We're looking at getting a new dog, and we've narrowed it down to these two breeds. We probably won't be getting the dog for awhile since we're still kind of reeling from Licorice's death, but it took us several months of searching before we found him. (we're picky!) Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about either of these breeds? We're looking for a dog that's great with kids, highly intelligent, and likes to play. We know we can't replace Licorice, though I wish we could, but we're dog lovers.
Also, we went to the local humane society today to donate the remainder of Licorice's food and treats. I start volunteering there tomorrow! They are a no-kill shelter and incredibly devoted to finding great homes for animals.
space opera
[ August 11, 2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Retriever. Definitely.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
If you're looking for a smart animal that pretty much rules out beagles. They aren't anything like Schulz would have you believe.
Posted by zip (Member # 4710) on :
My little girl shana (90 lbs) is a yellow lab and couldn't have a better disposition. Interestingly she really really hates beagles, but other then that is usually really easy going. My sister has a bichon/maltese (about 9 lbs) and they play together all the time and she is really gentle with him. Guess that is just a long way of saying i really like the retrievers i have known. Best bet though is probably going for personality rather then breed. Since you are working in a shelter you can get all the inside info on what the dog is like, i would just go for the nicest one you can find.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
What are you looking for in a dog? And specifically what kind of "retriever" are you thinking of? Are you looking at mixes or purebreds?
In any of the retriever breeds getting from a reputable breeder is a MUST because otherwise you can end up with a dog with bad hip and pay 5-6K for hip surgery just so the animal can walk. Not a good scenario, and I've seen it repeated too many times. It is better pay the $1000 it costs to get a puppy from a good breeder to save yourself the multiple thousands later on with the health problems.
In general Golden retrievers are more laid back than Laboradors. Labs often have a 2 year spazz puppyhood before they turn into normal mellow dogs. Goldens may or may not have brains of their own, but that is good with families with kids because they are more likely to put up with kid-mauling.
(There are also Flat-coated, Chesapeake Bay, and Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers, but i'm assuming when you said "Retriever" you meant Lab or Golden)
Beagles aren't bad dogs, they just have very different personalities from your "retriever". They are more independent and aren't nearly as people oriented. Their attitude is more "what can you do for me today?" than "what can I do for you?" That having been said, I've heard they are fairly good with romping with kids as long as you have a fenced yard. If your yard isn't secure they have a penchant for roaming. (I know your last dog got hit by a car, and I don't know how it got loose but if this is a problem, definitely NOT a beagle.)
If you are rescuing a dog from the pound, I would just say judge the personality as it is. Realize that you DON'T have any guarantees on health, temperment etc. Hopefully you will get lucky but be prepared to have issues come up that you weren't expecting.
AJ
[ August 10, 2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
Don't get a beagle, and don't get a puppy.
Beagles belong to the cat family...they are aloof, independent, sneaky, and defiant, and they seem to have brains the size of a pea. Ours is not housebroken unless she wants to be that day, runs off chasing rabbits all day and heads the other direction when you call her, even if you have a cookie. Ok, she is cute, but that's all.
Posted by Gryphonesse (Member # 6651) on :
go to the SPCA or Humane Society and ADOPT a dog that needs a home... Mutts live longer, stay healthier and are smarter overall than purebreds. Why support the puppy mills, inbreeding and inhumane care of "papered" dogs? There are *plenty* of animals already in need of a good home and they won't cost you $1K to buy and an arm and a leg to keep healthy.
Yes, I am biased. My Sweetpea is a mutt, and every cat I've ever had my entire life has been rescued from a shelter.
My two cents...
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Ouch, someone sounds bitter.
I'll contest those statements about pure breeds later, but not while I'm working.
I'd vote for retriever or lab. Both have hyperactive (field dogs) and calm (pets) variations. I'd like to recommend an alternative to pounds if you do decide to select a particular breed. Seek out the rescue group for retrievers or beagles, and contact them. They rescue dogs from kill shelters, place them in foster homes, and then adopt them out after they think they're acclimated and have an evaluation on the general type of dog they are. You'll have better luck learning about how they interact with kids, in public, with other pets, and so on if you go through a rescue group as opposed to the pound. I know that mixed breeds have similar groups, but I don't know what they are called.
I'll wander back later I suppose.
Feyd Baron, DoC
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Labrador -- above those two other choices. But if you are set on one of them, my personal advice is the retriever. Beagles can be slightly more unpredictable with kids. (but there are wonderful beagles out there too!)
FG p.s. - I think of "labs" as being the short-haired version, and "retrievers" as the longer-haired ones
[ August 10, 2004, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
So I personally would love a retriever although I'd really love a lab. I just like really big dogs though.
However, I feel the need to say something positive after reading what everyone's written about Beagles. My uncle has had several beagles that he has loved. They have been trained to be good hunting dogs and I've seen them playing with my cousins and seeming to have a good time.
Size is probably someting else to consider. If you have a house that can't handle a big dog then a beagle woudl be a better option. They also can't knock someone down by jumping on them.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Ooooo.. Hardly-veiled cat insult.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Adding to the consensus, I had a beagle when I was younger, and she was a horrible house dog. We tried making her an outside dog, but she would howl at every car to the point that neighbors complained. She scratched up our doors and chewed up our sneakers. We ended up giving her away after my younger sister was born. Beagles might be good for the country, but if you live in any sort of populated area, I suggest another breed.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I didn't notice before, but I'm having a hard time picturing a Beagle as an animal outside of a lab.
That's really depressing.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Oh yes -- that's a good point I didn't mention -- Beagles are MUCH more vocal. So if you neighbors don't like that.....
FG
Posted by NdRa (Member # 2295) on :
Get a half beagle half retriever.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Just to clarify - because "retriever, labrador, and labrador retriever" can be confusing:
[ August 10, 2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Awww, no one likes beagles, huh?
We are definately looking at getting a puppy. We brought Licorice home at the age of 8 weeks. We bought him from a reputable breeder, saw both his mom and dad, and had a chance to totally shape his personality. I had always heard before that fox terriers were hyper. Licorice was very playful with the kids and soooo gentle with them. We enjoyed the puppy experience and want to do it again. Perhaps at some point we will get an older dog as well, but right now we're about the puppies.
Size isn't a concern. We have a huge fenced-in yard (Licorice slipped out the front door) and actually are going to look at a 7-acre property tonight. I have to admit that I'm kind of worried about adopting even a puppy from the shelter. I know they need homes, but I'm concerned about not having any idea about health, temperment, etc. Any more thoughts on any of this would be appreciated.
space opera
edit: I did mean golden for retriever. I also won't get a chance to see very many dogs at the shelter. Most of them stay with foster families in surrounding areas, since the shelter only has room for 3 dogs at a time.
