I guess it was Ryuko who mentioned it first how it would be cool. Of course, it isn't feasible in the real world, but we can, at least imagine...
Living in a whole community of Hatrackers...what would it be like?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Scary.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Fun!
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Why not feasible?
My family has been basically successful for nearly 9 years, with the original premise of one person to stay home with the children, and two to work to support the family.
Of course there are always issues, but what marriage is perfect?
Lisa
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Scary...fun...those aren't mutually excludent, you know... Posted by Zevlag (Member # 1405) on :
Can we have it in New Zealand?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
No, they're upside down.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Upside down isn't so bad. Except it's sometimes hard to read that way.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Hey, darnit, that was my 100th post!!!! Too tired from work to notice it!
I ain't a newbie no more. Unless y'all are counting to a thousand before giving that distinction.
Posted by Vána (Member # 6593) on :
If someone were to start a Hatrack commune in New Zealand, I'd be there, no question. Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
DocCoyote that's right. You're not a n00b anymore. *cynical laugh*
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Phanto, you're a dear heart. I didn't realize it was that important to me.
Save the cynicism (sp?). Whenever, I say something terribly clever to my 7-year-old, he says, "Mom, that was sarcasm, wasn't it?" Bested by a small boy. I'm past being a cynic, and I'm tougher than I admit.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I didn't mean it as an insult; I meant it as a conspirtorial thing. Sorry.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
No, no, no, no!!!!! I took it exactly as intended!!! You've made my night for me!
Arggh!! misinterpreted again!
I hope everyone has the best night ever.
Lisa
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
I suck at graemlins, so I don't use 'em. Otherwise, it would be a winking thing. Windows XP doesn't love my computer, and I frequently crash when I try to do something clever. My posts would be more successful with the occasional emoticon.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote: Can we have it in New Zealand?
Yes! New Zealand Hatrack commune!
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Can we grow cannabis?
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
I don't know about the cannabis, not sure about the laws. Every job I've been involved with in the past 15 years has required a pre-employment drug screen, and some occasional random testing.
Who's going to earn the money to support this commune? I don't mind hard work, but I'm tired of 50-hour weeks.
Tell you what, I'll cook great meals and be amusing.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Somehow, I think Jatraqueros living in one place together would ruin it. Scattered perspectives is the magic of Hatrack.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Seems like we need the space to process the conversations, sometimes.
I always thought our family would talk about deep philosophical stuff way more than we do. Not that it's not part of our experience, just not that regular.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
So do you think that living apart is one of the things that make Hatrack great?
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Hmm. I could dig the commune thing. However, I would unfortunately have to be the freeloader of the bunch. Not because I don't have any marketable skills - I'm just lazy. I suppose I could lead a reading group discussion every once in awhile.
space opera
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Yup...but we still need the monies. Anyone up to the task? Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
What's the point of having a Comune with a bunch of moral-bound Mormons?
Their idea of free love is giving out hugs to strangers.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Yup! How can they give THAT!? They should charge for it! Then we would have the money we need! Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Just remember that in a commune we share everything.
Don't be surprised if you come in from the Kiwi harvest to find that the Mormons have thrown your babes on the barbee.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Nah, I'm not worried. We Chinese people will eat anything. Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
As someone who DOES live in a commune (btw, they're now called "intentional communities"), part of the fun for me coming to Hatrack is that y'all DON'T live in an intentional community.
(I like very much living in a community, and I'll probably happily live in one for the rest of my life... but I like being on Hatrack to find out what folks who DON'T live in a community are up to...)
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
I think I would enjoy living with other Jatraqueros. In particular, we have a lot of useful skills that would be great when pooled. There are many excellent teachers here--I would love to have my hypothetical children educated by the people at Hatrack. However, if we all lived together, wouldn't that be the death of Hatrack as we know it? I'm sure many conversations would still take place online, but some would probably be done face-to-face. We would lose the ability to bring new people into our group if the website were less interesting and vibrant. Also, would we make this commune exclusive somehow? Sometimes people are banned from this place, an option we wouldn't have if Hatrack were a more physical community.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I don't think it would work for Hatrack. I mean (and plaid can correct me if I'm wrong) -- aren't most communities like that based on some type of shared vision or belief? Like either they are a group of people that are of a like spiritual belief, or a like vision for the environment, or a like anti-government thing, or some such shared focus.
