in south Florida (or at least in my high school a few years ago) all the "cool kids" smoked, and if one opted not to then they were pretty much deigned uncool and, get this, immature.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Wow! I thought it had been decades since non-smokers were deemed less mature than smokers. That is sad.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Well, where I lived in Oklahoma was not a typical town, so YMMV. It was a pretty bizarre town.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Totally is. It got even worse when everyone discovered marajuana senior year. sigh. not the topic though, sorry.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I have freckles EVERYWHERE. Even in random spots, like on the palm-side of a finger. When I got that one, I thought it was dirt or something and spent a whole day trying to get it off before I realized it was permanent. My shoulders and back have permanent freckles. The once on my face tend to fade and reappear in the sun (much as my hair shifts from strawberry blonde to light blonde with continued sun exposure). I have a lot of moles. Yes, I see a dermatologist and get my moles checked regularly. Yes, I wear sunscreen. I put sunscreen on my face daily. So far I've had two moles removed. One of them, the dermatologist said, had cells that looked "funky."
o_O
I also blush very easily.
And look younger than I am.
As in, if I'm snowboarding and wearing my ski hat, 15 year old boys love to hit on me. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: As in, if I'm snowboarding and wearing my ski hat, 15 year old boys love to hit on me. [Mad]
That is so similar to a story my Mom tells. She was a college student skiing and a 14 year old boy started hitting on her. She's like "Just how young do you think I am?" But the wonderful thing is now in her older years she still looks so youthful.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm glad that it's become somewhat more acceptable to be pale. Before I started dying my hair red, people used to bug me all the time about You Would Look So Cute With A Tan. Now that I'm a fake redhead, I'm left alone about my paleness. Plus, I'm out of Florida, which has made a huge difference.
And freckles are cute. Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
quote: Plus, I'm out of Florida, which has made a huge difference.
Haha, I know that feeling. Being pale in Florida is like walking barefoot in the snow. People look at you as if you're this crazed lunatic.
On another matter, are those artificial tanning salons worse or better for you than real tanning? I've heard both.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I always thought the artificial tanning salons were still really bad for you. I'm not sure either, though.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Jamie is sexy, freckles and all. I'll have to do something about those 15 year olds, though.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Ok, due to being out of school and oh so bored, I looked it up
quote: Heading to a tanning bed is just as dangerous as tanning outdoors.
Tanning beds release dangerously high levels of ultraviolet (UV) radiation, which can cause premature aging of the skin and increase risk for skin cancer.
Short-term indoor tanning can cause red, itchy, dry skin.
Long-term indoor tanning can cause sagging, wrinkled skin.
Tanning beds can also burn your skin and eyes and damage your immune system.
I was severely sunburned as a child. (Think screaming in the shower.) I never have fully recovered from that and when I get a lot of sun there are patches that tan darker than others. Lucky me. Severe risk of skin cancer, wheeee! Now, everytime anything even looks a bit weird I'm ordered to have it removed. I don't mind cause I'm all about prevention, but I sure wish my mom had put sun screen on me that day. I was only out for an hour, maybe two at the most.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Let me say something based on personal observation: We " Cariocas" (People born and raised in Rio de Janeiro) like to sunbathe a lot. The beaches are always full, most days are really sunny, etc. And it was proved on researches that our skin-cancer rate isn't significantly higher than in other cities. Even european or american ones. So. I'm with porteiro_head on that. Your body will create natural protection, given tive.
(of course, not being the 'normal' kind of carioca, I don't go much to the beach, even though it isn't far from home, and I burn preety bad in the sun)
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
PSI, that's horrible! Now the next time I shower I will have your screams in my head!
I guess it varies. My mother is on chemo (for her arthritus) and if she goes in the sun for fifteen minutes she gets very ill, but even before that she was very fair and burned a lot. My sister is the same, but my dad and I are fairly dark.
edit: poor speller
[ August 07, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: from Cythera ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
As a young lad I found myself enjoying the festivities of the local water pavilion. Being a boy of small sense I partook but once of the sacred sun screen in the morning of my little adventure. As the following day dawned I found myself a new patron host for those irritating boils, upon my shoulder seemed to be the hot spot of substandard-skin society, so much so that they had decided it would be most magnificent to have boils upon other boils.
It was not until the passage of two fortnights that I was able to bare my weight through shoulder straps without disrupting the boil’s rather heated party, unfortunately I was employed in a rough company of adolescent miscreants for the purpose of lifting heavy things. For the addle-mindedness of youth, a high price is demanded.
Hobbes Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I wonder if people with fair skin are more prone to not only sunburn but cancer also. Ny body is capable of producing good, strong, melanin, but it isn't nearly as good at it as you would expect. After all, my body insists on churning out black or near-black hair. Why can't it tint my skin well against the sun?
I do tan a bit. The parts of me that are normally exposed to light turn a golden color. But that is as far as I seem able to go. Other than that gold, my body will freckle. I imagine freckles don't protect that well against the harmful rays of the sun seeing as the space in between them is completely vulnerable. I sometimes think of my freckles and laugh at my body's inefficiency to defend itself against the rays of the sun.
My "tan" color is lighter than Porter's natural color. So, Porter has never been overly concerned about getting sunburned, and likewise doesn't worry too much about skin cancer. His body seems to put up a good fight. I imagine the people in Brazil have better natural defenses against the sun also.
I would be devistated, though, if he got malignant skin cancer. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ah, I was wondering if that might be related to chemo. My mother had chemo about two years ago and she still gets extremely sick in the sun. I wonder if her reactions to the chemo will ever go away. CT?
[ August 07, 2004, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
ClaudiaTherese: Unfortunatelly, I read it in a newspaper, some months ago. I'll try to find the research (it'll probably be in portuguese, though). As soon as I do, I'll put it here.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
PSI, this is from the American Cancer Society website as well.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
My face is okay, but there isn't a single thing about my body I wouldn't change.
Yes, I'm a victim to Cosmo, Stormy.
edit: We're talking about tans and not self-image now, aren't we.
[ August 07, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I'm afraid I'm on call, and too distracted to do any reseach unrelated to work this weekend.
I have seen genetically dark skinned individuals with melanomas.
I have in the past year seen two caucasian girls in their early 20s who had melanomas and they had a history of suntanning two or three times in a tanning bed and no history of sunburns ever. Pretty scary.
[ August 07, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Hmmm...it seems you're right. Well, I don't go much to the beach, anyway.
Hey! Found the newspaper here at home! It not monthes old. Only weeks. Now I'll try to find the article on the web.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I'll have to make sure Porter reads this. Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Back towards the original topic, I watched a PBS special years ago that contained a story about the MGM boss Louis Mayer who looked at screen tests of both Deanna Durbin and Judy Garland, a couple years before Wizard of Oz got made. He looked at both, then said "drop the fat one". They kept Judy Garland and dropped Deanna Durbin. Mayer was mad because they had misunderstood who the fat one was. Personally I thought it served him right.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ummm...fat? That's so weird. Especially since she was playing a little girl.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
It wasn't a test specifically FOR Wizard of Oz. It was just for a contract at MGM to make movies for them. At that time actresses signed up with specific studios and only made movies for that studio.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:That is so similar to a story my Mom tells. She was a college student skiing and a 14 year old boy started hitting on her. She's like "Just how young do you think I am?" But the wonderful thing is now in her older years she still looks so youthful.
Similar experience: About four years ago or so, when I was, oh, 42 or 43 or so, I was in shooting pool one day. So this 18 year old (he told me his age) started hitting on me. Not bad for the ego, of course, so I let him go on awhile while making sure not to lead him on. Finally, it got to be too much (I could barely control my laughter), and I asked him how old he thought I was. At that point, he figured something was off so he wouldn't really answer, but asked, "How old are you?" I loved the look on his face when I told him I was old enough to be his mom.
