It improves your skills at logical thinking. It can be fun-depending on how well you're taught it. Yes, my friends, math is a good thing!
And thats not even talking about the joys of symbolic logic-which is arguably even more fun than math!
[ September 13, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Toretha ]
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
*calls the insane asylum*
I'm just spreading your message to the world Toretha... *cough*
-Jack Montague
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Math actually really can be fun, even though most of my math teachers tried their hardest to convince me otherwise.
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
Aw, c'mon, didn't you enjoy that moment when you first learned algebra, and understood it?
I've had my share of horrible math experiences-but it can be fun!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I love teaching it, but hated learning it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Actually, I am still waiting for that moment...you know, the one where I understand it...
And I am 34...
Kwea
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Bah! I hate math. As most people in high school do (in my experience). I happen to be exellent at it though.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
If you don't like math, but are good at it, you could make a fine engineer.
Especially if you enjoy mocking mathematicians. Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
What moment when I understood...I learned algebra but did I for one moment understand what I was doing? No.
I realize it is useful--to someone. I also realize that math is important. I mostly realize that I am not one of the chosen students that will ever ever have a passionate love for algebra.
Still, more power to those to whom it speaks to. We all need a language we can hold on to.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Today I asked my kids to remind me what the Fibonacci Sequence was (1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55 . . . ). I then boasted that I could add the first ten faster in my head than they could using calculators, and I did (143). Somebody suggested I had memorized the sum. I then challenged them to come up with the first two "seed numbers" themselves (eg: 3 & 4: 3, 4, 7, 11, 18, 29, 47, 76, 123, 199) and still added them faster (517). At this point, someone suggested that I had been adding them in my head as I wrote them on the board. So I asked a couple of students to write the first ten terms of a different Fibonacci-style sequence on the board while my back was to the board, while a student with a calculator was sent out of the room. When the students at the board were done, the one outside was invited back in . . . in time for me to tell him the sum of the numbers.
I then challenged the students to go home and figure out the trick.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
M.P.H.:
I'm actually hoping to become a computer engineer/programmer whne I get out of school. Go figure. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I can't even think in terms of math. I'm horrible at it... But, there are some interesting concepts that can be understood only in terms of math...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Ic, are you going to tell? I googled it, I tried to make my dad tell me (and he showed me some patterns, but my eyes started to cross . . .), I tried adding things and multiplying things . . .
I give! There's a reason I teach science, not math (and it's not that I don't like math -- I do)!
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
My kids have to wait until tomorrow . . .
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Lets see, I don't know the trick, but I bet I can come up with how to derive it pretty quickly.
*thinks* yep.
Here's a hint:
(a) + (b) + (a + b) + (2b + a) + (3b + 2a) . . .
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I really like your way of teaching, Icarus!
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Math is fun, and Icarus has a great way of teaching. That's the way a lot of my high school math was done ("Look, here's something cool! Now why do you suppose that would be?")
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
fugu gets a gold star!
And Teshi and Shigosei get A's!
[ September 14, 2004, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*mutters* That's what my dad was doing, fugu (only verbally, which is bad for visual ol' me).
Ok, now I can actually see it . . . *ponders*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*tries*
*tries something a bit different*
*throws calculator across room*
I hate series. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
HINT: Don't use a calculator.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I also figured it out. Funny story behind that. I worked it out, then forgot it! I sat for minutes trying to rememember what I had done!
Then I rememebered, tried it out again beginning with 5 and 6 and voila!
Now I can go to sleep happy.
Aaaand... I didn't use any formulas, just my own pure genius !
EDIT: But I used a calculator on the trick. It's 1:11. I'm tired. *sigh*
[ September 14, 2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I found something that works.
I'm not exactly sure why (I'm sure I could do the algebra if I wanted to), but I don't care!
*walks off laughing maniacally*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Icarus, I am going to hurt you. fugu, you too.
*insatiably curious, goes off to do the stupid algebra*
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Yeah, you grin. I'm supposed to be grading papers! Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Ok, I did the algebra.
I will dream of a's and b's by the hundred tonight.
And I hate you both.
. . . and that was cool, even if you did make me, like, learn something and stuff. Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
Learning how to prove e^(pi i) = -1 was pretty nifty using Taylor series.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
*pat pat*
Shhh . . .
I'm theoretically grading too.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And it's three hours earlier for me. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ic might be using the Launch-Explore-Summarize pattern that the evil math teachers taught us this summer.