We have such a diverse group here, I'm not sure what our shared focus would be, and I could see religious differences maybe making for trouble, depending on how well we could respect each others' ideas in that arena.
Farmgirl
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I much prefer the idea of hatrack plural marriages. Same deal but based on a unit that has more natural cohesiveness than just a commune. Our house is gonna be sooooooooo much fun! <laughs>
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Hmmm... ak? Explain? Please?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
What I want to know is if AKA intends to consummate those marriages. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Fun until the mafia game begins.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It would sure make some things easier, though.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
I'll take care of the herb garden and watch the newborns.
Can someone give me a hand with the tweens & teens?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Tom, darling, you're godfather to the first set of quadruplets! Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Eduardo Sauron, read the last 2 pages of the original potry thread for more info. (Starts near the bottom of the 12th page, I guess.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I would be seriously squicked out, Anne Kate, if I didn't know how you felt about doing anything Meat. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I SERIOUSLY object to anymore tainting of the Orginal Potry thread with your virtual hedonism, aka.
Isn't anything sacred?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Ah, such things are always misunderstood. Tom remember the metaphor of the mountain lake in Songmaster?
Scott, I'm indeed a terrible hedonist! I want all the blessings and celestial joy I can grab, so I try to fulfill all of the commandments to the highest degree I can. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Sadly, no.
Posted by Zevlag (Member # 1405) on :
Songmaster. *cries* Gah. It's a good thing everyones away from the office for lunch. *regains control*
I love Songmaster, such a powerful book. So many things...
[ August 24, 2004, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Zevlag ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:psst, aka, that's known as 'fanatiscism.':
Careful, there.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Thanks, Scott, for worrying about me and watching out for me! You rock!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Worried? MOI?
Perish the thought. I'm Mr. Apathy, over here.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Don't worry, Joshy! You don't need that job anyway. Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:We would lose the ability to bring new people into our group if the website were less interesting and vibrant. Also, would we make this commune exclusive somehow? Sometimes people are banned from this place, an option we wouldn't have if Hatrack were a more physical community.
Well, we do get new visitors (and often new members) every month, plus guests and friends and family visiting... so things do stay fresh...
And, we do ban people here -- in our case, kicking them out -- usually it's newer folks who aren't working enough, but occasionally it's for behavior (like the loser who -- when his girlfriend broke up with him -- smashed some stuff and cut himself and said he'd kill himself if she broke up with him... he got kicked out within a day for that)
[ August 24, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: plaid ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:I don't think it would work for Hatrack. I mean (and plaid can correct me if I'm wrong) -- aren't most communities like that based on some type of shared vision or belief? Like either they are a group of people that are of a like spiritual belief, or a like vision for the environment, or a like anti-government thing, or some such shared focus.
Well, we would all share our for OSC's books, and that's a good start... Twin Oaks Community in Virginia (which East Wind -- where I'm at -- spun off of) was originally inspired by folks who'd read B.F. Skinner's Walden Two -- the Twin Oaks folks started improvising and adapting right away, and Twin Oaks has little to do with Walden Two any more (and nothing at all to do with Skinner's behaviorism) -- but the book did give them a good start...
If Hatrack folks DID want to start a community, they'd probably be pretty good at it -- the most important thing is to start with a good bunch of nice, smart, hard working community-minded folks. If you've got that, you can figure out the rest as you go along. Some sort of common goal/vision is useful -- in our case, it's stuff like sharing income, being cooperative and not having bosses, and living more lightly on the earth and out in the county.
I'd say that the best way to attract community minded folks would be to have an emphasis on community service -- have everyone put in some sort of community service every week, whether it's volunteering at a pet shelter, doing meals on wheels, working at a women's shelter, volunteering at the local library, doing Habitat for Humanity, or other good causes...
[ August 24, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: plaid ]
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Would we still talk to each other on Hatrack?
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
If Kamacon was any indication, afr, we would. Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
afr --- oh, of course we would! Shoot - at KamaCon we had like six people on laptops all in the same room posting on Hatrack to each other and others...