Now, I think I look every bit of my 47 years old. But people often take me for 10 to 15 years younger than I am. And I'm often shocked to find out that people who look, to me, as if they are in their mid to late fifties or older are roughly my age. I don't get it. It isn't as if I have baby-smooth skin or anything. A lot of it may be that while I have some gray or white hair, it isn't that noticeable except in certain kinds of light, as well as the fact that I wear my hair very long. I don't know, but it's nice for my self-image.
Oh, and something I meant to comment on over on the other thread and never got around to: someone posted something about ballet dancers and how they are sometimes encouraged to do things like take up smoking in order to keep their weight down.
Well, I sometimes do props for a semi-professional ballet company. The people who run the company have a hugely healthy attitude toward weight. They are constantly encouraging the dancers to eat and not get too thin; and the smoking thing to keep thin is a big no-no with them. I was kind of hesitant to work with them at first, considering my status as a fat chick. I thought I might run into a lot of fat prejudice from the dancers. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nicest bunch of people you'd ever want to work with. And that includes the professional guest dancers who come in for the different productions.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
My mother-in-law is like this. Before she introduced me to her son, she told me about him. I couldn't figure out why it was so important to her that I meet him; I couldn't imagine that she could have had a son older than eight. Then I met him, and he was almost 17. O_O
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: Yes, I'm a victim to Cosmo, Stormy.
Edit: Let me rephrase. I don't believe the dissatisfaction women feel with their bodies often has a social basis.
[ August 07, 2004, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
You know, I actually didn't read what you wrote in the other thread, I just look for opportunities to complain about my body in public.
But now I'm interested. Repeat what you said for my benefit?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I just asked if there were any women who were happy with their bodies. Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
I want an epiphany, Stormy.
Best get to steppin'.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Ralphie, I think women are a lot more detail oriented. Their brains are wired to be so. They store more colors and textures in their heads. So, to get to the level of 'looking good' requires a much higher level of factors to align such that women feel like they are 'good looking'. So, you could burn every picture of women in existence, and most women would still be uncomfortable in their bodies because there would always be some detail that didn't make the package work. If it wasn't one thing, it would be something else.
I have other components of my theory, too. I think women are much more socially involved than men(for biological reasons?), too. So, they live more in other people's heads than men do.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Hrm.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Of course, I'm more than willing to admit that it could all be part of the man's plan to keep women down, too.
By the way, nice to see you in a thread, Ms. Ralphie. Hope you don't let it stop here. Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I was just wondering what everyone thought was their best physical feature, on the last thread we discussed our worst, so why not state your best.
I like my eyes because they change color. Sometimes they are blue, sometimes they are grey, and occasionally they are green. One of my eyes has a cool hazel splotch on it. The hazel part always stays hazel.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: Not bad for the ego, of course
I bet! That is a fun story. I hope 18 year old guys are hitting on my when I am in my forties.
Best feature? Hmmmmmmmm.
I will tell you what I like about myself. I have always had shapely calves/ankles/feet. My feet are narrow and delicate with high arches. My ankles as thin as can be. My calfs are slender with nice curves. It ticks me off, though, that so few guys in my life have openly shown admiration for this part of my body.
I like my contrast of fair skin, dark hair, and light eyes. I like that I have prominent, high cheekbones and full lips. I like that I tend to have a small waist compared to my hips. (Gotta loose a bit more weight to get that looking like it did, that would be nice.) With my wide hips, smaller waist, and broad shoulders, I have perhaps caught some glances from guys. Enough for a first look anyway.
I haven't decided if I like my nose or not. I think perhaps some people like it. It is unusual and distinct. I am just not sure if I like it.
[ August 08, 2004, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
quote: Of course, I'm more than willing to admit that it could all be part of the man's plan to keep women down, too.
I'm mulling over what you said. I think it has some validity to it. However, when men say they aren't 'detail-oriented' about looks, that just means they want the whole package to be perfect.
quote:By the way, nice to see you in a thread, Ms. Ralphie. Hope you don't let it stop here.
Thank you, Stormy. Sadly, I'm rarely around. But a thread pissing and moaning about appearance is nigh irresistable to me.
I miss the 'rack.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I like your nose.
I also like my curly eyelashes - they mean I don't have to use one of those medieval torchure device thingies. I think my feet are cute, but I hate that very few shoes come in my size.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Awww, thanks! ^_^
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: But a thread pissing and moaning about appearance
Winner! Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Man, I am a thread killer. Don't worry I am very critical of my physical appearance, it's just that all of my critisms were erased with the other thread.
Hmmm....
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Naw, it's me that killed the thread with my rampant vanity.
Or maybe no one else feels like talking about their favorite feature.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
I've just honestly never thought about my favorite feature. See, society only wants to keep us negative, lol. I suppose it would be my hair, which is ironic because it is immensely unruly and one big frizz the second I step out into the Florida humidity. But done properly and with care and attention (which I never do) it can actually be very nice with big, beautiful curls. Yeah that felt weird. I think I'll stick to only criticism of myself and flattery for others.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
A little something about favorite features: what a girl might see as very beautiful in herself might not be what guys think as beautiful. And different guys think different things are beautiful in the same girl. Heck, it's even worse (or better ):
I laughed my... well, I laughed when a friend (B) of a friend (A) of mine told A that he thought the girl who was my first real love had a beautiful body, but that her face... oh, man... The problem is: the first time I saw her, I went like: wow, what's with that face ?!? The big eyes somehow don't fit, the overall impression was "wrong". Then I fell in love with her and the same big eyes were now the main attraction, they were "the window to her soul" !
Anyway, if you still feel like listing your favorite features, could we get pictures with them ? Pwetty pwease ? Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Um. I don't have any pictures of me from the knees down. But I am up on foobonic.
[ August 08, 2004, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Hahaha, and all I have of me are recent graduation pictures..and I had the little hat on.
Sidenote: how would I locate this Foobonic I am hearing so much about?
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
bev, which album has your pictures ? I don't remember seeing one...
quote: what a girl might see as very beautiful in herself might not be what guys think as beautiful. And different guys think different things are beautiful in the same girl.
Good. This helps ensure that each of us will be considered beautiful by *someone*. Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I guess my favorite features (besides my youngish skin that I described before) would be my hair, my eyes and my hands.
My hair is fairly thick, with a lot of body and just enough, but not too much natural curl. With a good haircut, it'll do pretty much anything I want it to without a lot of fuss. Of course, I really only found that out when I stopped trying to wear it too long.
My eyes are green, but they change slightly depending on my mood, my clothing and my state of health. They are occasionally blue, and can also be gray.
My hands are slender and graceful with nice nails. Again, this is relatively new, since my children grew up a bit and I got my hands out of the toilet.
Sorry, I don't know how to post pictures on Foobonic. But that's just part of my mystique, dontcha know. Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Thanks Corwin... and Bev, your hat in your wedding photo on Foobonic is positively adorable and I want one just like it! Not to mention the photo itself is one of the nicest looking wedding pictures I've ever seen.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Thanks! I really had my heart set on that hat. The straight skirt matched it perfectly. (There was a detachable train.) I have some other nice wedding pics I should probably get around to posting.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Yes definitely post them. In moments of girlyness, I've thought about what I wanted in my hair/on my head, and never being fond of the average veil, that hat looks perfect. I still want flowers in my hair though..hm... *wanders off to hide so as no one finds out I'm planning my wedding*
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Ooo! Congrats BTW!
I think the reason more girls don't go with hats is that you have to be willing to conceal much of your hair. Since I can never get my hair to behave, I didn't mind.
