quote:A large explosion occurred in the northern part of North Korea, sending a huge mushroom cloud into the air on an important anniversary of the communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday....
The Yonhap news agency, citing an unidentified diplomatic source in Seoul, said the explosion happened at 11 a.m. local time Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China. The blast in Kim Hyong Jik county left a crater big enough to be noticed by a satellite, the source said.
“We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5- to 4-kilometer (2.2 miles to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion,” the source said. Yonhap described the source as “reliable.”
Experts have speculated that North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, though there was no immediate indication that the reported explosion on Thursday was linked to Pyongyang’s efforts to develop nuclear weapons.
“It remains unclear whether it was a deliberately planned nuclear test or it was just an accident,” the source in Seoul told Yonhap. “But it doesn’t seem to be an ordinary explosion.”
***
The source said the explosion took place “not far” from a military base that holds North Korea’s Taepo-dong ballistic missiles. North Korea, which has a large missile arsenal and more than a million soldiers, is dotted with military installations.
The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, a source in Beijing told Yonhap....
[ September 12, 2004, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Phanto ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Dude... my brother's in Korea on an intelligence mission. Crap. And I was so glad he wasn't in harm's way in Iraq. Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) -- A large cloud that appeared over North Korea in satellite images several days ago was not the result of a nuclear explosion, according to a U.S. official.
South Korea's Yonhap news agency is reporting a huge explosion shook North Korea's northernmost province on Thursday producing a mushroom cloud over two miles (4 km) wide.
The blast coincided with the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sepember 9 when various military activities are staged.
The U.S. official said the cloud could be the result of a forest fire.
Still sounds odd.
AJ
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
A forest fire???
With a mushroom cloud, and a crater?
Now, I can certainly go along with the idea that it is not nuclear, but blaming the blast on a forest fire?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Nuclear trees.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
There are conventional bombs with as big as explosions as that of a tactical nuclear bomb and they do of course produce large mushroom clouds.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
"Dude... my brother's in Korea on an intelligence mission."
Don't worry Annie, I'm sure there's no immediate danger.
This is just North Korea's response to South Korea's nuclear testing. I'm sure nothing incredibly insane will happen as long as China and Japan are also monitoring the situation.
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
This is certainly not good news. I seem to doubt that this is somehow just a forest fire.
Posted by ReikoDemosthenes (Member # 6218) on :
a forest fire? that seems to be something of a denial type excuse...I mean, if they are going to suggest non-nuclear theories, they may as well suggest plausible non-nuclear theories...
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
If it were a nuclear test, why did they pick a spot close to the Chinese border?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Doesn't explain the crater at all, but it's still sketchy there is a crater.
It's interesting people seem more willing to believe Beijing than the U.S.
Dagonee
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
My guess would be a mishap during a test firing* of their newest and longest-range missile. An accidental explosion of the missile** upon the launch pad would create a large crater and a mushroom cloud by itself, and set nearby woods*** on fire (which Dagonee's link demonstrates can cause a mushroom cloud under the proper weather conditions).
* Threatening neighbors with displays of military capabilities seems to be de rigeur in NorthKorean anniversary celebrations.
** A rocket is just a bomb designed to vent its explosive potential in a desired direction at a slow&controlled rate. Loss of control over the burning process can lead to a large fast&uncontrolled explosion of the fuel&oxidizer.
*** We're used to seeing launches from well cleared areas. Given the paranoia of the NK regime, it is quite likely they launch from silos or gantries camouflaged by surrounding forest.
[ September 12, 2004, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
If the Korean penninsula disappears in a fireball, we'll know someone got nervous.
-Trevor
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
As nfl said, it might not be a nuke-- very large bombs can have the same effect (think MOAB). Now that I think about it, that doesn't make me any less worried.
--j_k
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Nuclear trees."
Maybe there are power places on earth which create a nuclear reaction. I read a novel based on that premise. It was interesting. "The Magic Circle," by Katherine Neville. I don't know if she had read about a theory, or if she made it up.
Not that it is the case in Korea, but have there ever been naturally occurring nuclear expolosions on earth? Could that happen? How? Why not?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Insofar as I am aware, there have not been any naturally occuring nuclear explosions in recent history, although this does not preclude the idea that one may have happened before humanity had the capability to understand what a nuclear explosion was.
-Trevor
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
hmmmmm....
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Nuclear trees made me laugh even if North Korea playing with nukes is a scary thought.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
I agree with aspectre (for the first time in history) but I wonder if the government would tell us if N. Korea HAD nukes? especially if they were planning on acting on it.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Probably not - it would be tipping our hand to let the North Koreans know just how much we do know and not how much they think we know.
Unless of course we wanted to bluff the North Koreans by releasing information so people would believe we naturally had more and the information released was of relatively minor consequence compared to the bigger picture.
-Trevor
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
An open air nuclear explosion which would produce a mushroom cloud releases so much radioactive isotopes into the atmosphere that they would be detected around the world in a matter of days. Many of those undisguisable byproducts of a fission bomb are so rare -- ie some fission-bomb isotopes aren't created in noticible amounts even in nuclear power plants -- that any spike in the amount detected would be a sure signature that a bomb had been exploded. Even an underground test in which the cavern formed by the explosion collapses to cause a surface crater would release a sufficient amount of isotopes to be detected in neighboring countries, depending on which way the winds blow. Any underground test -- even those which remain confined in a non-collapsing cavern -- is easily detected by earthquake monitoring equipment and creates a seismographic signature easily distinguishable from earthquakes/etc and non-nuclear underground explosions. It would not only take a conspiracy between many nations to hide a nuclear explosion, it would also take a conspiracy amongst many non-governmental academics and other scientists who engage earthquake and air-quality studies.
And it takes a lot of engineering to confine a fission reaction in a way that would produce an explosion, so a naturally-caused fission explosion isn't a realistic possibility.
Anyway, NorthKorea has announced that the crater is the result of blasting for construction of a hydroelectric power production project, and has invited the British in to inspect the site.
[ September 13, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Apparently the North Korean leadership isn't quite as reckless as I might have thought.
-Trevor
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
nuclear trees... Freeman Dyson, in one of his books, threw out the idea of breeding trees that could produce alcohol or some other fuel source... a reviewer pointed out the dangers of what would happen to the trees during a lightning storm...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
There's a pulp-fiction series called "The Destroyer" about a U.S. government martial-artist assasin. One of the old books was about trees that prodced light deisel fuel.
Dagonee
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Two words---Wood Alcohol.
How would you like to be the English assistant ambasador. The boss calls you in, "old boy, there seems to be a spot of trouble up north. Our hosts set off a big bang, and we want you to run up there and take a look. Now, honestly, we think it was one of there nukes, gone off by accident perhaps, but they say no. You know how far we can trust them. There probably won't be much radiation to worry about, but wear you lead jammies, just in case."
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Would have been funnier if you said "lead knickers."
I give it a 7.1.
Dagonee
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
I think the Kim Jung Ill was just having fun scaring the crap out of his neighbors. If anyone remembers Chernobyl the Soviets didn't admit that there was an accident, the Swedes picked up the radiation. There would be no way for the US government to hide that there was a nuclear explosion. Japan, South Korea, Russia, Austrailia, and others would have picked it up and announced it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I remember in one of Niven's Tales of Known Space stories there were trees that were bred by the ancients to grow up into gigantic solid-fuel boosters.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Not that much fun - he's agreed to allow third-party inspectors to review the incident site.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)