..just ask rivka
FG
edit: okay Tick types faster with fewer words..
[ August 24, 2004, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Does our towen beleive in capitol punishment?
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Yup. (to Farmgirl)
[ August 24, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: TheTick ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
...and corporal punishment for Tick.... FG
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Do I get to choose who administers? Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
The idea has always intrigued me. I don't mind the hard work aspect of it, but I'm selfish. I'd have to give up too many of my hobbies, though some would fit in the lifestyle. But others, like showing dogs wouldn't fit in at all, and I don't think the Monks of New Skete would take me in, the whole gender and religion problem...
AJ
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
The idea has always seemed to appeal to me as well. I love the idea of a community garden and more recently someone was talking to me about a dinner group they had where everyone cooked one meal a week. They really liked it because you knew you were getting home cooked meals every night and you only had to think of one meal to plan and it is much easier to plan for one big meal than seven small ones.
These things I could do without a commune, I know and aren't related to Hatrack in the least.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
You know AJ, for a split second I thought your first sentence was replying to my comment... Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Yeah I know there are varying degrees of structure of intentional communities (I've snooped around Plaid's website quite a bit)
Has to be well defined before you start it seems or you are in for a rough road. The mingling of finances would be the hardest kink to work out.
Something like a meal sharing group is kind of an intermediate, that I would be comfortable with (but steve would be the one doing the cooking!)
AJ
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I would live in a commune simply for the occasional babysitting. I imagine it would be super easy to exchange babysitting in a commune.
Posted by Khal Drogo (Member # 6786) on :
Really really messed up
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
What is, Drogo?
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yep, childcare is really flexible here, new moms and dads especially like it, it's easy to hand off a baby or toddler for a few hours while you go work or play or sleep or whatever... and some parents bring their kids along to their work (either so they're nearby, or for the kids to help if they're old enough)
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Wow, plaid - I had no idea you lived in such a community. I checked out your website and found it very interesting. Do you mind if I ask how you came to be there?
space opera
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I don't know if Drogo's remark was aimed at me---but all I meant was that it would be easy to set it up with another set of parents where we could drop off our kids for an evening and go out and catch a movie or something. And in turn they could drop off their kids with us for their own date night. I imagine in a commune it wouldn't take hours of arranging schedules just to do a simple exchange like that.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
*eyes glaze over*
We live at the commune, and we are Allll friends.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah LEADER!!!
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Has anyone heard of Cohousing? It's a less commune-y type of community that's becoming more popular in the US (it's more widespread in Europe and Japan, from what I've heard)... there's a couple ways to do it, groups either try to buy a bunch of houses near one another, or start fresh by designing a development...
Basic idea = folks still have separate jobs/incomes and their own separate living spaces... but they'll eat together a few times a week, and share some resources... so, a Cohousing group in Portland I knew that bought up a bunch of houses near one another would share meals a few times a week... and one yard would have a big vegetable garden for all to use... and each house would try to have a different communal resource for folks to use (photo lab, pottery studio, etc.)
Or, famously (in a Cohousing famous kind of way), Village Homes in Davis, California was developed so that it be more ecological (less driveways, more orchard and garden space)... the problem with most city (and suburban) apartments/houses being that most yards are too small to have trees AND lawns AND gardens AND playspace... but if you're thinking on a more group level, you can do stuff like minimize driveways and consolidate vegetable gardens and orchards and trees and playspaces...
It varies with the cohousing groups, but generally they set it up so that you either rent from the group, or buy from the group but agree to sell your house back to them if you leave.
[ August 24, 2004, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: plaid ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
AJ, I want one of those German shepherds.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I've been interested in some sort of cohousing idea. You'd be able to have a close-knit group of people who can rely on each other and a lot of amenities that no one can afford on their own. Plus, communal meals and babysitting built right in.
But it'd be hard to arrange, and the soon-to-be lawyer in me can think of a hundred different law suits arising out of such a setup.
Dagonee
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
space opera --
I've been here almost 9 years. I lived in a group household ("The Tofu Swamp" ) after college and liked that; later one of my friends from that house moved to East Wind, I heard about it from her and came out to visit one winter in between farming seasons out in Oregon. I had a great time, and so a year later I came back and have been here since.