I really liked doing something at least *slightly* unique and unconventional.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My mother wore a white picture hat like that, and she carried a basket of wildflowers down the aisle. Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Oh gosh! I should have been more clear, I have no plans to get married. I meant planning my future wedding, hehe. Sorry for the confusion.
But, yeah, I would be totally fine with concealing my hair as well lol.
Basket of wildflowers, sounds so beautiful... I think wildflowers would be a lovely choice.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Gotta be careful what you say, Cythera, givin' us ideas like that. Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
hahaha, sorry. Marriage is still such a scary thought for me, I'm *so* not ready. Then again, I'll probably still be saying that when I'm 40. Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Bev - I like your dress. I now know you had 2 kids last time I saw you, I honestly could not remember if it was 2 or 3. Silly me. I could post a picture of me younger - it is the best pic of my eyes - I just don't know how to do it.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Glad you like the dress! I fell in love with it myself. I still have it around here somewhere....
Let's see.... The last time I recall seeing you was at the Olympic torch run along 900 E. Was that the most recent time? We had 2 children then. Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Yup, I am thinking of posting a picture from that night, but I have not decided yet. Plus, I am having trouble with my scanner.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I always wanted to name a little girl Ivy!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Do you remember the gal from our ward named Ivy? That is actually who she is named after! For some reason, I cannot think of her last name at the moment. I haven't stayed in touch with her, so she has no idea I named my child after her. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
We did not name our daughter after her. We just both like the name. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Ok, you did not name our daughter after her, but for me she was the inspiration for the name.
But feel free to name one of your daughters Ivy, I won't mind.
[ August 09, 2004, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That's true.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Somehow I think I'll never tell my daughter that I got the idea for her name from a character on a soap opera. >_<
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I remember her last name, do you want me to email it to you. (I am a wacko freak who has all the ward phone directories from the time we moved in there to the present - sometimes we visit, and they give me a new one )
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Yeah, I would like to remember her last name. If you had any contact info for her, I would gladly accept that too, but perhaps I might even be able to find it with the last name--I know approximately the area that they moved to.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I got the name Ivy from Piers Anthony, so I actually gave it up because I did not want to tell a child I named her after a character in a Xanth novel.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
OK I'm female, but I know I'm missing a substantial part of the "girly" gene. I honestly have never, ever understood the whole planning and dreaming about the wedding from the age of 5 on that girls seem to do. I mean as an adolescent all my friends seemed to have it planned out, and I was sitting there mystified drawing a total blank. I simply couldn't imagine it.
Maybe this is part of the reason I'm not married now. I don't know. I mean now I could see the advantage of having a wedding to get the wedding presents but doing the cost benefit analysis makes me really wonder if the hassle is worth it, especialy given the fact that I would have to deal with far more familial hassle than most.
Is it tied into the appearance thing, that on the wedding day you are the most beautiful in your life or what?
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: I got the name Ivy from Piers Anthony, so I actually gave it up because I did not want to tell a child I named her after a character in a Xanth novel.
Nor would I, S4E, nor would I!
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I don't know, I never planned for a wedding, I did not think I would get married. I just made up kids names. I guess I planned for the wrong part since I can't have kids. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I never really planned for my wedding, but I did plan for being married. From the time I was about five I couldn't wait to get married. I never thought much about the wedding though.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Oh excellent questions, AJ! Hmmm, I haven't been one to be overly sentimental about my wedding, but certainly I was more so than Porter. Way more so. We didn't have brides maids or men or whatever. We didn't have a "line". We had our reception outside so that most of our decorations were the beauties of nature rather than things we spent money on. It was our day, and we wanted it to be a happy celebration of all that marriage means to us.
For the girl, I do think that there is a certain deeper symbolism than for the guy. I have not fully put my finger on what it is though. Something ancient and primal. I do think it has to do with being beautiful. Perhaps for a woman who intends to have children, there is the inner knowledge that having children will change her body and appearance. She will never be quite the same. If she has chosen to "save herself" for her wedding night, there is a symbolism there also. It is as though the bride is inviting all to witness the passing of a major season in her life, one that will effect her more profoundly than it will the man.
But weddings of today do not necessarily have those connotations. Being a female virgin at one's wedding isn't important to society these days, and many women getting married to not really want children.
I am thinking aloud, though. I don't really know.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I am not a girly-girl either. I don't do the make-up thing, I don't dress really feminine. It does help me fit into my husband's family better, since there are so many boys in his family. His sister is not a girly-girl either since she was influenced by having so many brothers.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Like I said, I know I'm wierd. Even though I grew up in a culture that strongly emphasized family, I've never wanted one. I never wanted to be "married." I basically planned my life never including the possiblity that I'd have someone else to love, because they would just get in the way and think I was crazy with the things I wanted to do. The fact I do have someone that loves me and lets me be who I am is still suprising to me.
I don't know if this sort of thing ties into self image to everyone but it definitely does for me. I thought I would never be desirable, because desirable most of the time implies looks. I could look in the mirror and it would tell me that I was as physically attractive as anyone else. The problem was fairly obvious though it took a couple of years to figure it out, and I did doubt my physical attractiveness as a result. To most guys, once I opened my mouth and spoke two sentences, my personality was extremely intimidating to them, and they instantly ruled out "romantic" in the relationship. I could see in their face as it happened.
But even when I was small, I didn't dream about weddings, and fairy tales like most little girls seem to.
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I did not really care what happened with our wedding reception, since the important thing to me was being married. I did want to look pretty in my wedding dress (the dress was a huge disappointment). We did not have bridesmaids or groomsmen, but we did have a line. Since we come from two very practical families, our line was sitting down. There is no need to wear everyone out by standing the whole time. We pulled off our wedding, dress, tux, invitations, rings, decorations, food, plane tickets, everything for less than $1000. We are not only practical, but cheap.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
<=== Thinks AJ is very beautiful from the pictures she has seen.
AJ, I think I know what you mean about opening your mouth and guys being turned off. I always felt that way too. I never was one who's personality men found inviting that way. I was "raised" by my two older brothers and imitated them. So I often come across more masculine than feminine, at least to my own mind.
If I go into "feminine" mode, it is more likely to be while talking to other girls who are feminine, because I tend to mirror the talking style of whomever I am speaking with.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
BannaOJ- That is exactly why I did not think I would get married, I am not pretty. I did not even go on my first date until I was 18, and he kept talking about how wonderful this other girl was all night. My second date was six months later. My third date was 8 months after that, and person is now my husband.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I apparently turn off a lot of people when I speak, especially women. I can't seem to say things in a genteel, round-about way. I am straight-forward and tell it like it is. I got fired from a job because of this.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
We tried to keep our spending on the wedding way down too. Porter tried to talk me out of making him wear a tux, but I wouldn't budge. He looked dang good in the one I picked out! Dark and light greys. Tall men in tails.... Mmmmm mmmm!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
S4E, are you happy with how things turned out for you, then?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Yes, to me being "girly" is a somewhat fun luxury, not a necessity. I mean I have fun with a "Girls day (or night) out" but it is fun exactly because it isn't my norm. I've tried to be "feminine" day in and day out, and I just can't keep it up, because it feels too artificial to me. Even though I know for some people it is totally natural and what they want to be.
I'm not saying that women who look more feminine and spend time on their appearance are vain and artificial, because I have good friends that do, that are anything but that. Yet for myself, it just doesn't quite gel 90% of the time.