[ August 10, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
<<<Don't get a beagle, and don't get a puppy.
Beagles belong to the cat family...they are aloof, independent, sneaky, and defiant, and they seem to have brains the size of a pea. Ours is not housebroken unless she wants to be that day, runs off chasing rabbits all day and heads the other direction when you call her, even if you have a cookie. Ok, she is cute, but that's all.>>>
Ok.If a Beagle was not the dog for you then you should have researched more, considering that most of the traits you objected to are readily known after 5 minutes of research. Do your dog a favor and find a Beagle rescue in your area if you really dislike her so much. Every animal deserves a loving home and while you might think you are your antipathy vibrates off the screen.
To The Original Poster:
Beagles can be great pets but it is important to know that, being scent hounds, they tend to follow their noses. So ID tags and maybe a microchip are more than advisable. They are prone to ear infections because of the droopy ears that trap moisture, yeast, and bacteria. They are not the most obedient breed but obedience is not what they were bred for.
Retrievers, it depends on what kind. Labs are good but tend to have a long puppyhood in terms of behavior (2-3 years they begin to mellow out). Goldens tend to be a little more easy going and easier to train.
Depending on how much grooming you want to do, if you are looking for a family dog, a Collie might be a good choice.
Please don't rule out an animal shelter - 1 out of 4 dogs in shelters are purebred. Also for every popular breed of dog there are people that rescue them (foster them until a permanent home is available) You can call your local shelter for rescue info or google it ____ rescue and your state.
The propensity to greater health of a mixed breed dog is called hybrid vigor and relates to the increased gene pool but tends to be related to first generation mixed breed. But if you get a mix and the breeds in the dog are pretty clear you have a good chance of predicting temperament.
LOL, by the way - I'm Michelle and worked at one of the busiest animal shelters in the country for 4 years. The shelter featured on Animal Cops, Detroit.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'd be pretty reluctant to get a puppy at all. I've always gotten full grown dogs, either from the pound or as strays, and with them you can judge their personality pretty accurately. I've have wonderful mutts and wonderful pure-breds both. It all depends on the individual dog, in my experience.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Welcome Michelle! and thanks for your input to the thread..
I'm a rescue for Great Pyrenees (although currently I don't have any other than the one I own)....
Don't be too hard on Dead Horse. I don't think she was saying she doesn't like her dog.... just pointing out things to consider.
Farmgirl
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
quote: Why support the puppy mills, inbreeding and inhumane care of "papered" dogs? There are *plenty* of animals already in need of a good home and they won't cost you $1K to buy and an arm and a leg to keep healthy.
The whole point of spending more to begin with, is so you don't have to spend an arm and a leg later on. I don't know for sure what the going rate from reputable for Labs or Golden is, some breeds are different than others. I would almost never charge that much for a Cardigan Corgi. But what that $1K includs is extensive genetic testing for the parents, especially hips and eyes, to insure that their offspring ARE healthy and that they STAY that way.
If you get a purebred dog from a reputable breeder you are supporting the production of quality dogs in home environments rather than puppy mills.
Of course puppy mills stay in business because most people view their pets as commodities and as a result go out and get the first one that catches their eye at a pet shop and they want instant gratification, rather than putting the time and thought a responsible person like Space Opera is putting into her search for her next dog.
Most reputable dog breeders will never ever make a profit on their dogs. They spend so much more in the health checks and showing in breed, obedience, or field trials, than they ever get back from the puppies, it is rediculous. I could estimate how much I've spent on my Cardigan Corgis before considering breeding a litter (and I still haven't) and it would curl your toes. Why do I do it, because it is something I love to do. Dogs are a passionate hobby. But I would probably have to breed 5-10 litters per year in order to make up the amount of money I put in, and if I breed 10 litters in the next 15 years I will be very surprised.
/end rant
AJ
And what Michelle said. She's totally right about rescuing. My only reccomendation would be to make sure you get the dog into a good obedience program right away so you can work through any issues that might be there.
[ August 10, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I've been looking toward getting a beagle for a while now. I live in the city, and while I see folks walking them all the time, I don't feel right until I get a yard. I grew up with a lab/border collie runt mutt, and my parents have a border collie now.
Beagles are very stubborn. They can learn, and they are reasonably bright for a dog, as a breed, but they require extra work. The have a pack mentality stronger than many breeds, if trained well, due to their original use as fox hunters. They do follow their nose, so if they aren't well secured (they can jump higher than you think, not unlike Jack Russell teriers) they will often escape to follow a nice scent.
All the beagles I have seen here in Boston though seem very well behaved (no tugging on the leash, obedient), so if you prefer beagles, but are afraid of their behavior, it isn't helpless
There's an online beagle rescue site (www.brew.org I think) that services the NE, mid-atlantic and midwest. Check them out.
-Bok
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
Much depends on the shelter but often there is a health plan - where any health issues within a certain period are covered. Also a lot of shelters give you 2 free months of insurance through the ShelterCare program.
Most shelters also assess the animals carefully and anything other than a very young puppy is usually put through temperament testing. Also if the shelter knows that breeds are in the mix you can get a really good idea of temperament when combined with the testing done and what you observe that day.
I swear to you that the majority of dogs in shelter are there through no fault of their own. They are there because having a pet was inconvenient, or because nobody every got that a pets is an investment of time, patience, and money. Or because nobody got Mom spayed and nature took it's course.
I can tell you about countless success stories. Some of them live with me now. Like my Paddington, who passed away a couple years ago, but was a perfect gentleman always.
Also you CAN find a purebred at a shelter. The day I got hired in at the shelter I fostered a Sheltie puppy with a broken leg. I also fostered a Pomeranian puppy. And saw a lot of other purebred puppies. It takes real PATIENCE to find a purebred puppy because people are going to be trying to make a buck over that dog but they exist! And purebred older puppies and adults are out there, too.
I cannot believe I did not mention this. It is not letting me insert a website but there is a national registry where shelters list the animals they have and you can search your area. Email me and I will get that to you. Let me try again: Petfinder Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
<<I'd be pretty reluctant to get a puppy at all. I've always gotten full grown dogs, either from the pound or as strays, and with them you can judge their personality pretty accurately. I've have wonderful mutts and wonderful pure-breds both. It all depends on the individual dog, in my experience>>
There is nothing wrong with getting an adult. The last puppy I got turned 10 years old in May. They have all been adults since then.
Puppies take patience but there is also something rewarding about building that bond right away and molding them into a well-ebahved adult.
Very much an individual choice.
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
Farmgirl: I see what you are saying and I do apologize if it looked like I was beating A Dead Horse. It is just that all too often I have seen animals suffer because people blame the dogs for traits that are common to their breed. It's not the Beagles fault that it acts like a Beagle. It was up to the humans to make an informed decision.