I'm actually planning on shifting communities soon, to East Wind's older sibling in Virginia, Twin Oaks Community -- www.twinoaks.org -- for a bunch of reasons, but basically because it's a bit more organized and it's closer to my brother's family in NJ.
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
*laughs at Tom*
You must NEVER have heard her talk about marraige, and the sex aspects thereof!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I don't chat. If she talks about it anywhere else, I've missed it. But I'm rather skeptical that she intends to engage in ANYTHING meaty with the "spouses" involved.
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
Is that disappointment, Tom?
[ August 25, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: You'd be able to have a close-knit group of people who can rely on each other
I call that "church", Dag
FG
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
AK's been talking about the family, and I missed it?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I agree with dags that the cohousing thing sounds interesting . . . mayhaps I shall look into such after my degree is completed.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Thanks for the info., plaid. Very interesting!
space opera
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
A group of roomates and I decided we'd try to live the law of consecration (not exactly, but our best apporximation of it) for a while and it worked out really well. We'd all buy food and whatnot when we could, making sure that we got things for everybody. I worked a lot of hours and made more money, so I bought a lot of the food, and the roommate who didn't have a job did a lot of the cleaning and jobs around the house.
It worked until one of the girls got a boyfriend who told her that we were taking advantage of her and that she needed to be more assertive. She started having a cupboard of food we couldn't eat and would assign us chores to do on days she was gone. We finally decided we'd just go back to the standard fend-for-yourself model, which was really too bad. I think everyone had been a lot better off before. Any sort of commune is only as good as the dedication of the people involved.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yeah, a family is law of consecration by definition, I guess. Though I think it's good when each person also has some of their own resources they have absolute control over. If only for buying each other gifts!
Tom, you are squicking me out. I don't do public speculation about your family life and I'd count it a great courtesy if you would refrain from thinking about ours. But I will say that you seem to have totally misunderstood everything I've posted here on the subject of married relationships. The metaphor of the mountain lake is the key if you'd like to understand it. If you're just heckling why then
[ August 26, 2004, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Perhaps, rather than continuing to a cite a metaphor that I've said I no longer recall, you'd like to actually EXPLAIN what you mean rather than remaining cryptic?
I was deliberately squicking you out, BTW. As far as I'm concerned, there are actual consequences, rewards, and ramifications associated with actual marriage that are not, as far as I can tell, associated with the virtual marriages you're elated about. Unless I'm again missing some vital bit of information here, I think you're cheapening the word "marriage" by applying it to a form of dependent friendship.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I beg your pardon for cheapening your marriage, my dear Tom! I had no idea! Please extend my deepest apologies to Christy as well and tell me what I can do to make amends?
I have not said we are married. I have said we are engaged. I'm delighted with that and my fiances seem to be as well, and am so happy that my friends share my joy.
I am completely puzzled by your hostile reaction here, but if there's any way I can fix it I would love the chance to do that. Indeed my joy is full, and I would that the whole world were joyful as well. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Ah. It's not that I'm angry, Anne Kate. It's that I'm kind of sad.
Do you intend to actually marry either of the two lads? If not, then engagement is at best a bad pun.
I don't mean to sound hostile, but I worry sometimes about things it's not my business to worry about and lack the tact to avoid the subject altogether.
[ August 26, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
P.S. Slashy has given us his blessing. Shall I have him speak to you about it? I'm puzzled how it is that I could possibly have offended thee by getting engaged. Perhaps Slashy and you could understand each other better?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*Pops popcorn and sits back to watch*
*Wonders what it would be like if Aka and Tom were in the same commune*
AJ
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Hey, at least it would be an eventful commune! Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
*Leans over toward AJ*
*Pssst...you're crunching too loudly*
space opera
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
There are four now and of course I intend to marry them!
Main Entry: en·gage·ment Pronunciation: in-'gAj-m&nt, en- Function: noun 2 : a mutual promise or contract for a future marriage
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'll call you on that one, Anne Kate. I don't think you DO intend to marry them, at least not in the commonly-understood way. If I have that wrong, I wholeheartedly apologize.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I accept your apology and am delighted that we remain friends.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Hey, at least it would be an eventful commune!
