I don't know if either of you will read this, but if you do, I sincerely hope that you will come back. I don't know if I had anything to do with your leaving, but I would honestly rather leave myself than have to know that something I did caused Hatrack to lose one of its greatest regulars and most up-and-coming newcomers. I don't know whether you are gone for good or what your reasons are; perhaps it has nothing to do with me. But, Sara, you are one of the pillars on which our little community rests and it will be a much worse place without you. Mister Boy, we got off on the wrong foot, but I hold no ill will toward you, and was sincerely hoping to get to know you better. If there is anything I can say or do to bring you back, you have but to ask and I will do it.
Sincerely,
Mike
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Gah!
CT! Come back!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
We love you and are your tribe, CT. We respect any decision you make and are always, always here for you if you are ever ready to come back. Please know how incredibly loved you are, and take care, dear.
katharina
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
Oh no! I missed much in my extended absense. CT, don't go! Although it is a shallow concern, who else will remain to trip out on Risperdal, you know the drug that makes the groundhogs in the backyard look frickin' huge!
Whatever happened, please remember that this community supports you, just as you support it. As was said, you are one of the pillars.
If you leave, this will be the saddest moment in Hatrack for me personally. I didn't even get the chance to introduce myself to your husband.
That biblical verse about gnashing of the teeth and wailing makes so much more sense now...
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
CT, I didn't knew you as much as many knew, but I'd also plead you to come back again to Hatrack.
Please.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Oh CT, please don't leave us! We are family, dear one! That means we sometimes hurt each other very deeply but always forgive, always learn how to do better, always stay connected. Sara, please don't go. You're a part of us. We love you. Just having your recent posts gone has already been an enormous loss to hatrack.
Please, please come back. Tell us what we need to do to make things right. Whatever it is, it matters far less than our having you here with us sharing your joy, and your love, and your wisdom and incredible knowledge. Whatever it is, we will do our very best to fix it. Please give us that chance.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
If any of my posts offended Mister Boy, I would like to apologize as well. I really enjoyed reading your criticisms of America Mister Boy. I know I come across as being defensive at times, but I hope you will overlook that and continue to share your valuable perspective with Hatrack.
*sigh*
Maybe the Olympics season is not the best time for debunking nationalistic mythologies. Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Ah, is Boy the one who wrote the Canadian's perspective essay? It looks like the thread was deleted -- a damn shame, I enjoyed reading the essay, and I was looking forward to having the time to read the responses to it.
Dude, if it means anything, I know Saxon would never intentionally offend you -- at least, not beyond the realm of good discussion. Forgive him, as he seems to have forgiven you? I'm really starting to wish I'd saved some of those arguments between me and Jeff, from back in the day, to show newbs how spoiled they are nowadays. No hazing, no streaking, no fights to the death... Kids these days ain't got no respect no more...
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
If I anything I posted was in any way contributory I am immensely sorry. I hope you both come back. With your absence Hatrack is considerably lessened.
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
I'll even leave lurker status to plead for your return... Sara you are so seriously beloved here, I truly hope your absence isn't permanent.
Posted by Lost Ashes (Member # 6745) on :
I appreciated Mr. Boy and have long been a fan of CT. Things are looking a lil gloomy now. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
*tackle hugs CT*
You're here! You do love us!
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Sara, thank you so much for putting my mind at ease. We all love you and want only the best for you. I hope that you find what you seek in your time away, and we will all be waiting with open arms when you decide the time is right to come back.
Take care, and good journey.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
CT, this isn't going to help your post count one bit.
Be well! See you someday, I hope!
Bob
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
*hugs and loves the CT*
Come back soon Sara! Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I feel a hell of alot better now, even though I will still miss you.
I hope you get done whatever you need done, and that all is well with you.
Good luck, and I'll see you around...I hope!
Kwea
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
CT,
I have this medical problem. My heart races. I'm overcome by feelings of dread followed by a sense of impending doom mixed with morbid fear. Then, I tend towards paranoia. I can feel a definite lump in my throat, and I cry for no reason.
Oh wait, it's because you aren't going to be around as much. Who's going to read my liberal diatribes and pat me on the back for them?