Also cats did not come off at all well in the description either.
But I apologize for lack of diplomacy.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, sure, I wouldn't condemn anybody for getting a puppy or anything--it just isn't for me. It seemed like only puppies were being considered, and I wanted to suggest that one could go with adult dogs too.
One of my favorites (although really, when I think about each dog that I've had over the years, they're pretty much each my favorite, if you know what I mean) was a white german shepherd purebred that I got from the pound when he was about two. He died years ago, now, and I still actively miss him. Definitely the most intelligent dog I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, and one of the kindest and most gentle as well. He had a real air of wisdom about him too, somehow.
I'm glad that I don't have the option of resurrecting one of my dogs; I really don't know who I'd pick. Each of them has been so fantastic in their own ways.
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
Agree with AJ. Support reputable breeders if getting a purebred. $1000 from someone that knows their breed, understands genetics, and spares no costs to do genetic test in a bargain. That same price from a pet store is a RIP OFF. Pet stores get those puppies for very little and then raise the prices - and the puppies are not from healthy parents for the most part.
You can go into a pet store and have it be clean but these dogs come from utter hell in the worst case scenario and neglect in the best case. The puppies are the lucky ones - they have a chance. What about the female dogs that are bred repeatedly and treated like equipment?
You do not necessarily <sp> get what you pay for so do research.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
<grin> Michelle my dogs are at www.corgipages.com LowRyder is my Kennel name even though I haven't bred anything. Kingsbury is where one of my dogs comes from. AJ
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Noemon -- I once had a white German Shepherd. I would probably never have one again.
Not that he was a bad dog -- he was a wonderful, intelligent dog (as you say of yours) but we have always been a multiple-dog family, and he definately was the personality for an only-one-dog family. He just didn't believe in sharing anything at any time.
Luckily, we found him a wonderful new home with a couple, where he was an ONLY dog, and he did beautifully.
Farmgirl
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
Currently I have 3 Shelties and a Greyhound. The dog I mentioned earlier, Paddington, was a Sheltie also.
I got him as a senior and was older than the shelter would normally consider for adoption. I took him home and it was one of the best decisions ever. He just was this amazingly mellow, centered, good natured dogs. We said he was really a Bassett Hound that dressed up as a Sheltie for Halloween and the zipper got stuck.
Of the current dogs there is Riley. Had him since he was a puppy and he is my heart. I cannot believe how much I love him. He is 10.
There is Cindy. She is 15 and slowing down. Rescued her when she was 6 and 1/2.
There is Grannie/Zelda. Got her from shelter as a stray. Seemed ancient so I thought I would give her a last happy couple months. 8 months later she is this insane, nutjob that we found out has "perfect blood" and appears to be going nowhere soon! She is our tiniest dog but has the biggest attitude - typical.
Then there is Rhiannon. Our 4 year old Greyhound. She likes to collect things. Shoes mostly but last night she was carrying around a glade candle in it's holder. Drop her in a Payless and she would pass out from the joy.
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
I love Corgis! We had a Corgi/Sheltie mix at the shelter that her new owner named Fergie. Just loved her. Poppy has the best face.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Poppy is a riot in person. Her personality is the ultimate performance dog. She is an agility home now and will be doing that now that her mothering stint is over. I was fighting for Jacque to let me have her to do obedience but I think she will be a better agility dog.
AJ
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Really FarmGirl? That's interesting--mine is the only white German Shepherd I've ever known, so I can't generalize about the breed, but mine wasn't possessive of his people at all. He shared us with neighborhood dogs who may as well have been our dogs, for the time that they spent with us, as well as quite a few cats, and never had a problem with them at all.
When we first got him, he's been a stray in the country for about 9 months before wandering into town and being picked up by the pound (we found this out because we later bumped into someone who knew him from his previous life as an abused dog), and had survived on whatever he could catch--and he could catch pretty much anything he put his mind to catching. He definitely saw cats as a good source of food. I discovered that if I picked up an animal and held it, and let him smell in in my arms, he could consider that animal to be off limits as prey. A number of times, I saw him start to take off after I cat that I'd marked as off limits (as I did with every cat that would let me hold it long enough), catch it's scent, and then wheel away from it.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I also vote for the golden retriever. They are very good dogs for kids...and put up with a lot. In addition to a great temperament, I have found them to be easier to train than other dogs (German Shepards are good in that aspect as well...but shepards can be territorial).
Beagles are too vocal in my opinion, and they don't make very good family dogs, they are better for people who don't like to play with the dogs.
I would get them as a puppy so you can bond with them at a very young age. Going to a reputable breeder is a must. Otherwise you risk getting a dog that is inbred, and will have health problems later in life (particularly with hips and other joints). Ask people who live in your area about their experiences with a particular breeder.
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
We have two awesome dogs. The older is a beautiful 85 lb. purebred chocolate lab from good stock. The younger is a 50 lb. black lab/chow mix we got from the pound when she was about a year old. (The mix, like Lab mixes in general, seems to have mostly Lab appearance, intelligence, and personality, and is EXTREMELY affectionate [even with strangers], but she also has some chow "guarding" instincts--she prefers to sit in the driveway or on the lawn where she can watch everything that goes on in the neighborhood. She also "waits up" until everyone is home, even if they get home at 3 am.) They are both well-behaved and love each other and us dearly. So, we have had positive experiences with both purebreds and mixed breeds.
Also, an earlier poster's suggestion of a lab/beagle cross might be worthwhile. Our local hardware store owner has one (it looks like a SMALL black lab), which he brings to work. The dog naps under the counter, but he will call her out to say hello if you want. She is a sweetie.
Ok, I think I've read enough on here and other places to realize that a beagle wouldn't be the best fit for our family. We tend to like dogs that want to be involved constantly. That said, I appreciate all the wonderful insights so far! We played with a lab today while we were at the shelter (just for fun), which was the first time I'd ever been around one. The research I've seen says they're great with kids and pretty darn smart, much like retrievers. One question though - do they have as many potential health probs. as retrievers? (i.e. hip probs.) I'm thinking we might want to find one from the shelter. In this case, would a mix be best?
space opera
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote:Ok, I think I've read enough on here and other places to realize that a beagle wouldn't be the best fit for our family. We tend to like dogs that want to be involved constantly. That said, I appreciate all the wonderful insights so far! We played with a lab today while we were at the shelter (just for fun), which was the first time I'd ever been around one. The research I've seen says they're great with kids and pretty darn smart, much like retrievers. One question though - do they have as many potential health probs. as retrievers? (i.e. hip probs.) I'm thinking we might want to find one from the shelter. In this case, would a mix be best?
space opera
Labs are retrievers. Are you asking about Labrador Retrivers vs Goldens Retrievers? It really depends on the gentic background of the dogs. Most purebred, bigger dogs have a tendency to problem hips. Not enough to panic about though.