After that class, I saw everything in terms of possible linear equations. It was just so darned geeky of me! I am a lit geek, darn it all!
Posted by Psycho Triad (Member # 3331) on :
Ken the Math Geek ~by Ken
One day, a person later to be known as Psychotriad was asked to take an advanced math placement test that the school district was test-running. Because of his aptitude on this test, Ken was allowed to be bussed to the Jr. High School in the morning every day for a more advanced math class, before taking a different bus back to the elementary school, where he was a 6th grader.
He was completely enthralled by this cool new math. In fact, He would even then try to teach it to his friends (poor Ken didn't have many friends, can you see why?)
Ken then continued through advanced math placements, taking highschool algebra in 7th grade, geometry in 8th, all the way up until he aced the AP Calculus exam as a junior.
To this day, he is still taking math courses, though varied more in topic and difficulty (Differential Equations vs. Math for Elementary Teachers). Ken is still enthralled with math. Go math geek, go.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Yeah, math is fun!
You know what's even more fun, is when you're doing math while sitting on a bed of nails, with venomous spiders crawling all around you.
*dreamily* I wanna do more!
*shakes head*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*blearily*
I'll have you know I got no grading done last night, and had to wake up early (4:30 bloody am) to get it done. *YAWN*
I'd blame y'all, but I did the same thing yesterday . . . Posted by Avadaru (Member # 3026) on :
Hey Anna Toretha, I just want you to know that you are, in fact, insane.
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
Good work, Jane. Full points for you!
(it took you this long to figure that out?)
That aside, look who's talking, ms. "Ohhh! chapstick! Can i eat it?....it tastes good"
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes, Anna Toretha is most delightfully insane .
BTW, kaioshin, what's even cooler is you can prove that using trigonometric identities, no series expansion involved.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Science!
Science again!
I said Science again!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Plus two!
Hundred!
I say, Telp, what's twelve by pies?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The Principle of Ones?
If it's not a Cold One, it's hardly a One at all...
Oh, that reminds me. I need to refinance my dream...
Just dial 1-555-55855-5555-SENIOR-MORGAGE-TODAY!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I've heard they'll help you get a leg up on the pile.
Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
You people scare me. Really. Truly.
I can honestly say that I HATE math. It was my worst subject in grade school, junior high, high school, and it continues to be my worst in college.
I struggle so much with it and this semster has been the worst.
The college I'm going to has been jerking me around so much with it. First I was signed up for what I thought would be my final math class and then a slight change in management at the college caused them to say, " Hey, we don't think your ready for this class. You should take this other class..." So I reluctenly took that class.
And then, thinking I was all set, I was ok with it. Of course, thats when they said, " No, your not ready for this one either. You should take this one! "
So..I said..ok. Fine. Whatever.
Of course, all through this, they refused to give me a tutor. They didn't believe me (or most likely didn't want to believe me) that I needed a tutor. Ok, it was basically money. They didn't want to pay for a tutor (aside: I have no way to pay for a tutor. So I depend on the college and grants to help with the money issues)
So, I'm in the new class. Its a math lab. That means you can take your time with the class..right?
Wrong. In fact, they changed the lab and turned it into a lecture class, with a teacher. ONE day a night. No tutor. And Hardly any time to take a test (because the teacher is talking through most of the class..).
Oh and no homework. So my grade depends on the tests.
Ugh! See why I hate math? Especially even more now? Not just because I don't understand it, but because I have so much trouble getting help with it.
People who understand math, don't seem to understand those of us who don't understand it.
I guess I'm like that with English. I love English and I don't understand why some people don't like it. Its so easy. Its nothing like math. Math you have to constantly work at. English. Well, if you know how to read and write, you can understand English. Its not that hard, imo.
Math, though, is a constant muscle that must be used.
Anyway, sorry for all the complaining. I realize I'm new here and coming into a thread about math and winning about it prob makes you all think I'm dumb. Maybe I am. lol.
I just have not had good math experiences. *sigh*
I doubt I'm going to pass this math class...or the next one..
DF2506 " Might get a tutor, I'm trying to, but these people seem determined to not let me get one. I really need to change colleges I think.."
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I'm frightened that I have to take Math for Elementary Teachers. Really. I'm scared.
Math is evil.