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I am glad I got married, because I can not imagine life without my husband. I am glad I got fired because I was in a state of constant stress trying to figure out what I was saying wrong to these people. Example: The final incident that led to my firing. Someone accused me of getting really angry with her and yelling. I was so confused when I was told this because I wasn't angry, and I wasn't yelling, I even have people who will vouch for me that I wasn't yelling. Trying to figure out how to say things was too hard. It still means I am in constant fear of offending someone.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
AJ, I couldn't keep up the image either. It is not "me". I only "make myself up" at most every other day. I do it out of pity for others, mostly.
Fortunately, Porter doesn't like "girly girls". But he does seem to like me. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Banna, I'm with you. I NEVER planned out my wedding, never dreamed about getting married, never played bride, never picked out flowers. Maybe it's the lack of sisters? I don't know. It didn't seem important in the grand scheme of life.
I'm orders of magnitude more girly now than I was as a kid, and having been through the beginning stages of planning two weddings and having paroxysms of panic about everything from the venue to the participants, I've reluctantly concluded that SOMEONE has to think about it if it is ever going to happen. Since I'm not marrying a girl, that probably has to be me.
That's as far as I've gotten. Although I did get my dad to swear on his last visit that it didn't matter how old I was when I got married, he would pay for the wedding. I figured that was a good start.
[ August 09, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
S4E, some people are just waaaaay too sensitive. They find offense everywhere because they are looking for it. It sounds like you weren't doing anything wrong. But a lot of employers are very picky about their people being able to "charm" the customers. They have very high expectations and not everyone is comfortable trying to fulfill them.
I know that sometimes I live in fear of offending others, partly because I'm not entirely socially adept and partly because the idea of offending someone is painful to me.
[ August 09, 2004, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I agree, girls nights out are fun because they are different from the norm. I loved getting a pedicure because I thought it was funny to be so girly. My cousin is trying to turn me into a girly-girl, so I have had all sorts of new and girly experiences. I hate shopping, so I don't really get that bonding experience. Actually, I still like shopping too much for my husband's tastes. I can spend about 30 minutes window shopping, but he has a 5 minute threshhold Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
AJ, I completely relate. Are you my alter ego who I don't realize I use while I sleep? That would explain the strange narcoleptic moments...
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Dude, I can't go shopping with other females. I shop *alone*. (Or with kids if I have to.) And I don't shop for clothes, not much anyway. I do find shopping alone theraputic, though.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: I got the name Ivy from Piers Anthony, so I actually gave it up because I did not want to tell a child I named her after a character in a Xanth novel.
This sort of thinking has caused a lot of arguments between Mary and I. Each time we have a kid, we have a nine month long argument about what to name it.
Repeatedly, I'll come up with a name, and Mary will say "no, that name reminds me of ________".
"Big deal!" I say. "The name might remind you of them right now, but it won't for long. It will just be the name of our child."
But Mary always refuses to budge, and it drives me up the wall.
Our oldest is named Sanford. To me, that name was always associated with the show "Sanford and Son", but it didn't take long for Sanford to just be the name of our son.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
S4E Steve has to force me to buy clothes for myself. I simply don't think to do it. He still has more shoes than I do I think, though we bought a bunch so I'd have the right shoes for special occasions.
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I actually wasn't offending customers. In fact, a lot of people would tell me I gave them the best service they had ever had. I asked them to write letters to my boss, but no one ever did.
The problem was, I was mean to one person once (another employee), I admit it and I know it. But after that, word got around that I was mean, and so everyone interpreted my actions that way. I honestly did not understand the complaints after that one. I wish I had not been mean the first time.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Can't stand shopping with others either, but I agree that when you're shopping alone, because it's something that you do solely for yourself, it is extremely theraputic.
[ August 09, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: from Cythera ]
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I won't buy clothes for myself. I won't, I won't, I won't. That is right, I am 28 years old and my mother still buys my clothes. As you can imagine I dont get very many new clothes. I get 2 pairs of pants and 2 shirts every Christmas, and that is all I need (along with the two pants and two shirts from the year before and so on. I still wear some clothes from when I was a teenager.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
The problem with me shopping alone is I tend to buy lots of books, lots and lots of books. It is like I can't control myself in a book store.
MPH and Bev- I remember when you named him Sanford. I was surprised because the first thing I thought of was also Sanford & Son, but I got used to it after a couple of months.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
glad to know I'm not the only one who wears clothes from 10 years ago Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Well my mother buying me clothes is totally out. She missed the "girly" bus too. I still remember the look on my friend from college's face when she saw my mother get off the plane and realized she was my mother. I believe that day she was wearing light aqua ill fitting cullottes (the image is burned on my brain) with a matching print top (also ill fitting) and puke green sneakers(to describe the amount of clashing going on is impossible) She gets all her clothes as handmedowns from her mother, my grandmother, so they are always about 4 years out of fashion as well. Mom wearing jeans and t-shirts is a vast improvement over her so-called "dressy" wardrobe which generally has the appearance of curtains, tableclothes or burlap sacks.
AJ (It's so bad that I notice, and I'm NOT girly or into appearances myself)
[ August 09, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
*raises hand*
Many of my clothes are *aaaaancient*!
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
As long as Ralphie's pissing and moaning, I'd like to register the fact that I hate my body.
Though if I could change anything, I don't know that I would, except for I'd like to not be such a butterchunkmonkey.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
In my 22 years I've purchased a package of socks and a t-shirt from the juggling festival I went to a few years ago. That's the sum total of clothing purchases. This, of course, leaves me susceptible to the whims of my mother who buys all my clothes for me. And if she, say, decides to burn all my old pants while I'm skiing over the Christmas holidays leaving me with nothing but brand new pants I wear the new pants or I wear nothing.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
My mother dresses better than I do, much to her consternation. She believes in wearing pantyhose or trouser socks at all times. To me that is an only if I have to thing to do. She can't complain about my shoes because they do not make girly shoes in my size, only sneakers.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Bob - My husband likes to say, "I'm ugly and my mother-in-law dresses me funny."
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I may not have gotten the girly girl gene, but I did get the horse-crazy gene. Go figure.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Actually I did get the horse-crazy gene <grin> It kind of got transferred to dogs, but I did a lot of riding when I was younger. But as far as reading books went, I almost always liked the boy and horse stories better than the girl and horse stories.
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I like horses, but I never really had the opportunity to ride one. Now I am afraid I would break a horses back. I know this is silly because I weight the same as a slightly heavy man, but still, I don't want to hurt any horses.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
The bit of romantic that is in me CT, thinks it would be very cool to get married and not tell anyone. Because then it is about us and not what everyone else and their brother thinks.
I actually have a dear friend (though she is much older than me) that did exactly that. Her family was much less traditional than mine to begin with, and she and her significant other had been together for 8 or 9 years before they married. They married because they had decided they wanted a family and strictly to simplify the legal issues involved with children. She didn't realize she hadn't told her family til 15 or 16 years later! (At the time it was deliberate in not telling them but over the years you forget.)
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
You know, I never did read horsie-books or watched horsie-movies. But I did write stories where the main characters were unicorns. (How corny is that?) And I loved drawing them. Someday, if Porter lets me, I intend to own and care for my very own horse.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Ha, that's hilarious. I daydream once in a blue moon of a wedding, but in actuality I am dead set on eloping. Not to Vegas or anything, but like going to Rome and finding a justice of the peace or something in a really small town. Then going back to visit the town every once in a while. That to me is romance at its best.
Edit: I actually think that statement just proved myself to be very girly Oh well.
Beverly, not at all corny. I am constantly making up stories and then drawing them, it is one of my favorite things to do. Unicorns rock. Ever read The Last Unicorn ?