Keep the weight of whatever dog you get in a healthy range. Most dogs are obese. Really. To the point that most people do not even know a healthy weight and that is strain on hips.
A lab or a lab mix as well as a golden or golden mix could be a great dog and they are breeds that tend to be great family pets. With any dog - but Labs a little more so - obedience is important if they are to be around kids. Labs tend to be big and goofy with a zest for life - untrained you might end up being pulled down the street.
A shelter is a great idea whether you get a mix or a purebred. Just ask a lot of questions and make sure that the dog does well around kids. If you do not want to bring your own kids - comandeer someone elses for a minute! Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Ooops - I guess I was asking about labs versus goldens. Thanks for the info. We like goofy dogs, so it sounds like either one of these breeds might be a good fit.
I have been feeling slightly guilty, though. Licorice hasn't even been gone a week and already I'm doing research on the next dog. I just miss him SO much! I've barely slept since he died. I hate coming home and knowing that he isn't going to be there. And I hate the emptiness of the house and yard without him. He was so special and unique, and I know that he can't be replaced. I just always received a lot of comfort from him, and I really miss that companionship.
space opera
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Please please, for the love of God and less confusion all around refer to Laborador Retrievers as "Labs" and Golden Retrievers as "Goldens" not as "Retrievers". The word "Retriever" is extremely ambiguous since it refers to the original task of the breed, and both breeds had the same task. It is driving this dog person crazy with its usage on this thread.
Labs are NEVER called "Golden Labs" They are YELLOW Labs, (and also come in Black and Chocolate)
Golden Retrievers can vary on the color spectrum from white-butterscotch to red-gold but are Never black or Chocolate.
Conformation they are structurally different. Labs have much burlier bodies and broader head, while Goldens have narrower heads and generally a slender, but still substantial build overall.
Goldens also have longer hair though the length can vary. It can be prone to matting and regular brushing is slightly more important.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Sorry for being snarky above. I should go to bed, I'm becoming ill-tempered and I'm not a sea bass.
You know James Herriot said that the best way to recover from losing a pet is to get another. Having another being to love can actually help with the grieving process. It doesn't mean that you loved the previous animal any less, but having a new animal to love keeps your soul soft and tender, rather than hardening and stagnating.
In personal experience I never fully worked through my grief over losing Splash until I got Jake my next dog several years later. (I was in college and I couldn't get another dog right away.)
AJ
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I didn't think you were snarky. I'm glad you corrected me!
What you've said makes me feel better. Besides just missing Licorice for the wonderful dog that he was, I miss having a dog to love. I just miss that "other" presence in my life. It's been an extremely rough time; I don't remember even being this upset as a child when we lost dogs. I'm going to try to put the guilt aside and focus on the fact that the reason I'm thinking of another dog is because Licorice was so wonderful that he showed me that my life feels lonely without a pet to love.
space opera
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I have had three dogs and two were from the pound.
One was a Collie/Shepard mix, one was a Brittney/Springer Spaniel mix, and the current one is a Yellow Lab/Rotti mix. I prefer female dogs as they have great temperaments once you get them spayed, and are better with kids...IMO, of course.
I am a HUGE fan of dogs, and I really like the rescue group idea. I have a friend who runs a 3 season shelter around here (or he did a few years ago) and he had some really great dogs there. They wouldn't keep any dangerous dogs, and if there was a problem they were honest about it. Adopting a young dog from one of those groups is a wonderful idea, and it often saves the dogs life in the bargain.
I strongly advise anyone who has a lot of room to go with either a Golden Retriever or a Lab; they are both wonderful breeds, and perfect for families that like active dogs. If you want an active dog but you want one a little smaller, say 50 lbs or so, look into mixes that have part Lab or Golden and part Brittney or Springer Spaniels...they are a bit smaller on average, but still are extremely active and fun.
I would stay away from what they call "single-owner" breeds such as Dalmatians or German Shepard's and Chows. Rotti's as well...they are all great dogs, but they tend to be focused on a single owner who is their "pack leader", and they have dominance issues with others. They are great in a mix with a more family oriented dog such as a Lab or Golden....I love my Penney, all 98 lbs of her, so mixes are great if you aren't planning to get all caught up in the show/breeders scene.
My dog is a huge kid inside, but her age is showing. Larger breeds don't age as well as medium breeds, on average, so keep that in mind as well. Penney probably only has a year or two left, and she is only 11...which is a fairly healthy age for a big dog like she is.
I think that as long as you get a Lab, Golden, or a mix with one (or both) of those breeds, you will be very happy with the dog.
God knows it will be well loved.
Kwea
[ August 11, 2004, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote:I have been feeling slightly guilty, though. Licorice hasn't even been gone a week and already I'm doing research on the next dog. I just miss him SO much! I've barely slept since he died. I hate coming home and knowing that he isn't going to be there. And I hate the emptiness of the house and yard without him. He was so special and unique, and I know that he can't be replaced. I just always received a lot of comfort from him, and I really miss that companionship.
It is normal and healthy to go through a grieving process. It is up to you or not whether you are ready yet and neither waiting nor getting one right away makes you a bad pet owner.
I had people come into the shelter to have their dog go to sleep, sob in each other's arms, and then ask to see the adoptable dogs. To me that is a tribute to the place that animal had in their lives - that they cannot imagine not having a dog.
Some people do need to wait. They need to feel the grief. That's ok too.
Every animal shelter is different but I am going to be honest with you. You need to go into the shelter willing to be honest about what happened to Licorice and what you will do to be extra careful in the future. You seem responsible and I would adopt to you in a second but most shelters do look at past pet history and there is a chance that they will have a concern about a repeat. Most shelters will understand that accidents happen and I hope that this is the perspective of the shelter that you go to.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*Adds a plug for Brittanys and Springers.
They can be a bit high energy but generally you get most of the lab-golden package in a slightly smaller dog, that isn't quite as prone to structural problems.
As for cocker spaniels, people are going to shoot me for this but I can't stand the American Cocker spaniel. There are now two separate breeds based on coutry of origin and both are accepted by the AKC. I would take the English Cocker over the American Cocker any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
AJ
(Yeah Michelle I've been concerned about that too, since a good shelter does look at past history and demise of previous pets. But all you can do is be honest at the same time. A preventative strategy would definitely be a good thing to outline ahead of time.)
[ August 11, 2004, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
Either Labs or Golden retreivers are good with kids. I don't think they are any different on the health issues. You just have to be careful to get a good breeder who is careful about not inbreeding.
