Hatrack River Forum: Turn the question on it's head -- Do nice guys actually LIKE n

This is topic Turn the question on it's head -- Do nice guys actually LIKE n in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

Do nice guys actually LIKE nice girls with ambition, skills and intelligence that read science fiction?

(I had to . . . [Big Grin]

)

[ August 13, 2004, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: Shan ]

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

I dunno Shan. Depends on what type of "skills" you're talking about. [Razz]

Tis late, get some sleep!

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

Aren't you supposed to be working? [Wink]

Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :

B.

Nice girls don't have ambition.

fallow

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

Darn, caught again. [Big Grin]

Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :

shan [Kiss]

fallow

Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :

How can this question be asked? I think the crux of the matter is not what "nice guys" like or do, it's exactly what a "nice guy" is. The other thread still hasn't hammered it out.

I, for one, believe it to be a complete lie, and that no such thing exists. Man, woman, child it doesn't matter, they will always do something dumb. It's just the way it works. No one is perfect. Someone will always make a mistake.

If anything, the definition of a "nice" person is someone who will be able to forgive anything that is done to them. Even then, it's not completely possible. A "nice" person would be friends with his worst enemy.

Which leads me back to this idea of "nice" guys. I believe that most "nice" guys wouldn't be able to take their own girlfriends cheating on them. If they are unable to forgive "that jerk of a boyfriend who cheated on you," then they won't be able to forgive someone close to them for doing the same thing. I'm talking about a girl who maybe is a little drunk or is lonely for whatever reason (maybe the guy's away for a really long time) and just once kisses another man, or maybe even sleeps with them, but immediately regrets the decision. She has guts enough to come clean about it, because she hopes that she can be forgiven because she's dating this "nice guy." She never once again for the rest of her life does anything like this, and she takes it to her grave as a painful memory that she winces at every once and a while or maybe cries herself to sleep about.

He of course, so overwhelmed by the whole thing that he can never forgive her, either constantly brings it up as ammunition in an argument or breaks up with her immediately. Wow, what a nice guy.

[ August 13, 2004, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: Primal Curve ]

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

I'm more of a T&A person myself. Don't have much love for the N.

(sorry, I'm really really tired)

Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :

Its hard to classify people like this. I seem to get called a nice guy quite a bit. And my gf... well you guys know Raia, she's one of the kindest, nicest, smartest, sweetest people I know [Smile]

So some nice girls seemingly like nice guys and some nice guys like nice girls. So the blanket false isn't true. I doubt the blanket true is true either. Its just like anything else, it varies from person to person [Razz]

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :

Nice girls hide their ambition, skills and intelligence.

Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :

Especially if they're smarter than you.

Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :

I've never found a nice girl smarter than me !

::ponders, scratches head::

Oh wait, that proves your point...

Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :

It's all about THAT ONE THING. There's got to be at least a hint that there's a possibility of THAT ONE THING. Nice girls may never figure out how to drop such hints, and nice guys may never figure out how to read the hints.

Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :

Why do so many guys not want the smartest, most capable, brilliant, accomplished and powerful person they can possibly find to make into their other half? When picking teams, why pass over the most outstanding stars? Why??????? I've never fathomed this.

Is the concept so strange? The difference between a teammember and a competitor?

I wish I could figure this out. It's been bothering me for a while, can you tell? [Smile]

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Because they're insecure? That was exactly what I wanted, Anne Kate, and I got it in spades! Yay me!

Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :

No difference, AK. Some men are competitive with anything that qualifies, I think.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

It this thread's title calling to mind that incredibly sad song about the lowercase n from Sesame Street for anybody else? I was always so glad when the second lowercase n landed.

quote:
In a cold and far-off place
There was a lower-case N.
Lonely and cold, she would stare off into space
And it was known that she would cry now and then.

Lower-case N, standing on a hill.
The wind is very still, for the lower-case eh en...

And then one day a rocketship
Came racing from the sky.
It landed on the hill and there opened up a door
And somethin' started comin' outside...

A lower-case N!
(She's not lonely anymo-o-re)
They are standing on the hill
(There are two that stand for su-u-ure)
The wind is very still
For the lower-case eh-ens!

That one acutally used to choke me up when I was a kid.

[ August 13, 2004, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :

AK, that's what my parents said too. I was talking about relationships with the psychologist, who said that I'd be better off looking for guys who aren't smart in exactly the same way I am (i.e. nerds) because we'd be too likely to compete. The odd thing is that my parents are both engineers, and they get along better than any couple I have ever seen. So I mentioned the competition thing to them, and after thinking about it, they said that engineers are practical enough that they want to marry someone who will be a good partner and aren't worried about competing with their spouse.

Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :

Are these women who are supposedly so smart and awesome and capable really so? I seriously doubt there are so many women that are getting passed up even though they're SO AMAZING. [Roll Eyes]

In my experience, "smart girls" are typically uninteresting homebodies who would rather stay inside on a summer's day than go out to the park or hang out with friends. They also, typically, have a few insecurities themselves that make them difficult to deal with and indecisive (something that men do find unattractive).