[ August 09, 2004, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: from Cythera ]
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
"how corny is that"
edit: I was quoting bev, but I don't know how to do quotes, sorry it came right after your post
[ August 09, 2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: School4ever ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
That's pretty funny! "My husband... oh you didn't know we were married? Yeah, we got married 20 years ago...." Imagine the reaction!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It sounds romantic, but I've discovered how incredibly hurtful it is to other family members to elope. What you're saying is that they are not important enough to you to be part of your life. If that's true, then I guess go with it, but if you have people who didn't know they were being sent off into the good night, eloping is a fabulous way to burn bridges.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Down below the reply window are a series of grey "buttons". The one that says "quote" pulls up an html code that you can paste a quote into. It makes the nice format you see commonly on this forum. You can also do urls packed into a word or phrase of your choice. Pretty cool.
Edit: If you feel like experimenting, the other side of the forum is slow enough that you could do whatever then erase the message and no one would be the wiser.
[ August 09, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
quote: Down below the reply window are a series of grey "buttons". The one that says "quote" pulls up an html code that you can paste a quote into.
The smilies are so cute I never noticed the grey buttons Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Kat I honestly think it depends on the family as to whether eloping is ok or not. Some families would be more hurt than others.
With mine at this point I think it would be more of a sigh of relief that I'm an *honest woman*
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Amen CT.
The marriage is what is important.
Also, I hate when anyone says period of time was "the best years of my life," or "the best day of my life." I hope to have many more days and many more years, I do not want to think the "best" is behind me.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
I don't know, it actually seems more bizarre to me to have other people present watching us do something so intimate as vowing to share the rest of our lives with only each other. I'd be embarrassed. I definitely would throw a party once we get back from Rome, though, hehe. Totally casual though, none of this dressing up stuff.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
The thing is, Bev, I doubt she ever introduced him as her husband. After being together fo 7 or 8 years, (or even 5 like me) you get used to introducing your significant other without exactly defining the relationship.
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Yay! (Took me awhile to find it too.)
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
True. I was just trying desperately to think of a casual way to "accidentally" mention it. Nothing good came to mind.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
quote: I do not want to think the "best" is behind me.
*shudder*
I definitely agree with that.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
My family was terribly hurt when I got married, I might as well have eloped. I got married in a LDS Temple and they were not allowed. In protest, my grandfather called my husband "George" for the first 5 years we were married. His name is NOT George.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I dunno if I have anything that could be called a "girly-girl" gene or whatever, but I certainly (usually) care about what I wear.
I guess I have a hard time feeling sexy or wearing clothes that are nice because I feel self-conscious. I've gotten a lot better lately, but I'm still not very good.
And I didn't necessarily get the horsey-loving gene, but I do have a healthy respect and awe. And I love kitties.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Wedding sans cousins is fine. Wedding sans children or parents who wanted to be there can really hurt.
What's worse is the selective inviting - some siblings, some children, some parents, but not all. Now that's a crappy idea.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I never was very 'girly' either. Never planned my dream wedding or anything. AAMOF, Ron did almost all our wedidng planning, and Mom helped me pick a dress. Had to give her that, since my sister eloped.
Ron planned the food forthe reception, narrowed the invites down to two designs and let me help decide the final one *snicker* Mom helped me pick out the bridesmaids dresses and so forth. I let her and my sister take care of the pew markers and decorations. Ron and I wanted white roses and calla lillies for the bouquets. Mom wanted the bridesmaids to carry open Bibles with silk flowers and ribons in them. We said "No!" She described them again several times, as she'd seen them in a wedding and liked them. "I'm sure it was lovely, but we want real flowers." "Real flowers would make tyhe Bibles wet." ""Yeah... we're not doing the Bibles. Sorry."
She was actually very gracious and let me pick her dress for the wedding. She narrowed it down to two. One was rather flamboyant, the other very elegant and understated. She asked me which one I liked. I told her she KNEW which one I liked, but she should get what she wanted. She wanted me to pick, since it was MY wedding. I did, and she looked lovely. She gave me that dress a few years ago. Haven't worn it. She's back in ICU.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
We seem to have gotten sidetracked (and I know I helped).
How does this "white wedding" image, effect little girls self-image, and where does it come from? How did it shape us in somewhat rejecting the status quo? It doesn't surprise me on Hatrack that we are non-traditional about this because, hey, we are mostly women that read sci-fi to begin with. I'm not saying that the married people here were rejecting marriage as being important, far from it. I think the fact is they appear to have put the Marriage over the Wedding in import.
So, do you think that the rejection of the traditional "wedding" image, actually helped or hurt the way you view your own body?
How about "Prom" did you reject or accept that image, and how so?
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I went to prom with a girl, we were not lesbians, we just both wanted to go and we did not have dates (she got rejected in a rather cruel way.) We got people talking though Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I didn't go to prom. I went to Paris the week before, and I discovered after that a guy in my ward told his mother he was going to ask me, and his mother told him I was going to be in Paris. I wasn't - I got back that morning. So he asked someone else, and I didn't go.
Of course I scheduled it that way - so I'd have an excuse for why I didn't, but could go if asked. Talk about face-saving plans coming home to haunt you. Not that I though prom would be a perfect night, but I'm all for new experiences, and that would have been one. I'm an idiot - I made the backup plan out of sheer shyness and a lack of self-confidence.
I made up for it later, though.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
For you newbies, I never went to a Prom, since I was homeschooled. I'm not married either, though I've been in a serious relationship for the past 5 years.
I never dated much (like 3 dates total before Steve if you stretch the definition of a date.) Even with Steve I'm hard pressed to remember an actual real "date" I can come up with 3 or 4 maybe, over the 5 years.
AJ
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Prom tickets were way cheaper if you went as a couple than if you went single, this is why we went as a couple.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
BannaOJ, you sound like me with my husband, we only went on about 3 dates, but we spent every single free second together.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Two guys asked me. They were best friends and fighting over me. One was a good friend of mine, the other I didn't know very well (actually he was the stalker). I didn't really like either one THAT WAY. Had a dress. Didn't go. Spent the evening onthe phone with another friend (a boy) who had just been dumped by one of my other best friends.
Didn't go, didn't care. Not a big deal. I hated high school, and most of my best friends were not going. No big deal. I went to a few other people's proms, as a date. Didn't get the prom thing. *shrug*
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
My mother wouldn't have liked it, but my family would have been OK with me eloping. Of course, the fact that they would be OK with it means that I never would need to do it.
My family is *extremely* laid back about a lot of things.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I didn't go to prom. My friends and I had an anti-prom where we went to a fancy restaurant and dressed up. It was this really good Japanese place... Mmmmmmm... Then we went book shopping. It was fun. We took pictures.
I am 19 and have never been on a date. :/ (sadness) I have been asked... But I never got a chance to go out with the guy who asked me because we ate lunch together and I realized that I didn't want to go out with him while we did. Also, neither he nor I drove, so it would have been hard.
I feel unloved...
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
MPH Your family is like DH's family. My family is very uptight.
CT - your family is HUGE. My family is very small, I only have 4 cousins. Most of the cousins I talk about are my husband's.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Ryuko, I did not get my license until I was 21. I know about feeling unloved, I felt the same way. I made a deal with one of my friends that if either of us never got married, we would get married when we turned 30, we had absolutely no feeling for each other in that way. Kind of sad huh?
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Our prom was on a ship, that is why I wanted to go. It was so nice to stand on deck in the fresh air and look at the stars.
Why do parents have to discuss menarche? I was 10 and my mother decided to discuss it with all her friends, and those of her friends who had daughters my age told their daughters. Then their daughters, some of whom did not like me, would come to me and ask me about it.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Did you develop telekinesis and kill all your classmates?
j/k.
at me.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Sometimes they were mighty caustic (in that oh-so polite way), especially when comparing you to their own kids.