Labs do tend to chew more has puppies. They have 2 years of being a puppy...and those can by trying years. Golden Retrievers tend to be a bit more mellow and they don't chew as much. Of course with both breeds, behavior can differ from dog to dog...these are just general guidelines.
Overall even as they get older I have found Labs to be more energetic...and Golden retrievers to be more calm.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
space,
I've heard those sheep-herder doglets are super intelligent but need lots to do and lots of space.
fallow
PS. ignore the "beagle-bashers". beagles have a sweet friendly temperment. good with kids. they just have a tendency to vocalize a lot and stick their noses into anything remotely interesting/edible.
[ August 11, 2004, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: fallow ]
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote:PS. ignore the "beagle-bashers". beagles have a sweet friendly temperment. good with kids. they just have a tendency to vocalize a lot and stick their noses into anything remotely interesting/edible.
Thank you! I personally love Beagles - although they are not right for everyone. I love stroking a Beagle's ears (and have an addiction to said activity) and have seen a few as therapy dogs. I like the bark too. I think people could do a lot worse as a family pet as long as they read up on the breed, have a secure yard, and keep tags on him/her.
You could put the same dog in two homes and in one it will be the dream dog and in the other it will be considered the dog from hell. That is why people need to be educated in their decisions and stop blaming the dog for really what amounts to being in the wrong home.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Given that one "escape" already happened though I'm not sure that the beagle is the right choice in this instance.
I'm not anti-beagle by any means, don't get me wrong. But my first dog was a high-energy Australian Shepherd, that was a wonderful dog. However the amount of resources it took to keep her exercised and entertained so she wasn't destructive were absolutely huge.
I personally love herding breeds, but I switched to Cardigan Corgis for a bunch of reasons, one of the biggest being that they fit in far better with my lifestyle.
AJ
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
AJ - You do have a point there about a Beagle not being right in this case. But like the Lorax speaks for the trees I had to put in a good word for the Beagles.
I especially did not understand the perception that they are aloof because the only ones that struck me as aloof were the ones that were kept solely as hunting dogs. One of my favorite Beagles of all times was turned in by an old man because the dog did not hunt. Asked the guy the dogs name and he looked at me like I was insane - dogs have names? I mean, he did not name his hunting rifle either, I am sure.
The little thing was so shy and scared so I named him Bashful. He loved crawling into laps and hiding his face and once he knew you were not going to hurt him he loved you.
I have Shelties. Other people think they are neurotic and never shut-up. For the record it took me 4 tries to get a neurotic, yappy one. But there is no perfect breed for everyone.
I have said in this thread that labs are often a good choice for families - and I mean it. But I would not have a lab because the match would not be right for me.
What was my original point? Oh, right. I speak for the Beagles!
Michelle
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*grin* my Cardigan Corgi Jake is crashed out under my desk right now. He is the laziest Cardi you will ever find. Right now he is giving me the "oh my aching paws" look, since I roadworked him today. My other one Ciara loves the exercise and can't get enough of it.
So even in breeds there are always individuals as well.
AJ
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
Why Cardigans over Pembrokes? What was the deciding factor(s)?
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
huskies are cool. VERY aloof, but also very reliable and independent (intelligent).
fallow
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*should be going to bed. They actually have very different personalities, deriving from their different purposes. The Pembroke was used much more as a droving dog, for herding cattle to market along country roads. It also has a slightly Spitzier personality because it does have Spitz blood that came in from the Vikings. They tend to have more drive and can be slightly nippy about the heels.
The Cardigan was the all purpose farm dog. It would chase the cows out in the morning and bring them back in the evening, but relax most of the day under a nice shade tree, or hanging out at the barn. They can be nippy but not generally as much. Overall they are the more laid back dog. IMO. They are very, very people aware though, and my two would rather be where I am than anywhere else. They are probably slightly harder to obedience train than the pemb, but I suspect it is because they are smarter and ask more questions. I only train mine once or twice a week when I'm concentrating on obedience, any more than that and they get bored and turn off. They are extremely responsive even to the differences in the way I clear my throat, though.
IMO Cardigans are the healthier breed, you don't tend to get as many back problems and paralysis as you see in Pembs though it happens occasionally. This is partially due to the two breeds having entirely different rear constructions, but also to the fact that the Pembs remain far superior in popularity because of the Queen of England and therefore are overbred and have more puppy mill issues.
AJ
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote:huskies are cool. VERY aloof, but also very reliable and independent (intelligent).
fallow
I like them too but for a lot of people the independant breeds are considered less intelligent. A lot of times people associate intelligence with obedience.
There was a book written called The Intelligence of Dogs by a man named Coren. Interesting book but he had the obedience bias. All the dogs he listed as intelligent were the breeds that tended to want to please people more or had been bred to work well with humans.
Herding breeds, for the most part, are considered intelligent because they were bred to work with people to herd. (There are exceptions)
Other types of dogs are also intelligent but in a different way. You tell a stereotypical Sheltie or Border Collie (or Corgi?) with some training to sit, there is a good chance the dog will sit. You say it to a Husky that has seen a couple obedience classes to sit and he probably understands you but has to think if he feels like sitting or not.
So in short, I agree they are smart but some people might not agree with US.
[ August 11, 2004, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: MichelleEly ]
Posted by jacama (Member # 6291) on :
Space Opera- I've had beagles, mutts, coyotes, corgis and shepherds. We've always gotten puppies; the oldest we adopted was a 3 mos old from the SPCA.
Some mutts were sweet and even tempered. One was very social, another was easy to train and a good companion, others were good farm dogs. The beagles and the coyotes were friggin crazy and nipped at animals, adults and kids alike. The corgis were very good lap dogs, though they tended to bond with a single person and be a bit too needy/clingy. The german shepherds were easily trained and great companions, but didn't greet strangers warmly (this and shedding are the only gripe we had with the shepherds).
We were without a dog for a couple of years, and when we decided to get one, we decided we'd either get a lab or a golden.
We chose the lab over a golden. The personalities are VERY similar and the lab doesn't shed as much as the golden.
AJ is right, and it HAS taken a couple of years for him to calm down, but he's a joy and people are constantly asking what he is and what breeder we used.
My personal bias is that meeting the pup's parents is as important as knowing the pup's medical history. And much more important than a pedigree. We met the mom and dad and fell in love with both. In fact, the younger kids wanted to bring the mom home instead of the pup!
I know several people who have gotten animals from rescue societies. Each and every one of these animals has some kind of personality disorder that my friends have either decided to live with or they've returned the animal. Sadly, there seems to be a reason that these pure breds have landed in the hands of rescuers.
I had, and have seen, more luck with pups from the SPCA. Though, most of the dogs seem to have had a fear of hosed water- I assume from the washing down of the kennels.
Good luck!