A lot of women who aren't homebodies who do go out and have fun and are better at making a decision and sticking with it are considered to be ditzes. They could be super-smart and mop the floor in academics, scholorship and IQ testing with the girl who stays up late reading crappy SF novels, but because she also hangs out with her friends and goes shopping, she's immediately just another dumb blonde.

In short, I don't buy this whole "Why do 'nice guys' pass up smart girls" crap.

There's another reason, but I'm not sure if hatrack would like it.

Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :

Hatrack would love it... [Wink]

As for the question that's bugging everyone in this particular thread: yeah, nice boys actually like nice girls. And no, Primal Curve, the fact that a girl "goes shopping" with her friends doesn't make her less a nice girl ! Two of the girls I fell for were that type of 'nice girls'. If you want a summary description of them, they were very intelligent, beautiful, sensitive AND social ! Why that shouldn't make them "nice girls", i have no idea... Oh, they didn't read SF, but that wasn't an issue. [Big Grin]

PC, I think you assume the attribute "nice" is somehow connected to "shy" and "stay at home" and "no friends". I see it more like "decent", "carring", "sensitive". While you will probably find many of those who fit my description among those who fit what I think is your description, it's not always the case.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

>> Do nice guys actually LIKE nice girls with ambition, skills and intelligence that read science fiction? <<

Well... drop the 'nice' part, and yes. I tend more toward women who lean to the anti-nice side of things.

[Smile]

Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :

Noemon! I remember that song now! I wouldn't have remembered it if you hadn't brought it up--it was back in the recesses of my memory.

Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :

Hmmm, it seems that guys don't particularly like "nice girls". And some of the girls don't like "nice guys" even though guys hear plenty of girls say they do. I guess I haven't heard many guys proclaim, "I like nice girls!" They are more likely to proclaim, "I like naughty girls!"

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I hate the word nice.

Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :

Beverly: May be that's because modernity brought something called the "anti-hero cult". [Dont Know]

Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :

Men are dumb, I love being a man.

Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :

ergo... men are also fools. [Big Grin]

Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :

Just as we discussed in the earlier thread - how do you define a "nice" girl?

I'll give a tenative yes until the category is more clearly defined.

-Trevor

Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :

Alex - yes and no. It depends on the man and how insecure or secure he happens to be in how he quantifies his manhood.

If he prides himself as a bread winner, he might feel threatened by a woman who is more successful than he is.

Sexual appetite and practices will vary from man to man - as evidenced by questions like "do you prefer women more experienced or less?" and so on.

-Trevor

Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :

quote:
Why do so many guys not want the smartest, most capable, brilliant, accomplished and powerful person they can possibly find to make into their other half?

I'd have no problem with this kind of woman, too bad their all out of my league.

quote:
"smart girls" are typically uninteresting homebodies who would rather stay inside on a summer's day than go out to the park or hang out with friends.

Staying in can be fun too [Wink]

quote:
Hmmm, it seems that guys don't particularly like "nice girls".

I like nice girls, and to quote Kyrie, "You should go for the nice girls who are normally overlooked, they have just as many hormones and less opportunities to use them." I wish I could take credit for realizing that on my own. [Wall Bash]

Stryker

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

*Naughtily contemplates opening another can of worms . . .*

Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :

do nice guys actually lichen?

[Dont Know]

um... err.. mosst dew?

[Wall Bash]

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

*happily threads the wriggling worm on the hook and casts*

Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :

I think I'll just ditto Trevor with a tentative yes.

And, to answer ak: I would absolutely love to have a nice woman who can out-code me (programming), out-game me (Starcraft, Allegiance, whatever), find something I missed in Babylon 5 (not an easy task)... y'know, just generally outclass me in something I enjoy. Such abilities lead to increased respect from me, and the more respect I have for someone, the more I enjoy that person's company.

[ August 14, 2004, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: Bekenn ]

Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :

bekenn,

uh? hmm...

glad you found something of interest.

fallow

Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :

That's right... I'm a geek, and I'm proud of it!

Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :

My "other" point was meaner, and I'm still not sure if I should bring it up.

[ August 14, 2004, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: Primal Curve ]

Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :

Bekenn...that was fun.

[Big Grin]

Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :

Don't be such a [Monkeys]

tease, PC.

[ August 14, 2004, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: ae ]

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :

*proceeds to drown the wriggling worm*

*thinks about the ladder theory*

*thinks about altered states*

*laughs*

Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :

TGIS!

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :

It's not that men don't want strong, intelligent, etc. women, but, again, that women aren't into being better than other people. Women usually downplay being better than someone else. Being intelligent, strong, etc. means being better, on many levels, than others. Many women have a problem with this and so they hide what they are, not because men don't like it, most do, but because of their own self image and because of what other women will think.