Oh my stars, I know what you mean. For the longest time, I had a DREAD of groups of women because of the way they compared their daughters to each other (even my mom did it, and I HATED it). I remember being in a Relief Society meeting and a woman (the mother of the guy who was going to ask me to prom, no less) stood up and talked about how All Women Compete For Men's Attention and Tear Down Each Other To Do It. I wanted to run for the hills - that's the crappiest thing I've ever heard of.
I've encountered it in real life a few times - a few roommates and "friends" who, if there was male around, would run down the other females in the room and claim it was joking. It was not attractive, and it's too bad, because the company of other women can be wonderful and necessary, but the need to kill in self-defense will get in the way.
[ August 09, 2004, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Heh. My grandma and aunt on my dad's side are constantly on her case about raising us wrong... Of course this from my aunt, whose son won't respond to her, but responds to the threat, "Do you want to go sit by your aunty Paula!?" (my mom) and my grandma, who raised my aunt...
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
No, I did not kill them off, for some reason I can't figure out, most people stayed inside. The people smoking pot did have thier own place staked out on the deck, maybe the others did not want to get caught if those people got caught.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I have "The View" on in the background, and they are talking about having two wedding dresses, one for the ceremony and one for the wedding. Man, that would be expensive.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I watched "American Wedding" the continuation of the American Pie series over the weekend. While the situations the characters found themselves in were over the top, at the same time I thought it was far more true to life than most of the movie weddings that have ever happened.
It showed the predicaments of the characters, that happen with any wedding. In a strange way it kind of seemed like the "wedding for the people" in spite of and including the sexual inuendo. I know people will think I'm crazy but the movie actually struck a resonant chord in me about weddings in general.
AJ
I think the character that may have made it the best is the coolest "Uncool Dad" ever that Eugene Levy (I think that's the actor) plays.
[ August 09, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Why do parents have to discuss menarche?
Well, as a parent, I have never discussed menarche (to my knowledge) with anyone other than my daughter.
However, since you are bringing it up, I guess I should feel free to discuss it here!
LOL! No -- I think IvyGirl would kill me....
Farmgirl
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Ack! Female society nastiness! Half of my family (the numerous half) is from Texas, and I swear the debutante crap is the center of female existence for them. I was always the "sweet girl," which meant I had no physical value and they had to say something pleasant about me. All my "smart people" attributes didn't help either.
Here's some helpful advice, though. I was the ugly nerd girl in high school. I never got asked out, and though I had the guts to ask a guy to take me to my senior prom (I really really wanted to go), he stood me up the night of. My first couple years of college were spent in utter self-loathing and paranoia. I'd develop awful crushes that would consume all of time and energy. My sophomore year, a newly returned missionary boy who was a ski bum fit type asked me out and we had a whole day-long date adventure thing and he held my hand and everything. After a couple more casual dates, I think he got intimidated by my constant babbling about everything (he commented while we were watching Jeopardy and I was answering all the questions that shows like this were all about "useless knowledge") and told me he wanted to date a lot of different girls. He was married two months later. I was convinced I was a horrid hag.
It wasn't until a year or so later that I finally got to a point where I could let go of my paranoia and obsession about boys. I stopped getting mad crushes, and I was actually very content and happy and not looking for anyone.
Then... the weird part... I started attracting all kinds of attention. I could go to parties and be my laid-back funnygirl self and be the center of attention. I could have normal conversations with boys in classes. I started dressing a lot more feminine, actually, since I wasn't trying to adopt an image that I thought would appeal to guys (I had tried cowgirl, rock girl, outdoors girl) and I became a lot more of what I think my real self is. I have a totally different look every day.
I've had so many more guys interested in me since I started acting like myself. I spend my time and energy improving my own interests and talents. I found workout options that weren't torturous group sports. I learned to cook. I learned to sew. I write and make art and it's not about desperation and unrequited love. I think my school work is a lot better and more profound since I can give it its required mental energy.
So, the moral is: if I can do it, become mysterious artsy-babe to at least some guys (and to one who matters ), so can you. Especially you, Abby - you've got such a great personality and you are (despite what you may think) totally beautiful. Just because you're surrounded by that weird early college contingent that doesn't know how to appreciate your contributions doesn't mean they're not there. I think you're entirely capable of posessing the feminine mystique Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
As for the 'white wedding' thing, I got into a tiff with my bf last night about it. My daughter is getting married the end of next week, and he made the comment that " most people give more notice when they get married, and most people are engaged for much longer".
My daughter has not been officially engaged for very long, but she has dated this fellow for years and they decided to get married now so that her sisters (who live with me here in Hawaii) can be there. (It's kind of a long story).
I just went off, mostly because I keep being told that "You can't POSSIBLY plan a wedding in less than a year" - from folks all over.
If the most important things are the dress and the caterer and the location and the band, I suppose maybe you can't. But if the important thing is the marriage, it really doesn't take that long at all to plan a wedding.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:You can't POSSIBLY plan a wedding in less than a year
heh- they haven't been to many Mormon weddings, have they? You're considered ancient if you've known the person for a year.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
That was precisely my point Annie. I'm being told how most people do things, like I'm doing it WRONG somehow, when my experience is that MOST PEOPLE have very short engagements and very simple weddings.
Of course if you believe the magazines, most people spend tens of thousands of dollars on weddings too. Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I worked at a florist in Big Sky, Montana, a resort town where people from Ft. Lauderdale get married. It wasn't rare to have a family spend $25,000 on the flowers alone.
Having to see all the chaos that these people go through makes me much more skeptical about the value of a really big extravagant wedding.
The weddings we'd do at the local Lutheran church with a bride's bouquet and some rosebud boutonnieres were always much more pleasant events, and the people much more pleasant to be around.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Early college = TONS OF ANGST. There's been more breakups and angst around me than I had in the entirety of high school. Granted, high school wasn't that much...
Otherwise, meh. I don't think I really try to change myself to be more appealing to guys, I'm just me. But they still ignore me. Ow. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
S4E, my family is the "uptight" one too. Just ask any of the spouses of my siblings! Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
I remember right before I started dating my husband, a girl came to my room and wanted me to set up a date with his roommate, so I called DH, he talked to his roommate and we set up the date. I had so much fun - I had never done anything so junior highish in my life. I think High School/ College angst is funny. But that is because I am past it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
*raises hand*
It's true.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I planned, prepared, and did all of the work for my wedding in seven weeks, including making all of the dresses.
So there, weird people.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Did you sleep?
AJ
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Ryuko: the ones who ignore you are not worthy of you (corny, I know, but still true).
(((Ryuko)))
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Heck, no. I was up until 3 am sewing the last bridesmaid dress the night before, and we got up at six.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Ha, I think at that point I would've let her wear it unfinished over a black t-shirt.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
We considered it. The girl was on the plane to Tucson when they announced that the flight was overbooked and offered free miles to anyone who would give up their seat. My incredibly helpful best friend did so, and took a later flight, (as in days later) which put her getting here the day before my wedding. Wasn't that SWEET?!
I CAN'T MAKE YOUR DRESS IF YOU AREN'T HERE!
[ August 09, 2004, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I hate teenage-ish boys that won't even talk to a girl unless they think she's hot.
Can you tell I'm bitter? Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
Count me in as another woman who never got the "girly-girl" gene. Never planned a wedding, never have cared much about clothes - don't wear dresses unless forced, if I wear make-up two or three times a year it's a lot, rarely played with dolls as a child, and when I did Barbie was definitely not planning her wedding, either. And I most especially never, ever went through the "horse phase". I'm the only female I know IRL who didn't.