/dos pesos
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
MichelleElly,
do people actually own corgis? I kinda figured it was a fictious breed.
fallow
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote: I know several people who have gotten animals from rescue societies. Each and every one of these animals has some kind of personality disorder that my friends have either decided to live with or they've returned the animal. Sadly, there seems to be a reason that these pure breds have landed in the hands of rescuers.
I have to stand by what I stated earlier - that it was possibly a mismatch to begin with.
I am not going to say that there are dogs that do not have behavioral issues but if a dog is deemed suitable to be placed up for adoption at a shelter that screens for temperament there is a really chance that the problem does not lie with the dog.
What happens is people choose dogs impulsively, or like it is a beauty contest, or simple because they do not really understand the dog but mean well and then the dog comes back and is blamed for being true to form.
When I worked at the shelter and we adopted out a Jack Russell there was no point in saying goodbye - it was more until we meet again. You can tell people that JRTs are hyper and crazy and destructive if bored but until you live with it you do not know. What is cute at 3pm at the shelter is not cute at 3am in your house. Dog comes back for being hyper but it is just being a JRT. Place this same dog in a home that has had the breed before and 98% there is not going to be an issue. Michelle
[ August 11, 2004, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: MichelleEly ]
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote: MichelleElly,
do people actually own corgis? I kinda figured it was a fictious breed.
fallow
So rumor has it. Maybe AJ just photoshopped the pics of her dogs though. Michelle
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I LOVE dogs...pretty much all breeds, although i am not really fond of the really small breeds. If I want something that small and annoying, I'll get a cat.....
Most people think of Border Collies when they think of the medium herding dogs, and they are a great dog to have if you are active. Any herding dog tends to be fairly intelligent and friendly, and most love being very active.
If you have that much land you might even consider buying several dogs. It would be a different experience form owning a single dog, and if you have your heart set on puppies then there usually isn't a problem getting the two to get along. Most problems occur when you have a dog that has been the only dog for a while and then you try to bring in another one. It is very hit or miss....some dogs adjust, some don't. If you get two from the start you raise them together and there is rarely a problem.
That way it won't feel like you are trying to replace Licorice with a dog, it will seem to be a different thing entirely.
You have never had more fun with a dog than if you have 2 Goldens, Labs, or Springers chase after the same stick....even more so if it is into water!
One of my dogs, Mickey, would get so worked up fetching in water that I had to force her out of the water before she drowned herself!
And twice I had to hop into a rowboat and chase her down to the middle of the lake because she decided to chase ducks or geese across the lake. The ducks were laughing at her, and just kept swimming away...but she was game. A little too game.... I had to jump into the water and carry her to shore once...lol..I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have made it back without me.... That was one of the first times we went up north with her....after that we knew better, and had to keep a close watch on her...but she was my favorite of all of them, I think.
Kwea
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Psst... They aren't officially called Jack Russell Terriers anymore. AKC renamed the breed last year to "Parson Russell Terrier" I'm curious how long it will take for the new name to be used more than JRT. Or if it ever will.
I just have to second, and emphasize, the comment that even within each (and every) breed there are wide variations. We had a Black Lab as a pet, who we have always said was born old. She would fetch a ball, but she had less drive than a couch potato (and was a one-person dog for the most part). I've also see field labs that are so obsessive, they put most Border Collies to shame. This is one of those traits that can be somewhat difficult to identify as a puppy if their herritage is unknown (at least for some herding breeds, litters are broken into three types depending on activity level: cool, warm, hot.) The puppy's parents are normally the best indicators (and of course this isn't as much of a problem with older dogs).
I think you should probably follow your first instinct on what type of dog to get. The more you ask people, the more and more and more options you'll have. All three breeds you've mentioned considering would make good pets, be kind with kids, and so on.
And fallow, people do own Corgis. I think I'll own one sometime in the future (I'm hooked on herding breeds for life I suspect). Though I'm more fond of the Pembroke Welsh Corgis, but only because the ones I've met seemed more my style than the Cardigans.
And random question, what is it about my posts that's so forgetable or just non-obtrusive? I mentioned rescue groups about 8 posts into the thread, and no one noticed until much later when someone else brought it up? I've really got to start being cross and belligerent I suppose.
Feyd Baron, DoC
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote: Psst... They aren't officially called Jack Russell Terriers anymore. AKC renamed the breed last year to "Parson Russell Terrier" I'm curious how long it will take for the new name to be used more than JRT. Or if it ever will.
I am saying not. Just got people to know what a JRT is and I aint a changin' I am old and set in my ways.
Just like German Shepherd are supposed to be called GSDs - German Shepherd Dogs. I will fully take the blame if people think I am talking about a guy in Lederhosen. Michelle
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Feyd, everything you said I agreed with. There wasn't any controversy like was created later on.
AJ
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Most all of our dogs have been "drop-offs". You know -- that is when people from the city decide they don't like their dog anymore - -and they drive around in the country, find a barren place, open the door and boot the dog out, and then drive home.
Really. Happens constantly.
Hairy came to us in a huge thunderstorm as a three-legged dog (he has the fourth leg, but doesn't use it -- xrays show it was crushed some time ago). Mickey was a cast-off German Shepherd cross. Taco was a dog that a friend of ours asked us to "watch" for a week while they went on vacation -- then they never came back for him (called and said they had decided they didn't want him -- were going to go get a different dog). My Pyr wasn't a drop-off. But his family was moving and couldn't take him with them, so he becames ours, much to my delight.
Over the years we have had many, many dogs, but most have just "shown up" one day after someone drove off and left them. It is so sad. Sometimes you will see these people -- a truck will go by really fast, and a few seconds later you see this dog running down the road after it.... Trying to catch up to his (former) owner who is now leaving him behind..
Farmgirl
Posted by Lead (Member # 918) on :
Most of the important points have been covered. I'm just going to pop my head in and make a few random statements, in no particular order.
AJ and I may always disagree about Pembrokes v. Cardigans. Every Pembroke I've met has been charming, and incredibly personable. I've only met a handful of Cardis over the years, and each of them was quite snappy. I suspect I will reserve my own opinions of the two breeds until I someday get a chance to meet AJ's dogs in person. (*G* Whadaya say? Perhaps an all-breed show in a year or two?) The point is, though, that such traits (especially in a breed that doesn't see the HUGE HUGE numbers that, say, Labs, Goldens, or Cockers see) can be regionally different. I know that all the Cardigans I met (in Utah) were snappish, but it wasn't an extremely popular breed, and they may well have all come from the same lines.
Labradors often outgrow that puppyhood crazy stage at about 2 years apparently. My personal experience was that it tended to last until about age 4. Again, could have been regional. :-) But once they're past that stage, they are really cool dogs. (Hell, they're really cool during that phase, so long as you're really well prepared for it, and know how to deal with it.)