My husband is one course short of a degree in math. He scares me sometimes.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:People who understand math, don't seem to understand those of us who don't understand it.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Maybe some of the people who love math would be willing to help Belle and DF2506. Not in the “do your homework” sense, but by suggesting different ways of looking at concepts that you’re having trouble with.
<---- former high school math team captain. Still resents the fact that we had to be our own cheerleaders. And that most of our cheers were banned.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
See, I considered that. But I've tried to teach math before and all I managed to do was hurt feelings.
Those of us who have formed mental shortcuts in our brains have a really hard time getting back up on the main path, because the shortcuts have become deep ruts. It's hard for me to see things from the point of view [of someone] who doesn't look at math like I do.
Hopefully other people are better at it than me.
[ September 14, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Ic, doing out the algebra leaves me with a spot of arithmetic that is still not terribly fast. Faster than just adding all ten numbers in my head, but I doubt I could beat somebody with a calculator.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
EDIT: Never mind.
I think you haven't got it all yet.
Compare the seventh line of your algebraic work to your sum.
[ September 14, 2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I'd be happy to help anyone who struggles with undergraduate math or below, insofar as my schedule allows.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:Math, though, is a constant muscle that must be used.
Really, DF2506, both math and English are muscles that must constantly be used. You've just strengthened your English muscle more than your math muscle. When you say "Well, if you know how to read and write, you can understand English," it's not that far off with math, or any other subject, really. If you have the basic tools, you can understand the subject.
I tutored math and science in high school, and then in college I tutored for Upward Bound. I came to two basic conclusions about math: 1.) Anyone can learn math, and 2.) Most people who have trouble with math are more bogged down by the frustration than with technical challenges.
The majority of the students I worked with, say 80 to 90%, who had trouble with math had the view that math was something they were incapable of learning. That, in itself, was the biggest stumbling point. The problem is compounded by the fact that many of them had bad teachers, many of whom also didn't think that their students could learn math. It's pretty amazing the effect that a little encouragement and faith in their abilities had. I never had a single student that was, in the end, incapable of learning math.
Having said all that, schedule permitting, I'd be more than willing to give you what help I can.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:Compare the seventh line of your algebraic work to your sum.
Oh. Duh.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Belle, math made sense for the first time when i took my math methods course.
As for math teachers not understanding those who don;t understand math: I had teachers like that in high school, but I also had some p[atient teachers who DID understand. I really needed a math psychologist, because I think I truly had math phobia. I was so tense about it, nothing got in.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: I'm frightened that I have to take Math for Elementary Teachers. Really. I'm scared.
Belle, too bad you don't live out here -- my mom teaches both semesters (well, not at the same time) of the CSUN equivalent of that course. She spends at least an hour every night on the computer (which cuts into my Hatrack time, but everyone must sacrifice for the greater good ) answering student emails -- in addition to her regular office hours.
Like Ic, I am quite willing to help people who need help with math, time allowing. My only caveat is that while I consider myself to be a very good math tutor in person, the translation suffers a LOT online. No ability to sketch stuff, to start.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Yes, and gestures don't tend to come across well. Nor do funny voices.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
You know, I think I even could pull off sketches, again, if time allows.
Maybe rivka could do the explanations and I could draw and post relevant sketches.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Tutors never get any respect when there are teachers around... Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
*pat pat*
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"You know, I think I even could pull off sketches, again, if time allows."
And funny voices? I really need funny voices to learn math.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
That'll be rivka's department. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Cute dances?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Check out my avatar on GalacticCactus.com
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Sorry, I don't do funny voices.
I do, however, have several Looks that I give; among them The Look. (I also do skeptical, pleased, enthusiastic, encouraging, disbelieving, and several others. Combinations available by special order.)
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
*stretches from hibernation* Ahhh, it's been over a year and a half since I last posted. Miss anything?
My opinion on math is that, well I love it, worship it, but there is still something that really gives me the heebejeebes to think about.
Fi, I believe it is... Not Pi, Fi. I think it's sometimes called the golden ratio. It's everywhere, from yourself, to nature, to even the stock market.
But in algebra, yeah I'm good with algebra. I like it.
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
Well, excuse me for being a johnny-come-lately, but I have figured out at least one way that I could solve it way faster than with a calculator. I didn't use algebra, I just recognized a pattern, but if you are having trouble, the algebra may help. If algebra terrifies you, you can see the answer in the sums.