Now, that said, I love being a girl. The main thing is, there were too many more interesting things to do besides playing with make-up and hairstyles when I was an adolescent. I've always much preferred reading a good book or doing something that is actually interesting. I remember one time I was stuck in a van for five hours with a group of women who only wanted to talk about babies and weddings. Just about went mad that day. Not, you know, that those are bad topics; I just don't understand how anyone can talk about them for five hours straight. Just me, I guess.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Oh that's sucky, PSI. Glad it worked out though.
Bev, I'm so pleased to see you have joined the "bitter attitude towards teenage boys" club.
<--Member since September 1995, Posts: 17 million
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Been a member for a loooooong time....
But the amusing part is, I had absolutely no interest in them either. If someone didn't find me interesting, that right there makes them a whole lot less interesting to me.
[ August 09, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I'm a member of another club, the boys-wouldn't-leave-her-alone-because-she-developed-a-freakishly-large-chest-at-a-very-early-age-and-girls-therefore-thought-she-was-a-stuck-up-witchy-slut club.
I'm living proof that being on the other end of the spectrum (a girly-girl who always got lots of male attention) can also stink.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Haha, my stream of conscience after reading littlemissattitude's post really amused me, so I thought I'd share:
"Yeah totally...my Barbies divorced the Kens and started these really cool careers that involved sky diving and saving the world...hm, that would make a really interesting thread...'What did you make your Barbies do?'"
Hee Bev, yeah I would lose interest too after the boys told me I was too freaky for them.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
And really, what bugs me about the behavior is that people should be nice to everyone, not just "the hot ones". And if they are, you can't trust that. They are only being nice to get something.
Mrs. M, I have heard others say similar things. I will have to take your word for it, since that is a club I wanted to be a member of most of my life.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Mrs. M: There were a couple of girls I knew that were well developed and got tons of attention from the boys. (In case anyone's confused, I have NEVER been part of this club.) I always felt worse for them than I did for myself, because they couldn't go anywhere without being hounded. One of them was plagued by boys who claimed to be her "friends" but followed her around saying things like "It's kinda nipply in here" and "I think it might get hooter, I mean, hotter." I was so upset for her because it was a humiliation that I couldn't imagine enduring. It was painful to watch her attempt to smile at them and take it in good humor; I think she honestly thought there was nothing she could do. Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
My little sister is devastatingly gorgeous. She's also funny and nice and has friends who are "nerds." Where was she when I was in high school? She has the over-attraction problem. She can't go anywhere and meet new people without attracting a few new boys who are madly in love with her. I do really admire how she handles it, though. She basically doesn't give them the time of day unless they can interact with her on a decent human level. Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Hmm...the extent of my ideas about my hypothetical wedding is the list of silly things I want to do at the rehearsal (and the actual ceremony if I can get away with it.) Things such as..."Mawwage is wot bwings us togethahh today," or marching down the aisle to something other than wedding music. Either that, or I'm going to have a Betazoid wedding. Then I wouldn't have to worry about picking out a dress for me or anyone else.
I don't have the girly gene either. I prefer t-shirts and shorts (or jeans/khakis when it's cold). Skirts feel uncomfortable, and I don't really like wearing dresses. I still don't carry a purse, and I can count the number of times I've worn makeup on one hand. To me, clothes are functional, not decorative, and I choose my wardrobe accordingly.
When I was little, I had no interest in horses and I didn't play with dolls. I don't remember clearly what I spent all my time doing, but my guess is I mostly read books, played outdoors, and built things with legos. As I got older, my interests shifted to just books.
I've sort of had the same problem that others here have had with guys--I was once told by a friend that my guy friends don't view me as someone to potentially date. They view me as competition in other arenas, mostly academics. I was also told by someone else that in general, most women compete for the attention of men, so I guess part of the problem is I'm not actively competing in this area and hence don't get any attention. I'm not interested enough in guys to want to alter myself so that I'll be more attractive, so either the right guy will fall out of the sky at my feet, or I'll just stay single for awhile longer.
Why is it, do you suppose, that a larger portion of the women here lack one or both girly alleles than in the general population?
[ August 09, 2004, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Shigosei ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Oh, also - I heard once that the preteen fascination with horses was a subverted form of dealing with an attraction to masculinity. Supposedly, the horses are a safe outlet for the scary new feelings of being attracted to someone strong and big.
Any thoughts on that?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Thought: Ew.
Sorry. I could probably come up with something a little more mature.
Posted by from Cythera (Member # 6749) on :
Well, theoretically, it fits. But we all know how girls are; once one likes something and it's deemed kinda cool, more and more start to like it.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
If my memory of psychology class is accurate, Freud believed that the interest in horses was actually due to penis envy. What's odd is that it's the girly girls who seem to like horses the most, and the more masculine women are the ones who are accused of having penis envy when they are older and are competing with men in traditionally male fields.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Plus, alot of girls get into horses before puberty.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
I just want to add that my psychology teacher told us that the thought Freud was wrong in most cases, and I'm inclined to agree. My guess on why girls like horses is that girls like animals in general, and horses are cool because you can ride them.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Well in my case at about age 3 or 4 I wanted a pet whale. (I know I've said this before on hatrack). I think I actually tried to convince my parents to build an aquarium in our backyard. I figured if it took up the whole yard it would be big enough for at least a dolphin. But then I started learning more about habitats and realized that it would be a bad idea, even if it was possible, and I realized as I got older it was less and less possible.
So then I turned my attention to my parallel interests of horses and dogs, I think Misty of Chicoteague started it. I think I was only 5 or so when Mom read that to me too. Due to some friends, I was able to ride quite a bit as a kid from age 7 or so on. got my first dog at age 10. I wanted to be a veterinarian, but I was too young and they wouldn't let me be a volunteer assistant because of insurance. And because I started going to college so young, I had to make a decision on classes, and I ended up going the chemistry/physics route rather than the biological route, though I have all the pre-reqs to get into vet school except genetics.
AJ
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Yeah, I'm pretty much in the "Freud is full of crap" camp. I'm just wondering what the link is there, since horses are such a universal pre-teen girl obsession.
Ooh... other interesting question... is it universal? Does anyone who has experience with other cultures know if the horse phenomenon exists outside of the US?
I myself had a bit of a horse phase, but that's because my parents bought me a horse (an old nag, but I thought she was great) when I was 12 and I got to do the whole 4H thing. I would have been equally obsessed with a motorcycle had they bought me one. I had a roommate, though, whose family (5 girls) raises and trains racehorses for a living. She was 22 and her sisters all relatively close to her age, but all they ever discussed was horses. Really. Ever. I went out to dinner with her parents and they talked about horses the entire time and into the evening. I'd watch movies with her and she'd comment on the horses and the riding in the movie. It really baffled me. I'm thinking with her it was just a family environment thing rather than a psychological thing. I don't know...
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:marching down the aisle to something other than wedding music
I can totally see a bride walking down the aisle with the Imperial March playing. She would have to walk just like Vader though.
That would rule.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:since horses are such a universal pre-teen girl obsession.
I'd be careful on the universal. I was never obsessed with horses or anything like it. My best friend in elementary school had a horse and I tried to work up some sympathetic enthusiasm, but it never took. I didn't dislike them, but I didn't feel any more obsessed with horses than I was with dolphins or toasters.
[ August 09, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Not universal as in it happens to everyone, but universal as in it rears its equine head seemingly everywhere. Not just here in hick country.
Is there a better word for that?
<---- always needs to find a better word.
Oh, hey, how about ubiquitous? Is that a better word?
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
Annie:
quote:I write and make art and it's not about desperation and unrequited love.
Ah! But some of the best art is about desperation and unrequited love...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Edited: I don't think discovering that kids like animals will teach us anything we don't already know.