Dogs, both mixed-breed and purebred, land in shelters (and independant rescue organizations) for an ungodly number of reasons, very few having to do with the actual animals themselves. Very few dogs are truly "bad" in such a manner that the appropriate home, training, and structure cannot help that same animal blossom into a fine companion. The purebreds you see in shelters are very often the result of an impulse purchase. Someone hears about a coworker with a litter, or someone down the street, or sees an ad in the paper, or heaven forbid, walks into a pet store with their credit card. But cute little puppies grow up to be real dogs, with real needs and behaviors, and it's a lot easier to toss aside a "thing" you bought on impulse than the companion you spent much time researching about before purchasing. (I'm personally going for a record for the most time spent preparing to get a dog before actually getting it, but I'm down to approximately one more year before my next dog comes into my home.) The dog in the shelter for "barking too much" probably needs some training, structure, and more time spent with its people. Heh...you should see the dog I'm currently "fostering" that was surrendered to rescue because he was no longer wanted, after eight years.
It can't be stressed enough to do some homework about breeds before getting a dog, because they all vary so much. The cool thing, of course, is that there's a "right one" for nearly everyone who desires the companionship of a good dog. Know what TYPE of dog you want, before you start looking at specific breeds. Learning a bit about the types (scent houngs, herding dogs, flock guardian dogs, northern/spitz, sight hounds, gun dogs, terriers) helps a LOT in narrowing down just which breed might be best for you. I, for example, could never ever live with a terrier. I love to play with them, visit them, but live with them in my home? *SHUDDER* Not a chance.
Michelle, nice to meet you. One of the few things that ranks up there in my mind with the companionship of a good dog is the companionship of good dog people. Catch AJ or myself sometime privately.
~~~Lead
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Lead anytime you want to come to the Chicago International Kennel Club shows or the giant Christmas cluster you have a place to crash
Since I do have gazillions of friends down in Texas due to where I went to school I'm sure we will get a chance to meet one of these days...
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Also I have never owned a Pembroke, so I'm not as good at contrasting as some people who own both breeds. I don't dislike pembs at all, I'll probably own one eventually. There is a site somewhere that I will have to dig out, that describes the reactions of Cardis vs Pembs in different situations and is a pretty good generalization. It was written by a person who has both.
Things like if you walk up to a stranger the Pemb will bound forward and go "pet me, pet me!", while the Cardi will hold back, look at you and go "do you approve of this?" before walking forward to be dignifiedly petted.
I personally know of one cardi female who is a bit nippy. However she has been worked on cattle and has immense amounts of herding drive. If you tell her to knock it off she'll look up at you innocently. But that is also due partly to her natural herding style. My own dog has Jake, definitely herding instinct with livestock but uses completely different techniques (I can't remember the technical herding terms at the moment.)
AJ
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
And it's really true that people get the dogs they do for frivolous reasons. Sometimes it is just someone giving away free puppies or whatever was cute in a movie.
For the record, most breeds in movies are HARD to own. Dalmatians are really tough to have, unless you are prepared, and they are not great with children (There are exceptions). JRTs, as we all ready discussed are hyperactive and nuts. (I love them though)
Hey, and I am not immune. The first dog I wanted to get as an adult was a cocker spaniel because of Lady and the Tramp. ER, no research there. As soon as I did some I knew it was not right and quickly settled on a Sheltie and ended up getting the most perfect dog EVER. Working at the shelter I met lots of cockers and not one was like Lady - not one talked!
Not everybody can spend years at an animal shelter but everyone can and should do research. Internet and library, talking to people that are walking dogs, going to the shelter, taking in a dog show...And asking people the worst quality of the breeds too - if they tell you "Nothing" they are lying! Michelle
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I think we might have decided on a golden. We know from research and talking to all of you that they are wonderful dogs, and Mr. Opera had a golden as a child. He recalls her being highly trainable and very loving - she just passed away about 3 years ago. I'd love to get more than one dog, but I'm not certain we have the room for two right now. Also, there are always the financial considerations. We are used to paying for food, heartworm meds., and shots for a small dog, so the jump to a large one will be a change.
If we decide to go with a breeder, what are some questions to ask? We got lucky with Licorice because he came from a breeder that our long-time vet highly respected. Here are some questions I've come up with so far:
1. How long have you been in business? 2. Why did you go into this business? 3. How many litters do you breed per year? 4. Can we meet at least one of the parents? 5. How do you ensure that all of your puppies go to good homes? 6. In your opinion, what are the best/worst traits of goldens? 7. Will you be available for follow-up questions once we take a pup home?
Thanks again!
space opera
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I love the way you keep changing the title of this thread Space Opera! I've never seen anybody use thread titles in quite that way before. One change to reflect a change in the subject, but never a progression like that. Very cool!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
8. Tell me, in single words, only the good things that come to mind about...your mother?
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote: I think we might have decided on a golden. We know from research and talking to all of you that they are wonderful dogs, and Mr. Opera had a golden as a child. He recalls her being highly trainable and very loving - she just passed away about 3 years ago. I'd love to get more than one dog, but I'm not certain we have the room for two right now. Also, there are always the financial considerations. We are used to paying for food, heartworm meds., and shots for a small dog, so the jump to a large one will be a change.
If we decide to go with a breeder, what are some questions to ask? We got lucky with Licorice because he came from a breeder that our long-time vet highly respected. Here are some questions I've come up with so far:
1. How long have you been in business? 2. Why did you go into this business? 3. How many litters do you breed per year? 4. Can we meet at least one of the parents? 5. How do you ensure that all of your puppies go to good homes? 6. In your opinion, what are the best/worst traits of goldens? 7. Will you be available for follow-up questions once we take a pup home?
The first thing is skip anyone that considers it a business. If this is their bread and butter guaranteed they are breeding too much and for the wrong reasons. Reputable breeders are seeking the betterment of their breed and laugh when anyone asks them are they making money. After all the testing and vet care, etc they should not be turning much, if any profit.
I would ask the breeder what qualities they breed for. Every breeder should know this. And their goals should somewhat match up with yours. It had better be more than pretty dog being bred to pretty dog.
I would ask how many times they breed a year and how they select who their dogs are bred to. I would want to hear a whole lot of understanding of genetics and that a lot of thought goes into these choices. And I would not like to hear that any dog is bred every heat.
Preferably I would want the breeder to show in conformation and/or obedience. Why? Because this breeder is more likely to understand their breed and to have a firm grasp of what they are breeding for.
I would not really trust a breeder that had a lot of puppies available at once. Means they are breeding too damned much. A good breeder often has a waiting list because they are not overbreeding and because they are seeking quality.