Oh, believe me, there isn't any other kind. Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Elaborate, please.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Out of interest, WHEN do you intend to marry these four young bachelors? Who had you picked to officiate? Where were you going to hold the ceremony, and who's picking the dance music for the reception?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:pies Tom, aka, and all her virtual paramours:
Now I'm happy. And nothing else matters.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
We haven't set a date, and so of course no arrangements have yet been made. You and Christy shall certainly get an announcement when the time comes.
Mmmmmmm, pie! <licks> My favorite! Chocolate cream! Thanks, Scott!
[ August 26, 2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Law of consecration
Definition, please? I haven't heard of this, at least in a group home context.
quote:I call that "church", Dag
Touche! But it's a lot easier to depend on each other when you live within spittin' distance.
Dagonee
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Who proposed, and how was it done? Have you told the parents yet, or were you intending to elope?
You get my point, I hope. You're playacting, as far as I can tell; your "engagements" don't appear to be any more real than the promises twenty-somethings make to each other when they're single, the ones like "if we're still single at forty, we'll get married, right?"
This doesn't mean that you don't care a great deal for these kids, Anne Kate. But I think you're confusing maternal instinct with amor.
[ August 26, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Grisha originally came up with the idea of marrying me, he and another both together. I was the one who actually proposed to Grisha and Rahul together, in a chatroom where we were playing trivia with some of Rahul's friends, and they both accepted. Then later I proposed to Jorge and he accepted. After that I proposed to D and he refused, but we persisted and a few nights later when Grisha proposed to him again in hatrack chat he acquiesced.
I couldn't be happier. I'm seriously the luckiest girl in the supercluster. These four guys are the most awesome people I've ever known. I adore them all to little bitty pieces.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Eduardo -- well, when you've got 75 interesting and idealistic people living and working together and helping to raise each other's kids... there's lots of sparks...
So, if you're imagining Hatrack as a commune, imagine that Eddie, Balder, Tom, Thor, Ron Lambert, David Bowles, Sara, Ralphie, Slash, dkw, and Bob (thinking of some of the more prominent and/or colorful jatraqueros) are part of it and dealing with working together, raising their kids, doing long-term economic planning and making membership decisions... yep, it'd be interesting...
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
And I think we'll have a blissful idyllic family life filled with wonderful music and joy and fun. And yes, of course I actually intend to marry them. That's what is commonly meant by the word "engagement" (see definition posted earlier).
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'd like to think I'd generate my fair share of sparks.
Dagonee
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Law of Consecration-- as loosely defined in Mormon terminology, having all things (talents, materials, etc) held by the community for use within the community.
See OSC's essay here on Nauvoo.com for an interesting discussion on the subject.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
And I think what Anna (Toretha) was trying to say earlier, and perhaps what I intended to hint as well, is that one can't really speak with authority about another's feelings, instincts, true intentions, etc, so that it's really best overall just to accept what they say about those things.
I hope I've never done that to you, tried to tell you what you were feeling. I think I've mainly shared your joy, both at your marriage and at the advent of the wonderful Sophie.
[ August 26, 2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
(Reading ak's posts) oh yeah, and have them dating one another, and have a few people trying out polyamory (usually disastrously)...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I notice I'm not on that list. I almost never make the Prominent Hatrackers list. *thinks* It's probably because I'm not particularly nice online. <whoops> I am nicer in person.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I'm nicer in person, too, Kat, but it's probably because I get to hide behind my monitor and say how I really feel without having to see the hurt or annoyance on their faces. In person, I have to care what people think, so I act nicer.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
ack, this is the problem with coming up with a list in 10 seconds, I should've just said "imagine hatrackers a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i, and j [fill in the names yourself]"
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm nicer in person because it takes so much out of me (as it does out of other people) to be the same person to a hundred as to a few. It's a recipe for major burnout. The upside is that I don't leave: the downside is that not all of me is here.
---
And OSC's essay is one of the reasons I don't leave and am not as fond of the other forums as I am of this one. Favorite living author, there.