[ August 09, 2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Yes, Godric, but the best artists always die early and tragically and full of spleen. I'm aiming for the "mediocrity keeps you alive" mentality.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
quote:One of them was plagued by boys who claimed to be her "friends" but followed her around saying things like "It's kinda nipply in here" and "I think it might get hooter, I mean, hotter." I was so upset for her because it was a humiliation that I couldn't imagine enduring. It was painful to watch her attempt to smile at them and take it in good humor; I think she honestly thought there was nothing she could do.
Boy, can I relate. It started for me when I was 10 and already a AA. I was pretty good at defending myself, though. It did make me incredibly self-consicous for years. My chest just kept getting bigger and bigger and while other girls were praying for theirs to grow, I was praying for mine to stop.
quote:Mrs. M, I have heard others say similar things. I will have to take your word for it, since that is a club I wanted to be a member of most of my life.
I guess the grass is always greener. I never wanted to go out with the types of guys who wanted to date me because of how I looked, so being in the club never helped me any.
What hurt me was when girls were ugly to me because of how I looked or because guys were interested in me.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I was well endowed from a young age (I was a D cup in 7th grade) and it got me some attention from boys, but never anything positive. It was usually lewd comments yelled at me from passing cars as I walked home from school. Most of the boys who knew me completely ignored me, or called me "Alpo".
On the rare occasion that a boy did show mild interest in me, my best friend always told me it was because of my breasts. Actually, they were usually trying to get homework help.
As for the horse thing, I've never been crazy about horses. My grandfather and my uncle always had horses, but I was never much interested in them. My uncle once tried to get me to go into the pen with him to feed them, and I was too scared. He gave me grief for weeks about it, because he just "knew" that I must love horses, because all girls did.
I remember one girl in junior high school who never seemed to talk about anything but horses. She had a list of all the things she had to have before her parents would let her get a horse (tack etc). She sat in front of me in my math class and nearly every day she had an "update" for me. I couldn't have been less interested, and I can't imagine that she didn't pick up on that.
I always wanted a pet dragon, myself. Posted by HollowEarth (Member # 2586) on :
you know thats going to make it to ooc anyway.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I started out a tomboy and have been gradually feminized. I wear make-up (but not a lot) for work, and a bit less to socialize casually (a bit more to socialize formally). None when I'm being a schlub.
And I loved horses (or, more specifically, books about horses) since long before puberty.
Having done the big-fancy-wedding thing (planned, mind, in about 3 months, and at a decent budget) which didn't quite pay off in the expected long-term-marriage, I hope to do it differently the next time. (If there is one.) I did the lovely dress I will never wear again (although other brides have ); next time I think I'll go with a dressy suit. Something nice, but that I can wear again.
Then again, I hate sewing. So clearly my female genes are somewhat flawed as well. Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
"Butterchunkmonkey" is my new favorite word.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
AJ, I understand about the girly girl thing.
When I was little I never planned weddings. I dreamt about being in the Famous 5 (as George) or at Malory Towers (midnight feasts!) rather than fairy tales. And when I got given Barbies I played games which invaraibly ended with the doll decapitated (I think they were tribal sacrifices) and buried. Often the head and body buried separatly.
(Kinda creepy now I think about it)
Now I'm planning my own wedding. I haven't exactly gone wedding crazy - the wedding is in January. I plan on buying the dress in the December sales. But part of me is getting seduced by the whole thing - I actually had a fight with Tony the other day about 'economising' on my dress. (It's still going to be under $500. ). I didn't expect that to happen and it took me kind of by suprise - but I guess all the attention on me, the pretty shoes and dresses and flowers and music - it all sort of creeps up and then suddenly you're reading bridal magazines.
Maybe I should just elope.
(Maui Babe - I agree, I hate how people start getting fussed about planning time. It is completely possible to plan a wedding in less than a year. )
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Someone (guess it was Annie) who asked for non-U.S. oppinions about the horsie stuff. Xana (my girlfriend) said (I asked her in behalf of the thread) that she was always a tomboy (even today she almost always use jeans, never liked barbies, liked to run around and climb trees), and that she liked animals a lot, since early age. She always wanted to ride horses, but never could. Then, she asked for a cat, and had cats her whole life.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: penis envy
That's a good one Mr. Freud! The man so obsessed with fallics that he thought the rest of us were as well.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
I was never one of "the girls that got asked out." I was small for my age, wore glasses and had more "jeopardy knowledge" than the law allowed. Oh, and I didn't want to be the princess who was rescued by the brave (ack) knight. I wanted to be the one that got to wield the sword and kick butt. I think that goes back to my being small.
What I figured out, eventually, after feeling all the unattractive feelings that girls that aren't asked out feel, is that I am as beautiful, powerful and amazing as I choose to be. Once I figured that out, I was able to be confident enough to attract men.
I've also noticed that on the days I feel like a "goddess" I get more attention than on days I feel and act like a mere mortal. It's all attitude. I don't always feel like a goddess, and that's ok. It's enough sometimes to know that the goddess, warrior, and (ewwww) even the girly-girl is inside me.
Oh, and I was never a big horse girl. I loved cats and still do.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
On horses: I don't think I would have gotten into them if it hadn't been for one of my close friends being horse-crazy. I wasn't aware of it being a "girl thing" at the time though.
Horses are beautiful, strikingly so. As are cats. I say this as an artist who has always felt particularly interested in drawing animals. What other creature is so shapely, has a long flowing mane, and you can join with it, partake of it's power and grace, moving together as one? What's not to like?
And, yeah, I can see it being a sex/masculine symbol.
[ August 09, 2004, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
I think its not so much a sex/masculine thing as it is more of a sensuality thing. The thing that is striking with this conversation is that we all focus on the way the horse (or cat) moves it's body, how it has a mane and the "poetry" of the animal.
Pre-teen girls are drawn to things that are sensual because, maybe, they aren't sure how to respond to the sexual stuff that's going on inside their heads at the time. Maybe the horse/cat thing is a building block to later things.
Of course, I'm an English teacher, not a psychologist...go figure.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Jess does that explain attraction to horses at age 5? I mean my obsession with them started even before I could legitimately be called "pre-teen" more like "pre-school" Where does that leave me other than a weirdo?
AJ
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:Oh, also - I heard once that the preteen fascination with horses was a subverted form of dealing with an attraction to masculinity. Supposedly, the horses are a safe outlet for the scary new feelings of being attracted to someone strong and big.
Any thoughts on that?
Explains a lot. I never had any "scary feelings" around being attracted to "someone strong and big". Was always quite comfortable with that idea. Guess I just didn't need the horses.
But, I do have to say that I'm pretty glad I never was into the horse thing. If I had been, I might have been tempted to go along when a friend of mine in junior high kept inviting me to go horseback riding with her. Turned out the place she was going riding was the Spahn Ranch, and it was Charlie Manson's "girls" who were running the operation at the time. I'm really glad I didn't go with her.
Edit: to add that the whole "penis envy" theory cracks me up.
[ August 10, 2004, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: littlemissattitude ]
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
I'd lay good money down that the term 'penis envy' was invented so people could say the word 'penis' in polite society.
I'm actually waiting for 'Beefy McManstick Envy' to start sweeping the nation. My dinner table repertoire will really take off, then!
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Heh, heh. Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
I think a five year old can have a sensual response to something. At that age maybe sensual can be more connected to what a child thinks is beautiful or powerful than the sex thing. So, it's possible that you're not a weirdo, BannaOj.
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Yeah that felt weird. I think I'll stick to only criticism of myself and flattery for others.
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But I am up on foobonic.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
That's pretty funny! "My husband... oh you didn't know we were married? Yeah, we got married 20 years ago...." Imagine the reaction!
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LOL! No -- I think IvyGirl would kill me....