Seriously, though, I hope your time away is helpful and that you come back as soon as you are able.
Until then, be well and be happy. Mister boy is clearly a wonderful person and despite his being a Canadian, he's alright in my book.
He might want to tone down that nationalist fervor of his though. It's unbecoming.
Posted by mister boy (Member # 6761) on :
quote: Mister Boy, we got off on the wrong foot, but I hold no ill will toward you, and was sincerely hoping to get to know you better. If there is anything I can say or do to bring you back, you have but to ask and I will do it.
No ill will from me either, man. I want to emphasize that I regret treating you as I did during our discussion. Some red buttons were getting pressed by both of us I suspect, without either fully realizing it. My poor social skills only made things worse.
There are two things I'd like to emphasize. First, in the essay when I made reference to Canadians as "ever the good guys" and other similiar phrases, these are truly a way many Canadians make fun of ourselves, and is not an implied slam against you or other Americans.
This is an aspect of Canuk culture that is not well understood by people. Our humor tends to be run through with self-deprecation. "I'm from Canada, eh? Always the nice guys, eh? We're going to invade Iceland ... as soon as we can borrow a submarine, eh?" And I sometimes insert this humor into writing or talks that I giving when things start getting serious to cut the tension, without giving it much thought. In this case, rather than a crack against the US, it was a playful poke back at myself and my country. I'll be careful on this point when working cross-culturally in the future.
Second, when I referred to "pissing matches" and wanting to avoid them, I did have a good end in mind (even though my style of saying it was pretty piss-poor and led to things getting out of hand). My sense of the Canada-US discussion and related global topics is that people can too easily get caught up in side debates about each others motivations or level of sincerity, or in side debates about which country is being acknowledged enough for its strengths. Neither of these debates go anywhere--they're just 'pissing matches'. That's all I meant, although I expressed it about as badly as one could possibly do.
It was exactly the kind of exchange I was wanting to avoid. Rather, I had hoped to find a way that people with different national interests could talk about future possibilies for mutual understanding between our countries, instead of me or anyone else getting stuck on which land is better or who is more sincere.
I need rethink the best way to enter into and frame dialogs about such critical issues. A hiatus is needed for me to rethink the style and content of my writing efforts in this regard. I have learned that a public, yet anonymous, forum is not how I am best able to discuss my thinking and related writing, at least for the moment.
I am currently rewriting the essay, and am taking pains to remove parts that might be taken as unduly offensive by American readers while retaining the legitimate critical concerns. If you or anyone else wishes to continue discussing my essay, or related issues, feel free to contact me by email directly: david.brown@fammed.wisc.edu.
I hope this helps to clear the air between us, S75.
Needless to say, CT makes her own decisions for her own reasons. I would never dream of telling her what to do here, or elsewhere. I wanted to make that clear, since there has been some discussion about my pressuring her into leaving. We were both surprised by this, as it in no way reflects our relationship.
Be well.
[ August 21, 2004, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: mister boy ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I would have said I was interested, but now I think I'll pass.
Good to see you back, even if it isn't for good.
Best of luck.
Kwea
Posted by mister boy (Member # 6761) on :
quote: would have like to discuss his views with him, but he deleted it when he got in a huff ... I even thought that some of his views were very insightful, even if I didn't agree with them. I would have liked to share my views with him as an American who doesn't think his homeland is perfect, and shared my views on Canada with him as well....but now it will never happen, all because he got offended when people disagreed with his rather harsh views on the USA.
"KWEA" - I would be more than happy to discuss the essay with you. Please contact me at: david.brown@fammed.wisc.edu when you are ready. Also, I should clarify that I deleted the essay and my other posts for my own sense of having a fresh start, no huff involved. I'm heartened that people keep talking about the essay. If you would like a copy of the revised version, please let me know.
quote:now CT is gone probably because he made it a loyalty issue....them or me.
Needless to say, as it reads, this is the most offensive thing said in a few days around here. But I'm sure you really didn't mean it, and that it was just written in the heat of the moment. If you do have serious reasons to stand by this claim, then as a gentleman you should say what those reasons are, and let the community you are speaking through decide for itself. Otherwise, it can be assumed that you are withdrawing the comment. Thank you.