I tend to consider myself intuitively good at math. It's just something that my mind works its way around well. Given that, you'd figure I would have excelled in math in school. Well, you'd be dead wrong.
Early on, I was fairly indifferent to math, prefering science and reading. My parents had a massive library of National Geographics, and a perpetual subscription; I was introduced to them at a very young age, and was immediately enthralled. I have read them, later on along with Scientific American, on a regular basis since I was 4. I was born in december of '83, and I remeber reading about the Exxon Valdez spill, something which still chills me today. which would have been '88, if I'm not mistaken. Before Kindergarden, I could read a Nat Geo issue cover to cover. The topics in those pages were my subjects of choice, and boring things like addition and multiplication were boring. I never developed much interest until grade 5, when I was also labeled a 'gifted' child, thus categorizing me as a special needs child. Thanks to the backwards education system, this meant I spent alot of time in a classroom with other people with learning disabilies. The good in this was the special attention I got. They quickly realised that I was doing poorly in math because I wasn't being challenged at all. I was moved up to grade 6 math, and finished it in a few months.
The summer before grade 6, I moved and changed schools. Since bureaucrats need work, I had to retake the test to be designated gifted, and was reinitiated into the program. It was decided that I would do grade 6 math over again. You see, my grade 6 teacher had developed his own unique math program which he was very proud of. You could work at your own pace, and tests were not involved. Only endless excercises from the book. Once you finished grade 6 math, you could move on to grade 7, and even grade 8, which two of my gifted classmates did. I abhorred all the pointless repetive work his system entailed, and seeing as I had already done that years math, never completed grade 6 math. That same year, I outscored everyone in the city in a provincial math competition.
The next year, I was moved into grade 7 math anyways, as were the two students who had worked their way well into grade 8 math, much to their annoyance. Once again, the school made us do another test, this one was strictly math, to see where we stood. The questions progressed in difficulty from the mindlessly basic until they dealt with algebra, radicals and polynomials, much of which I could answer. I outscored everyone in the school on the test, and was given the option of doing math 8 concurrent with 7 along with 4 other students, all girls. At the end, we would take the final exam at the high school with the grade 8s. I accepted, and the next months were from hell. The teacher insisted on making us do the whole textbook. That meant every question. It was a terrible ammount of work, and I suffered through it, although sometimes, my work would not always be done in time, and often, I would not do my grade 7 math work, and my mark in that class slipped to a B. By the time the last month had come, the program was down to me and two people, the girls who had worked their way into grade 8 math a year previous. The program's teacher felt that I wasn't putting in the sufficent effort, despite my scores of 80 or above on all of the tests, and forced me to quit the program. I would have to do math 8 over again.
The next year, my teacher noticed that I was exceptionally good at math 8, and told me that I didn't have to do it, and instead gave me math 9, which I finished in time to get started on math 10. At the end of the year, I was informed that I would not be given credit for what I did, and was placed in math 9 for next year.
That next year, a new program was introduced whereby good math students were given the option of taking a condensed math 8/9 and 9/10 course where three years were squeezed into two.
That year, I lost all interest in math, and coasted on Bs, never reciving another A in math until college, when a good teacher and challenging material finally made me enjoy the subject again.
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
Vadon: you mean Phi, right?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The ratio of two adjacent numbers in the Fibonacci sequence approach the golden ration as the series goes up.
There was an article in Discover about why Fibonacci numbers show up so often in nature. Something to do with how the ratios result in fewer overlapping leaves, for instance.
Dagonee
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
Has anyone not figured out Ic's problem by now?
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Yes it was phi, thank you. I just hate phi, it occurs too often! It can't be natural.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Ooooh, I wanna see both those proofs of e^(pi*i)=-1.
I like Euclid's proof of the infinitude of the primes.
Can anyone remember how to prove that the square root of two isn't a rational number? Pythagoras did that one, I think.
Another one that's neat is the Cantor's diagonal proof that the number of points on a line is a bigger infinity (can't be put into one to one correspondence with) than the infinity of, say, the positive integers. That one is awesome.
What are some other cool proofs of stuff? I love knowing proofs.
Math is so awesome. The universe is actually composed of math. Matter is knots in the fields and fields are numbers in space. Laws of physics aren't based on anything mechanical or nuts-and-bolts about existence. As near as we can tell at this time, the laws of physics are just equations. Existence is equations. Math is all there is. To do math is to know the mind of God.
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