[ August 26, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*hands kat popcorn*
(relax, sit back, and watch the fun!)
AJ
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
And as I said, have you actually mentioned this to anyone's parents? Have you considered dates? Having met "Grisha," and having met other people who have recently been engaged, I must say that he acted like no other engaged person I've ever met.
<Note: paragraph removed at Anne Kate's request.>
These "marriages," to me, seem like one more step up from the Hug Thread; they're a way of PRETENDING to give people hugs without actually having to hug anyone, and a way of receiving hugs without having to actually work for them. Marriage is WORK. It is a solemn vow and a serious sharing of not just mind and "joy" and happiness but genuine responsibility. What you have here, as far as I can tell, is a bunch of good friendships.
Again, I don't want you to sell your good friendships short. But until "Grisha's" shown up on your doorstep with a ring and asked your family for your hand, this is no realer an engagement than a tamagotchi is a pet.
Here's the deal: you DON'T intend to marry all four of 'em, because it's not legal to do so and you haven't shown any sign of trying to get that changed. Nor does your church, to which you express devotion, permit polyandry. Nor do you intend, as far as I can tell, to outlive 'em all and marry them in series.
You're a very caring, very wonderful, and very loving person, Anne Kate. I don't like the thought of you sealing yourself off from an actual relationship by surrounding yourself with phantoms -- no matter how real the friendships are at the heart of those longings.
[ August 26, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
See, Kat, I used to feel that way about myself, but I realized something. It's not harder for me to be nice to a group of people, it's harder for me to assimilate to a group of people. If I'm dealing with one or two people, I can say whatever they want to hear without annoying anyone else. If I try that in a large group, someone will call my bluff.
/extreme honesty on my part
*grimace*
Oh, this isn't supposed to imply anything about you, it just got me thinking about myself.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*sits on the couch between AJ and PSI, bug-eyed*
---
(Since the original topic appears to be stalled...) Maybe it's because I'm a little less attentive in person? It's not hard to be nice in person because you only talk to one or two at a time, at the most. Online, I read everything, and think about everything, and I can't act on what I want to say because there isn't really an end to it, and it's not consequenceless for me. It takes too much out of me. I have to admit I'm here at Hatrack for entirely selfish reasons - I love it, and there's interaction with people here that I don't do in any other part of my life. But I can't be always who I am in person. I just can't. Since it isn't really fair to go Jekyll and Hyde, I usually don't begin.
[ August 26, 2004, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Katie, I took that list as being hatrackers who might be particularly thorny and or exciting to get along with. <laughs> Notice that it is headed by Baldar. I think it's a compliment that we were left off. At least I know I'm relieved to have been.
Tom, dear heart, I am deeply grateful for your concern. Indeed I know that I have ventured to give you advice in the past which was perhaps bordering on being this impertinent, motivated by a desire for your best happiness, as I know yours is for me. I will take your concerns into sincere consideration.
Grisha is, as are all four of my fiances, one of the awesomest people I know and I consider myself extremely lucky to be engaged to him. I don't convey such compliments lightly.
[ August 26, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
At this point in the conversation, it is requisite that I tell everyone that 'comune' is REALLY spelled with two m's.
:pulls up hood, laughs manaically:
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Oh, I dunno. I don't think you've ever given me advice that impertinent. Don't think I'm so Yankee that I don't know what "dear heart" means.
But I am very grateful that you've taken it so graciously, and wish you the best of luck with your choices.
[ August 26, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Kat: Well, maybe you are so unique and interesting and loved and elegant and sauve that you are the only one suited to be on any list that could reasonably include you. So -- you are on everyone's list -- it's just that you're the only one on that list. And the list doesn't come up in regular conversation here because, well, there's no controversy about it. It's just THE LIST.
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for OSC's books, and that's a good start... Twin Oaks Community in Virginia (which East Wind -- where I'm at -- spun off of) was originally inspired by folks who'd read B.F. Skinner's Walden Two -- the Twin Oaks folks started improvising and adapting right away, and Twin Oaks has little to do with Walden Two any more (and nothing at all to do with Skinner's behaviorism) -- but the book did give them a good start...![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)