Regards, David Brown
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Hi to you. Can I see the essay with the offensive bits still in and the one with them taken out? Criticism is useful. My email address is ( )chromesthesia at adelphia dot net. (what a funny way to write my email address)
Posted by mister boy (Member # 6761) on :
quote:Can I see the essay with the offensive bits still in and the one with them taken out?
Done. You're on my mailing list.
For others who might interested, please contact me through my email address (above), since I won't be checking back here. Thanks. -DB-
Posted by mister boy (Member # 6761) on :
Ooops ... one more thing, for those who prefer real time discussion, I also maintain a second email address only for use on MSN Messager (dbblues@hotmail.com) ... feel free to grab me online there as well. G'nite. -DB-
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I said if.
The if was wrong, and I do withdraw it, repeatedly.
I am a fair person, and I was being fair to you in that thread, IMO. Except for that part.
If that had been the way it happened, which we all know now it wasn't, I would still have been out of line.
I feel I had every right to comment on the essay, as it was posted, but personal issues you and your wife are none of my business one way or another. I am sorry I wrote that, as it isn't what I meant at all....just bad communication skill on my part all the way around. I was worried about how things appeared to have gone down, and crossed a line I didn't even see at that point.
I am sorry that I caused you and your wife any grief, particularily since that wasn't my intent.
I took what she said to me very personally, and am glad that she has written me since. I wish her, and you, nothing but the best...as I always did, although I should have made that much clearer.
I think I will let this die a bit before I ask for that essay, but providing I wouldn't be causing more pain or problems by doing so I will be interested in discussing this with you at a later date.
Welcome to Hatrack (again ), and I hope to see you around soon.
Kwea
[ August 22, 2004, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by mister boy (Member # 6761) on :
quote:I feel I had every right to comment on the essay, as it was posted,
Of course, and I am very eager to discuss it with you as soon you are ready. Please get in touch.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Done. I am looking forward to it.
Kwea
Posted by Vána (Member # 6593) on :
I don't really know what's going on, but, CT, I hope you come back eventually. And I especially hope that I'll get to see you again soon, and maybe even meet your husband. What I guess I mean is, even if you are permanantly leaving Hatrack, that you won't refuse to come to Tom and Christy's just because maybe a couple of other Hatrackers are there too. I've only gotten to know you a little, so far, but Dan and I both were really hoping we'd have more chances, you know?
I'm so sorry about all of this. I'm so sorry. Yet, I'm so glad that you can be there for Olivia. I know that that situation will be at least a little less painful for your being involved. You're such a good friend.
I'm so sorry.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
AAAAAHHHHH!!!! CT!!! Don't forget me, for I shall never, never, never forget you. I love you, girl.
I didn't see any of the storm and fury, so I have no idea what happened, but I know it must have been pretty nasty to affect you so deeply. Bad Hatrack! Bad! You don't make CT leave!
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
CT came back to explain that she's not gone, just withdrawing for a while to take a break and regroup.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
No worries, Jenny. What aspectre said.
I'm dealing with my own crap, not Hatrack crap, and the responsibility is mine alone.
I'll send you an email with a nice recipe I found that made me think of you. Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
I like the new you. Good to have you back... Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Speaking of having someone back - what have you been up to, Alucard?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What's the recipe? Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Anticipation, anticipation. It's making me late.
For some reason, your post made me think of a ketchup commercial. Weird.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
>whew<
Sara, I hope all your "stuff" works itself out in a healthy manner, and that you find much peace and joy.
And I'm eager to try out your recipe! Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Bad Hatrack! Bad!
I'm so borrowing this.
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
Not to steal from CT and MB, but Dag, this is how much time I've had recently! I just now saw your post and have been incredibly busy. I just happened to sneak my laptop into work and browse very quickly through a few posts.
All is well!
And yes, CT and MB are still in my thoughts. Godspeed.
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)chromesthesia at adelphia dot net. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
), and I hope to see you around soon.![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
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