I would want the parent dogs to be certified as having sound hips (through the OFA which I believe stand for the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and would want the parent dogs to be around 2 years old because at 2 hips can really be fairly assessed. I also would like to see proof of good to excellent hips for several generations.
I am not sure if Goldens have eye issues and that is something you should look into and if that is an issue that should be look into.
I would find out what is the breed standard for Goldens. A breed standard is the blueprint of the ideal dog of that breed. Not every dog in every litter is going to match the standard and for a pet home it does not matter but if they understand the standard they understand the breed and you are more likely to get a dog that is true to the breed. Which is what you want, right? An intelligent dog that is loving and good with kids.
Any reputable breeder will ALWAYS take the dog back, always. It is ethical and if the person says otherwise they really are not responsible. I would also ask them if they were active with or had donated money to their local rescue.
Also, please give Golden Rescue a call. Even if they do not have puppies available they can point you to ethical breeders that work with them.
In short your questions are really good with the exception of the word "business." Michelle
[ August 11, 2004, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: MichelleEly ]
Posted by Lead (Member # 918) on :
If you'll contact me off-forum, I can put you in touch with a REALLY good Golden breeder on the east coast. She is extremely active in the breed, and may be able to A) point you to a good breeder in your area, but definitely B) give you a rundown of what all you need to know about the breed in order to ask the right questions with a breeder. I've known her online for many years now, and think extremely highly of her, and her efforts.
I do know that there are some cancer concerns with the breed, and yes, even some temperament issues these days. (The plight of the popular breeds, I'm afriad.) So it's important to know what to look for and ask about.
~~~Lead
[ August 11, 2004, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Lead ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
If you trust the Vet you have been going to, you might want to involve him/her as well. They probrbly would know who has good breeding stock, and might even be able to vouch for the parents of the litter.
Kwea
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote: If you trust the Vet you have been going to, you might want to involve him/her as well. They probrbly would know who has good breeding stock, and might even be able to vouch for the parents of the litter.
Kwea
I would not rule out that idea but a lot of vets really do not concern themselves with those issues. Michelle
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well, I have know a few vets who knew who to stay away form when looking....and they were always right about that, too.
A lot won't steer people to specific breeders because they might lose parients that way, but they do know what is going on, and if there is a problem sometimes they are the first to know.
But they often know about rescue operations, and breeders associations, and are alway glad to refer a person to those.
At least IMO, and in my experience.
Kwea
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
quote: But cute little puppies grow up to be real dogs, with real needs and behaviors, and it's a lot easier to toss aside a "thing" you bought on impulse than the companion you spent much time researching about before purchasing
Yep. In fact, our Seven (lab/chow mix), whom we got from a shelter, was dumped off there overnight. It would have been nice if whoever abandoned her had left a note of some kind saying why. (Evidently whoever it was didn't have the guts to surrender the dog in person.)
I suspect it was either (1) an issue of the owner not knowing how to housebreak a dog, since she wasn't quite housebroken when we got her, or (2) a chewing issue. Both issues are generally easy to correct if you know how and have a little patience, and it's a shame that people throw away perfectly nice dogs over them.
Well, their loss is my gain. *hugs Seven*
Posted by Lead (Member # 918) on :
AJ, do you really think you'd have room in your house for myself and even one of my dogs? *G*
As for Texas, well, until I buy my own place, I'm afraid I can't offer much in the way of lodging, since we're pretty cramped in here. You'd have to sleep on the floor! But I can, and would HAPPILY, take you for food. BBQ, or Mexican, your choice. We have a cluster of shows in Ft. Worth every March and September, with two all-breed shows, and a number of specialties. I'm pretty sure that I've seen Corgis of one type or the other having a specialty here at some point in recent years. I tend to see a fair number of them at the all-breed shows as well. And, of course, we'll be having our National specialty here in...hrmm...2006 I think. Wheee! Yeah, I think it's 2006 and 2007. We're back up north again next year, at Purina Farm (which has GOT to beat the hell out of Lima, Ohio).
~~~Lead
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I brought home Licorice's ashes today. I'm very sad, but I'm glad that he's home.
space opera
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
My mom's best friend Sue had a family dog for 15 years, a black lab/collie mix named Princess. She was great, and when she died Sue had her creamated. My mom made a gravestone out of quickcrete, and put beads and stained glass into a pattern holding her name and a heart, and a bone.
Sue bawled like a baby (in a good way) when she saw it in July once my mom gave it to her. She plans on burying her in her favorite spot under the tree at the house on the lake where they spent summers, and she is putting the gravestone there so they will always have a physical representation of their well loved pet.
Kwea
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
What a lovely thing to do. Right now Licorice's ashes are in a very pretty heart-shaped wooden urn. The kids are not ready to scatter/bury them, and that's okay. I'm thinking that once we buy several acres (so we know we'll be there for a looooong time) we might bury the urn in the yard somewhere and plant a special bush or tree over it. That way everytime we see its beauty we'll think of him.
space opera
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Lead I have 4 Bernese Mtn Dogs living next door, and my house is bigger than theirs.
I think my house could hold an Irish Wolfhound or two for a couple days!
AJ
Posted by Lead (Member # 918) on :
Hehee...AJ, that would rock. DogFest!
I'll bet you get to Tx before I get up there though. Two clusters a year, surely one of those will bring you down. *G*
Regarding ashes, I have Bogart's in a nice wooden box, sitting on the bookshelf right now. When I get my own property, I'll bury them in the garden, planting a rose bush or tree over them. I'll do the same with future dogs as well.
~~~Lead
Posted by MichelleEly (Member # 6737) on :
quote: I brought home Licorice's ashes today. I'm very sad, but I'm glad that he's home.
space opera
I have Paddington's ashes in a wooden box with a Sheltie painted on it and his collar sits on top of it.
It was rough when he passed. My husband thought he might have had a stroke, I was working at the shelter, and begged for our clinic to see him. The vet was going to treat him but my husband and I just looked at each other and knew we were not doing him any favors as he was starting to lose his dignity, and he was a very dignified dog. So I had a friend of mine at the shelter put him to sleep.
The shelter could have arranged for his cremation, but it is so chaotic there, so I took my lunch hour to take him to the vet by our house. And thenhad to go back to work at the shelter. It was tough because so much of the job was seeing animals go to sleep or be in pain.
I think I will always go with cremation because as much as you always think you will stay at a place you just never know.
Michelle
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
God point, but Sue and Tom are retiring next year up at that cottage. i also think they are putting the ashes into a metal container before burying them so if they do move they can take her and her gravestone with them.
A little weird for me, but I can undersatnd where they are coming from.
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It is just that all too often I have seen animals suffer because people blame the dogs for traits that are common to their breed. It's not the Beagles fault that it acts like a Beagle. It was up to the humans to make an informed decision. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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